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Old 09-17-2011, 06:06 PM   #91
Teeps
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The latest from TiVo support:
remove both cable cards
disconnect tuning adapter.
run guided setup, follow the on screen instructions.

I did this yesterday afternoon and into the evening.
As expected GC has yesterday's date.
Guide data cached until 30 Sept.
TiVo did not reboot, did not wipe season passes or to do list.

I will know more next week...
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:56 AM   #92
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As of this morning, GC is still showing Friday 16Sept2011 @ 5:30PM.

I'll give it a few more days, then contact TiVo support again.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:19 AM   #93
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Did you lose your cable card info when you did this? My cg date is 9-16. My tivo seems to be running fine. i havent rebooted it in a long time.

also you should delete everything in the recently deleted folder and delete all old shows


Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
The latest from TiVo support:
remove both cable cards
disconnect tuning adapter.
run guided setup, follow the on screen instructions.

I did this yesterday afternoon and into the evening.
As expected GC has yesterday's date.
Guide data cached until 30 Sept.
TiVo did not reboot, did not wipe season passes or to do list.

I will know more next week...

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Old 09-20-2011, 10:51 AM   #94
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PMFJI, but I just discovered this thread.

Not that it'll help anyone, but I can say that my first-gen S3 (2006) -- two CableCARDS, no tuning adapter -- has never had this issue. Clearly, there are a number of variables involved, given the different S3s out there and the variety of cable-company equipment that may be required, but I can say that this isn't a universal issue.

Bob
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:56 AM   #95
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The problem only occurs on, as far as I've been able to gather, TiVoHDs with Cisco tuning adapters. Since you don't have that combo, you wouldn't see it.... but the combo seems to be common enough out there.
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Old 09-20-2011, 08:02 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tootal2 View Post
Did you lose your cable card info when you did this?
No.

Latest email exchange with TiVo support. They still say that their info shows my TiVo S3 is linked to Time Warner primary service.
That, it needs to be linked to Time Warner Southbay-Gardena,CA Digital, of which I have not seen as an option when viewing channel lineups.
The latest agent has added an additional step, which I hope is the answer...

I will post that info when I know if it works.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:18 AM   #97
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TiVo is now saying I'm on the correct channel lineup; but GC stays stuck on what ever date the channel repair is done.

At this point I'm worn out dealing with this problem.
Just going to limp along, using the work around, until the 4 tuner unit is available...
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:50 PM   #98
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S03 Solution

Through a LOT of trail and error, I've discovered increasing the swap space to 2000 or 2GB allows TiVo to connect to the TiVo Servers and process the large program guide data update. I don't know if you can do this on an existing disk--seems doubtful to me. I used WinMFS on a new disk and have had no problems since. On the same disk I had the trouble with smaller swap partitions, especially the default.
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:58 AM   #99
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Interestingly enough after disconnecting TiVo from the internet for 3 days, after doing the the line up fix. The GC on my S3 updated itself from Monday 26Sept to Wednesday 28Sept.

So anecdotally (for me) the disconnection from the internet appears to have a positive effect. Whether it's permanent is still the question.
And, disconnecting from internet is even easier than doing any of the other temporary fixes.

Here's what was done:
Do channel line up "fix." (if it's been done before use all the defaults.)
Uncheck all unused channels in new line up.
Force a service connection.
After service connection is completed; disconnect TiVo from internet until the GC date changes on its own. This could take a couple of days.
Reconnect TiVo to internet.
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Old 09-30-2011, 02:28 PM   #100
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Teeps,

Teeps clarified that his GC Date updates.
Quote:
Channel Line Up Fix updates the GC Date for me. Your note makes it sound like it does not update for you during Channel Line Up Fix?
I think what you found is very possible!
Based on my "research"
Process called dbgc is responsible for BOTH indexing and garbage collection.

