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Old 05-11-2012, 09:01 PM   #1
Rob Helmerichs
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Fringe 5/11/12 "Brave New World Part 2"

I wonder if what John Noble meant by filming two endings (which the producers denied) was that they could have just lopped off the last little bit if the show wasn't coming back?

Because without that last little bit, it would have been a very good series finale.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:10 PM   #2
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I wonder if what John Noble meant by filming two endings (which the producers denied) was that they could have just lopped off the last little bit if the show wasn't coming back?

Because without that last little bit, it would have been a very good series finale.
Perhaps he was just referring to them filming the scene in the hospital as one ending, and then filming the last scene as a second ending?
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:22 PM   #3
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I wonder if what John Noble meant by filming two endings (which the producers denied) was that they could have just lopped off the last little bit if the show wasn't coming back?

Because without that last little bit, it would have been a very good series finale.
This is exactly what I think. It could have ended in the hospital and been a satisfying series finale. By adding the last bit in the lab, we have our cliffhanger for next season.

I love this show!!!
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:33 PM   #4
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I agree on all counts.

The thing with the eyes was freaky. Most creepy undead lady I've seen in quite a while. Even the zombies on The Walking Dead don't give me the willies the way she did.

So, I get the rune thing. I've watched Supernatural enough to know a Demon Trap when I see one. But how exactly was she able to singlehandedly cut away the floor and transport September and the octagonal floor piece to the warehouse? Thanks to more advanced tech she's not supposed to have, I suppose.

Nina saying "you've had the power within you the whole time" to Olivia was such a Wizard of Oz moment.

For a moment when Walter made the exit wound, I wondered if he was going to do the hard boiled egg trick being discussed in the Didja Know thread here. Probably best that he didn't, as more than the bullet would have come out....
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:17 PM   #5
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Well, even with everything leading up to Olivia being shot, I was still shocked briefly when it happened.

The eye thing was beyond creepy. I assume they did it digitally as opposed to masking off half of the lens and marrying two different takes together. (Or, the actress was really talented).

Hey, a Goa'uld larva on Bell's Ark.

How come Powder didn't know what he said in the future? Don't they live outside of time, i.e. in a non-linear verse?

It never hit me that Bell wouldn't expect to live in his new universe. That was a revelation.

So, who's coming? (Damn summer hiatus).
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:59 PM   #6
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Well, even with everything leading up to Olivia being shot, I was still shocked briefly when it happened.

The eye thing was beyond creepy. I assume they did it digitally as opposed to masking off half of the lens and marrying two different takes together. (Or, the actress was really talented).

Hey, a Goa'uld larva on Bell's Ark.

How come Powder didn't know what he said in the future? Don't they live outside of time, i.e. in a non-linear verse?

It never hit me that Bell wouldn't expect to live in his new universe. That was a revelation.

So, who's coming? (Damn summer hiatus).
The observers
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:04 AM   #7
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As soon as September explained that he hadn't seen Olivia needing to die in every scenario yet, I thought, "CRAP, not another Lost thread." At least those complaints haven't been posted yet. I personally have no problem with the scene but I can see the posts flooding in soon...

GREAT episode, it would have made a fabulous series finale, if not a tad sappy. I'm going to watch it again.

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Old 05-12-2012, 01:47 AM   #8
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Not reading the thread, I'm only 25 minutes in, but wanted to comment...

The concept of "we were created in God's image - therefore we should be able to become Gods" crossed my mind.
It kind of coincides with the idea that we, as humans, only use a small percentage of our brain power.
If we were able to tap into the full potential of the human brain, we could possibly achieve God-like status.

TBD
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:56 AM   #9
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Yeah, that ending was interesting. Somehow though I wonder if it was filmed beforehand or just tacked on when it got renewed. I mean, it shouldn't be too hard to film that extra 30 seconds at the end.

Then again, perhaps it was filmed long ago - it's a pretty generic cliffhanger ending...
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:06 AM   #10
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How come Powder didn't know what he said in the future? Don't they live outside of time, i.e. in a non-linear verse?
He may live outside of time, but he himself experiences his life linearly, just bouncing around from time to time. So he the Observers don't know everything.

I was shocked when Walter shot Olivia, even though everything pointed to her dying. It bugged me that she was magically healed through the power of Cortextaphainimonium or whatever it's called. And since her body was magically healing itself, couldn't Olivia's body have ejected the bullett without the drama of Walter sticking an antenna through her head? She has telekinesis for chrissake.

