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Old 03-31-2012, 07:02 PM   #8551
David Vaughn
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OK...now that I have the image, what program do I use to create a new hard drive?

Thanks.
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:17 PM   #8552
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Originally Posted by David Vaughn View Post
OK...now that I have the image, what program do I use to create a new hard drive?

Thanks.
That particular image, which has a .tbk extension instead of a .bak extension, needs to be restored to a drive by the WinMFS program.

Go to mfslive.org

That's where you can read about and get both the MFS Live bootable cd, which is what you would need for a .bak file, and the WinMFS program, which creates .tbk image files

Of course if you don't have a PC running Windows XP or newer, we'll have to figure something else out.
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:33 PM   #8553
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I have a Win 7 machine. I assume I just "restore backup?"
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:51 PM   #8554
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I have a Win 7 machine. I assume I just "restore backup?"
You have to run WinMFS with admin rights for it to be able to see the drive.

Do not try looking at the drive with any other program after booting into Windows with the drive attached.

Run WinMFS, click on select drive, be sure you've got the correct drive selected, then click on "restore" and steer it toward the .tbk file.

If you're restoring to the XL's original 1TB drive, you won't be able to make the swap partition any larger if it offers that option, and if it shows the checkbox for partition layout, you want the one for Series 2 and up, but read it carefully because it's worded funny.

Once it starts the process, it can look as though it has frozen. It hasn't. Just wait for it to finish.
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:23 AM   #8555
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Question 2 dead Series 3s w/ expanders. What to do?

My situation is a little different than I could find in the FAQ. Here's what I have:

Searies 3 w/ original internal drive and 500gb expander. Starts to boot and have actually gotten it to start update but fails everytime before completing.

Series 3 w/orig internal and recent 1TB expander. Internal drive dead. when plugged in 4 lights and logo come on. Logo disappears and TV screen turns grey. Nothing else happens.

Dell desktop w/ Vista 64 and RAID 0 array

Thinkpad W520 w/docking station (eSATA connection) Win 7 64
Thermaltake single and dual docks w/ eSATA and USB (dual dock only recognizes both drive through USB).

No backups.

Would prefer to use laptop and docks rather than opening desktop.

Is it likely I might extract a backup from the failing drive? Or will I need instaCake (?)

If I can get a backup, can I use it to upgrade both Series 3's?

How do I use the expanders with the upgraded drives? Do I need to get eSATA > USB adapter? Remove drive from enclosure?

Instead of fixing things when the first drive started failing, I just set it aside. Both boxes have lifetime service, so replacing them is not an option.

Thanks for any help.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:52 AM   #8556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasel View Post
My situation is a little different than I could find in the FAQ. Here's what I have:

Searies 3 w/ original internal drive and 500gb expander. Starts to boot and have actually gotten it to start update but fails everytime before completing.

Series 3 w/orig internal and recent 1TB expander. Internal drive dead. when plugged in 4 lights and logo come on. Logo disappears and TV screen turns grey. Nothing else happens.

Dell desktop w/ Vista 64 and RAID 0 array

Thinkpad W520 w/docking station (eSATA connection) Win 7 64
Thermaltake single and dual docks w/ eSATA and USB (dual dock only recognizes both drive through USB).

No backups.

Would prefer to use laptop and docks rather than opening desktop.

Is it likely I might extract a backup from the failing drive? Or will I need instaCake (?)

If I can get a backup, can I use it to upgrade both Series 3's?

How do I use the expanders with the upgraded drives? Do I need to get eSATA > USB adapter? Remove drive from enclosure?

Instead of fixing things when the first drive started failing, I just set it aside. Both boxes have lifetime service, so replacing them is not an option.

Thanks for any help.
I don't suppose you live anywhere in the Wilmington-New Bern-Morehead City area?

Maybe the eSATA connections will be sufficiently close to "bare metal" to work.

Are those both TCD648250s? TCD652160s? TCD658000s?

There are images available for all 3 without having to use IC.

You need to pull the internal drives and run WD's own diagnostic software long test, preferably from the bootable cd version.

You need to separate the questions of whether the drive itself is failing and whether the TiVo software on the drive has a problem.

If the long test can find and fix any problems, then maybe Kickstart 58 can fix the software afterward.

And you should see if you can't run the long test on the expanders as well.

Maybe even open up the enclosures and extract the drives.


The second one, the one that goes gray, seems to be unable to communicate with the internal drive, but we don't know why yet. Connector managed to come loose? Dead drive? Until you pick up a #10 Torx driver, who knows?

