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Old 11-12-2011, 10:25 AM   #421
trackie999
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The underlying issue is a deadlock of some sort. When TA is enabled garbage collection/indexing & scheduler come to a halt (running but extremely slowly).

I tried a couple different things to come to this conclusion:
1) I tried to de-prioritize SiHost (TA process is a child of this process) and increase priority on dbgc (select sub-processes I figured out from when TA is not connected) but CPU utilization stayed the same (basically 0% util).

2) Kicked off completely separate dbgc process tree, (thus bypassing Tivo's process tree/scheduling structure). Still no CPU activity, this makes me think dbgc is sitting idle waiting for data to arrive.

I've been looking at routerplus to capture communications between Tivo processes, but I'm afraid I just don't have enough time to reverse engineer it. (I have yet to find any documentation so I'm basically starting from scratch)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
The reason I asked the question is dvr_dude suggested that I connect my TiVo-S3 to the internet, via a RJ45 connection to a wireless adapter. Instead of a USB wireless adapter. I'm guessing he was thinking that there was a bottle neck in system's incoming data flow... some how causing "our problem."

So the info above, some hard wired and one hard wired to a wireless router answers my question.
Eccles has such a setup and he has the "Guide Data" problem too.
So much for the idea that the data was not transferring fast enough over the USB connection.
This also would indicate that TiVo's USB connections are not conflicting with each other.

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Old 11-12-2011, 11:59 AM   #422
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this problem started for me again

I permanently delete all deleted shows. Unplugged my tivo from the internet. and unplugged the tuning adapter. I hope it fixes the problem.

My tivo is only going to record shows from the antenna anyway for the next 7 hours. since theres nothing on cable to record today. so i might as well unplug the tuning adapteror and see what happens.

I hope this works
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Old 11-12-2011, 12:05 PM   #423
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I am not sure this is related to your problem but you may want to look at
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=474298
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Old 11-12-2011, 02:01 PM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernardski View Post
I am not sure this is related to your problem but you may want to look at
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=474298
Looks like the same problem. Not sure if you have read the whole thread or not, but we have a simple fix. You just need to disconnect the Tuning Adapter for a few hours for GC to complete. You can do this manually, but it is most convenient to just put it on a timer for about 4 hours a day when nothing is scheduled to be recorded.

I also have a TWC DVR, and I'm much happier with a Tivo HD with this kludge fix than I am with the TWC DVR. YMMV.

But I also am totally frustrated with Tivo at this point.
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Old 11-13-2011, 04:07 AM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
Who here among us, with the guide data running out problem, has their TiVo hard wired to the internet?
Mine is using wired Ethernet. My 'rule' is 'if don't move, it gets wired not wireless'
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Old 11-13-2011, 09:32 AM   #426
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Quote:
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Mine is using wired Ethernet. My 'rule' is 'if don't move, it gets wired
Good rule.

However if you are (still) having the guide data problem, with a wired eithernet connection. That eliminates the TiVo USB system from the equation.

So far the $10 (Ace Hardware) timer set to turn tuning adapter off at 0100hrs and back on a 0400hrs. Proves (for me) to be a reliable solution... the GC date changes every other day in the 0300 hour time frame.
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:28 AM   #427
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This worked i guess it was unplging the tuning adaptor for 4 hours that fixed it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tootal2 View Post
I permanently delete all deleted shows. Unplugged my tivo from the internet. and unplugged the tuning adapter. I hope it fixes the problem.

My tivo is only going to record shows from the antenna anyway for the next 7 hours. since theres nothing on cable to record today. so i might as well unplug the tuning adapteror and see what happens.

I hope this works

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Old 11-13-2011, 12:43 PM   #428
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Quote:
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This worked i guess it was unplging the tuning adaptor for 4 hours that fixed it.
Time for a timer....
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Old 11-13-2011, 09:17 PM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceA View Post
Mine is using wired Ethernet. My 'rule' is 'if don't move, it gets wired not wireless'
And the rule that goes with it is, if it don't move, it gets a fixed IP address.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:18 AM   #430
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And the rule that goes with it is, if it don't move, it gets a fixed IP address.
I haven't done that yet but it's a good rule.

