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Old 05-12-2012, 09:02 PM   #31
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Isn't Bell actually dead? Didn't they talk about him coming up with a way to "stay alive" and coming back by ringing a bell with a certain tone? I think they tried it and he inadvertently ended up in Olivia.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:24 PM   #32
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Isn't Bell actually dead? Didn't they talk about him coming up with a way to "stay alive" and coming back by ringing a bell with a certain tone? I think they tried it and he inadvertently ended up in Olivia.
I was thinking of that as Bell rang the bell to disappear, or whatever he did, this time. But Bell is/was alive in this version of the timeline. What you describe happened in the old timeline, pre-Peter's removal and restoration.
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Old 05-13-2012, 01:35 AM   #33
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I'm confused about the conversation with Broyles and the politician at the end.

In the alternate verse he was colonel. In our universe he's agent. But the politician gave "our" Broyles a promotion from colonel to general.

What was that about?
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:30 AM   #34
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Peter and Olivia should be punched in the face for naming their daughter Henrietta!
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:47 PM   #35
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The observers
Why?? September said “They” he never stated The “Other” are coming or The “Observers” are coming. Anyone could be coming. By stopping Bell Ark and Bell jumping back to the “Red” universe things could change in “Anber/Blue” universe.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:56 PM   #36
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I wasn't, to the extent that I almost wonder if that wasn't Bell's plan all along (he was practically screaming "All you have to do to foil me is kill Olivia"). But why?
You!! beat me to it, I thinking the same thing when Walter pick up the gun.
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:24 PM   #37
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Not really. It would have been more consistent if the injury HAD healed within a few seconds of her getting shot, but with the bullet still inside her brain, and the brain tissue healed around it, and then she regained consciousness. Removing the bullet would not have been necessary to start the healing process, especially the part that was visible to us at the front of her head. Of course, infection would be an issue if someone actually survived getting shot in the head like that, especially with that dirty old bullet. Who knows where Bell has put it!
But I think that's precisely why they had to get the bullet out quickly. If they had waited too long, her brain would have only partially healed with the bullet in there, and then they would have had to injure her more to get the bullet out. By then, there might not have been enough Cortexiphan left to regenerate her.

Getting the bullet out of there as fast as possible was so that her brain could heal completely, and it also took advantage of the hole that was already in her head to get the bullet out. And I'm sure Olivia was glad not to have regained any sort of consciousness before Walter decided to punch another hole in the back of her head!
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:44 PM   #38
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But I think that's precisely why they had to get the bullet out quickly. If they had waited too long, her brain would have only partially healed with the bullet in there, and then they would have had to injure her more to get the bullet out. By then, there might not have been enough Cortexiphan left to regenerate her.
No, that makes no sense, except as a TV trope. There is no reason the bullet's presence should pause the healing until the bullet is removed. If she can heal in 5 seconds (as appeared to be the case after the bullet was removed), then she should have healed 5 seconds after she was shot, with the bullet still in her brain. Granted, that is not an ideal situation, but that is what would be the most consistent thing to happen. The only reason it did not happen is because of the TV trope that a bullet must be removed ASAP and then all will be well.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:46 AM   #39
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No, that makes no sense, except as a TV trope. There is no reason the bullet's presence should pause the healing until the bullet is removed. If she can heal in 5 seconds (as appeared to be the case after the bullet was removed), then she should have healed 5 seconds after she was shot, with the bullet still in her brain. Granted, that is not an ideal situation, but that is what would be the most consistent thing to happen. The only reason it did not happen is because of the TV trope that a bullet must be removed ASAP and then all will be well.
I agree there was a plot device in play there, but I think the plot device was the quick healing post-bullet removal, not the lack of healing before. They did wait a decent amount of time after removing the bullet before Olivia finally woke up. But yeah, it technically wasn't as long as the time after she was shot to when Walter starting poking her in the head. So it would have made more sense for them to have waited a few minutes before she finally healed.

But I think they took dramatic license there because they didn't want to draw out the "will she or won't she" moment too long when most people probably would have figured she would have lived anyway. The tension was in seeing Peter and Walter hoping for her to return, not in us worrying about anything, so they drew things out just long enough for that.
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:00 AM   #40
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Walter should have shot Bell too.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:29 PM   #41
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Walter should have shot Bell too.
But that would have created another universe.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:51 PM   #42
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I'm confused about the conversation with Broyles and the politician at the end.

