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Old 09-07-2011, 01:18 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by tiassa View Post
My question is: IS there a way to upgrade a THD and My DVR expander, can I plug them all into SATA ports on a PC and have JMFS "see" all of them?
Wait, not with jmfs, but can't he use the old "two drives to one" upgrade process?
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Old 09-07-2011, 01:45 PM   #272
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Wait, not with jmfs, but can't he use the old "two drives to one" upgrade process?
If you mean combining a DVR Expander and and internal drive's recordings that's never been an option AFAIK. Did I miss something along the way?
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:09 PM   #273
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If you mean combining a DVR Expander and and internal drive's recordings that's never been an option AFAIK. Did I miss something along the way?
He's talking about using the same MFS Tools method that was used when you had a two internal drive TiVo and wanted to go (back) to one (larger) internal. Probably won't work, but has anyone tried it?
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:44 PM   #274
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He's talking about using the same MFS Tools method that was used when you had a two internal drive TiVo and wanted to go (back) to one (larger) internal. Probably won't work, but has anyone tried it?
Ah, got it. Oh yes...everything under the sun was attempted to combine Expander and internal drive recordings (numerous threads and posts over at mfslive.org/forums) but no one succeeded to my knowledge.

The difference is that recordings on dual drive setups went to drive A or drive B, so it was basically "stand alone" data that could be combined.

In the case of external TiVo drives, the data is striped across both drives (in compliance with legal requirements to prevent people moving recordings from one machine to another) and in the end could not be "married".
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:10 PM   #275
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Oh, I thought external drive Tivo drives were essentially the same as two-drive-internal old TiVos (except SATA vs IDE).
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:11 PM   #276
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Oh, I thought external drive Tivo drives were essentially the same as two-drive-internal old TiVos (except SATA vs IDE).
Unfortunately not.
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Old 09-07-2011, 06:07 PM   #277
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Oh, I thought external drive Tivo drives were essentially the same as two-drive-internal old TiVos (except SATA vs IDE).
They (or the content providers who would sue them into oblivion) are deathly afraid of an option they think will allow separating the recording from the recording device, so once an external drive is added each recording gets spread across both, apparently. Sort of like RAID striping.

It strikes me as a stupid and unneccessary complication, since treating it the same as a second internal drive would still leave you with recordings tied to the device (which is why you can't move an internal drive from one TiVo to another of the same model and watch recordings made on the first on the second), and anyone who can "decode" those recordings wouldn't think twice about opening up the TiVo and doing the same with the recordings on it.
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Old 09-07-2011, 10:02 PM   #278
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I can at least confirm that a newer WD20EARS drive (my build is Jun 16) does not support AAM. The hdparm command returns unsupported error.
Just to add one more data point on the recent WD20EARS drive, soft-reboot did work a couple of times while I was trying to get the drive working, but it did lock up at least once during a soft-reboot, so it is probably a good pre-caution to do wdidle3 on the drive to be safe. I am running 11.0k version.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:27 AM   #279
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Upgrading Australian TiVo HD to 2TB

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Thank you for this! Successfully upgraded from a WD10EVDS to a WD20EURS on my TiVo HD by following the unstructions.
Field report from Australia: Works for an Australian Tivo HD. Followed the instructions from the first post in this thread and the tips in other posts (including being sure to do "Run as Administrator" when running WinMFS at the end for the Supersize).

I had upgrading the TiVo originally back in 2008 to a 1TB WD10EVCS with WinMFS. The other day after reading this thread bought a new 2TB WD20EURS. I checked the drive first with the WDidle util boot CD and did need to change the timeout to 300.

Hard drives were connected by motherboard SATA ports on a Core 2 Duo Windows 7 machine (not that the installed OS matters for JMFS!)

Then used JMFS for the (very slow!) copy from the WD10EVCS to the WD20EURS and then the expand (very quick). I started the machine and left it and did other things and it took somewhere around 6-8 hours. Then rebooted and did the WinMFS Supersize.

No errors during the copy, and the TiVo is now reporting double the space (400 hours HD - HD is a different format in Australia, so hours numbers are not the same).

Quite easy really - probably helped by previous WinMFS use, and making sure I read the first post of this thread very carefully to avoid pitfalls.

