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Old 10-12-2011, 05:12 PM   #91
jfh3
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Originally Posted by Philmatic View Post
And speeds are around 80mbps, which is close enough to the 10/100 speeds that the Elite supports anyway, so you wouldn't be losing much by using MoCA over Ethernet.
The Elite has Gigabit Ethernet, right?

Which brings up an interesting question - if you have both Ethernet and Coax/MoCA active on an Elite, does it prioritize traffic to the Ethernet interface (say doing Tivo Desktop transfer from that PC)?
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:14 PM   #92
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Yep! That's how MoCA works:



And speeds are around 80mbps, which is close enough to the 10/100 speeds that the Elite supports anyway, so you wouldn't be losing much by using MoCA over Ethernet.
The only positive to MOCA would be if you cant get ethernet to the location you need
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:15 PM   #93
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That's what I hope. I haven't hooked it up yet. That room doesn't have Cat5, but does have coax.

Right now, I have a Tivo premiere and the other devices hooked up to a DAP-1522, but swapping that out for a small Dlink switch and using the Elite to bridge the two should provide better sustained performance for the Tivos, the TV and the Apple TV when it comes to streaming video.
You will need a MoCa adapter at the router.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:33 PM   #94
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You will need a MoCa adapter at the router.
But I will have an Elite hooked up to the router via Cat5, so doesn't that bridge the LAN with the MoCA?
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:59 PM   #95
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Just transferred an hour show in HD from an Elite to my laptop on a Gigabit network; took about 10 minutes. File was 4365MB.

From Video copied to remote device network status:
10 minutes 34 seconds @ 57.70 Mb/s

(sorry for the cross-post, but this seemed more appropriate here)
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:05 PM   #96
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And speeds are around 80mbps, which is close enough to the 10/100 speeds that the Elite supports anyway, so you wouldn't be losing much by using MoCA over Ethernet.
Speeds for MoCA 1.1 are actually around 175 Mbps, but that only really comes in to play with multiple devices and streams. Individual devices are limited to around 80 mbps like you said, but multiple devices can be transferring at 80 mbps at the same time over MoCA.

Also MoCA works as a star network. So the traffic goes directly between the appropriate MoCA devices, bypassing Ethernet completely (leaving it free for other traffic).
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:51 PM   #97
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I just did some transfers with my Elite. From TiVo Desktop to the Elite with all four tuners on vacant channels, I hit a peak of 130Mb/s. But the average throughput was 95Mb/s for the entire hour long HD show(6.5GB)
When I did a transfer with all tuners buffering(3 recording), the transfer rate was around 70Mb/s. Which is the typical speed for my two tuner Premieres.
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:58 PM   #98
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the average throughput was 95Mb/s for the entire hour long HD show(6.5GB)
Wonder why you got significantly more throughput than I did ... that's a huge difference.
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:18 PM   #99
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Wonder why you got significantly more throughput than I did ... that's a huge difference.
I had the tuners on vacant channels. When all four tuners were buffering with 3 recording I had around a 70Mb/s average transfer rate.
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:43 PM   #100
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Wonder why you got significantly more throughput than I did ... that's a huge difference.
Does your laptop have gigabit too, not a lot of them do yet? Could also be an issue with your router (bug a firmware fixes for example), maybe you have a pre cat5e network cable in the mix somewhere, or aaronwt might have a better gigabit network card with TCP Offload type features. Networks can be all kinds of finicky.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:53 PM   #101
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Does your laptop have gigabit too, not a lot of them do yet? Could also be an issue with your router (bug a firmware fixes for example), maybe you have a pre cat5e network cable in the mix somewhere, or aaronwt might have a better gigabit network card with TCP Offload type features. Networks can be all kinds of finicky.
My laptop has Gigabit for sure, router is WNDR3700, switches are 4 or 8 port Dlink or Netgears.

All cabling is either Cat5e or Cat6 - didn't think that mattered.

Will have to do more research and verification.
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:11 AM   #102
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A thought on the GigE. How does that switch connect into the TiVo itself? The Broadcom SoC has a Fast Ethernet interface (100Mbps), right? On the Premiere that is connected to the single Ethernet port.

I could see them sticking the switch in the Elite and connecting three things to it - the Ethernet port, the MoCA interface, and the Broadcom Ethernet interface. That would mean the real connectivity into the system would still be the 100Mbps SoC interface, even if the external interface is GigE. It'd just be like using an external speed sensing switch on a Premiere, with an external MoCA ECB hanging off the switch. Only they stuffed it all inside the box.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:18 AM   #103
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A thought on the GigE. How does that switch connect into the TiVo itself? The Broadcom SoC has a Fast Ethernet interface (100Mbps), right? On the Premiere that is connected to the single Ethernet port.

I could see them sticking the switch in the Elite and connecting three things to it - the Ethernet port, the MoCA interface, and the Broadcom Ethernet interface. That would mean the real connectivity into the system would still be the 100Mbps SoC interface, even if the external interface is GigE. It'd just be like using an external speed sensing switch on a Premiere, with an external MoCA ECB hanging off the switch. Only they stuffed it all inside the box.
All of this had me thinking... has anyone cracked open a Premiere over the last month or 2 to see if the layout changed?
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:49 AM   #104
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My laptop has Gigabit for sure, router is WNDR3700, switches are 4 or 8 port Dlink or Netgears.

All cabling is either Cat5e or Cat6 - didn't think that mattered.

