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Old 02-26-2012, 01:29 PM   #1
rchang4
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Cloning 1TB drive in Series3 HD

Hi,

I need to replace the 1TB drive in my S3 HD (because the hard drive is becoming unreliable), and I'd like to keep all the programs on it.

Has anyone had experience cloning a 1TB drive, byte for byte, and is there any reason to believe that such a clone WON'T work? It seems to me that if I cloned the drive byte for byte, then put it back in the Tivo, then everything should work as before, including all the programs I have on it.

Can I use my Windows 7 machine to perform the clone process?

Thank you for any help or insights,

Robert
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:38 PM   #2
L David Matheny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rchang4 View Post
Hi,

I need to replace the 1TB drive in my S3 HD (because the hard drive is becoming unreliable), and I'd like to keep all the programs on it.

Has anyone had experience cloning a 1TB drive, byte for byte, and is there any reason to believe that such a clone WON'T work? It seems to me that if I cloned the drive byte for byte, then put it back in the Tivo, then everything should work as before, including all the programs I have on it.

Can I use my Windows 7 machine to perform the clone process?

Thank you for any help or insights,

Robert
I believe you're right, but I've never done that. I may try it one of these days just for backup purposes. You would, of course, have to clone to a drive similar to the old drive and the same size or (a bit) larger. Any utility that can truly perform byte-for-byte cloning should work, I think. If you have a Gigabyte motherboard, search the forum for the issues with those. And I would feel safer doing the clone when not booted into Windows.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:47 PM   #3
jrtroo
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Just use the tool WinMFS. Then you can save an image (just in case) and "supersize" your drive.

http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/

Copying the programs can take a LOOONG time. Mine took nearly 24 hours, so don't do it in bad weather!

Also, which unit do you have? A series 3 or a HD or a HD XL (the HD/HDXL are part of the series 3 line, but are common references here- they do not have a screen)? If the 1TB drive is original, then it is a HD XL, and you can instead upgrade to a 2TB drive, but that would need to use another tool (jmfs Live CD).
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rchang4 View Post
Hi,

I need to replace the 1TB drive in my S3 HD (because the hard drive is becoming unreliable), and I'd like to keep all the programs on it.

Has anyone had experience cloning a 1TB drive, byte for byte, and is there any reason to believe that such a clone WON'T work? It seems to me that if I cloned the drive byte for byte, then put it back in the Tivo, then everything should work as before, including all the programs I have on it.

Can I use my Windows 7 machine to perform the clone process?

Thank you for any help or insights,

Robert
Check out dd and dd_rescue which are on the bootable tools disk you can download at MFSLIVE.ORG. dd does a byte-for-byte copy and I think that dd_rescue does the same but can also handle some disk errors.
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:41 PM   #5
unitron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rchang4 View Post
Hi,

I need to replace the 1TB drive in my S3 HD (because the hard drive is becoming unreliable), and I'd like to keep all the programs on it.

Has anyone had experience cloning a 1TB drive, byte for byte, and is there any reason to believe that such a clone WON'T work? It seems to me that if I cloned the drive byte for byte, then put it back in the Tivo, then everything should work as before, including all the programs I have on it.

Can I use my Windows 7 machine to perform the clone process?

Thank you for any help or insights,

Robert
If what you really want to do is "Xerox" the drive, that is a byte for byte copy, go to mfslive.org and download the zip file of the .iso image for the MFS Live cd v1.4 and burn yourself a copy.


Hook both drives up to the computer and boot from the cd, bypassing the Windows drive altogether.

Once it finishes booting and gets to the command prompt, use

SHIFT+PAGE UP to go back up all the stuff on the screen to see what it's calling which drive.

It should be something like

/dev/sda

and

/dev/sdb

and so on through the alphabet.


To be sure which drive is which

hdparm -I /dev/sda

will give you detailed info on whichever drive is being regarded as sda, including model number and serial number.

Then do it again but substitute

/dev/sdb


and so on until you've accounted for the source drive, the target drive, and the drive you've got Windows on.

(If you're using a GigaByte brand motherboard you should probably leave the Windows drive connected and be careful to know which one it is and don't do anything to it)


Let's say your Windows drive is hooked up and is /dev/sda, and that the current TiVo drive, the source, is identified as /dev/sdb, and the new drive, the target, is identified as /dev/sdc


dd_rescue -v /dev/sdb /dev/sdc

will do a byte for byte copy.

It'll take a while.

(the -v let's you see what's going on. If the screen blanks after awhile, hit the space bar once to restore it without interrupting what it's doing. If for some reason you have to interrupt the process, CTRL+C will do that.)


