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Old 05-11-2012, 12:25 PM   #1
moyekj
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Dish DVR Adds Ad-Zapper

Interesting development from Dish for automatic ad-skipping:
http://www.lightreading.com/document...ailynewsletter
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:30 PM   #2
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most recorded primetime HD programs shown on ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC when viewed the day after airing
Why so many restrictions?
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:41 PM   #3
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Why so many restrictions?
So they don't get sued out of existence as happened to ReplayTV?
Next day availability only would be fine with me as I rarely watch shows the same day they are recorded anyway.
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:46 PM   #4
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Why so many restrictions?
Think legal bribes, lobbying and lawyers from Cable and Broadcasters.

Now, think of Michael's kiss to Faredo.
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Old 05-11-2012, 04:12 PM   #5
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I think it is also limited to locals because it uses that prime time anytime feature.
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Old 05-11-2012, 04:31 PM   #6
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And they charge a lot for the privilege, $99 up front and an extra monthly charge over a normal DVR. (A normal DVR has no up front cost). Personally i would not pay that much as I like the exercise for my finger skipping the comerciales.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:01 PM   #7
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And they charge a lot for the privilege, $99 up front and an extra monthly charge over a normal DVR. (A normal DVR has no up front cost). Personally i would not pay that much as I like the exercise for my finger skipping the comerciales.


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Old 05-11-2012, 05:23 PM   #8
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So they don't get sued out of existence as happened to ReplayTV?
Next day availability only would be fine with me as I rarely watch shows the same day they are recorded anyway.
This feature makes sense to me. If the next day viewing isn't counted in the ratings (are DVRs even counted?), then one shouldn't have to be subjected to commercials that are out of date. Commercials were meant to be seen the day they air. The next day, they have "expired".

I would be all for TiVo creating an automatic commercial skip feature and would be fine with the next day limitation. However, I don't think it will ever happen because they wouldn't want to upset (possible future) advertisers. Plus I don't think CableLabs would like it either.

According to TiVoMargret,

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Just for you, tivocommunity.com!
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Our engineers REALLY appreciate the passion you have for TiVo. Some of them closely monitor the activity on this board...
Maybe we can persuade the engineers to make a secret backdoor code to automatically skip commercials (one can hope).
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:01 PM   #9
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Seem to me that if I were ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX I would cut the feed to Dish until Dish drop this, but I donít run a TV network.

@ Steve614, what were you quoteing from TiVoMargret?.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:14 PM   #10
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How do satellite companies actually provide "locals" anyway?

VHF/UHF antenna on the same mast as the dish?

Network feeds over the satellite that aren't really the local affiliates, but just the network stuff which is sent to them?

Uplinks of feeds from the locals, with the local news and weather and commercials and everything, sent back down from the satellite?
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:35 PM   #11
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Seem to me that if I were ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX I would cut the feed to Dish until Dish drop this, but I don’t run a TV network.

@ Steve614, what were you quoteing from TiVoMargret?.
Why? They most likely are on board with the plan.

They already broadcast most of their shows commercial free via on-demand and Hulu. They also are available on Amazon.

For all we know, Dish might even be paying for the feature.


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How do satellite companies actually provide "locals" anyway?

VHF/UHF antenna on the same mast as the dish?

Network feeds over the satellite that aren't really the local affiliates, but just the network stuff which is sent to them?

Uplinks of feeds from the locals, with the local news and weather and commercials and everything, sent back down from the satellite?
You're confusing 'locals' with over the air. All of the companies provide local channels, and yes they really are the local affiliates.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:42 PM   #12
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@ Steve614, what were you quoteing from TiVoMargret?.
It was an excerpt from TiVoMargret's OP here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...45#post9087245
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:13 PM   #13
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This feature makes sense to me. If the next day viewing isn't counted in the ratings (are DVRs even counted?), then one shouldn't have to be subjected to commercials that are out of date.
I don't have a citation at the moment, but nowadays I believe they count viewing up to a week later.. Maybe that is a "separate" ratings (there definitely are e.g. overnight ratings and weekly ratings, that can and do differ).
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:47 AM   #14
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Well, another reason for the restrictions could be quite simple - it isn't automated! Someone at Dish is probably cuing up and marking commercials and sending the data to the box (hence the extra fees). It would take around a day for a few people to do this for the prime-time shows on all the networks.

if it was automated, there's a good chance the networks would simply find ways to trick it so it would ad-skip through important parts, not ad skip the ads, etc., enough to make it a useless feature.

And networks only because they are "must carry" stations and don't get paid for it. The other cable channels, Dish pays for the privilege of offering them, and if this was happening, those channels will probably up the rate Dish has to pay out. But since Dish is obligated to carry the networks (in exchange, the networks are paid nothing for carriage), they're free to do whatever they want.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:36 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
This feature makes sense to me. If the next day viewing isn't counted in the ratings (are DVRs even counted?), then one shouldn't have to be subjected to commercials that are out of date. Commercials were meant to be seen the day they air. The next day, they have "expired".

............
Next day viewing is counted in the ratings. They count all the way out to a week later for DVR viewing. They have Live+same day, Live+1 day out to Live+7 day viewing that is counted in the final ratings. Although it takes a few weeks until the final ratings with DVR usage gets released.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:01 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by unitron View Post
How do satellite companies actually provide "locals" anyway?

VHF/UHF antenna on the same mast as the dish?

