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Old 10-21-2011, 05:06 PM   #271
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I did a test over the last 5 days experimenting with a 2.5GB swap partition to see if that allows GC to run any faster. Well, I am sorry to say it does not make a difference...

There were a total of 19 dbgc attempts over the last 5 days and all of them ended with eMfsTooFast exit code. Majority of the attempts aborted within 30 minutes with a few almost making it to an hour and 1 or 2 running for a couple hours.

There is one very interesting thing I noticed. dbgc always gives up seconds after the hour or half hour. For example:

Code:
Oct 18 05:00:02 (none) DbGcStats[1486]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 06:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[1648]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 07:30:03 (none) DbGcStats[1807]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 10:00:09 (none) DbGcStats[2256]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 13:00:07 (none) DbGcStats[504]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 16:30:07 (none) DbGcStats[1306]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 18:30:04 (none) DbGcStats[1613]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 19:30:07 (none) DbGcStats[1784]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 18 21:00:07 (none) DbGcStats[2012]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 19 03:00:04 (none) DbGcStats[2870]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 19 05:00:08 (none) DbGcStats[3351]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 19 06:30:07 (none) DbGcStats[3527]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
Oct 19 08:00:08 (none) DbGcStats[3846]:   Outcome: eMfsTooFast
It is almost as if it is giving up because a new recording is starting. I checked history and there were recordings at these times but also in between these.

For now, disconnecting the Tuning Adapter seems to be the best & fastest way to achieve GC. I can get GC to complete with TA disconnected in 2-12 hrs vs 6 days with TA connected.
Also, if GC takes 6 days, the very next day Tivo will complain about having only 7 days worth of guide data left.

Also, I confirmed a couple more times that as soon as I disconnect the Tuning Adapter Garbage collection goes into overdrive going from 0% CPU utilization to 30% until GC is complete. Scheduler and other processes also become active and I noticed that I have Tivo suggestions recording again.

Since the CPU is basically idling away when TA is connected, the blocking must happen at MFS level. I am guessing GC & scheduler requests data from MFS and it is not being delivered or being delivered extremely slow starving both of these processes for data to process.
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Old 10-21-2011, 08:40 PM   #272
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For now, disconnecting the Tuning Adapter seems to be the best & fastest way to achieve GC.
I'm going to agree with the above statement.

I had TiVo disconnected from the internet for 4 days without a GC update.
This morning I killed the power to the "evil tuning adapter", forced a service connection at 0510hrs. When I came home for lunch 1100hrs. GC was updated.

The down side to taking the "evil tuning adapter" off line (disconnect power) is no channels can be tuned. At least on my TS3.
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:30 PM   #273
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I'm going to agree with the above statement.

I had TiVo disconnected from the internet for 4 days without a GC update.
This morning I killed the power to the "evil tuning adapter", forced a service connection at 0510hrs. When I came home for lunch 1100hrs. GC was updated.

The down side to taking the "evil tuning adapter" off line (disconnect power) is no channels can be tuned. At least on my TS3.
Channels should still be able to be tuned. Maybe it depends on how you have it hooked up, and/or how you are disconnecting:

- I do not power off the TA. I just disconnect the usb cable.

- I don't run my cable through the TA. I split the cable, and one goes to the TA, and one goes directly to the Tivo. So no matter what is going on with the TA, I still have cable to my Tivo. I just can't get the SDV channels if the TA is disconnected.

Even if you do run the cable connection through the TA, I think it is just a passthrough. Does that require power to the TA? I don't know the answer to that. But if it does, and that is how you are connected, then that is your problem.
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:38 PM   #274
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We still only have about 6 days of cached data.

Interestingly, our second TiVo (no tuning adapter) was running out of data (hubby forgot he unplugged the bridge while troubleshooting elsewhere) so we finally connected tonight and only got a week's worth of data. What gives? We always used to get 2 weeks at a time.

I was originally just wondering if this had something to do with the GC/tuning adapter issues, but then the non TA TiVo had the same issue.

Is anyone else having this issue?
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Old 10-22-2011, 07:48 AM   #275
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We still only have about 6 days of cached data.

Interestingly, our second TiVo (no tuning adapter) was running out of data (hubby forgot he unplugged the bridge while troubleshooting elsewhere) so we finally connected tonight and only got a week's worth of data. What gives? We always used to get 2 weeks at a time.

I was originally just wondering if this had something to do with the GC/tuning adapter issues, but then the non TA TiVo had the same issue.

Is anyone else having this issue?
Looking in System Information, if by "cached data" you mean "Guide View Cache", that is normal behavior. Where you should have almost 2 weeks worth of data is "Program Info To". Right now, my guide view cache is to Oct 28, while my program info is to Nov 4.

