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Old 12-07-2011, 12:49 AM   #5491
jmelan
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sorry, not trying to accuse you of anything, it just seems hard to defend Time Warner unless you really want to. I can't blame you for being pessimistic after how much of a disaster cablecard has been so far.

Since the FCC is the enforcing agency of these regulations, I would hope that their stated intention in the current regulations is likely to be backed up, but maybe not - at least we can try.

It does look like the FCC used the comments or very similar ones from the referenced thread at least in part to craft the current guidelines, which is a monumental step forward if adhered to.

Why don't we try and get a sticky with an FCC complaint form letter posted so that it is more likely that people can submit a complaint without too much trouble or confusion.

For example,

Reasons for an FCC complaint:

1. You are paying for any TWC equipment that you do not use or want to use, and you use a cablecard device.

2. You filled out the BYOB form (which is a violation in itself) and have not received a credit, or the credit is significantly less than the amount charged for a standalone box.

3. TWC has excluded you from any package or bundle due to your use of a cablecard rather than TWC equipment.

4. TWC has imposed any additional service charge on cablecard customers in your area aside from the $2.00 - $2.50 charge for the cable cards.

5. TWC did not tell you that self install was an option, or TWC refused to provide a self install kit (after August 8, 2011).

The form letter can then include sections to include each situation and each member can choose what to include for their situation.

This can then be crossposted to avsforum, ceton, silicondust, hauppaugge, etc. in order to mobilize a larger number of users.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:08 AM   #5492
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I know it pains most readers of this thread to hear anything in defense of TWC in regard to this BYOB situation, but consider this:

They have to furnish Tuning Adapters free of charge to a large proportion of their TiVo customers. These appear to be a box with production cost that would be similar to a STB but the true per-unit cost (including fixed up-front engineering costs) is probably higher than an STB because of the much lower volume of TA's. Perhaps in fairness the BYOB credit should be reduced by the cost of the TA -- which might reduce it to nothing.

But then we don't have any evidence they've ever given a BYOB credit.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:46 AM   #5493
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For an example of how slippery things get when you accuse TWC of violating BYOB, see this recent FCC filing by TWC:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/docume...?id=7021708586
Note their response as follows:
Quote:
For instance, although the customer claimed he
was told that leasing a CableCARD instead of a set-top box would result in a price increase—
which forms the basis of TiVo’s allegation of price discrimination in its letter—TWC’s records
show that the customer in fact is receiving a discount on his monthly bill of $7.75, consistent
with 47 C.F.R. § 76.1205(b).
Now I have to wonder: Does the customer's invoice explicitly list a $7.75 discount? And how would anyone other than TWC determine he was actually paying that much less than another customer with the same service using a STB?

Also, the letter is laughable in the way it insinuates that instances of wrong information being supplied by TWC reps to TiVo users are isolated.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:25 AM   #5494
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I think what's being confused here are two distinct things.

I read the new FCC rules to read that IF a cable co is offering a bundle that includes a STB they must offer CableCARD customers a refund based on the included "price" of that STB.

But I don't read that to infer that cable companies MUST offer all bundles to all customers, regardless of their use of a CableCARD.

Just by saying "if you're doing X, you must do Y" does not prevent the cable card from saying, "we don't want to do X".

I read the FCC rules to prevent customers from paying for equipment they're not using, and to prevent customers with the same package - and paying the same rate - from getting different services.

But I don't read it to mean that the FCC is saying that every customer must be offered the same packages, regardless of their hardware requirements.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:29 AM   #5495
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Also, just to clarify:

I am NOT receiving a BYOB discount because I do not have any bundle (I was told in July of 2010 I did not quality - I was a new customer) that includes a STB.

I pay significantly more than STB customers I know with similar channel lineups.

I have filled out FCC complaint forms on TWC... in relation to my SDV box not working 100% of the time. Of the 3 complaints I filled out, TWC called me back on one of them. I tried once to return the call and got a voice mail. I never tried to call back again and neither did they. No nothing really happened.