Network feeds over the satellite that aren't really the local affiliates, but just the network stuff which is sent to them?

Uplinks of feeds from the locals, with the local news and weather and commercials and everything, sent back down from the satellite?
Local programming is uplinked to satellite (not necessarily the same satellite as the "cable" channels). In a few markets the "local" programming received via satellite may be LA or NYC network affiliate programming. If you take a satellite receiver programmed for one location to a new location you'll receive the locals for the original location.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:51 PM   #17
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How do satellite companies actually provide "locals" anyway?

VHF/UHF antenna on the same mast as the dish?

Network feeds over the satellite that aren't really the local affiliates, but just the network stuff which is sent to them?

Uplinks of feeds from the locals, with the local news and weather and commercials and everything, sent back down from the satellite?
Im pretty sure they can adjust the power and geographical attributes of a particular beam from the satellite, spot beam.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:03 PM   #18
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Local programming is uplinked to satellite (not necessarily the same satellite as the "cable" channels). In a few markets the "local" programming received via satellite may be LA or NYC network affiliate programming. If you take a satellite receiver programmed for one location to a new location you'll receive the locals for the original location.
So in other words it comes in to the satellite dish on your house from the same tranmitting satellite(s) as the "satellite" channels?
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:06 PM   #19
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...
You're confusing 'locals' with over the air. All of the companies provide local channels, and yes they really are the local affiliates.
No, if they aren't available over the air in my area, then they aren't "local".

That doesn't mean I have to get them over the air. In our case we get them via analog cable (at least for now, all though I'm sure TWC is working on how to break as much of my receiving equipment as possible to try to force us to rent something from them).
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:27 PM   #20
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No, if they aren't available over the air in my area, then they aren't "local".
Define the delivery of the exact same channel that is delivered OTA however you want I guess, but don't confuse everyone else.

They are locals. And like Andyw715 said, they are delivered via a spot beam only beamed to your local area, so no it's not the same signal as the rest of your channels. But who cares.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:06 PM   #21
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Define the delivery of the exact same channel that is delivered OTA however you want I guess, but don't confuse everyone else.

They are locals. And like Andyw715 said, they are delivered via a spot beam only beamed to your local area, so no it's not the same signal as the rest of your channels. But who cares.
What would be an example of a local channel that wasn't available locally over the air?
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:59 PM   #22
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They already broadcast most of their shows commercial free via on-demand and Hulu. They also are available on Amazon.
On-demand is paid for and licensed, plus providers are looking into monetizing these with additional advertising. Hulu is also paid for and not ad-free. Amazon and Netflix are ad-free, but paid for.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:48 PM   #23
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On-demand is paid for and licensed, plus providers are looking into monetizing these with additional advertising. Hulu is also paid for and not ad-free. Amazon and Netflix are ad-free, but paid for.
How do you know Dish isn't paying to offer this?
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:45 AM   #24
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How do you know Dish isn't paying to offer this?
I don't recall offering an opinion in either direction above. Having said that, I strongly suspect they're not paying. Not yet, anyway. DISH generally shoots first, asks questions later. And frequently litigates. However, given the fine print they seem to be acknowledging some programming will be excluded -- suggesting they're open to negotiation and/or will not index certain content based on certain factors. I have a recording of CEO Clayton's intro of the service, but haven't listened to it in its entirety - but I assume he doesn't mention partnerships or industry support as we would have read about them.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:30 AM   #25
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Im pretty sure they can adjust the power and geographical attributes of a particular beam from the satellite, spot beam.
Yes, aside from NYC, LA, and maybe Chicago, all locals are on spot beam on Dish. This actually results in some of the carriage disputes Dish has with local stations as the spot beam footprint can me much smaller than the traditional OTA range of the station. The local stations do not like losing those potential eyes.

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Old 05-13-2012, 10:06 AM   #26
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I don't recall offering an opinion in either direction above. Having said that, I strongly suspect they're not paying. Not yet, anyway. DISH generally shoots first, asks questions later. And frequently litigates. However, given the fine print they seem to be acknowledging some programming will be excluded -- suggesting they're open to negotiation and/or will not index certain content based on certain factors. I have a recording of CEO Clayton's intro of the service, but haven't listened to it in its entirety - but I assume he doesn't mention partnerships or industry support as we would have read about them.
I think it's highly unlikely that dish did this without some sort of negotiation with the networks or without the contractual language in their carriage contract. And if the networks are on board, they must feel they are being adequately compensated for the service, as with on-demand and Hulu.
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Old 05-13-2012, 01:52 PM   #27
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I think it's highly unlikely that dish did this without some sort of negotiation with the networks or without the contractual language in their carriage contract.
I imagine you will be proven wrong and I will be proven right. The question is, will the networks do anything about it?

NBC is already making noise:
https://twitter.com/deborahyao/statu...45178791391232
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:45 PM   #28
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I imagine you will be proven wrong and I will be proven right. The question is, will the networks do anything about it?

NBC is already making noise:
https://twitter.com/deborahyao/statu...45178791391232
Bet a wooden nickel that before the end of the week Dish will kill the Ad-Zapper.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:26 AM   #29
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More noise from NBC:

http://www.deadline.com/2012/05/nbc-...-tv-ecosystem/
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:19 PM   #30
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Well I'll admit I was wrong..! They have some pretty big balls implementing this without getting them on board!
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