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Old 01-31-2012, 03:16 PM   #31
turbobozz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbiller View Post
Hmmm. I don't think so. The program is still delivered to the box (i.e., recorded). Its just utilizing IP technology instead of QAM. Its also possible that they (Comcast) use MPEG-4 instead of MPEG-2 to gain more bandwidth and avoid SDV. I'm a bit confused on the technical details. I'm hoping I can get MegaZone to jump in and clarify.
The only way TiVo handles IP tech now is with ~apps.
Thats how the seachange VOD stuff works.

Comcast (and other cable cos) compress lesser desired channels to smaller bitrate envelopes to get more channels in.... even without going to mpeg4.
This is what the satellite companies do... and it's why Comcast, etc. PQ used to be better than mpeg2 satellite.... and why FiOS PQ used to (still is?) be better than Comcast, etc.
There's obviously other ways to fit more channels in... but the final form coming into your house right now is not IP with few exceptions (like FiOS VOD, ATT, SeaChange VOD).
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:14 PM   #32
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Charter, Worcester, MA:
CableCARD $2/month each
Tuning adapters - free

As for the question of content being delivered over IP - I believe TiVo's hardware could do that, it just doesn't do it today outside of 'apps'. But the HW is there and software is fungible. They could do it like SDV. When you tune an SDV channel the TiVo is smart enough to know it has to use the Tuning Adapter to make a special request for the channel. For IP delivered channels I'd expect it'd just have a new branch on the decision tree and for those channels it'd make an IP request for the content over broadband. I could see the server info being transparently configured via the one-way data channel that is enabled by CableCARD. That's used today for configuring SDV, and it is used on cable SDVs and tru2way devices to configure the server info.

As for glitches - no more than QAM. I know I've gone on about this before on other forums, like InvestorVillage, but this should NOT be compared to Internet services like Netflix or Amazon. IP != Internet. A private IP network is a very different beast with very different parameters. The content would be coming from MSO servers, probably local edge servers just as OnDemand content is delivered today. Same infrastructure, same content, just IP carrier instead of QAM. The one difference would be the local network within the home, but MSOs might insist on MoCA just as Verizon does today, and not a customer-run LAN.

MSOs are moving to IP delivery. Verizon has made it clear that they intend to take FiOS all-IP and drop QAM over time. Comcast has also indicated they would like to go all-IP over time. It just makes sense for them to do so, they already need to run IP networks for the new types of services they're introducing and they may as well drop QAM and only maintain the IP system.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:00 PM   #33
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One more question for the group. What credit or discount, if any, is your cable operator providing since you are bringing your own retail box?
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:11 PM   #34
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Cox Arizona - None

Packages do not include the cost of equipment.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:24 PM   #35
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Cox Arizona - None

Packages do not include the cost of equipment.
Interesting. Thanks. My providers packages include one non-DVR STB so they provide an $8.00 credit for consumers who do not receive the box.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:37 PM   #36
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My providers packages include one non-DVR STB so they provide an $8.00 credit for consumers who do not receive the box.
... except I can never find that explicitly listed on my statement.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:54 PM   #37
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... except I can never find that explicitly listed on my statement.
Windracer, good point. I had to compare my statement to a friend's statement to see the $8.00 delta. I also heard it verbally from BHN but I wanted to verify.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:39 AM   #38
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Comcast - Staunton, VA

None as the Digital Preferred package here does not include equipment. This year's price guide was updated with a footnote stating so as well probably due to the credit.