I've complained to CSRs about the same SDV situation but all they can recommend is sending a truck roll which we all know will not fix the problem at all.

My missed SDV tunes are very rare (1-2 month, if that) so I can live with it. But it still sucks and I would love it to work 100% of the time - like it should.

But I guess if I had their STB I'd probably miss that many recordings for other stupid reasons since their box sucks.
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:22 AM   #5496
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I think that the exclusion from package deals is a major form of discrimination and specifically referenced here (http://www.hallikainen.com/FccRules/2012/76/1205/)

Quote:
( 2 ) For any bundled offer combining service and an operator-supplied
navigation device
into a single fee, including any bundled offer
providing a discount for the purchase of multiple services
, such
provider shall make such offer available without discrimination to any
customer that owns a navigation device
, and, to the extent the customer
uses such navigation device in lieu of the operator-supplied equipment
included in that bundled offer, shall further offer such customer a
discount from such offer equal to an amount not less than the monthly
rental fee reasonably allocable to the lease of the operator-supplied
navigation device included with that offer
. For purposes of this
section, in determining what is "reasonably allocable," the Commission
will consider in its evaluation whether the allocation is consistent
with one or more of the following factors:


Last edited by jmelan : 12-07-2011 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:32 AM   #5497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
For an example of how slippery things get when you accuse TWC of violating BYOB, see this recent FCC filing by TWC:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/docume...?id=7021708586
Note their response as follows:

Now I have to wonder: Does the customer's invoice explicitly list a $7.75 discount? And how would anyone other than TWC determine he was actually paying that much less than another customer with the same service using a STB?

Also, the letter is laughable in the way it insinuates that instances of wrong information being supplied by TWC reps to TiVo users are isolated.
Exactly what my complaint is, TWC told me that my current package would be invalidated and my rate would go up by $20 - $30 per month if I try and return my equipment.

They may get away with this once, but the FCC will not fall for it over and over again, especially if the reasons they were able to argue this one are preliminarily addressed.

In this case, I would guess that they are claiming that the normal package discount counts as the BYOB discount, which it obviously does not.

Last edited by jmelan : 12-07-2011 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:03 AM   #5498
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Im always glad I come to this fourm everytime I think about getting a Tivo. I read all the hoops & hassles one has to go through to get a stupid dvr & again realize, its not worth the stress. Thanks all
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:45 AM   #5499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelan View Post
Exactly what my complaint is, TWC told me that my current package would be invalidated and my rate would go up by $20 - $30 per month if I try and return my equipment.
Cable companies make a lot of money on equipment rentals, so they want to force you to to rent their equipment whether you need it or not (or whether it provides value for you or just serves their needs, like a tuning adapter). It's similar to cellular providers insisting that if you want to use a PDA-style cell phone, even one you purchase elsewhere with no subsidy, you must sign up for a data plan, whether you intend to use it or not.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:59 AM   #5500
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Originally Posted by frankincensed View Post
Im always glad I come to this fourm everytime I think about getting a Tivo. I read all the hoops & hassles one has to go through to get a stupid dvr & again realize, its not worth the stress. Thanks all
Interesting perspective. You do realize that "all the hoops & hassles" are put there by the cable companies, right? When I read about them, I thank my lucky stars that my TiVo is receiving free and trouble-free OTA only. Since the digital conversion, more and more viewers have been enjoying a golden age for over-the-air broadcast TV, and that should continue unless the cable lobby can pay legislators enough to cripple or kill their competition.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:08 AM   #5501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L David Matheny View Post
Interesting perspective. You do realize that "all the hoops & hassles" are put there by the cable companies, right? When I read about them, I thank my lucky stars that my TiVo is receiving free and trouble-free OTA only. Since the digital conversion, more and more viewers have been enjoying a golden age for over-the-air broadcast TV, and that should continue unless the cable lobby can pay legislators enough to cripple or kill their competition.
Yes, I do recognize its mostly the cable companies that cause the stress. Unfortunately, I dont have an old school antenna (and not willing to put the bucks into getting one) and the majority of the shows I watch are not OTA broadcast stations, so Im stuck with having to go the cable route
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:49 PM   #5502
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Syfy, usahd, and bravohd not longer working