I've noticed here that if I reset my TA enough times it eventually gets into a state where things work fine (GC happens daily, suggestions work, etc) but that only seems to happen when I've got a few channels missing. Looks like it's a trade-off. Personally, I'm OK with missing a few channels but not having to keep such a close eye on everything else. I wonder why it works that way but that seems to be the case.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:55 PM   #431
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Deleting the apple free partition

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Default swap partition size depends on the model. The HD is, indeed, 128MB.

As I understand it, TiVo uses the swap partition if it gets in trouble and you have to run one of the Kickstarts to straighten things out, and if you've got a larger than stock drive, it might need more swap than stock.

You can copy the stock drive to a larger one with either WinMFS or the MFS Live cd and both offer an option to choose a different swap partition size.

Problem is, even if you also expand, adding 2 more MFS partitions, there always seems to be some left over space at the end of the drive, and that gets written to the Apple Partition Map as an Apple Free partition.

jmfs thinks that is a real partition and adds the one partition it adds after it, which apparently makes the TiVo unable to see it.

The only solution I've been able to think of so far is to get another 160GB drive with a few more LBA than the stock WD drive (maybe a Maxtor would work, they've got an 80GB that's a little bit bigger than the WD 80's), and copy with as big a swap as it'll let you so as to fill the drive and eliminate the Apple Free partition, and then use jmfs to copy that drive to a 1 or 2TB and expand.

I tried copying the original 160GB WD to a 200GB Maxtor I have on hand, setting the swap to about 40GB, just to see if I could get rid of the Apple Free, and I tried doing it with a 1GB swap and expanding, but even adjusting the swap size 1MB at a time, I could never find the magic combination that gave me a drive without an Apple Free partition on the end.
I posted about deleting the apple free partition in the TiVo Upgrade Center post #304 back in October. I think it may help. Expanding my swap space did not help with the S03 error, it came back today.

Last edited by teiland : 11-14-2011 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:16 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teiland View Post
I posted about deleting the apple free partition in the TiVo Upgrade Center post #304 back in October. I think it may help. And, expanding my swap space did not help with the S03 error. I came back today.
For the benefit of others, here's the link to that post.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...21#post8758021

It could be that a bigger swap partition doesn't help with the problem that seems to involve an SDV tuning adapter, and needing to power it off at routine intervals, but that there are other circumstances in which it will, and even 1GB of swap is a very small percentage of the overall size of a drive you're likely to use with which to upgrade.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:44 PM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
For the benefit of others, here's the link to that post.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...21#post8758021

It could be that a bigger swap partition doesn't help with the problem that seems to involve an SDV tuning adapter, and needing to power it off at routine intervals, but that there are other circumstances in which it will, and even 1GB of swap is a very small percentage of the overall size of a drive you're likely to use with which to upgrade.
Sorry, I wasn't real clear and mixed up 2 differnet issues. The post from October tells you how to delete the apple free partition at the end of the drive so you can expand your drive with JMFS.

About the S03 error, I have disconnect my tuning adapter and I hope by morning the GC will have run and my TiVo will be back to normal.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:51 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teiland View Post
Sorry, I wasn't real clear and mixed up 2 differnet issues. The post from October tells you how to delete the apple free partition at the end of the drive so you can expand your drive with JMFS.

About the S03 error, I have disconnect my tuning adapter and I hope by morning the GC will have run and my TiVo will be back to normal.
You provided data, swap size doesn't seem to be a factor in this particular problem, which I don't think was established before, and it was something I'd wondered about when I first noticed the postings about the problem.
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:57 AM   #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teiland View Post
About the S03 error, I have disconnect my tuning adapter and I hope by morning the GC will have run and my TiVo will be back to normal.
If that doesn't work. You can try the "channel linup" fix; if that does not work then the "clear and delete season passes and to do list" fix should get rid of S03 error.