The first one, seems to communicate to some extent with the drive, you could try KS 58 before opening it up, but that internal drive ain't gettin' any younger, you still need to run the long test.

Also, the eSATA cables connecting the expanders could be at fault, or the jacks into which they plug.
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:13 PM   #8557
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Upgraded TivoHDs

Hi all. I decided last week that I wanted to upgrade my TivoHDs with larger capacity drives. With HDD prices finally falling after that Thailand flood situation, I was able to purchase a Seagate 2TB drive from Newegg for a "reasonable" price. This 2TB drive replaces 2 Seagate 750GB drives I had in RAID 0 in my PC. I used these 2 750 GB drives to upgrade 2 of my TivoHDs. I used WinMFS on Windows 7 Professional x64 and it worked perfectly using "Run as Administrator" as recommended. I removed the original drive from my Master Bedroom TivoHD, copied the drive and expanded (MFS Supersize On) to the first 750 GB drive. I reinstalled the drive and powered up. I noticed immediatly that the new drive is quite a bit louder than the old drive. Googling revealed that I should have used MFSLive after the upgrade to hdparm -M 128 /dev/sdX to tone down the noise. So I upgraded the other TivoHD from my Livingroom using the same WinMFS strategy, then booted into MFSLive and successfully used the hdparm command. I installed the new drive in TivoHD #2. It boots up and is much quieter. I then took the drive out of the first TivoHD that I upgraded and ran the hdparm command to see this drive return an error saying something about this drive not supporting AAM. More Googling revealed that Seagate seems to no longer support AAM on their drives. FAQ 32 of this very thread also mentions this. Is there anyway to make AAM work on this drive? These 2 drives are both Seagate and somehow it worked on the first drive. One of these drives is newer than the other, so maybe the first was old enough to still have AAM capability? Is there any other way to adjust AAM on this drive, or am I stuck doing a switcheroo to put the quieter drive in my bedroom? Sorry for the long read. Thanks to all those who reply.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:29 AM   #8558
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I have a 1TB WD Caviar Green drive that I want to put in my TiVoHD. The FAQ at the very front mentions a month of September when the Intellipark feature was implemented, but doesn't mention a year. My drive was manufactured in Jan 2009. Would I have to set it using the WDIDLE feature?

Thanks!
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:52 AM   #8559
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Took abut 8 hours and several tries but I finally got both Series 3 boxes up and running with 1tb drives.

Used my Thinkpad, dock, and eSata drive docks.

The backup from the box that was faltering couldn't be used for the dead one. It left out subscription information and status code that only came from the "dead' drive. I managed to get it to backup after several tries only to find I still had to unmarry it from the expander.

Finally got a working backup and restored to the new drive and everything worked. 157hrs on each drive, so I'll probably just leave the expanders off for now rather than mess with them again, and adding another failure source to the mix.

Thanks for the thread and FAQs. Couldn't have done it without them.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:02 PM   #8560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoEagles View Post
I have a 1TB WD Caviar Green drive that I want to put in my TiVoHD. The FAQ at the very front mentions a month of September when the Intellipark feature was implemented, but doesn't mention a year. My drive was manufactured in Jan 2009. Would I have to set it using the WDIDLE feature?

Thanks!
Go here

http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-crit...reen-hdds.html

Go down to where it says

How to Adjust Intellipark's Timer

Click on the

WDIDLE3 ISO image

link


to download the image and then burn yourself a copy.

Boot with the cd and run wdidle3 against the drive. Either it needs it done and that will do it, or you will find out it doesn't need it and no harm done.

You might want to get the WD diagnostic software and run the long test on that drive as well to make sure all is well before you put it in the TiVo and start trusting it to record stuff for you.


If that page isn't available, maybe the direct link will still work

http://files.ngohq.com/fs/wdidle3.iso
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:15 PM   #8561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Go here

http://www.ngohq.com/news/19805-crit...reen-hdds.html

Go down to where it says

How to Adjust Intellipark's Timer

Click on the

WDIDLE3 ISO image

link


to download the image and then burn yourself a copy.

Boot with the cd and run wdidle3 against the drive. Either it needs it done and that will do it, or you will find out it doesn't need it and no harm done.

You might want to get the WD diagnostic software and run the long test on that drive as well to make sure all is well before you put it in the TiVo and start trusting it to record stuff for you.


If that page isn't available, maybe the direct link will still work

http://files.ngohq.com/fs/wdidle3.iso
Thanks for the information, I have just two notebooks, so I have to find a PC to pull this off.