Syfy, usahd, and bravohd no longer working on my tivo. It states the channels are not authorized. Cable card was changed but no improvement. TWC states the problem is with tivo. Tivo doesn't know what to do. Anyone else have this problem?
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:00 PM   #5503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sghrush
Syfy, usahd, and bravohd no longer working on my tivo. It states the channels are not authorized. Cable card was changed but no improvement. TWC states the problem is with tivo. Tivo doesn't know what to do. Anyone else have this problem?
I had a similar problem. It's a problem on TWC's end. Escalate until they fix it. Worked for me.
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:15 PM   #5504
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In general - "temporarily" unavailable channels

Ok, so I've been with TiVo and twc for over a year now. Something goes wrong with this bulls@&t every week. It always gets fixed eventually, but then it gets f&$#d up again a week later. Do I need to dump TiVo, twc, or both? This is ridiculous.
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:49 PM   #5505
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You need to make a lot of noise to TW and demand they fix the problems PERMANENTLY. Ask for discounts every time something goes wrong. Demand knowledgeable service techs. Ask for explanations of why problems persist. Write letters to their supervisors and corporate HQ. Make noise.
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:44 PM   #5506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fofer View Post
I had a similar problem. It's a problem on TWC's end. Escalate until they fix it. Worked for me.
Is this opinion or fact? Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of TWC but when I experience the "This channel not authorized..." problem, typically a reboot of my Premier TiVo corrects the problem. I am far from being tech savvy but it seems to me that if it were a TWC problem, rebooting TiVo wouldn't correct it.

If this truly is a TWC problem, what do they need to do on their end to fix it.....for good?
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:49 PM   #5507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Bagadonuts View Post
Is this opinion or fact? Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of TWC but when I experience the "This channel not authorized..." problem, typically a reboot of my Premier TiVo corrects the problem. I am far from being tech savvy but it seems to me that if it were a TWC problem, rebooting TiVo wouldn't correct it.

If this truly is a TWC problem, what do they need to do on their end to fix it.....for good?
That message indicates that the cablecard doesn't have authorization to decrypt that channel for you. That is most likely a setup problem in the TWC system. You likely need your account 'balanced' and a balancing hit done. Should be a piece of cake for the cablecard helpdesk to accomplish.
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:50 PM   #5508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Bagadonuts View Post
Is this opinion or fact? Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of TWC but when I experience the "This channel not authorized..." problem, typically a reboot of my Premier TiVo corrects the problem. I am far from being tech savvy but it seems to me that if it were a TWC problem, rebooting TiVo wouldn't correct it.

If this truly is a TWC problem, what do they need to do on their end to fix it.....for good?
In my case, yes, it was a fact. Channels lost when I had tried to upgrade my programming package. Yes, I rebooted hundreds (!) of times. They ran new cables to my house. We're talking 5 or 6 visits over the course of a month. No channels authorized. At one point they blamed the heat, saying it was wearing on the cables and made authorization difficult All along I told them "it's something on your end, in your system." They denied it. They brought my TiVo to another neighborhood to try the cables there. No dice.

When it finally got escalated, the highest tier of tech support saw the typo in my account. Fixed it, and the authorizations I should've had for my channels, and within 5 minutes my channels were back.
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:59 PM   #5509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSIRAID View Post
That message indicates that the cablecard doesn't have authorization to decrypt that channel for you. That is most likely a setup problem in the TWC system. You likely need your account 'balanced' and a balancing hit done. Should be a piece of cake for the cablecard helpdesk to accomplish.
Exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. Thank you SCSIRAID. Now if/when it happens again, I'll know what direction to give the help desk tech.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:14 PM   #5510
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TWC phone tech said they were going away from SDV?