Your To Do list should run out to almost 2 weeks. If it doesn't, then I don't know what's going on, other than to suggest to do a reboot.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:20 AM   #276
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By default, cable goes from wall to TA then from TA to Tivo. With this set up, if you cut power, signal quality drops to nothing and you won't be able to record.

in your set up where you split the cable before TA should eliminate this issue. There is no reason for the TA to be in line with your Tivo. Matter of fact, as long as one of your Tuning Adapters tuned to an SDV channel, all your Tivos will be able to receive that channel, regardless if they have a TA or not...


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Channels should still be able to be tuned. Maybe it depends on how you have it hooked up, and/or how you are disconnecting:

- I do not power off the TA. I just disconnect the usb cable.

- I don't run my cable through the TA. I split the cable, and one goes to the TA, and one goes directly to the Tivo. So no matter what is going on with the TA, I still have cable to my Tivo. I just can't get the SDV channels if the TA is disconnected.

Even if you do run the cable connection through the TA, I think it is just a passthrough. Does that require power to the TA? I don't know the answer to that. But if it does, and that is how you are connected, then that is your problem.

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Old 10-22-2011, 09:25 AM   #277
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Even if you do run the cable connection through the TA, I think it is just a passthrough.
It's not a pass through, at least on the t/a I have. With power off all I get is a black screen and a message(forget what it is right now.)

For me, disconnecting the t/a usb cable is more trouble than the network. And, network disconnection did not work for me this past week.

So I tried the t/a disconnection and it worked and very fast, I might add.

Given my recent timely (experience) updating GC by disconnecting the t/a, along with the possibility of automating the procedure, by putting the t/a on a power cord timer, is intriguing. And, will be far easier that disconnecting and reconnecting cables.

I am also thinking about swapping out the t/a for a different one to see if that has any effect. The TW office is only a mile or so away and is open on Saturday, so it's not a big deal.


Here's an interesting anecdote I want to throw out here:
After installing a 2tb hdd (dvr_dude) Time Warner had a difficult time pairing the cable cards.
Only after removing the t/a did she get the card to pair up. She said the t/a was blocking "her hit" to the cable card...
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:26 AM   #278
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I did a test over the last 5 days experimenting with a 2.5GB swap partition to see if that allows GC to run any faster. Well, I am sorry to say it does not make a difference...
Good to know. I'm not going to think about that option any more, not that I would have been able to do it anyway.

At this point, I'm agreeing with those who say the best way to fix it right now is to disconnect the TA. I have added a USB extension cable between the TA and the Tivo, and the connection between those 2 cables is up front next to the TA. Now I don't have to reach behind either machine to disconnect the USB cable, and I can do the fix totally on my schedule with minimal hassle.

The only problem for me is when I am away for any extended period, which doesn't happen very often. I guess for those times I will put the TA power on a timer and disconnect the power on a pre-determined schedule.

Edit: the reason I don't want to continually disconnect the power is I just don't like to excessively power on and off electronics. Maybe it does no harm - I don't know. And maybe I shouldn't worry because if it does go bad I can just exchange it. But that's a hassle too.

Last edited by WO312 : 10-22-2011 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:40 AM   #279
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It's not a pass through, at least on the t/a I have. With power off all I get is a black screen and a message(forget what it is right now.)

For me, disconnecting the t/a usb cable is more trouble than the network. And, network disconnection did not work for me this past week.

So I tried the t/a disconnection and it worked and very fast, I might add.

Given my recent timely (experience) updating GC by disconnecting the t/a, along with the possibility of automating the procedure, by putting the t/a on a power cord timer, is intriguing. And, will be far easier that disconnecting and reconnecting cables.

I am also thinking about swapping out the t/a for a different one to see if that has any effect. The TW office is only a mile or so away and is open on Saturday, so it's not a big deal.


Here's an interesting anecdote I want to throw out here:
After installing a 2tb hdd (dvr_dude) Time Warner had a difficult time pairing the cable cards.
Only after removing the t/a did she get the card to pair up. She said the t/a was blocking "her hit" to the cable card...
Interesting thought - swap out the TA. Maybe that is why it is a relatively small problem - only those of us where something went wrong in the TA have this problem. Why don't you be the guinea pig and try it out and let us know if it fixes the problem.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:44 AM   #280
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Bypassing the TA during cablecard pairing is a fairly standard thing TWC techs ask for. The TA has a signal booster in it that over powers your signal for recieve thus killing your send levels. This is why cutting power kills your cable signal level to your Tivo.