Generally

command -?

or

command -h

will get you a short help on the various commands available on that cd.

All of that said, WinMFS (also available at mfslive.org), which runs as a Windows program, but you need administrator rights in Win7 for it to be able to see the drives, may do what you actually want to more quickly and more easily.

When booted to Windows, any version, do not try to look at TiVo drives with any program other than WinMFS.


But before doing that, perhaps you should consider Kickstart 58, to fix anything gone wrong with the TiVo software, and also run the drive manufacturer's diagnostic software long test to let it relocate and reallocate failing sectors if it finds any.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:53 PM   #6
bcouture
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rchang4 View Post
Hi,

I need to replace the 1TB drive in my S3 HD (because the hard drive is becoming unreliable), and I'd like to keep all the programs on it.

Has anyone had experience cloning a 1TB drive, byte for byte, and is there any reason to believe that such a clone WON'T work? It seems to me that if I cloned the drive byte for byte, then put it back in the Tivo, then everything should work as before, including all the programs I have on it.

Can I use my Windows 7 machine to perform the clone process?

Thank you for any help or insights,

Robert
Hi Robert!

I'm having the same problem, and about to do the same "fix" (except I'll be using XP
instead of Windows 7).

I'd appreciate it if you documented your experience, it might be helpful to the rest of
us.

Thanks!
Bill
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:16 PM   #7
unitron
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Originally Posted by bcouture View Post
Hi Robert!

I'm having the same problem, and about to do the same "fix" (except I'll be using XP
instead of Windows 7).

I'd appreciate it if you documented your experience, it might be helpful to the rest of
us.

Thanks!
Bill
Is your TiVo a Series 3 model?

What size drive is in it now?

What size drive do you plan to put in it?

What's the brand and model of the new drive you plan to use?

Do you know how to burn an .iso image onto a cd?
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Old 03-01-2012, 10:53 PM   #8
bcouture
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Is your TiVo a Series 3 model?

What size drive is in it now?

What size drive do you plan to put in it?

What's the brand and model of the new drive you plan to use?

Do you know how to burn an .iso image onto a cd?
It's a Tivo HD XL, 1 TB drive.

I'm thinking of replace it with a 1 TB drive, but will be looking around a bit more to see if a 2 TB drive will work.

Brand and model is not quite certain yet. I was thinking of WD Caviar "black" drive, but in googling around today I learned about WD Intellipower drives and need to check them out more.

Yes, I know how to write an .ISO to a CD. I upgraded my old series 1 Tivo to dual 120GB drives and ethernet, but didn't feel a need to hack the HD XL.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:29 PM   #9
unitron
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Originally Posted by bcouture View Post
It's a Tivo HD XL, 1 TB drive.

I'm thinking of replace it with a 1 TB drive, but will be looking around a bit more to see if a 2 TB drive will work.

Brand and model is not quite certain yet. I was thinking of WD Caviar "black" drive, but in googling around today I learned about WD Intellipower drives and need to check them out more.

Yes, I know how to write an .ISO to a CD. I upgraded my old series 1 Tivo to dual 120GB drives and ethernet, but didn't feel a need to hack the HD XL.
Go ahead and go to mfslive.org and download the zip of the iso for the MFS Live cd v1.4 and burn yourself a copy.

It's what superceeded the old MFS Tools and is handy to have on hand if you own any hard drives at all.

If you want to "Xerox" to another 1TB drive it has the

dd_rescue

utility which will do it nicely.

If you want to upgrade to a 2TB, you should go learn about jmfs.

It was developed to use on the Premiere, but can be used on the S3 HD and HD XL.


I'm running some 1TB Caviar Blacks in dual tuner S2s and they work fine, but they're really more drive than necessary in a TiVo. They spin faster than needed and get pretty hot. I've added hard drive fans to the ones I use.

The Caviar Greens seem to work just fine in S3s, you just need to run Western Digital's wdidle3 utility to disable Intellipark or set its waiting period so long that it's the same as disabling it. A drive that's being written to and read from every sliver of every second doesn't need a sleep mode, and if the TiVo ever needs to reboot itself, it quits talking to the drive long enough for the default setting time to pass, so that when the TiVo goes to talk to the drive again, the drive is asleep, and doesn't wake up in time to answer the TiVo in the amount of time the TiVo (which isn't designed to wait for drive to wake up) expects it to.

Lately several people seem to have had a problem trying to use current model 2TB Seagate drives in the S3 HD and HD XL models.