Just got off the phone with TWC first-round tech support (so I think he knows nothing and was just blowing smoke up my...) with an SDV Tuning Adapter problem. They will roll a truck. Whoop-dee.

But, he did say that they (TWC) had heard the complaining and would be moving away from SDV in 2012.

Has anyone else heard this? I hate to take the word of "Walter" at TWC here in Kansas City.

Hopeful, Danny.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:54 AM   #5511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novojnsn View Post
Just got off the phone with TWC first-round tech support (so I think he knows nothing and was just blowing smoke up my...) with an SDV Tuning Adapter problem. They will roll a truck. Whoop-dee.

But, he did say that they (TWC) had heard the complaining and would be moving away from SDV in 2012.

Has anyone else heard this? I hate to take the word of "Walter" at TWC here in Kansas City.

Hopeful, Danny.
About the only way I could imagine a move away from SDV would be if they dropped all the analog content. I personally dont see that happening any time soon.
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:00 PM   #5512
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Time Warner CableCARD install notes for Austin, TX (January 2012)
  • Already had cable modem from TW
  • Signed up for triple play promotion $90 for 12 months
  • Two install dates set, first for CableCARD and second for phone *DO NOT DO THIS*
  • Installer arrived on time for CC install
  • Installer connected cable to existing coax previously connected to OTA antenna
  • Went back to truck to get DVR and CC. I told him that the DVR shouldn't have been on the equipment list because I have a Tivo.
  • He called his boss and talked for 15 minutes. First didn't think he had a tuning adapter (TA), but called boss again and found one in the truck. Yes, this was his first Tivo install.
  • Yes, this was his first Tivo install
  • I show installer Tivo with open front door for CableCARD.
  • I ask if he wants me to disconnect coax going in to Tivo, and he politely says "no thanks, this is what I am paid for"
  • I come back 5 minutes later and he has the back of the tuning adapter off looking for a slot for the CableCARD
  • I again show him the CC slot on the front of the Tivo
  • CC is a Cisco brand M-card, TA is a Cisco STA1520
  • Installer connected coax from outside to TA, TA coax to Tivo, TA to tivo with USB cable
  • Tivo recognizes CC, installer calls in Host and CC IDs
  • Installer calls boss for directions, told to "scan for channels" in Tivo
  • Checks connections for 15 minutes and realizes that outside cable filter has not been removed
  • Installer removes cable tv filter from outside box, cable connection is live
  • Repeat guided Tivo setup takes 5 minutes
  • CableCARD starts firmware update automatically
  • 2.5 hours have passed and installer has to leave
  • I leave for dinner, return in 2 hours
  • CableCARD is functional, but SDV channels are not working
  • Time Warner support tells me that Tuning Adapter serial is not listed on my account and install ticket is open
  • I read serial to tech, but they are unable to change the account because the equipment is checked out to the installer
  • Install was Saturday, it is now Sunday afternoon.
  • Called CableCard support direct line: 1-866-532-2598
  • Wow, someone at TW who actually knows about CableCARDS and Tivo!!! Not joking, these folks are awesome.
  • TA is still checked out to installer! CC support updates my account info with serial and tells me to call TW on Monday.
  • I call TW on Monday and the TA serial number is now on my account!!!
  • When I get home, TA is not working
  • I call TW again. BTW, all of my calls get routed to internet support regardless of the menu options that I choose.
  • TW support pings TA and it is Authorized!!!
  • I go back to Tivo and check TA diagnostics, no luck.
  • TA has rebooted itself and is no longer Authorized.
  • TA will not stay authorized until original install ticket is closed. This won't happen until next week when the phone install happens!
  • We shall see...

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Old 01-24-2012, 12:11 PM   #5513
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That's just as good as when my CC installer tried to install the CC in my TV even though I had the TiVo pulled out for him from the entertainment center.

Then, after installing the one card (my S3 requires 2 cards) the started to walk down the hall to my bedroom to "look for the other TV to insert the other card in".