Thanks!
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:37 PM   #8562
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WD10EARX no go :(

My parents S3 original drive went belly up this week. Being a good son I am trying to prep a drive to take to them. Since I am short on time I went to Best Buy and picked up a Retail WD 1 TB Green drive. It is WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN on package and a WD10EARX on drive label. According to WD this drive has Advanced Format enabled. I have a WinMFS S3 backup of 11.0f that I am trying to use to restore. I restore with WinMFS and add space to fill 1 TB. At first it wouldn't get beyond Powering Up, but WDIDLE3 got me past that. Then it got to Almost There / Ready Set Go and then rebooted. After reboot it went to green screen. I have tried both with AF jumper on and off and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Luckily I have a WD10EACS and WD10EADS in a Windows Media Center that I am going to swap with this new drive and hopefully that will work. Just wanted to share my experiences in case anyone else comes across them. Getting good drives for the S3 / TiVoHD seems harder every day due to aging architecture / OS-Kernel.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:06 PM   #8563
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I believe the advance format works in a PC on a single partition and not on multiple partitions unless you download a utility from WDC.com

Tivo uses multiple partitions.

Http://Support.wdc.com/product/downloadsw.asp?sid=128
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:06 PM   #8564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyty View Post
My parents S3 original drive went belly up this week. Being a good son I am trying to prep a drive to take to them. Since I am short on time I went to Best Buy and picked up a Retail WD 1 TB Green drive. It is WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN on package and a WD10EARX on drive label. According to WD this drive has Advanced Format enabled. I have a WinMFS S3 backup of 11.0f that I am trying to use to restore. I restore with WinMFS and add space to fill 1 TB. At first it wouldn't get beyond Powering Up, but WDIDLE3 got me past that. Then it got to Almost There / Ready Set Go and then rebooted. After reboot it went to green screen. I have tried both with AF jumper on and off and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Luckily I have a WD10EACS and WD10EADS in a Windows Media Center that I am going to swap with this new drive and hopefully that will work. Just wanted to share my experiences in case anyone else comes across them. Getting good drives for the S3 / TiVoHD seems harder every day due to aging architecture / OS-Kernel.
The EADS should work just fine, it's not a 4K sector drive. The EACS might be, the 20EACS (2TB version) is.

Which one has the C: partition?

Burn yourself a copy of the MFS Live cd, then use

dd_rescue

with the -v option (so you can see what's going on)

to "Xerox" the EADS to the EARX

Then make sure the EARX works in the WMC computer.

If it does, go ahead and use WinMFS to restore to the EADS, and specify a swap partition size of 512 (that's only about 7 or 8 minutes of video, cheap insurance if the TiVo ever needs the space to fix something).

Just be sure at all times you keep track of which drive is which, especially when you boot with the MFS Live cd and it's all /dev/sda and /dev/sdb and such. Don't have any drives connected that you don't need to at any given time.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:21 AM   #8565
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Well scratch everything I said due to bad backup. Apparently the WinMFS backup I made was bad it seems. I found a 648.tbk in another thread from unitron and restored that and it booted fine. Not sure how I got a bad backup but it was only about 250 MB as opposed to the other one at 300 MB. Apparently the 4K drives work fine in Series 3. I booted it in my S3 and will try it out in my parents tomorrow.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:54 AM   #8566
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Well scratch everything I said due to bad backup. Apparently the WinMFS backup I made was bad it seems. I found a 648.tbk in another thread from unitron and restored that and it booted fine. Not sure how I got a bad backup but it was only about 250 MB as opposed to the other one at 300 MB. Apparently the 4K drives work fine in Series 3. I booted it in my S3 and will try it out in my parents tomorrow.
Are you saying that the EARX works in a TiVo?

How have you got it jumpered?
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:20 AM   #8567
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Are you saying that the EARX works in a TiVo?

How have you got it jumpered?
Yep, I only tested it for a few hours to make sure it booted and connected to service ok. I have now done a C&D to prep for install in it new permanent home tonight.

I didn't put any jumpers on it, left it in out of box state.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:44 PM   #8568
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The EADS should work just fine, it's not a 4K sector drive. The EACS might be, the 20EACS (2TB version) is.

.......

If it does, go ahead and use WinMFS to restore to the EADS, and specify a swap partition size of 512 (that's only about 7 or 8 minutes of video, cheap insurance if the TiVo ever needs the space to fix something).
Unitron:

1. Many thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge. Your posts are invaluable.

2. I managed to resurrect two TiVo HD units (one of which I got for free with a dead HD) with different versions of the older WD 1.5TB green drives. I was also able to save my old programs on a failing 160 GB original HD, and encourage anyone on the fence who has basic PC hardware skills to give the DIY route a try.