Split the coax before your TA, that way pairing your cable card is not an issue and killing power to your TA won't kill signal levels...

On top of that you may have hot incoming signal. My incoming coax signal level was so hot that my Tuning adapters had problems sending tune requests up stream. (most channels would tune, but some would not) I eventually had TWC install a 6 Ohm attenuator and all my SDV channels work now.

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Interesting thought - swap out the TA. Maybe that is why it is a relatively small problem - only those of us where something went wrong in the TA have this problem. Why don't you be the guinea pig and try it out and let us know if it fixes the problem.

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Old 10-22-2011, 11:16 AM   #281
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Here's a gem for you all:

Just by pressing on/off button on the front of the Tuning Adapter is enough to let dbgc start working. As soon as I turned it off by pressing the button, dbgc kicked in and is now at 30% CPU utilization.

So for pain free GC:
- Split coax before TA
- Power down TA by pressing on/off button
- Force daily call
- Let it churn

If you need to watch an SDV channel for an hour or 2, it is OK to turn TA back on then turn back off. It doesn't kill GC just makes it slow to a crawl.


* While TA is off, I can still go to Tuning Adapter diagnostics. It reports that it is in ready state...
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Old 10-22-2011, 03:02 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WO312

Looking in System Information, if by "cached data" you mean "Guide View Cache", that is normal behavior. Where you should have almost 2 weeks worth of data is "Program Info To". Right now, my guide view cache is to Oct 28, while my program info is to Nov 4.

Your To Do list should run out to almost 2 weeks. If it doesn't, then I don't know what's going on, other than to suggest to do a reboot.
Doh! Thanks. My program data says Nov 3.
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Old 10-22-2011, 03:34 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by trackie999
Matter of fact, as long as one of your Tuning Adapters tuned to an SDV channel, all your Tivos will be able to receive that channel, regardless if they have a TA or not...
I'm not so sure about that. Granted, the channel would be available to the other TiVos, but without their own TA they would have no way of knowing what frequency to find it on.
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Old 10-22-2011, 03:51 PM   #284
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Here's a gem for you all:

Just by pressing on/off button on the front of the Tuning Adapter is enough to let dbgc start working. As soon as I turned it off by pressing the button, dbgc kicked in and is now at 30% CPU utilization.

So for pain free GC:
- Split coax before TA
- Power down TA by pressing on/off button
- Force daily call
- Let it churn

If you need to watch an SDV channel for an hour or 2, it is OK to turn TA back on then turn back off. It doesn't kill GC just makes it slow to a crawl.


* While TA is off, I can still go to Tuning Adapter diagnostics. It reports that it is in ready state...
Excellent suggestion. I can get rid of my USB extension cable and just turn off the TA with the button. Then the only issue remains what to do when I am away, and I guess for that I will use a timer to shut it off periodically.
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Old 10-22-2011, 05:05 PM   #285
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Interesting thought - swap out the TA.

Why don't you be the guinea pig and try it out and let us know if it fixes the problem.
Roger that; but sorry to say, it's not happening today.
Next week? Stay tuned...
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Old 10-23-2011, 07:29 AM   #286
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Bypassing the TA during cablecard pairing is a fairly standard thing TWC techs ask for. The TA has a signal booster in it that over powers your signal for recieve thus killing your send levels. This is why cutting power kills your cable signal level to your Tivo.

Split the coax before your TA, that way pairing your cable card is not an issue and killing power to your TA won't kill signal levels...

On top of that you may have hot incoming signal. My incoming coax signal level was so hot that my Tuning adapters had problems sending tune requests up stream. (most channels would tune, but some would not) I eventually had TWC install a 6 Ohm attenuator and all my SDV channels work now.
Are you sure that wasn't a 6dB attenuator?
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Old 10-23-2011, 11:38 AM   #287
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sorry, 6dB.

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Are you sure that wasn't a 6dB attenuator?

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Old 10-23-2011, 03:35 PM   #288
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Has anyone had a decent discussion with TiVo about this?

My conversations with them have been a guy reading a script, telling me my hard disk was bad, etc. (I've even replaced the HD once only to discover that the problem started again very soon.) Is there a secret to get past this sort of nonsense?

Looks like until they do something, I'll be unplugging my Tuning Adapter for 24 hours once a week or so.
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Old 10-23-2011, 05:33 PM   #289
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Has anyone had a decent discussion with TiVo about this?

My conversations with them have been a guy reading a script, telling me my hard disk was bad, etc. (I've even replaced the HD once only to discover that the problem started again very soon.) Is there a secret to get past this sort of nonsense?

