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Old 10-11-2011, 09:29 AM   #31
brentil
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Thanks for punching my theory in the gut with using that Advanced Format drive in the Elite TiVo...

Of note though since TiVo is the one building the partitions they can do the partition alignment for factory built devices which negates a lot of the AF issues I had discussed before.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:32 AM   #32
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More motherboard pics

With hard drive removed you can see the Atheros Gigabit Switch (upper right).



Close up of the MoCA driver.



Close up of the Atheros AR8328 Gigabit Switch.



Entropic EN2510 MoCA circuit




1 of 2 hynix H5PS1G63EFR 1GB Ram Chips



Two 1GB Ram Chips



JS28F640 Flash Memory (128MB)


~Sam
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:46 AM   #33
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Awesome information!

Not to get greedy but are there chips on the flip side of the board too like the current non-Elite?
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:32 AM   #34
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This one of the best threads I have read in a long while. This is from another programeer and tech junkie ... Tear it DOWN !!!!
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:38 AM   #35
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The use of flash memory in interesting, there are a few possible uses for it, some good, some less good.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:58 AM   #36
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The use of flash memory in interesting, there are a few possible uses for it, some good, some less good.
The non-Elite has a flash memory chip in the same location but its 8 MB instead of 128 MB. So they either need more storage for new features of the Elite or they're planning on using it for something else, like maybe Preview units too?
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:30 AM   #37
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Valid point. I wasn't aware that the non-Elite has flash. And if a Preview is just a trimmed down Elite, no HDD, one tuner etc, it will need some local storage for the firmware, and it is likely cheaper to just use that same chip on the Elite even if it does not currently need all 128MB.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:57 AM   #38
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Two 1GB Ram Chips
Those are Gb (gigabit) chips not GB (gigabyte).
8 bits = 1 byte

RAM chips tend to be listed in bits not bytes.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:06 PM   #39
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Those are Gb (gigabit) chips not GB (gigabyte).
8 bits = 1 byte

RAM chips tend to be listed in bits not bytes.
Heh, I just looked at the chips right before you posted and saw the 1G in there and thought the same thing. I just let it go until I had time to look up the full part (as 1G could just have randomly been in the part number). You are correct that it is a 1Gb or 128MB chip. There is a good chance there more on the back side of the board. I also didn't say anything b/c the last time I looked at the markings on RAM chips was back in the SDRAM days of old (and then they definitely weren't talking about 1Gb chips...).

I can't read the markings on the Flash chip, but it might be only 16MB... as it might be 128Mb... This would make a lot more sense... 128MB would be a lot and expensive, unless they were going to move more stuff to it. Right now i am betting it is just bios memory.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:20 PM   #40
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Yes you're both correct I'm betting. We're letting excitement get us all riled up and it's making us ignore the basics...

So we have 4 x 128 MB chips = 512 MB of DDR2 RAM (System memory)
and 1 x 16 MB Flash RAM (BIOS/boot)
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:24 PM   #41
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sbiller, you da man! The photos are great!

The gigabit switch is likely used to bridge the MoCA interface to the Ethernet port, it's very likely that the Ethernet port itself is still 10/100, which is a bummer. The lack of a true gigabit port on the premiere is one of the biggest brain dead decisions TiVo made...

Edit: I may have spoken too soon, it looks like the Atheros chip has traces leading DIRECTLY to the RJ-45 port on the back of the premier, can anyone verify that the TiVo is linking up at gigabit? If it is indeed linking up at gigabit, can you try a TiVo To Go or KMTTG transfer and see what speeds you get? Anything over 100mbit would be an indication that the TiVo is in fact connected at gigabit speeds AND is enabled in software.

Last edited by Philmatic : 10-11-2011 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:38 PM   #42
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Awesome information!

Not to get greedy but are there chips on the flip side of the board too like the current non-Elite?
Damn Brentil... I hate a challenge like that. It wasn't easy to remove it but I managed to get the motherboard out of the case. I'm not sure I will be able to get it back in there!

There is a huge discovery on the back. There is another 2GB of RAM on the back from Samsung organized as 64Mx16. I'm a bit confused as to why they would be using a different RAM than the hynix. Part number is Samsung K4T1G164QF. There are qty 2 of these in the middle of the board.

Here is the data sheet --> http://www.samsung.com/global/system...4qf_rev111.pdf

The smaller chips on the bottom are really difficult to make out. They correspond to the black surface mount blocks on the front side of the board. Maybe their decoupling caps or something.






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Old 10-11-2011, 12:45 PM   #43
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Edit: I may have spoken too soon, it looks like the Atheros chip has traces leading DIRECTLY to the RJ-45 port on the back of the premier, can anyone verify that the TiVo is linking up at gigabit? If it is indeed linking up at gigabit, can you try a TiVo To Go or KMTTG transfer and see what speeds you get? Anything over 100mbit would be an indication that the TiVo is in fact connected at gigabit speeds AND is enabled in software.
I was about to point that out as it's a lot easier to follow the traces on this design since it has a lot less stuff on the board.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:46 PM   #44
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Philmatic, going from 100mbit to 1gbit does not mean a ten fold increase in transfer speed, if anything there may be a modest increase, depending on the over all workload.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:52 PM   #45
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sbiller, you da man! The photos are great!

The gigabit switch is likely used to bridge the MoCA interface to the Ethernet port, it's very likely that the Ethernet port itself is still 10/100, which is a bummer. The lack of a true gigabit port on the premiere is one of the biggest brain dead decisions TiVo made...