See post #72 for channel lineup fix.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:48 PM   #436
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I've set up one of my TivoHD's with 2.5GB swap file to see if that helps, but it made no difference. Here's the link to my original post in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
You provided data, swap size doesn't seem to be a factor in this particular problem, which I don't think was established before, and it was something I'd wondered about when I first noticed the postings about the problem.

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Old 11-16-2011, 08:50 PM   #437
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Success

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
If that doesn't work. You can try the "channel linup" fix; if that does not work then the "clear and delete season passes and to do list" fix should get rid of S03 error.

See post #72 for channel lineup fix.
Disconnecting the TA overnight didn't get the GC going, it was still stuck in August. I tried the "channel lineup" fix and it hung at preparing for 4 hours. I finally power cycled the TiVo figuring the TiVo was hosed, again. After the reboot, it restarted the "channel lineup" but this time completed within about an hour. GC now has today's date and everything seems normal. Now that GC is caught up, maybe powering down the TA will work in the future.

Many thanks to everyone who helped figured this out. I spent countless hours copying and expanding drives as well as rebuilding season passes and wish lists. Not to mention, the loss of shows and the cost of additional drives and paying dvr_dude to expand drives. I always believed the 2TB expansion was the problem because my 1TB drive never had an issue. Looking back, I think I expanded from 1TB to 2TB about the same time I got the TA.
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Old 11-17-2011, 07:06 AM   #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teiland View Post
Disconnecting the TA overnight didn't get the GC going, it was still stuck in August. I tried the "channel lineup" fix and it hung at preparing for 4 hours. I finally power cycled the TiVo figuring the TiVo was hosed, again. After the reboot, it restarted the "channel lineup" but this time completed within about an hour. GC now has today's date and everything seems normal. Now that GC is caught up, maybe powering down the TA will work in the future.

Many thanks to everyone who helped figured this out. I spent countless hours copying and expanding drives as well as rebuilding season passes and wish lists. Not to mention, the loss of shows and the cost of additional drives and paying dvr_dude to expand drives. I always believed the 2TB expansion was the problem because my 1TB drive never had an issue. Looking back, I think I expanded from 1TB to 2TB about the same time I got the TA.
Doing the channel fix after an S03 has taken up to 12 hours or so. Interesting that a power cycle shortened the time. Or maybe you just got lucky. I don't think I would advise anyone else in the future to try a power cycle in the middle of a channel fix. Glad that it worked for you, though.

I, too, had a 1 TB drive, but definitely on a TA, that worked perfectly. My GC problems started right after I upgraded to 2 TB. At first I thought the upgrade caused it, and even posted it in the upgrade forum, but did not get anyone else to say they also were having a problem. So now I'm thinking that it was just a coincidence. We have one poster here that has 2 Tivo HD's, and one has the problem and one doesn't. So go figure.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:43 AM   #439
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Quote:
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I always believed the 2TB expansion was the problem because my 1TB drive never had an issue. Looking back, I think I expanded from 1TB to 2TB about the same time I got the TA.
If you root through my posts here. I have mentioned several times that my TiVo S3 had the "Guide" problem with oem hdd. The problem started a couple of weeks after tuning adapter installation... (end of June 2011, problem start middle of July 2011.)

Anecdotally, the tuning adapter is (or is part of ) the problem. TiVo persists in denial, TiVo insists that HDD failure is the cause.

If you have not lodged a complaint with TiVo support; please, do so immediately.
You can call, chat or email TiVo support.
I suggest email, because they are not likely to have any useful permanent repair info, to share. That is worth spending real time on the phone or chat.
As, we, here, have tried all of their suggestions without permanent joy.
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:00 AM   #440
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Quote:
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System Info screen reports completion date & time.

When GC & index kicks off, Indexing runs first in 30-60 mins, when completed Indexing date & time gets updated. (This should give you a clue that GC has started) After this sweeping/GC is taking place for next x hours.