Looks like until they do something, I'll be unplugging my Tuning Adapter for 24 hours once a week or so.
Decent discussion yes.
Productive, no.
I even pointed them to this thread. They denied t/a has anything to do with the problem.
They wanted me to do hdd diag and maybe have to send my box in for repair/exchange (that's not going to happen.)

Yesterday I tried forcing a GC by powering down the t/a by pressing the power button, then forcing a service connection. No joy after 8 hours.

Today I repeated the procedure(above), this time unplugging t/a from the wall. Within 3 hrs GC was up to date.

Additionally:
During t/a power down via switch; some channels can be tuned.
With t/a powered down via disconnect from power cord; no channels can be tuned.

I wish Verzion would get fios piped in to my hood. I'd say bye-bye Time Warner and sdv.

TIVO help; there was no problem before SDV and tuning adapter.

Last edited by Teeps : 10-23-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:06 AM   #290
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At this point, I'm agreeing with those who say the best way to fix it right now is to disconnect the TA. I have added a USB extension cable between the TA and the Tivo, and the connection between those 2 cables is up front next to the TA. Now I don't have to reach behind either machine to disconnect the USB cable, and I can do the fix totally on my schedule with minimal hassle.
The extension cable is the best solution for me. About once a week, disconnect the USB, force a program guide call connection. In about 1 hour the GC is complete and USB can be reconnected. Any way to install an On/Off switch in the USB line?
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:54 AM   #291
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Yesterday I did the power button off thing with the TA, but did not force an update, since it had updated by itself just a few hours before. I got a GC within about 3 hours, I don't remember the exact time.

I'm not clear why it is important to force the update. I'm thinking that if I can get a GC update just by the TA button, I'll let the Tivo get program updates on its' own schedule.

The goal here is to get a GC update, like a normal Tivo. With GC updates, the TIvo takes care of itself.

Am I missing something?
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:58 AM   #292
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The extension cable is the best solution for me. About once a week, disconnect the USB, force a program guide call connection. In about 1 hour the GC is complete and USB can be reconnected. Any way to install an On/Off switch in the USB line?
Good question. That would be my preferred way to have it automated - put a timer on the USB cable connection.

For a manual solution, I really like just pushing the power button. Kudos to trackie999.
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:44 AM   #293
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I'm not clear why it is important to force the update. I'm thinking that if I can get a GC update just by the TA button, I'll let the Tivo get program updates on its' own schedule.
I don't think we need to force the update. I'm in my fifth day of using an ordinary household 120v timer to power off the tuning adapter for 4 hours in the early morning (3-7 am). I choose that time range because my to do list doesn't have anything during that time.

It is working perfectly. The GC completes within a couple of hours. The schedule updates occur automatically. There seem to be no bad side effects.

I have a OLED S3 with 1TB and a Motorola tuning adapter. The cable is split before the TA so TiVo gets a signal regardless of whether the TA is powered on or not.

While I'm not happy to need this workaround, it seems perfectly useable.

Yes, thanks to trackie999. Your research gave me the hints needed to try this approach.
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:47 PM   #294
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I don't think we need to force the update. I'm in my fifth day of using an ordinary household 120v timer to power off the tuning adapter for 4 hours in the early morning (3-7 am). I choose that time range because my to do list doesn't have anything during that time.

It is working perfectly. The GC completes within a couple of hours. The schedule updates occur automatically. There seem to be no bad side effects.

I have a OLED S3 with 1TB and a Motorola tuning adapter. The cable is split before the TA so TiVo gets a signal regardless of whether the TA is powered on or not.

While I'm not happy to need this workaround, it seems perfectly useable.

Yes, thanks to trackie999. Your research gave me the hints needed to try this approach.
-- Doug
For me, forcing the update makes the GC happen much quicker. Several times I tried disconnecting the TA for several hours and no GC occurred. But each time I disconnect and force an update the GC complets within about 1 hour.
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:59 PM   #295
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For me, forcing the update makes the GC happen much quicker. Several times I tried disconnecting the TA for several hours and no GC occurred. But each time I disconnect and force an update the GC complets within about 1 hour.
Same here.
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:10 PM   #296
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I have a new Premiere Elite and different Tuning Adapter