If this would have been the series finale, I would have been left very dissatisfied. It made a passible season finale, though I wish they wouldn't have just pulled William Bell out of a hat as the big bad for just the last two episodes. And I felt Bell's motivation was just weak for destroying (remaking?) the universes. "Well, I thought about what you said for awhile, Walter, and finally agreed with your bitterness. So I call a redo on the Univeres. Huzzah!"

I'm glad Astrid came through. And Walter is finally getting her name right.

It'll be interesting where they go next season, if they spend time in the future or what.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:44 AM   #11
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Yeah, that ending was interesting. Somehow though I wonder if it was filmed beforehand or just tacked on when it got renewed. I mean, it shouldn't be too hard to film that extra 30 seconds at the end.

Then again, perhaps it was filmed long ago - it's a pretty generic cliffhanger ending...
I feel that if they had cut the scene with Walter making PB&Js and encountering the Observer at the end, I would have been satisfied with the series ending.

Even with that scene cut, there could have been a premise to fall back on (the future with Etta) in case of series renewal.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:33 AM   #12
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Well, even with everything leading up to Olivia being shot, I was still shocked briefly when it happened.
I wasn't, to the extent that I almost wonder if that wasn't Bell's plan all along (he was practically screaming "All you have to do to foil me is kill Olivia"). But why?
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:57 AM   #13
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I'm not clear on how the Observer was saved from being shot by Bell's gun. It looked like a gloved hand reached out and caught the bullets. Peter looked like he was wearing a glove. Did he stop the bullets and if so how? Olivia's powers?
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:33 AM   #14
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I'm not clear on how the Observer was saved from being shot by Bell's gun. It looked like a gloved hand reached out and caught the bullets. Peter looked like he was wearing a glove. Did he stop the bullets and if so how? Olivia's powers?
Well, he was shot once, with the first round from Bell's gun. But it was Olivia who stopped the next three and slung them back into the shooter. You could see her hand recoiling with the impacts.

What I wonder is, how does Observer heal. Does the wound disappear when he goes back to his realm or what?
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:03 AM   #15
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What I wonder is, how does Observer heal. Does the wound disappear when he goes back to his realm or what?
We don't know that he does heal...it's possible that he dies from the gunshot wound after he goes back to warn Olivia.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:18 AM   #16
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Thinking back about Bell's rationale for creating a whole new verse - he didn't have very big plans. A planet with some exotic animals, a flying bear. That's it? Seems kinda piddly. He could have created a world around some far-flung star if that's all he wanted.

If you're making a new universe, go crazy! Change the laws of physics, suspend gravity, make light travel possible, (and easy), make time non-linear, create extra-dimensional objects.

The justification seems to be: Look what I can do. And he only set up the mechanism. Without Olivia, he couldn't create a popcorn fart.

A minor god at best.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:43 AM   #17
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We don't know that he does heal...it's possible that he dies from the gunshot wound after he goes back to warn Olivia.
Perhaps. But, when he comes back to warn Walter, he seems uninjured. Did he come from a different place in time, before he was shot?

What I want to know is where Spock beamed to.

And I hope that FOX doesn't wait until midseason to bring this show back.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:37 AM   #18
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Not reading the thread, I'm only 25 minutes in, but wanted to comment...

The concept of "we were created in God's image - therefore we should be able to become Gods" crossed my mind.
It kind of coincides with the idea that we, as humans, only use a small percentage of our brain power.
If we were able to tap into the full potential of the human brain, we could possibly achieve God-like status.

TBD
It's not an idea, it's a myth! We use almost all of our brain, just not all of it, all the time.

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Old 05-12-2012, 09:51 AM   #19
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And I felt Bell's motivation was just weak for destroying (remaking?) the universes. "Well, I thought about what you said for awhile, Walter, and finally agreed with your bitterness. So I call a redo on the Univeres. Huzzah!"
I understand what you mean, but don't forget a couple of things: this William Bell is a bad guy, so he doesn't need as much motivation as others might; and he had cancer, which really let him say, "Why the hell not?"
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:55 PM   #20
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And since her body was magically healing itself, couldn't Olivia's body have ejected the bullett without the drama of Walter sticking an antenna through her head? She has telekinesis for chrissake.
The telekinesis only works when she's alive. And until recently, she had to concentrate really hard to be able to use it.

The healing, on the other hand, was a passive effect of the Cortexiphan, so she didn't need to be alive for that. But being able to regenerate tissue takes a lot less force than being able to eject a bullet.

Have a brain that kept regenerating back to a given state would technically prevent someone from being able to form new memories and learn new things. But ignoring that, within the context of being able to regenerate, the way Olivia healed actually makes more sense than the way Wolverine heals.

Our bodies heal in that manner, just much slower and not from such serious injuries.