3. Can you explain your recommendation to increase the swap space to 512. Does that 1) make disk recovery possible when it would not be otherwise in an expanded disk, 2) make disk recovery significantly faster than it would be otherwise on an expanded disk and/or 3) improve performance when in normal use? Can that the swap space be increased after the expansion has been completed?

Best Regards!
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:10 PM   #8569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholsen View Post
Unitron:

1. Many thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge. Your posts are invaluable.

2. I managed to resurrect two TiVo HD units (one of which I got for free with a dead HD) with different versions of the older WD 1.5TB green drives. I was also able to save my old programs on a failing 160 GB original HD, and encourage anyone on the fence who has basic PC hardware skills to give the DIY route a try.

3. Can you explain your recommendation to increase the swap space to 512. Does that 1) make disk recovery possible when it would not be otherwise in an expanded disk, 2) make disk recovery significantly faster than it would be otherwise on an expanded disk and/or 3) improve performance when in normal use? Can that the swap space be increased after the expansion has been completed?

Best Regards!
Okay, this is not my area of expertise by a long shot.

Apparently the TiVo software can get mangled sometimes, and sometimes the TiVo can repair that, and needs the swap partition as extra working space while doing it. The bigger the drive, supposedly, the bigger the swap space needed, and if it doesn't have enough it gets stuck in a reboot loop.

Back in the early days of drive "embiggening", the pioneers worked out a rule of thumb of 1MB of swap for every 2GB of drive.

I don't know how they came up with it, but I figure they know a lot more than I do about it.

Is it still necessary? I don't know, but 1GB, or 1000MB, (which you'd use on a 2TB drive) is only about 15 minutes of best quality video, so I figure it's cheap insurance.

MFS Live and WinMFS can make bigger swap partitions during the restore process, prior to any expansion by partition addition, but jmfs cannot.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:10 PM   #8570
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second internal drive upgrade?

Saw at the beginning of this post/faq the upgrade options. None was just adding a second internal drive. Didn't see any post in search. So is this that stupid of a question? Can I just add a second internal drive and not have to put up with a giant (giant for bedroom setup) external box with 2 more wires, or having to swap drives back and forth from computer (to keep recorded shows) to install one larger drive?

Thanks!

P.S.
Almost forgot, it is a tivo hd.

P.S.S.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:35 PM   #8571
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Quote:
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Saw at the beginning of this post/faq the upgrade options. None was just adding a second internal drive. Didn't see any post in search. So is this that stupid of a question? Can I just add a second internal drive and not have to put up with a giant (giant for bedroom setup) external box with 2 more wires, or having to swap drives back and forth from computer (to keep recorded shows) to install one larger drive?

Thanks!

P.S.
Almost forgot, it is a tivo hd.

P.S.S.
Been a Tivo head since single tuner series 2 came out.
No room. No power. No connector. No s/w support. Need more?
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Old 04-13-2012, 05:37 PM   #8572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallshark View Post
Saw at the beginning of this post/faq the upgrade options. None was just adding a second internal drive. Didn't see any post in search. So is this that stupid of a question? Can I just add a second internal drive and not have to put up with a giant (giant for bedroom setup) external box with 2 more wires, or having to swap drives back and forth from computer (to keep recorded shows) to install one larger drive?

Thanks!

P.S.
Almost forgot, it is a tivo hd.

P.S.S.
Been a Tivo head since single tuner series 2 came out.
Second drive on a Series 3 or 4 doesn't work like the second drive on an S1 or S2.

On an S1 or S2, if the media partitions on the first drive don't have enough room left, shows go on the partion(s) on the second drive.

S3 and S4, each show recorded gets put partly on the first drive and partly on the second, so if either drive fails you lose everything recorded since the second drive was added. It's one of those DRM things to keep the content providers happy.

Adding a second drive is thought by many to double the chance of drive failure.

Better to copy your S3 HD's original drive to a larger one and set the original aside on the shelf.

You can probably get a lot more GB per $ buying a bigger internal drive than either of the WD externals that are the only ones which will work with the S3s and S4s.

What kind of spare drives have you got lying around?
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:00 PM   #8573
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Second drive on a Series 3 or 4 doesn't work like the second drive on an S1 or S2.

On an S1 or S2, if the media partitions on the first drive don't have enough room left, shows go on the partion(s) on the second drive.

S3 and S4, each show recorded gets put partly on the first drive and partly on the second, so if either drive fails you lose everything recorded since the second drive was added. It's one of those DRM things to keep the content providers happy.