The new Tuning Adapter I got for my new Premiere Elite is the same Cisco STA1520 model number as the one on my THD. There are some differences, however. Slightly larger/modified enclosure. During installation the CR on the CC install hotline said that is was one of the newer models and that they could not see the MAC from their head end as they could on the previous one. So there must be some firmware differences even if still model STA 1520. The TIVOs and TAs are sitting together in the shelf. I propose to try the following:
Swap the USB connections between the tuners and THD, Elite, i.e. New TA to old HD and old TA to new Elite. I think I will not have to swap out the Coax connections (right??)
1. If the problem with the THD goes away or changes to the Elite, then we have our answer.
2. If the problem remains with the THD then swapping TAs does no good but raises a question.
What is different in the Premiere OS software that it does not have this problem?? I have noticed that on the Premiere Elite that GC always completes a few minutes before the daily guide call. On one occasion the call actually skipped a day but again GC completed a few minutes ahead of the call. Was this because it was waiting for GC completion before making the call? Don't know, but I can't help wondering why the TA does not interfere with the Elite's GC but does interfere with the HD's GC.

In any case it is clear that TIVO's CS position that the problem is failing HDD is total BS stonewalling. Come on, TIVO! Stop ignoring the problem, acknowledge that it is not due to failing HDD, and fix it!!
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:30 PM   #297
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The new Tuning Adapter I got for my new Premiere Elite is the same Cisco STA1520 model number as the one on my THD. There are some differences, however. Slightly larger/modified enclosure. During installation the CR on the CC install hotline said that is was one of the newer models and that they could not see the MAC from their head end as they could on the previous one. So there must be some firmware differences even if still model STA 1520. The TIVOs and TAs are sitting together in the shelf. I propose to try the following:
Swap the USB connections between the tuners and THD, Elite, i.e. New TA to old HD and old TA to new Elite. I think I will not have to swap out the Coax connections (right??)
1. If the problem with the THD goes away or changes to the Elite, then we have our answer.
2. If the problem remains with the THD then swapping TAs does no good but raises a question.
What is different in the Premiere OS software that it does not have this problem?? I have noticed that on the Premiere Elite that GC always completes a few minutes before the daily guide call. On one occasion the call actually skipped a day but again GC completed a few minutes ahead of the call. Was this because it was waiting for GC completion before making the call? Don't know, but I can't help wondering why the TA does not interfere with the Elite's GC but does interfere with the HD's GC.

In any case it is clear that TIVO's CS position that the problem is failing HDD is total BS stonewalling. Come on, TIVO! Stop ignoring the problem, acknowledge that it is not due to failing HDD, and fix it!!
That should be a really good experiment. And yes, I don't think you have to switch the coax.

The only thing I don't know is if the TA is married to the Tivo through TWC or whoever you have.
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:35 PM   #298
DougJohnson
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Originally Posted by wtherrell View Post
T
1. If the problem with the THD goes away or changes to the Elite, then we have our answer.
Maybe not. Since I am having the problem with my Motorola TA, it is not solely a firmware issue. -- Doug
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:33 PM   #299
trackie999
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Originally Posted by WO312 View Post
Yesterday I did the power button off thing with the TA, but did not force an update, since it had updated by itself just a few hours before. I got a GC within about 3 hours, I don't remember the exact time.

I'm not clear why it is important to force the update. I'm thinking that if I can get a GC update just by the TA button, I'll let the Tivo get program updates on its' own schedule.

The goal here is to get a GC update, like a normal Tivo. With GC updates, the TIvo takes care of itself.

Am I missing something?
Let's assume Tivo downloaded Guide Data ~18 hours ago and GC has been running ever since. If you disconnect TA, GC may or may not complete prior to next daily call. If next daily call happens before it's done, GC gets interrupted and will not complete. Instead it will start over and you will wonder what happened.

So just be aware of this and don't be surprised if this happens.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:50 PM   #300
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My TivoHD with 1300+ recordings took ~13 hours to do GC with TA turned off. I checked CPU utilization and it was going 30% CPU utilization. GC on the previous day only took 10 hours, not exactly sure why it took longer during 2nd successful attempt.

We should all call Tivo Support on the same day and same time. It should get their attention and it would be pretty hard for them to say they never heard of the issue before

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Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
Decent discussion yes.
Productive, no.
I even pointed them to this thread. They denied t/a has anything to do with the problem.
They wanted me to do hdd diag and maybe have to send my box in for repair/exchange (that's not going to happen.)

Yesterday I tried forcing a GC by powering down the t/a by pressing the power button, then forcing a service connection. No joy after 8 hours.

Today I repeated the procedure(above), this time unplugging t/a from the wall. Within 3 hrs GC was up to date.

Additionally:
During t/a power down via switch; some channels can be tuned.
With t/a powered down via disconnect from power cord; no channels can be tuned.

I wish Verzion would get fios piped in to my hood. I'd say bye-bye Time Warner and sdv.

TIVO help; there was no problem before SDV and tuning adapter.

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