If you subtract the time between the 2 dates & times, you can figure out how long garbage collection portion takes for your Tivo...
Indexing: 6:52pm last night
GC: 11:56 pm last night

so GC is taking 5 hours even when it's up-to-date (i.e. it last ran a couple of days ago)? Damn, no wonder it starts to fail if I don't clean up Recently Deleted for a couple of weeks!
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:45 AM   #441
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? Damn, no wonder it starts to fail if I don't clean up Recently Deleted for a couple of weeks!
Currently there are over 260 shows in my TiVo's recently deleted list.
GC occurs every other day, like clock work, when the t/a power is turned off for about 4 hours daily, between 0100 and 0400 hours.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:58 PM   #442
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I have to agree with you, cleaning up recently deleted folder has very little effect on getting GC work.

When GC runs it checks every single DB object (50,000+ objects based on what I see in the logs) Deleting couple hundred shows will not matter that much.

... Then again, it may be just enough for your tivo to finish GC



Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
Currently there are over 260 shows in my TiVo's recently deleted list.
GC occurs every other day, like clock work, when the t/a power is turned off for about 4 hours daily, between 0100 and 0400 hours.

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Old 11-22-2011, 12:26 AM   #443
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the problem is back again why wont tivo fix this? when will the fall update come?

Ceton InfiniTV 4 USB for 300.00 is starting to look good. I can buy 2 of thoes and have 8 shared tuners on 2 computers and 5 tbs of drive space. tivo please fix this probelm before i do this.

Last edited by tootal2 : 11-22-2011 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:10 AM   #444
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Shutting down Internet mothership access every other day didn't seem to be enough. So now I shut down mothership access for two days in a row; two days on, two days off, rinse and repeat, and GC updates. No problems for the past few weeks.

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Old 11-22-2011, 10:30 AM   #445
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Shutting down Internet mothership access every other day didn't seem to be enough. So now I shut down mothership access for two days in a row; two days on, two days off, rinse and repeat, and GC updates. No problems for the past few weeks.

[NG]Owner
Powering down the tuning adapter for 4 hours or so is way more effective. I've been doing automatically with a lamp timer for about a month now. It works very well. -- Doug
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:44 AM   #446
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....when will the fall update come?
Already answered in post #400:

"I guess the answer to the question posed by this thread is that Tivo will fix the problem on the 12th (of Never!)" Sad but true.

Disclaimer: I fervently hope this is wrong. Tivo, please fix this.

Quote:
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Powering down the tuning adapter for 4 hours or so is way more effective. I've been doing automatically with a lamp timer for about a month now. It works very well. -- Doug
Agreed. I am liking the timer fix.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:42 PM   #447
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Agreed. I am liking the timer fix.

Me too.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:04 PM   #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougJohnson

Powering down the tuning adapter for 4 hours or so is way more effective. I've been doing automatically with a lamp timer for about a month now. It works very well. -- Doug
That does appear to be the "magic bullet." My GC hadn't updated since 11/16; I disconnected the TA this morning, fired off a manual connection just for good measure, and the GC date updated within a couple of hours. Not sure if triggering the call helps, but it doesn't appear to hurt.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:37 PM   #449
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The timer fix is nice, but there are drawbacks ....

1) Anything recording at the time the TA's power is cut gets stopped.
2) Anything recording at the time the TA's power is restored gets stopped.
3) The timer's time needs to be reset if there is a power outage (if not on a UPS).
4) One has to have enough power outlets available to have a timer possibly cover several on a power strip. I don't.

The only drawback to the at the router blocking is the loss of possible updates to guide data over a max 72 hour period. I'll take that minor risk, as opposed to the definitive occurrence of four truncated recordings every day.

Besides, my WRT54G router with Gargoyle firmware already has provisions for time of day access restrictions. It's easy and gets the job done pretty elegantly.

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Old 11-22-2011, 06:44 PM   #450
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...

Besides, my WRT54G router with Gargoyle firmware already has provisions for time of day access restrictions. It's easy and gets the job done pretty elegantly.

[NG]Owner
Okay, now I am confused. I thought these things talked to the head end over the cable (not the CAT6, the RG-6).
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