Scott
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:55 AM   #39
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One more question for the group. What credit or discount, if any, is your cable operator providing since you are bringing your own retail box?
Zero. Verizon FiOS here charges $20/month for a Multi-Room DVR, $15/month for a regular DVR.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:59 PM   #40
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Interesting. So it looks like BHN is the only cable operator that bundles a set top box in their pricing.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:56 PM   #41
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WOW!! SO they charge for the cable card AND the tuning adapter?
Yeah, I've never heard of a provider charging for a Tuning Adapter. And that's not exactly how the cable industry pitched the solution way back when... Pretty twisted. "Rent this CableCARD. BUT if you really want to view all the channels your digital subscription offers, you'll also have to rent this additional box."
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:08 AM   #42
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Yeah, I've never heard of a provider charging for a Tuning Adapter. And that's not exactly how the cable industry pitched the solution way back when... Pretty twisted. "Rent this CableCARD. BUT if you really want to view all the channels your digital subscription offers, you'll also have to rent this additional box."
Thanks everyone for your feedback on Tuning Adapters, CableCARD cost, etc. I just filed another letter to the FCC as a comment on the 97-80 proceeding.

Please see this link if your interested in reading.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/80467547/B...iling-Feb-2012
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:23 PM   #43
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This tuning adapter thread is pissing me off. Well tuning adapters, not the actual thread or posters. I'm percolating a post. In the meantime, I went through some old emails. I had asked TiVo, Inc if they could determine how often my Cox TA was rebooting...

Quote:
For the time period between 10/22 00:00 GMT and the latest 11/02 10:00 GMT there are 22 occurrences.
Fortunately, I'm off Cox and supposedly Cisco TAs are more reliable these days. But having to pay for a second set-top box to use a first is maddening (when CableCARD was intended to eliminate such shenanigans).

EDIT: The year was 2010, fyi. By 2011 I'd moved on to FiOS for TiVo nirvana.

Last edited by davezatz : 02-04-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 02-04-2012, 07:36 PM   #44
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I thought Sam might be confused, surely Bright House couldn't be charging for a flakey tuning adapter and thought maybe it was an AO fee of some sort. But he sent me a copy of his bill (thank you!) and sure enough, there it is. It seems like in some cases BH will waive the fee the first year and/or if you complain enough. Here's an image I'll run hopefully tomorrow with my corresponding post. Maybe I'm just tilting at windmills.


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Old 02-04-2012, 08:00 PM   #45
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Yep, I just came off of my free year of a TA from Brighthouse (same area as sbiller) so I can confirm they definitely charge extra for them!
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Old 02-05-2012, 04:35 AM   #46
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Great job, sbiller. We need more of these kind of consumer oriented filings to deliver the message to the FCC that MSOs will continue to resist their efforts to set a level playing field until they leave no more room for them maneuver.

They need to either proceed with AllVid rulemaking in a way that gives MSOs no room for sabotage or revisit their CableCARD rules.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:46 AM   #47
sbiller
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ZatzNotFunny: The Best & Worst Cable Companies (For TiVo Owners)

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-02/...r-tivo-owners/
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:39 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewman View Post
Gwinnett County, GA - Charter
$3 - cable card
Free - TA
This is interesting, I'm in Gwinnett with Charter-
Cablecard $2
TA $2
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:55 PM   #49
sbiller
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Smile Tuning Adapter on Bright House now FREE!

https://twitter.com/#!/davezatz/stat...56989204606976
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:02 PM   #50
davezatz
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Originally Posted by sbiller View Post
Bright House's customer care Twitter account double confirms:

https://twitter.com/#!/BrightHouseCa...58908442615808

Quote:
@davezatz That's right! By mid April Tuning Adapters will no longer require a monthly cost. Thanks for spreading the word. -Carlos

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Old 04-12-2012, 06:07 PM   #51
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Great!

I noticed that the fee went up from $3.80 last month to $4.00 this month. Guess they are squeezing me for every last bit before they drop that cost.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:37 PM   #52
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Cablevision:
Cablecards - $2 each
TAs - Free (I have 3)
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:02 PM   #53
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Question: How much do I pay monthly for my SDV Tuning Adapter?

Answer: $0 to the cable company and $2.00 to the electric company.

My Cisco STA1520 is a real energy hog considering it doesn't actually do much. It uses 9 watts of electricity (as measured by a kill-a-watt). At 35 cents a kilowatt hour, that comes out to about $25 a year.

For reference, my wireless router uses less electricity and does a lot more.