Will have to do more research and verification.
Do you have another gigabit system on your network to copy that video to now to see what types of speeds you get for other devices? You definitely are on gigabit though because if any part was at 100 Mbps you'd only be able to move 12.5 MBps maximum. Some part of your network is just preventing you from reaching the maximum capable speed, which a lot of times just isn't possible. Theoretical maximum would be 125 MBps on gigabit.
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:48 AM   #105
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Do you have another gigabit system on your network to copy that video to now to see what types of speeds you get for other devices? You definitely are on gigabit though because if any part was at 100 Mbps you'd only be able to move 12.5 MBps maximum. Some part of your network is just preventing you from reaching the maximum capable speed, which a lot of times just isn't possible. Theoretical maximum would be 125 MBps on gigabit.
I have another system with GigE and I have 3 switches that should all be GigE. Pretty sure all the cable is Cat6, but I'll have to poke around and see if I can find something amiss. I'll copy the .TiVo file later today to see how fast it is.

I do have a DAP-1522 wireless N bridge, but that shouldn't impact the wired part of the network, should it?
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:05 AM   #106
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The DAP1522 also is a wired gigabit switch or AP. I use several of them. it shouldn't affect the speed unless a device is using wireless on it. But even then as long as there aren't a bunch of devices hogging the wireless bandwidth it should still be fine. With my DAp1522 units in bridge mode. My two tuner Premieres had identical transfer speeds as when connected to my gigabit backbone. SO even when it was connected to the wireless bridge, it still got 80Mb/s to 90Mb/s transfer rates. Although normally all my TiVos are on a wired connection.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:06 AM   #107
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I have another system with GigE and I have 3 switches that should all be GigE. Pretty sure all the cable is Cat6, but I'll have to poke around and see if I can find something amiss. I'll copy the .TiVo file later today to see how fast it is.

I do have a DAP-1522 wireless N bridge, but that shouldn't impact the wired part of the network, should it?
Cat5e, Cat6, or Cat6a will all allow 1G speeds so if you have all of those you should be good. You are getting about 4x over what a 100 Mbps line can do so you are getting a benefit. The problem becomes as you add more switches they do have a 1 Gbps switching back-plane but they then share their uploads to the next switch layer so even if other devices aren't sending data actively they do have network chatter going on that eats a bit of bandwidth and creates resource contention. The moving of the data file between machines should help give an idea if it's your overall network it'll depend on if it's going across as many devices as the TiVo. If any of them have firmware updates you might want to look into that too.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:15 AM   #108
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Cat5e, Cat6, or Cat6a will all allow 1G speeds so if you have all of those you should be good. You are getting about 4x over what a 100 Mbps line can do so you are getting a benefit. The problem becomes as you add more switches they do have a 1 Gbps switching back-plane but they then share their uploads to the next switch layer so even if other devices aren't sending data actively they do have network chatter going on that eats a bit of bandwidth and creates resource contention. The moving of the data file between machines should help give an idea if it's your overall network it'll depend on if it's going across as many devices as the TiVo. If any of them have firmware updates you might want to look into that too.
I know with my consumer grade switches having more switches, to a certain point, should not hurt anything. I use fourteen DLink 5 port and 8 port Gigabit switches, plus several DAP1522 units in AP and bridge mode.
Some devices have to go through four or five switches to access content. But I will get the same fast speeds from it whether going through all those switches or going through one switch.

For instance, I will still get 900+Mb/s throughput from PC to PC whether they are connected to the same Dlink gigabit switch or they are going through five of the Dlink gigabit switches.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:16 AM   #109
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I think maybe it's not actually running at Gigabit then as I realized I was mixing terms.

4365 MB in 10 minutes is 7.3 MB/s or 58 Mb/s for the average length of the file

If the TiVo was running at 1G and all connections are 1G you should be hitting much higher speeds.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:28 AM   #110
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I've been using DAP-1522 for a couple of years as the main bridge on TIVO HD. Always hit the throughput capacity of the TIVO HD before I have to worry about the DAP-1522 bandwidth capacity.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:31 PM   #111
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The Elite has Gigabit Ethernet, right?
Yeah, I don't understand what I was getting at there. lol
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:55 PM   #112
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According to my NetGear switch, the Elite is connected gigabit.

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Old 10-13-2011, 02:31 PM   #113
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GearLive: Why the TiVo Elite is so much faster than the TiVo Premiere

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...SrKI9A&cad=rja

Other than the RAM mistake it appears the blogger has summarized the changes pretty well.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:13 PM   #114
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With that much of my content copy/pasted a mention would be nice.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:14 PM   #115
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With that much of my content copy/pasted a mention would be nice.
Which post are you referring to? Or is it the link?
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:20 PM   #116
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The blogger lifted much of brentil's text verbatim.
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:39 PM   #117
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Yeah,. I noticed it that... down to the "(instead of ?)".
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:41 PM   #118
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The blogger lifted much of brentil's text verbatim.
He does reference the thread but not everyone clicks through. The other blogger who used some of my content from the v16 thread cited me at least.

But back to business, more performance!
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:32 PM   #119
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I know with my consumer grade switches having more switches, to a certain point, should not hurt anything.
Additional switches will increase your latency, but it shouldn't hurt your throughput. Fortunately, I can't think of any reason why a few milliseconds of additional latency would matter for a Tivo.

14 switches is an impressive number for a household. I only have 4 switches, although the one in the main computer room is a fancy managed switch. Whatever do you need 14 switches for?
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:05 PM   #120
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My collection of networked devices keeps growing since just about everything is IP based now. The largest percentage of networked devices I have are my cameras(ten). But with multiple electronic devices(multiple TiVos, multiple Xbox 360s, multiple media players, multiple PCs/servers/NAS devices etc), the total goes up pretty quick. Too quick.
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