I do have a suggestion for the insructions. Since with JMFS 1.04 it is now possible to use it to do this upgrade most of the time, should the line "Given our current experience, it doesn't seem possible to upgrade from an expanded drive to a 1.5TB/2.0TB drive." have a STRIKETHROUGH put over it, and a note added at the end like "(no longer always true, please see below)"

What do you guys think? That line confused me initially.

Thank you to Tivoitis for starting this very useful thread and all who have added to it!
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:29 AM   #280
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I didn't take any chances when I did my upgrade. I ran wdidle whether it was needed or not. Only added a couple of minutes to the upgrade process.
Next time you'll know better.

Yeah, I misread the FAQ -- I thought that drives AFTER a certain date were OK, so I wouldn't need wdidle, now I see that all new drives need it.

No big deal, I didn't even have to take the drive out of the Tivo, I was able to connect up the drive to another box while it was still in the Tivo case (with the cover off obviously).

One small non-tivo concern tho, the box I connected the Tivo to already had a WD drive in it and wdidle ran on both drives. Does anyone know the default wdidle setting, so I can set it back? I don't think this is going to be a big deal as that computer doesn't get turned off (it's my Blackberry Server), but there is probably a reason that WD set the default in the first place.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:26 AM   #281
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Yeah, I misread the FAQ -- I thought that drives AFTER a certain date were OK, so I wouldn't need wdidle, now I see that all new drives need it.

No big deal, I didn't even have to take the drive out of the Tivo, I was able to connect up the drive to another box while it was still in the Tivo case (with the cover off obviously).

One small non-tivo concern tho, the box I connected the Tivo to already had a WD drive in it and wdidle ran on both drives. Does anyone know the default wdidle setting, so I can set it back? I don't think this is going to be a big deal as that computer doesn't get turned off (it's my Blackberry Server), but there is probably a reason that WD set the default in the first place.
I believe what the default setting depends on the type of hard drive. It appears (to me) that all the wd green drives are set to a default of 8 sec. This apparently gives maximum power savings, but with a cost of theoretically decreasing the drives life span. Seems that the black drives will have a default of disabled. Makes sense.

I get the feeling from the following video that it is probably just best to disable the idle timer of wd drives. Note that for some drives(most newer), "disable" actually results in an idle timer setting of 3720 sec (62 min).
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:24 AM   #282
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Does anyone know if I used a 2.5 TB drive would I get slightly more space up to 2.19 TB?

Or, do you have any theoretical thoughts on this? Thank you!
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:40 PM   #283
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Does anyone know if I used a 2.5 TB drive would I get slightly more space up to 2.19 TB?

Or, do you have any theoretical thoughts on this? Thank you!
My theoretical thought is that 2.5TB drives will cost you a lot more per TB than a 2TB drive, and that with so many fewer of them out there there are less (edit:that should probably be fewer, since data is--are?--the plural of datum and a datum is discrete and countable) data about the reliability of particular models.

I'd be curious, though, to know if someone could get that to work (2TB+ on a 2.5), and then dd it to a 3, so that it had a 2.5 partition table or bootpage or whatever, and get the 3 to work.

Does anyone know if the 1.5s that were used to get 1+ previously wound up with all of the unused space as an Apple_Free_Partition in the partiton map or not?
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:04 PM   #284
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Why is this copying so slowly?

Nutshell: I have an original 1TB drive in my TivoHD, upgraded from the stock drive with WinMFS. Been working great for over a year, but I started to hear some clicking I didn't like. So rather than wait for it to fail, I bought the Hitachi 2TB drive that some others here have bought.

I burned JMFS to a CD, got hold of an unused PC with SATA connections on the MB, and hooked up the drives. Booted to the CD, no problem. Started the copy and at the rate it's going it will take about 5 hours to finish.

I thought it should only take around 2 hours? Did I do something wrong?
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:13 PM   #285
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Why is this copying so slowly?

Nutshell: I have an original 1TB drive in my TivoHD, upgraded from the stock drive with WinMFS. Been working great for over a year, but I started to hear some clicking I didn't like. So rather than wait for it to fail, I bought the Hitachi 2TB drive that some others here have bought.