I haven't heard one way or the other about Samsung or Hitachi 2TB drives, although I'm sucessfully using a 1TB Samsung in an S2.
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:16 PM   #10
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Go ahead and go to mfslive.org and download the zip of the iso for the MFS Live cd v1.4 and burn yourself a copy.

...<snip>...

The Caviar Greens seem to work just fine in S3s, you just need to run Western Digital's wdidle3 utility to disable Intellipark or set its waiting period so long that it's the same as disabling it. A drive that's being written to and read from every sliver of every second doesn't need a sleep mode, and if the TiVo ever needs to reboot itself, it quits talking to the drive long enough for the default setting time to pass, so that when the TiVo goes to talk to the drive again, the drive is asleep, and doesn't wake up in time to answer the TiVo in the amount of time the TiVo (which isn't designed to wait for drive to wake up) expects it to.

Lately several people seem to have had a problem trying to use current model 2TB Seagate drives in the S3 HD and HD XL models.

I haven't heard one way or the other about Samsung or Hitachi 2TB drives, although I'm sucessfully using a 1TB Samsung in an S2.
Thanks for the drive info, that's what I was looking for. I was checking the update FAQ thread, but that is 283 pages long!

New drive is on order, and current drive is behaving better after running kickstart 54 tests, including overnight test. Maybe it just needed to be scrubbed a little...

Bill
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:41 PM   #11
unitron
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Thanks for the drive info, that's what I was looking for. I was checking the update FAQ thread, but that is 283 pages long!

New drive is on order, and current drive is behaving better after running kickstart 54 tests, including overnight test. Maybe it just needed to be scrubbed a little...

Bill
If KS 54 didn't find anything wrong with the physical drive, then you can run KS 58 to straighten out the software if it needs it.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:52 AM   #12
rchang4
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If KS 54 didn't find anything wrong with the physical drive, then you can run KS 58 to straighten out the software if it needs it.
Thanks everyone for your very helpful comments - particularly yours, unitron.

I'm back focused on this now it's the weekend. I just burned a cd of JMFS and upon booting up with that cd with the my 1TB tivo disk and a new 1 TB disk both connected, JMFS complains that there is no Tivo drive detected in the system. Not good... (I just took the Tivo disk out of the Tivo so I know it still works).

Next I ran mfslayout.sh on the Tivo disk - that returned a "no valid partition table detected" message. Again not good...

What the heck - I just started the cloning process, copying my 1TB tivo drive to the newly purchased 1TB drive. That will take about 5-6 hrs if the current rate holds.

Question - with the errors I got above, no Tivo disk recognized and no valid partition table detected, does this mean my Tivo software is hosed? Would kickstart help? If so, which kickstart should I do after the disk finishes copying?

Thank you so much again for your help!

Robert
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:37 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by rchang4 View Post
Thanks everyone for your very helpful comments - particularly yours, unitron.

I'm back focused on this now it's the weekend. I just burned a cd of JMFS and upon booting up with that cd with the my 1TB tivo disk and a new 1 TB disk both connected, JMFS complains that there is no Tivo drive detected in the system. Not good... (I just took the Tivo disk out of the Tivo so I know it still works).

Next I ran mfslayout.sh on the Tivo disk - that returned a "no valid partition table detected" message. Again not good...

What the heck - I just started the cloning process, copying my 1TB tivo drive to the newly purchased 1TB drive. That will take about 5-6 hrs if the current rate holds.

Question - with the errors I got above, no Tivo disk recognized and no valid partition table detected, does this mean my Tivo software is hosed? Would kickstart help? If so, which kickstart should I do after the disk finishes copying?

Thank you so much again for your help!

Robert
What brand and model number is the 1TB drive in your S3 HD (I assume you have a TCD652160 which started life with a 160GB Western Digital--if what you actually have is an HD XL, a TCD658000, say so, and say if you are still using the original WD 1TB drive)?

If you're just copying from a 1TB to a 1TB, why do you think you need jmfs instead of just using

dd_rescue

on the MFS Live cd v1.4, a copy of which you should have burned for your self even if you don't have a TiVo?
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Old 05-30-2014, 09:37 AM   #14
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I know it's been a minute, but thanks, Unitron!!! My TiVo HD's 1TB hard drive was failing after about 7 years (it got slow, and started having trouble recording multiple streams), so I used your very clear instructions and did a bit for bit copy with another 1TB hard drive. (I had one early failure a few years ago in an external 1TB, but I didn't replace it, just left the 1TB internal drive. Now that's failing. Such is life.)

David
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Old 05-30-2014, 07:36 PM   #15
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Happy to have been of service.
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