Needless to say, it was about 3-4 visits later until everything worked correctly.
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:36 PM   #5514
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I am happily relieved that TWCable in my area doesn't use SDV yet. When/if that happens, I've decided I'll drop TWCable in favor of rabbit ears. The extra I pay for digital cable (+1 tier) on top of my broadband internet isn't all that expensive (package is "surf n view") but I don't watch enough TV these days to deal with any SDV hassle. And the little TV I do watch, is on network broadcast. I've checked my antenna and the signal I get for the big channels (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, etc.) is pretty darn good.
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Old 01-24-2012, 04:02 PM   #5515
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I am happily relieved that TWCable in my area doesn't use SDV yet. When/if that happens, I've decided I'll drop TWCable in favor of rabbit ears. The extra I pay for digital cable (+1 tier) on top of my broadband internet isn't all that expensive (package is "surf n view") but I don't watch enough TV these days to deal with any SDV hassle. And the little TV I do watch, is on network broadcast. I've checked my antenna and the signal I get for the big channels (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, etc.) is pretty darn good.
Smart move.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:05 PM   #5516
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Time Warner CableCARD install notes for Austin, TX (January 2012) PART 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thdan View Post
Time Warner CableCARD install notes for Austin, TX (January 2012)
  • Already had cable modem from TW
  • Signed up for triple play promotion $90 for 12 months
  • Two install dates set, first for CableCARD and second for phone *DO NOT DO THIS*
  • Installer arrived on time for CC install
  • Installer connected cable to existing coax previously connected to OTA antenna
  • Went back to truck to get DVR and CC. I told him that the DVR shouldn't have been on the equipment list because I have a Tivo.
  • He called his boss and talked for 15 minutes. First didn't think he had a tuning adapter (TA), but called boss again and found one in the truck. Yes, this was his first Tivo install.
  • Yes, this was his first Tivo install
  • I show installer Tivo with open front door for CableCARD.
  • I ask if he wants me to disconnect coax going in to Tivo, and he politely says "no thanks, this is what I am paid for"
  • I come back 5 minutes later and he has the back of the tuning adapter off looking for a slot for the CableCARD
  • I again show him the CC slot on the front of the Tivo
  • CC is a Cisco brand M-card, TA is a Cisco STA1520
  • Installer connected coax from outside to TA, TA coax to Tivo, TA to tivo with USB cable
  • Tivo recognizes CC, installer calls in Host and CC IDs
  • Installer calls boss for directions, told to "scan for channels" in Tivo
  • Checks connections for 15 minutes and realizes that outside cable filter has not been removed
  • Installer removes cable tv filter from outside box, cable connection is live
  • Repeat guided Tivo setup takes 5 minutes
  • CableCARD starts firmware update automatically
  • 2.5 hours have passed and installer has to leave
  • I leave for dinner, return in 2 hours
  • CableCARD is functional, but SDV channels are not working
  • Time Warner support tells me that Tuning Adapter serial is not listed on my account and install ticket is open
  • I read serial to tech, but they are unable to change the account because the equipment is checked out to the installer
  • Install was Saturday, it is now Sunday afternoon.
  • Called CableCard support direct line: 1-866-532-2598
  • Wow, someone at TW who actually knows about CableCARDS and Tivo!!! Not joking, these folks are awesome.
  • TA is still checked out to installer! CC support updates my account info with serial and tells me to call TW on Monday.
  • I call TW on Monday and the TA serial number is now on my account!!!
  • When I get home, TA is not working
  • I call TW again. BTW, all of my calls get routed to internet support regardless of the menu options that I choose.
  • TW support pings TA and it is Authorized!!!
  • I go back to Tivo and check TA diagnostics, no luck.
  • TA has rebooted itself and is no longer Authorized.
  • TA will not stay authorized until original install ticket is closed. This won't happen until next week when the phone install happens!
  • We shall see...
  • Installer arrived at 3:20 for a 1-3pm window.
  • Combo cable modem digital phone box install went smoothly
  • After reminding installer to complete number port, phone install complete
  • Tuning adapter still not working
  • Tuning adapter getting authorized, but reboots after a few minutes
  • Installer told me that tuning adapter will not work until tomorrow
  • Installer told me that the "tuning adapter hierarchy" was set incorrectly and that the problem had nothing to do with the state of the install ticket. He said that the Time Warner tech support didn't know what they were talking about...
  • Installer left with tuning adapter still not functional
  • I called local tech support to verify installer story. They were not sure what to do, so I gave them the CableCARD hotline number
  • Tech waited on hold for 10 minutes and told me that his supervisor told him that I can call the CableCARD self install hotline, but he could not hold any longer.
  • @TWCableHelp replied to a Direct Message on twitter and said that it takes 24 hours to provision a tuning adapter.
  • I will update tomorrow on the tuning adapter status.