Adding a second drive is thought by many to double the chance of drive failure.

Better to copy your S3 HD's original drive to a larger one and set the original aside on the shelf.

You can probably get a lot more GB per $ buying a bigger internal drive than either of the WD externals that are the only ones which will work with the S3s and S4s.

What kind of spare drives have you got lying around?
He wasn't asking about the advantages of changing the internal drive vs. adding a second drive, he was asking why he couldn't install an additional internal drive instead of an external drive.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:13 PM   #8574
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Is it that it's been 'that' long since Tivo HD users have had to upgrade their HDs? I ask since the first page has only a handful of 1TB drives to use and the prices for those are outrageous. Anyone try a 'newer' 1TB drive and have success? At this point I've had some issues (I think it's the external WD Book) so I think I'll get a 1TB drive 'just in case'.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:28 PM   #8575
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He wasn't asking about the advantages of changing the internal drive vs. adding a second drive, he was asking why he couldn't install an additional internal drive instead of an external drive.
If you don't mind doing a lot of jury-rigging, you can put a second drive inside an S3 HD, but it'll be the equivalent of an external as far as how the TiVo treats it.

As I point out, it's not the same as adding a slave on the S2 or S2 IDE cable.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:35 PM   #8576
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If you don't mind doing a lot of jury-rigging, you can put a second drive inside an S3 HD, but it'll be the equivalent of an external as far as how the TiVo treats it.

As I point out, it's not the same as adding a slave on the S2 or S2 IDE cable.
Has anyone actually done this? Assuming you can actually cram a second drive in there, it's still a Really.Bad.Idea just on the basis of the additional load on the power supply and the additional heat. You would not just be adding the heat of the drive, you would be adversely affecting the air flow.

My point was that he already understood the arguments of changing the main drive vs. adding a second drive. The difference in the way an S1/S2 treats an additional drive vs. an S3/S4 is irrelevant, as is how they are connected (PATA vs. SATA).
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:16 PM   #8577
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Has anyone actually done this? Assuming you can actually cram a second drive in there, it's still a Really.Bad.Idea just on the basis of the additional load on the power supply and the additional heat. You would not just be adding the heat of the drive, you would be adversely affecting the air flow.

My point was that he already understood the arguments of changing the main drive vs. adding a second drive. The difference in the way an S1/S2 treats an additional drive vs. an S3/S4 is irrelevant, as is how they are connected (PATA vs. SATA).
So he came here to ask a bunch of questions to which he already knew the answers?
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:44 PM   #8578
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So he came here to ask a bunch of questions to which he already knew the answers?
Um, no. He was asking why there were no instructions/discussion about adding an additional internal drive. He wants the additional capacity w/o replacing the existing drive or adding to the clutter.

I think the bottom line is a combination of both of our second posts on the subject - with a lot of jury-rigging , you can install a second "internal" drive. This is probably more work than that involved in creating a larger replacement internal drive and is A.Really.Bad.Idea.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:59 PM   #8579
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Um, no. He was asking why there were no instructions/discussion about adding an additional internal drive. He wants the additional capacity w/o replacing the existing drive or adding to the clutter.

I think the bottom line is a combination of both of our second posts on the subject - with a lot of jury-rigging , you can install a second "internal" drive. This is probably more work than that involved in creating a larger replacement internal drive and is A.Really.Bad.Idea.
I said putting a second drive inside an S3 HD is possible, and elsewhere I've even mentioned how to tap off power for it, but that's not the same as recommending that anyone actually do so, or thinking that it's a good idea.

Allow me to state for the record:

It is not a good idea.

Considering the way recordings are split on S3s and S4s, I don't consider a second drive a good idea no matter where it's located.

Unless it's located inside a computer running TiVo Desktop or something else that can make back up copies of the shows the TiVo records.

That I consider a good idea.

Besides, as I understand it, you can't easily use an approved external on an S3 HD and have a larger than stock internal anyway, so you can get more space replacing the internal with a 2TB instead. (secret recipe available upon request)
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:24 PM   #8580
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I said putting a second drive inside an S3 HD is possible, and elsewhere I've even mentioned how to tap off power for it, but that's not the same as recommending that anyone actually do so, or thinking that it's a good idea.
I never thought you were recommending it. Shall we agree to, well, agree?

I also agree with you on the adding another drive option - if you are going to go that route, add it to your computer. You can get a lot more space that way and you don't add another point of failure to your TiVo.

Current drive prices being what they are, adding space in any manner is a bit expensive. Unfortunately, the latest word is that it will likely remain that way at least through this year.
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