In the alternate verse he was colonel. In our universe he's agent. But the politician gave "our" Broyles a promotion from colonel to general.

What was that about?
I'm guessing that in this universe, he had the rank of Colonel, but his agency simply doesn't use that and called him "Agent."
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:53 PM   #43
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I'm guessing that in this universe, he had the rank of Colonel (...)
But in this universe, he works for the FBI. That's not a valid FBI rank...
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:53 PM   #44
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No, that makes no sense, except as a TV trope. There is no reason the bullet's presence should pause the healing until the bullet is removed. If she can heal in 5 seconds (as appeared to be the case after the bullet was removed), then she should have healed 5 seconds after she was shot, with the bullet still in her brain. Granted, that is not an ideal situation, but that is what would be the most consistent thing to happen. The only reason it did not happen is because of the TV trope that a bullet must be removed ASAP and then all will be well.
I think it's explained fairly easily by saying that the bullet killed her instantly, thus terminating her ability to regenerate because the bullet was lodged in that part of her brain where the healing began. By removing the bullet, the healing could then begin to take place, which not only healed the brain, but then had the effect of "reversing" her death.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:57 PM   #45
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But in this universe, he works for the FBI. That's not a valid FBI rank...
Maybe not in the "Blueverse." But what about in the "Amberverse?"


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Old 05-14-2012, 09:40 PM   #46
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I think it's explained fairly easily by saying that the bullet killed her instantly, thus terminating her ability to regenerate because the bullet was lodged in that part of her brain where the healing began. By removing the bullet, the healing could then begin to take place, which not only healed the brain, but then had the effect of "reversing" her death.
You may be able to write that easily, but it is certainly not an explanation. For that to work, it would require that the bullet stopped in the exact 0.1% of her brain volume that just happened to be magically responsible for accelerated healing (which makes no sense anyway, but leave that aside). I doubt even an Observer could have managed that shot.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:55 PM   #47
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The bullet in the brain preventing her from regenerating reminded me of the cheerleader in Heroes. There was a similar instance where she had a large wooden stake in her head and didn't revive and regenerate until it was removed.

Not an explanation, just a TV sci-fi precedent.
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:28 AM   #48
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The bullet in the brain preventing her from regenerating reminded me of the cheerleader in Heroes. There was a similar instance where she had a large wooden stake in her head and didn't revive and regenerate until it was removed.

Not an explanation, just a TV sci-fi precedent.
Yeah, the same thing occurred to me. The notion that it's the brain that does the regeneration work, and as long as something is interfering with the brain, it can't function.

Which is actually much more solid of a scientific explanation than Fringe usually graces us with...usually they just toss out some scientific jargon-words and hope that we don't notice those words have nothing to do with what they're explaining.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:26 AM   #49
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You may be able to write that easily, but it is certainly not an explanation. For that to work, it would require that the bullet stopped in the exact 0.1% of her brain volume that just happened to be magically responsible for accelerated healing (which makes no sense anyway, but leave that aside). I doubt even an Observer could have managed that shot.
It's TV, I couldn't care less if there was any "real" scientific explanation or not. There's no good scientific explanation for most of what goes on here, including the main plot point of traveling between universes. So, I just go with it. It's fun and entertaining and that's all I care about.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:46 AM   #50
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It's TV, I couldn't care less if there was any "real" scientific explanation or not. There's no good scientific explanation for most of what goes on here, including the main plot point of traveling between universes. So, I just go with it. It's fun and entertaining and that's all I care about.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:53 AM   #51
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+1
I will say, it's kind of fun watching people on here running through hoops trying to find a real explanation that would work, or, even better, getting upset because what happen just isn't "plausible" enough.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:08 PM   #52
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Not an explanation, just a TV sci-fi precedent.
They did something similar on Highlander in the early 90s... an immortal character drowned in the middle of the ocean, and every time he'd revive, he'd immediately drown and die again. It took him a hundred years or so to rescue himself.