Edit: I may have spoken too soon, it looks like the Atheros chip has traces leading DIRECTLY to the RJ-45 port on the back of the premier, can anyone verify that the TiVo is linking up at gigabit? If it is indeed linking up at gigabit, can you try a TiVo To Go or KMTTG transfer and see what speeds you get? Anything over 100mbit would be an indication that the TiVo is in fact connected at gigabit speeds AND is enabled in software.

I never even looked at the connection speed on my Switch. I'll have to check to see if it linked up at 100BT or 1000BT.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:52 PM   #46
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Additionally, the photo suggest that an additional unsocket RJ-45 port is located on the right of the Atheros chip. Possibly for the Preview's different alignment and orientation? It's possible it was something they used in development, but I don't see what benefit that would have over the other two network ports (Ethernet and MoCA)
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:57 PM   #47
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I think the real reason it's there too as mentioned is you can have the system in MoCA + Ethernet mode so having an embedded switch allows managing all of those data streams internally allowing intelligent switching of where data should go where.

That region of the motherboard is rather empty now though. I'm guessing the parts there have been moved into one of the items under the mesh cages.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:58 PM   #48
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Philmatic, going from 100mbit to 1gbit does not mean a ten fold increase in transfer speed, if anything there may be a modest increase, depending on the over all workload.
I understand that, but depending on the level of acceleration provided by the Broadcom CPU, you can see up to an eight-fold increase in network transfer speeds, which is definitely a worthwhile upgrade and could change things significantly for MRS and TTG/Streambaby users. Not to mention being able to transfer a 1 hour cable program (At 8mbps bitrate) in HD in less than 30 seconds.
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:43 PM   #49
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What we know so far about the S4 Elite hardware.



Code:
1.  Broadcom BCM7413       System chip
2.  Numonyx JS28F640       16MB Flash ROM
3.  Hynix H5PS1G63EFR      128MB DDR2-800
3b  Samsung K4T1G164QF     128MB DDR2-800
4.  Hynix H5PS1G63EFR      128MB DDR2-800
4b  Samsung K4T1G164QF     128MB DDR2-800
5.  Atheros AR8328         Seven-port Gigabit Ethernet switch
6.  Entropic EN2510        MoCA interface
7.  ???                    Silicon tuner
8.  ???                    Silicon tuner
9.  ???                    ???
10. Pulse C6202NL          MoCA 
11. ???                    HDMI transmitter
12. WD20EURS               2 TB SATA-3 hard drive


b = Second pair of DDR2 memory chips reside on opposite side.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg S4_Elite_Components.jpg (87.2 KB, 23 views)
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:55 PM   #50
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Then we have the S4 versus the S4 Elite showing how much realestate was saved by removing all of the OTA chips. The Switch & MoCA chips look kinda lonely out there all by themselves compared to the amount of stuff packed into the non-Elite design.


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Old 10-11-2011, 01:57 PM   #51
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So, the Elite has the same system memory as the regular Premieres then?
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:58 PM   #52
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Nice job with the labeling and keying of the components!
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:02 PM   #53
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Then we have the S4 versus the S4 Elite showing how much realestate was saved by removing all of the OTA chips. The Switch & MoCA chips look kinda lonely out there all by themselves compared to the amount of stuff packed into the non-Elite design.

Plus the Premiere was designed back in 2009. If it were to be designed today with the same features it would still have less chips since in two years there would be improvements and consolidation with them.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:10 PM   #54
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So, the Elite has the same system memory as the regular Premieres then?
It does look like it is still 512 which could lend to the software improvements is what is lending to the speed increases which is a good thing
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:12 PM   #55
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7. ??? Silicon tuner
8. ??? Silicon tuner
9. ??? ???
[/code]
7 & 8 are likely the two dual QAM tuners and 9 is most likely the QAM tuning switch to manage the 4 tuners. Shame about the 512MB of memory though, it makes sense though when you see that there is 4096Mb of memory on the motherboard and after you divide by 8, you get 512MB.

Great work though!
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:23 PM   #56
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I'll fill in the extra ??? once we know exactly what chips they are. Google is not giving me answers yet.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:51 PM   #57
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I'll fill in the extra ??? once we know exactly what chips they are. Google is not giving me answers yet.
Would be so much easier if TiVo would just release the schematics to us!

Nice job on the numbering. Are you sure your not BKDTV???

~Sam
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:55 PM   #58
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No, just an engineer who loves tech and the TiVos I've had since the S1 first came out. I just for some reason never got into the community until my TiVoHD drive died on me recently.

Once we've got more data sorted out I do plan to build a more concise info thread, right now we're kinda just bouncing all over the place like kids on Christmas morning.
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:35 PM   #59
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No, just an engineer who loves tech and the TiVos I've had since the S1 first came out. I just for some reason never got into the community until my TiVoHD drive died on me recently.

Once we've got more data sorted out I do plan to build a more concise info thread, right now we're kinda just bouncing all over the place like kids on Christmas morning.
Yep. I'm an electrical engineer also. I've had TiVo's since my Philips Series 1. I'm almost embarrassed to call myself an EE after I didn't realize we were talking about megabits instead of megabytes! Its been a long time since I designed circuit cards... now I'm a Systems Engineer!
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:54 PM   #60
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Awesome thread!

I'm an electrician, but not an EE. I did take digital electronics in college and for as long as I can remember, I've liked taking things apart to "see how they work".

@ sbiller, you should have watermarked your photos. All the tech blogs are going to steal them.
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