It seems rather disingenuous for the FCC to mandate cable cards, but the cable companies to require an energy hog device to use that cable card. I think the FCC needs to threaten cable providers to provide more energy efficient tuning adapters or else they'll allow companies like tivo to install tuning adapters in the tivo machines.

As a related matter, the issue of inefficient tuning adapters has been presented to the FCC (as evident in the October 14, 2010 order, paragraph 12) and they haven't done anything.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:10 PM   #54
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One more question for the group. What credit or discount, if any, is your cable operator providing since you are bringing your own retail box?
None. I'm not eligible for any of the bundles as I'm supplying my own equipment. So, my cost to Time Warner is MORE. I'd be better off paying for their box in a bundle and just putting their box in the basement someplace.

-- Time Warner Central New York. --
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:46 PM   #55
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With mine (Charter Cable) the adapters are not charged for and the cable cards are - first one free and $2 for the second one.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:16 PM   #56
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Knology in Huntsville, Alabama doesn't even know what a Tuner Adapter is.
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:00 AM   #57
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Charter Cable in Knoxville, TN:
  • $2.00 per month, per cable card (first one free)
  • $5.00 per month for HD content, per cable card
  • Tuning Adapters are free

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Old 08-04-2012, 04:56 PM   #58
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I just switched from Time Warner to Grande CATV. For years under TWC, my CableCards were $2.95, then they dropped the price to $1.95. Three TAs were free. Unfortunately, Grande charges $2.99 for CabeCards, and with 2 S3 TiVos and 1 THD, that hurts. OTOH, they do provide a TiVo Premier at no additional cost. ('Piece of garbage, really.) They don't support SDV, unfortunately.

Even with the additional CC cost, however, Grande is cheaper and provides much better internet service.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:16 PM   #59
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Reliable Tuning Adapter: Priceless (but not available)
Mine weren't perfectly reliable, but they were fairly so. 'Certainly far more reliable than any Windows PC. In over three years they only failed to record about a dozen shows that were not on again shortly.

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Charging for a TA has been very rare. I wonder if it is a reaction to the recent FCC BYOB regulation? Maybe the logic is: "If you get a discount for not using our STB or VCR, you should be charged for any other box we furnish"
No, it goes back to the genesis of the TA. At the time CableLabs was desperately trying to put together a solution for downloadable security, but it was clear they could not get it working any time soon - soon meaning 2 years or more. At the same time, the 3rd party manufacturers were pushing hard for the FCC to accept DCR+, which could have been ratified immediately and implemented upon FCC demand within 6 months. At the same time, TiVo, TiVo owners, and some 3rd party manufacturers were pressing CableLabs and the FCC to come up with a solution for SDV in UDCP devices.

CableLabs was Terrified that the FCC would demand the CATV companies implement DCR+, since it would destroy not only their plans for downloadable security and their long term deployment strategy, but also completely destroy the control they covet over content deployment and subscriber activity. With that in mind, they collaborated with TiVo and certain other manufacturers to come up with the TA in order to forestall an FCC decision in favor of DCR+. Due to completely obtuse reasoning, they chose the worst available design: a USB based TA.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:25 PM   #60
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My Cisco STA1520 is a real energy hog considering it doesn't actually do much. It uses 9 watts of electricity (as measured by a kill-a-watt). At 35 cents a kilowatt hour, that comes out to about $25 a year.
Yeah, they do put out the heat a bit. The embedded RF amplifier doesn't help.

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I think the FCC needs to threaten cable providers to provide more energy efficient tuning adapters or else they'll allow companies like tivo to install tuning adapters in the tivo machines.
TiVo would never do that. It would be stupid. They would have to try, with very little success, to deliver each type of resulting TiVo model to each municipality using the particular TA in question. They would also have to field thousands of complaints from disgruntled owners who changed CATV companies, or moved to another city. They would be unable to do anything for those plaintiffs except give them a new TiVo.

Last edited by lrhorer : 08-04-2012 at 06:40 PM.
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