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Old 05-15-2012, 08:11 PM   #53
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I bet Olivia will get great reception, now.
This.....in HD...
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:17 PM   #54
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I watched the last three episodes again last evening, and it seems rather obvious to me, and I apologize if this has been said already and I missed it, it seems obvious to me that they had intended Jones to be the bad guy the whole time. I'm sure they were in negotiations to get back Nemoy, but were not expecting that to happen. They wrote it in such a way that if it were to happen, then they could re-position Jones to be the primary agent for Nemoy, rather than the real evil mastermind himself. Since it happened, they filmed a quick, and too easy, death for Jones so Bell could step in as the real bad guy. That's why it seemed so abrupt, because it WAS. Before Bell's return, there was never any hint, that I can recall, of Jones answering to someone else.

Again, aploogies if this has been said before.
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:51 AM   #55
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I watched the last three episodes again last evening, and it seems rather obvious to me, and I apologize if this has been said already and I missed it, it seems obvious to me that they had intended Jones to be the bad guy the whole time. I'm sure they were in negotiations to get back Nemoy, but were not expecting that to happen. They wrote it in such a way that if it were to happen, then they could re-position Jones to be the primary agent for Nemoy, rather than the real evil mastermind himself. Since it happened, they filmed a quick, and too easy, death for Jones so Bell could step in as the real bad guy. That's why it seemed so abrupt, because it WAS. Before Bell's return, there was never any hint, that I can recall, of Jones answering to someone else.

Again, aploogies if this has been said before.
It's like 24. Catch the bad guy, OH another higher up bad guy. Catch that guy, oh ANOTHER higher up bad guy. Repeat
With no indication how high it goes to start.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:37 PM   #56
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It's like 24. Catch the bad guy, OH another higher up bad guy. Catch that guy, oh ANOTHER higher up bad guy. Repeat
With no indication how high it goes to start.
Like the famous "German Group"? :P

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Old 05-18-2012, 12:20 AM   #57
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It's like 24. Catch the bad guy, OH another higher up bad guy. Catch that guy, oh ANOTHER higher up bad guy. Repeat
With no indication how high it goes to start.
It's turtles.... err bad guys all the way up.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:01 PM   #58
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Entertainment Weekly writers Darren Franich and Jeff Jensen (aka Doc Jensen) did a special episode of their "Entertainment Geekly" podcast last week devoted to the Fringe finale and this season as a whole. Great critical thinking on how the season turned out, what worked and what didn't. (Note: this is from a creative point of view, not the scientific one that at times arises in these threads.) I thought this made for excellent listening.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/e...y/id523188133#
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:32 PM   #59
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all the discussion about the scientific validity of Olivia's regeneration is great, but am I the only confused about the fact Olivia even has the ability to regenerate? I know I wasn't paying full attention during every single episode but I feel like that's a big thing to miss-- Walter shooting her in the head then saying "we have to get the bullet out so she can regenerate (or whatever he said) was the first time in the entire series that I ever heard of Olivia even having that ability. Unless I just forgot?

Anyway, I thought it was an ok finale. I think September was clearly talking about The Observers because otherwise that entire episode from a few weeks ago has no point... the whole point of it was to set up what the story would be if they came back for season five, and in that episode they mention that they fully take over I believe either in 2012 or in 2016, and since the show is only back for 13 final episodes, it wouldn't make sense for "they" to be some other big villain.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:42 PM   #60
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all the discussion about the scientific validity of Olivia's regeneration is great, but am I the only confused about the fact Olivia even has the ability to regenerate? I know I wasn't paying full attention during every single episode but I feel like that's a big thing to miss-- Walter shooting her in the head then saying "we have to get the bullet out so she can regenerate (or whatever he said) was the first time in the entire series that I ever heard of Olivia even having that ability. Unless I just forgot?
It was brought up in the previous episode ("Brave New World, Part One"). Blatantly stolen from the Fringepedia:
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a small lemon cake, laced with pig brain DNA, was treated with the drug and responded with a 'regenerative' chemical and physical reaction. The cake self-sealed after the forensic experiment left it with a large incision across its' surface.
Fringe Episode 4.21 Scene - Yellow Cake

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