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Old 05-27-2011, 12:41 PM   #1
crxssi
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"Group no longer needed" bug

There is a looooong standing SDUI bug that is so old, it not only affected the Premiere but also affected the HD/S3 unit too for years. I call it the "Group no longer needed" bug.

This happens when you are deleting shows in a folder, and you are not done deleting everything, but a message pops up saying "This group is no longer needed and will be removed" or similar. Then you are thrown out of the folder to the parent directory, usually you will then go back into the NOT REALLY DELETED folder so you can resume your viewing or housekeeping.

It is annoying and I reported it several times to TiVo on the phone on the HD and on the Premiere. Believe it or not, it is STILL not fixed in 14.8! It just happened to me again.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=342623
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb....php?p=5248175
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb....php?p=5472151
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb....php?p=4916795
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:50 PM   #2
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I've seen that, never thought of it as a bug until just now. I was leaning towards, "That's just a little weird." Kinda like the closed caption thing..... So it's a bug, eh? I am glad it's not just me.
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Old 05-27-2011, 01:59 PM   #3
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Yes, very annoying.
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Old 05-27-2011, 03:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrumpneuma View Post
I have observed the same. Usually it does not kick back to the parent folder. When it happens to me I usually wait for 5-20 seconds and the list repopulates.
You have your choice- you can wait for a while (does seem like 10 sec or something) and it will put you back where you were. OR you can press the left arrow and you will get kicked back up a level.

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I'm not sure but didn't the S2 also suffer from this classic well documented easily reproduced bug?
I don't believe I ever remember it being on the S2... unless it was introduced to it after I left that platform. Of course, my memory isn't that great anyway.
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:32 PM   #5
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I thought this was going to be about the "Group no longer needed" screen that shows up when you actually delete all the shows in the folder.
I consider THAT a bug as well.
Hey Tivo, I know that the group is no longer needed, I just deleted all the shows in it. Just take me back to the NPL!

ETA: Pertaining to the other issue, I have seen this happen but I've never been kicked back to the NPL. My shows usually re-appear after a few seconds.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:58 PM   #6
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Give TiVo a break. They have a mere 514 employees. You can't expect them to find time to fix bugs while still taking care of all their other responsibilities, can you?
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin View Post
Give TiVo a break. They have a mere 514 employees. You can't expect them to find time to fix bugs while still taking care of all their other responsibilities, can you?
Are you trying to be facetious?
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:28 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
Hey Tivo, I know that the group is no longer needed, I just deleted all the shows in it. Just take me back to the NPL!
While *I* somewhat agree with you, this specific issue (which is DIFFERENT of course from the absolutely 100% bug of it WRONGLY saying the group is no longer needed) is a reasonable accommodation to make things "simple" for tech-phobic people. They don't understand these are not like folders on a computer, they're virtual collections. (That is, that's why it warns you something like "This item will be deleted from all groups.")
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by mattack View Post
They don't understand these are not like folders on a computer, they're virtual collections. (That is, that's why it warns you something like "This item will be deleted from all groups.")
Actually, on Linux/Unix systems, directories (or "folders", if you like) are also "virtual" collections. Directories just provide a name and a reference to an identifier ("inode") for the file. Multiple directories can have links with different names to the same file, and none are more "real" than any other. "Removing" a file on Unix just removes the link in a particular directory, and the file system will only actually delete the file if there are no more links to it. This is a different from the delete operation on a TiVo, which removes the file from all folders.
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Old 05-29-2011, 08:09 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by crxssi View Post
Are you trying to be facetious?
It's hard to tell anymore.
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:37 PM   #11
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I remember this bug as being on my first S2 some 10 years ago as well as my second S2 (humax) and third S2 (dual tuner) and currently both Premieres. Never had the other in-between units so can't speak to those but suffice it to say its yet another bug that for some unknown reason Tivo just will not fix. I think its their policy to deny there are any bugs thus they can't fix them.
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Old 06-03-2011, 05:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by crxssi View Post
Are you trying to be facetious?
Yes I was trying to be facetious. Perhaps I should have appended an emoticon.

For the life of me I can't fathom what TiVo is doing with 514 full time employees, unless most of them are in customer service/support. Because TiVo doesn't seem to accomplish very much. I've worked at startups that have, IMO, accomplished more with a very small fraction of that headcount.

It seems like TiVo has transitioned from nimble startup that created a (for its time) outstanding, breakthru product, to a fossilized dinosaur that isn't capable of producing more than "strategic announcements" with TBD dates for delivering concrete results. While their actual product development is very slow, and simple bugs fester for years and years.
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:36 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by CharlesH View Post
Actually, on Linux/Unix systems, directories (or "folders", if you like) are also "virtual" collections. Directories just provide a name and a reference to an identifier ("inode") for the file. Multiple directories can have links with different names to the same file, and none are more "real" than any other. "Removing" a file on Unix just removes the link in a particular directory, and the file system will only actually delete the file if there are no more links to it. This is a different from the delete operation on a TiVo, which removes the file from all folders.
No, UNIX directories are NOT virtual. Your explanation (which I already know) is COMPLETELY different from what Tivo shows you -- which is VIRTUAL groups, which do not exist on disk..
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:22 PM   #14
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OK, this is a flashback.... This bug *was* apparently fixed for the SDUI in 14.9. I suspect they "fixed" it in the 14.9 SDUI by forcing that horrible new "Please Wait" dialog between every delete (nothing like fixing a problem with something even worse).

In 20.2, they removed the "Please Wait" dialog in the SDUI, so acts like pre-14.8. I do not know yet if that brought the bug back to the SDUI.

But I just discovered that in the HDUI in 20.2, THE BUG IS THERE NOW IN THE HDUI! If you are in a folder and start rapidly deleting programs with the "clear" key, you might randomly get a message saying "This group is empty" and stuff about it will remove the no-longer needed folder, even though programs do remain in the folder. And the user is dumped one folder-level higher. It did it to me three times in one day!
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:27 PM   #15
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I hope you call Tivo and explain the bug to them.. (they really should have an online bug reporting system)
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mattack View Post
I hope you call Tivo and explain the bug to them.. (they really should have an online bug reporting system)
Well, I added into the changelog. Hopefully they are monitoring it....
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=481338

Not sure if it really is a change or not, since I could never stomach the HDUI long enough to matter. Now that it is much improved, I am spending more time in it (plus the changelog kinda forces it on me as I attempt to verify everything I can).

Hopefully the rest of you will report it if you see it happen in either the SDUI or HDUI. Remember, it only occurs when you delete multiple (several) programs as fast as you can. Usually when you are trying to clear out a bunch of suggestion recordings.
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