Update 2/1/2012:

Still not working. The tuning adapter is rebooting after the provisioning appears to work and clearing the authorization. TW is finally escalating to someone who knows how the tuning adapter works

Finished call with tech. No dice, tuning adapter will not stay authorized. Scheduled another visit from TW to figure out whether the problem is with the signal or the tuning adapter hardware. This will be the third visit.

Update 2/3/2012:

Still not working.
  • Replaced tuning adapter box
  • New tuning adapter didn't work because Sub Expires was "Expired"
  • National CC office called, successfully reprovisioned
  • Tuning status "Invalid" (PowerKEY Information, Next in TA Diagnostics)
  • RDC value going from -60dBmV to 33-36dBmV
  • Tuning Adapter in reboot/restart loop
  • Unplugged USB cable so that Tivo doesn't pop up TA alert message every few minutes
  • Time Warner employee coming on Saturday to troubleshoot line problem


Last edited by 5thdan : 02-03-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:16 AM   #5517
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So basically they said, "Oh, it's not working but I have to run now" and "Oh, it's not working but I have to take another call now"

And you LET THEM get away with this crap?!

When they are AT YOUR HOUSE, do NOT LET THEM LEAVE UNTIL IT'S WORKING TO YOUR SATISFACTION! Period!

I'm also concerned that your installer was not Time Warner. I would never accept a 3rd party installer. They're more ignorant than the Time Warner bozos and that's really saying something.

Call a supervisor. Call 5 of them. Call their district HQ. Tweet them like crazy.

DO NOT SHUT UP UNTIL THEY FIX THIS FOR YOU. IT IS THEIR JOB THAT YOU'RE PAYING THEM TO DO!
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:03 AM   #5518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwoody222 View Post
When they are AT YOUR HOUSE, do NOT LET THEM LEAVE UNTIL IT'S WORKING TO YOUR SATISFACTION! Period!
That's certainly easier said than done. I've been in that situation. What do you suggest we do when this happens? Tie them down, hold them against their will?
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:24 AM   #5519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwoody222 View Post
So basically they said, "Oh, it's not working but I have to run now" and "Oh, it's not working but I have to take another call now"

And you LET THEM get away with this crap?!

When they are AT YOUR HOUSE, do NOT LET THEM LEAVE UNTIL IT'S WORKING TO YOUR SATISFACTION! Period!

I'm also concerned that your installer was not Time Warner. I would never accept a 3rd party installer. They're more ignorant than the Time Warner bozos and that's really saying something.

Call a supervisor. Call 5 of them. Call their district HQ. Tweet them like crazy.

DO NOT SHUT UP UNTIL THEY FIX THIS FOR YOU. IT IS THEIR JOB THAT YOU'RE PAYING THEM TO DO!
I am not sure if you can request a Time Warner employee for installs in Austin. If so, that would be the way to go. Time Warner has no incentive to keep CableCARD users happy. If they did, more people might actually start using them. This strategy has worked well for them for the past 3-4 years, so I wouldn't expect it to change anytime soon. I wonder if there is a financial incentive for the contractors to "convert" CableCARD users to TW DVR users.
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:20 PM   #5520
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5thdan- Has the tuning adaptor provisioned for you?
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