I burned JMFS to a CD, got hold of an unused PC with SATA connections on the MB, and hooked up the drives. Booted to the CD, no problem. Started the copy and at the rate it's going it will take about 5 hours to finish.

I thought it should only take around 2 hours? Did I do something wrong?
Any chance you somehow turned off DMA?
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:30 PM   #286
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"Consider the Source"

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Why is this copying so slowly?

Nutshell: I have an original 1TB drive in my TivoHD, upgraded from the stock drive with WinMFS. Been working great for over a year, but I started to hear some clicking I didn't like. So rather than wait for it to fail, I bought the Hitachi 2TB drive that some others here have bought.

I burned JMFS to a CD, got hold of an unused PC with SATA connections on the MB, and hooked up the drives. Booted to the CD, no problem. Started the copy and at the rate it's going it will take about 5 hours to finish.

I thought it should only take around 2 hours? Did I do something wrong?
Consider the Source

Probably takes about 2 hours using an original Tivo HD 160 GB drive as the source. A 1 TB source drive may very well take a lot longer.

Using JMFS for doing Premiere upgrades on 3 hard drives(2x2TB drives, 1x320GB) took between 2 and 3 hours on 2 different computers.

This was using an original Premiere 320 GB drive as the source drive each time.

Sounds like that may very well be about right.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:34 PM   #287
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Consider the Source

Probably takes about 2 hours using an original Tivo HD 160 GB drive as the source. A 1 TB source drive may very well take a lot longer.

Using JMFS for doing Premiere upgrades on 3 hard drives(2x2TB drives, 1x320GB) took between 2 and 3 hours on 2 different computers.

This was using an original Premiere 320 GB drive as the source drive each time.

Sounds like that may very well be about right.
Ah - ok. Thanks for that clarification. I thought people were copying from 1TB to 2TB in 2 hours. It seems to be taking 3 minutes or so per 10K. If that's a typical copy rate, then I'm good.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:48 PM   #288
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Ah - ok. Thanks for that clarification. I thought people were copying from 1TB to 2TB in 2 hours. It seems to be taking 3 minutes or so per 10K. If that's a typical copy rate, then I'm good.
I'm actually not saying that is the reason it is taking so long. Just that it could be.

Let us know how things turn out.
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:17 PM   #289
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Ah - ok. Thanks for that clarification. I thought people were copying from 1TB to 2TB in 2 hours. It seems to be taking 3 minutes or so per 10K. If that's a typical copy rate, then I'm good.
So, it will be done around the middle of April next year? Sweet!
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:21 PM   #290
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So, it will be done around the middle of April next year? Sweet!
Ha! I meant 3 minutes per 10K MB!
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:37 PM   #291
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I'm actually not saying that is the reason it is taking so long. Just that it could be.

Let us know how things turn out.
I think you were correct. I just looked at the youtube video of the Premiere upgrade from a 320GB drive and it took over 2 hours for that to copy, so 5+ hours to copy 1TB sounds reasonable.
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:17 PM   #292
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I think you were correct. I just looked at the youtube video of the Premiere upgrade from a 320GB drive and it took over 2 hours for that to copy, so 5+ hours to copy 1TB sounds reasonable.
It does(sound reasonable).

And like you have referenced, after 20 - 30 minutes or so, I was able to see the rate of progression, and pretty closely estimate how long the copy actually would take.
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:50 PM   #293
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Update: Success!

After about 6 hours, the copy finished and I expanded the drive.

I made a brief attempt to connect it to my Win XP machine so I could supersize it with WinMFS, but WinMFS couldn't seem to find the drive, so I bagged it. 287 hours is enough.

Put it in the Tivo and it fired up the first time. No problem with the cablecard - that came up fine too.

The Hitachi drive couldn't be quieter.

The most difficult part of the whole process (other than my miscalculation of the copy time) was getting the damn cover off the tivo. The right side of it just hung up and didn't want to come off.

Thanks to comer for a great tool. Donation in the works...
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:43 PM   #294
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Thank you for your thoughts. I was not worried about the price difference ($95 vs $120). I figure that is a cheap amount versus all the money in the unit and the lifetime service. Your comment on reliability is worth considering.

I was going to use WD20EURS or WD25EURS. I will look into the Hitachi as well.