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And I felt Bell's motivation was just weak for destroying (remaking?) the universes. "Well, I thought about what you said for awhile, Walter, and finally agreed with your bitterness. So I call a redo on the Univeres. Huzzah!"
Yeah, I wasn't too impressed with Bell's motivation either. Which is why I like Rob's idea that there was something more to Bell's plan:

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I wasn't, to the extent that I almost wonder if that wasn't Bell's plan all along (he was practically screaming "All you have to do to foil me is kill Olivia"). But why?
Perhaps Olivia dying while pregnant is what put Etta off the Observers' radar.

Bell seemed to have insight into the Observers, and if he was going to destroy the universes for any reason, that would seem to be a far better one than "I'm angry". But if he actually thought the universes were about to be destroyed, why not tell Walter about them?

So I think it makes a lot of sense that Bell was playing a deeper game here. And, knowing that the Observers could watch the timeline, he had to play his role covertly to set things in motion, and then leave.

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Perhaps. But, when he comes back to warn Walter, he seems uninjured. Did he come from a different place in time, before he was shot?
Walter was able to heal him during the episode when Peter went inside his mind. And then other Observers came and took him away, but Peter activated a beacon that allowed him to find his way back. So either this is after that time or before he was shot.

I'm thinking after, but who knows.

They still haven't tied anything back to the original timeline, but hopefully next season is when everything will come together. You have 13 episodes writers. Don't waste any of them!
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:31 PM   #21
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Yes I agree the eye thing was really creepy! Also the antenna through Olivia's head made me a little queasy! Glad the show will be back for a final 13!
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:38 PM   #22
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Yes I agree the eye thing was really creepy! Also the antenna through Olivia's head made me a little queasy! Glad the show will be back for a final 13!
I bet Olivia will get great reception, now.
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:58 PM   #23
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Was anything Bell did connected to the Observers, or were they 2 different things? They mentioned having tech they shouldn't have had, or something....otherwise, I don't remember Bell saying anything about them. I expected them to be his whole reason for what he was doing, but he really didn't have a very good reason, did he? Because I can, maybe.

It seemed obvious from the beginning that they needed to kill Olivia, but no one said it. Seemed odd, but then I didn't see it coming when Walter did it. I expected Olivia herself to do it.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:07 PM   #24
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But ignoring that, within the context of being able to regenerate, the way Olivia healed actually makes more sense than the way Wolverine heals.

Our bodies heal in that manner, just much slower and not from such serious injuries.
Not really. It would have been more consistent if the injury HAD healed within a few seconds of her getting shot, but with the bullet still inside her brain, and the brain tissue healed around it, and then she regained consciousness. Removing the bullet would not have been necessary to start the healing process, especially the part that was visible to us at the front of her head. Of course, infection would be an issue if someone actually survived getting shot in the head like that, especially with that dirty old bullet. Who knows where Bell has put it!

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Old 05-12-2012, 04:01 PM   #25
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I hope Bell has deeper motives, because if that was it.... well I wouldn't consider this "The Big Payoff" we were promised.
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:18 PM   #26
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Bell in some way must have been working with the Observers or some Observers. Otherwise, where did Bell and Jessica get the rune from that captured September? September knew of the technology but said that it was "beyond" them. So they had to have been given it.
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:23 PM   #27
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I understand what you mean, but don't forget a couple of things: this William Bell is a bad guy, so he doesn't need as much motivation as others might; and he had cancer, which really let him say, "Why the hell not?"
Yes, Bell had lymphomic cancer and was in the final stages.
He'd also be dosing himself with Cortexiphan so I wonder if that also affected his mental status.

Or Bell could have been planning this to avoid the Observer controlled future.
It could go either way.
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:38 PM   #28
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And since her body was magically healing itself, couldn't Olivia's body have ejected the bullett without the drama of Walter sticking an antenna through her head? She has telekinesis for chrissake.

And I felt Bell's motivation was just weak for destroying (remaking?) the universes.
Remember she was shot in the head by Walternate in the 2026 (The Day We Died) and stayed dead. The writers had to come up with some device that would explain how she lived in one and dies in the other event.

Bell still has cancer and it may have metastasized to his brain, making him clinically insane.
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:49 PM   #29
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What I want to know is where Spock beamed to.
They used the same Special effects that were used for Alistair Peck in "White Tulip." (Joel Wyman acknowledged this on twitter last night) This suggests time travel. Either Bell has time travel (then why would he try collapsing the universes when he knows it is doomed to fail?) Or he was being transported through time by someone who does (his future self?)
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:36 PM   #30
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Perhaps Olivia dying while pregnant is what put Etta off the Observers' radar.
Or a side effect from Olivia being full of Cortexiphan when Etta was conceived.
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