So, I am still hoping that someone might be able to comment on the possibility of going over 2TB to 2.19TB in an HD Tivo. I would like the extra capacity.
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Old 09-23-2011, 06:25 AM   #295
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I made a brief attempt to connect it to my Win XP machine so I could supersize it with WinMFS, but WinMFS couldn't seem to find the drive, so I bagged it. 287 hours is enough.
Did you run WinMFS "as administrator"? If not, that's probably why WinMFS couldn't seem to find the drive. I ran into this when doing my upgrade.
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Old 09-23-2011, 07:29 AM   #296
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Did you run WinMFS "as administrator"? If not, that's probably why WinMFS couldn't seem to find the drive. I ran into this when doing my upgrade.
Yes I did, but it still couldn't see it. I was using one of those cheap SATA/USB gadgets though, so that may have been the reason. Maybe I'll try it again someday, but I've already doubled my capacity so that should hold me for a while.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:15 PM   #297
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Yes I did, but it still couldn't see it. I was using one of those cheap SATA/USB gadgets though, so that may have been the reason. Maybe I'll try it again someday, but I've already doubled my capacity so that should hold me for a while.
You don't need to "Run as administrator" using XP you can run it from an account that has Administrative privileges. Note that this is NOT the case with Vista and Win7.

The other thing to check is the little box that says "Show Connected drives" on the Win MFS main screen. If that isn't checked you won't see the Tivo drive(s)
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:05 PM   #298
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You don't need to "Run as administrator" using XP you can run it from an account that has Administrative privileges. Note that this is NOT the case with Vista and Win7.

The other thing to check is the little box that says "Show Connected drives" on the Win MFS main screen. If that isn't checked you won't see the Tivo drive(s)
I did have that box checked. The only drive it found was a secondary IDE drive. I'm pretty confident the SATA/USB gadget I was trying to use was the problem.
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:41 PM   #299
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I successfully upgraded using these instructions.



The only thing I was not able to do was AAM.
The WD 20EARS i bought from Newegg for $80 did not support AAM

It seems the Firmware on the newer WD drives doesnt support this.
I tried with the Hitachi tool, and HDDscan but both would not work.
Also hdparam -M /dev/sda report that Acousitc Management was not supported.



I dont think it is a big deal, as the drive does not seem to be that noisy.

I now have 318 hour HD, and 2777 hours SD.
Thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread.

------------------------------------------
Heres what I used.

1. I used a WD20EARS drive. 2.0TB SATA , $80 from Newegg
2. wdidle3 boot cd
3. JMFS 1.04 boot cd
4. WinMFS from windows to backup files from original 160GB Tivo SATA drive
5. WinMFS Supersize command


I followed instructions from the first post in this thread.

I did have issues with an old PC recognizing SATA drives, but using a different PC solved this.

Also, I was upgrading an original TIVO 160GB drive, and JMFS worked fine fo this. I guess I might have been able to use WINMFS instead as the drive was not already expanded.

I should have rememberd to delete items from my Tivo Recently Deleted folder, as that would have sped up the copy.
It took about 1 hour plus to copy all the data, which was about 80GB is my guess.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:05 PM   #300
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The Hitachi drive couldn't be quieter.
I meant to come back to this.

After I fired it back up, it turns out that the reason that "the Hitachi drive couldn't have been quieter" was that the rear fan wasn't running. Made it very quiet indeed!

After it was up for a few hours, I felt safe enough to put the rear screws back in the cover. It was then I noticed how hot the case was directly above the HD.

I lifted the cover up and saw that the fan was perfectly still. I flicked it with my finger and it immediately started spinning. I then checked the temp in the System menu and it was 71 degrees.

After a while the temp came back down to normal and I hoped it was a fluke. But I frequently checked the temperature after that and when it happened again, I ordered a new fan from Weaknees. When I removed the original fan, I noticed that the red power lead had slipped out of its channel to the front of the fan and had been pinched between the fan and the rear case grill when originally installed. The pinched portion was really flattened.

Installed the new fan and I've been fine since. But it does make me wonder how long that fan had been malfunctioning and if heat was the real reason my 1TB HD had started to make clicking noises in the first place.
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