When you do a "Channel Line Up" Fix, this triggers:
- Invalidates all existing guide data.
- During preparing to connect phase dbgc is kicked off in Garbage Collection mode
- During organizing phase (after download and loading) dbgc is kicked off in Quicky index mode. (This causes it to index a day's worth of guide data.)
- Once Quicky indexing is done a GC_INDEX_SOON message is sent to dbgc

Regular daily calls:
- guide data is not invalidated
- preparing to connect phase is not kicking off a GC. - And organizing phase doesn't kick off any indexing.
- Once daily call is complete a GC_INDEX_SOON is sent to dbgc

Eventually GC_INDEX_SOON will kick off dbgc in both cases.
BUT, after "Channel Line Up" fix it only triggers a full index without GC.
After Daily call it triggers a Garbage Collect AND Index together.

When GC runs during "Channel Line Up" fix, all the guide data is invalidated and it runs fairly "quick". I think when GC runs during daily call it takes forever because it is trying to validate all existing guide data. (Otherwise you could not browse the guide or season passes wouldn't record). During this run garbage collection DOES complete and Tivo begins to index guide data. However it cannot finish before next daily call. When next daily call comes around dbgc process is told to quite. Because GC & Indexing wasn't completed (just GC) the exit code is not success -> GC Date is not update, Guide to Date is not updated.

Disconnecting the network connection causes it to never kick off because connection status is checked prior to initiating a call. If daily call is not initiated, dbgc is never told to give up. (I have about 10 days worth of logs and I have yet to see dbgc complete with both fEnableIndexingM=1 fEnableGcM=1 flags on, but I see it complete no problem when only one of those flags is set)

I think this may be a viable solution for *some* people. I use my network connection religiously to transfer shows between tivos & pcs and could not leave my network cable unplugged (I will look if I can restrict my tivo's network port from going past my local lan)

You may have found an improved BANDAID.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
Interestingly enough after disconnecting TiVo from the internet for 3 days, after doing the the line up fix. The GC on my S3 updated itself from Monday 26Sept to Wednesday 28Sept.

So anecdotally (for me) the disconnection from the internet appears to have a positive effect. Whether it's permanent is still the question.
And, disconnecting from internet is even easier than doing any of the other temporary fixes.

Here's what was done:
Do channel line up "fix." (if it's been done before use all the defaults.)
Uncheck all unused channels in new line up.
Force a service connection.
After service connection is completed; disconnect TiVo from internet until the GC date changes on its own. This could take a couple of days.
Reconnect TiVo to internet.


Last edited by trackie999 : 09-30-2011 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:43 PM   #101
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trackie999, is there any evidence of what IS taking place during Preparing on daily conmections? I've always wondered why the length of time on that stage of the connection seems to vary so much.
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Old 09-30-2011, 04:18 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackie999 View Post
Teeps,

Channel Line Up Fix updates the GC Date for me. Your note makes it sound like it does not update for you during Channel Line Up Fix?

My bad.
The GC date changes, to that of, when Channel Line Up fix is run. But, it sticks on the new GC date until... the Channel Line Up fix is repeated...

Or,

Until disconnecting TiVo from internet as stated. (Thanks to Tootal2 for the internet d/c tip.)
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Old 09-30-2011, 07:28 PM   #103
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I was able to set up my router to block one of my TivoHD's access to tivo's guide server at 204.176.49.2 except on Wednesdays.

Blocking this IP address is enough to make daily call fail, but allows other services like Netflix and Youtube to keep working. (I initially blocked the entire 204.176.49.x subnet and neither Netflix or Youtube would work)

GC Date on this Tivo is currently stock on 9/23. I will let it cook for a couple days now....
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:50 PM   #104
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MC Hammer- I'll answer this question, but I'd like to keep this thread on topic.
I believe there are 6 different types of calls with phases 1-8 (phase 0 is call not active). Not all phases happen during each call.

Phase 1 - Call is started, compress and encrypt various log files
Compile list of TV Stations (~7.5mins for my trimmed down 604 stations)
Garbage Collect during set up type calls. (This can vary wildly)
Phase 2 - I do not recall what this phase is. (my calls never have a phase 2)
Phase 3 - Make connection, with ethernet it takes maybe 1 second
Phase 4 - Connect + authenticate + set clock + upload files
Phase 5 - Download guide & other files
Phase 6 - Hang up / Disconnect
Phase 7 - Loading Data 0% -> 100%, Strange thing is GC is disabled, Enabled twice during this process. Why not just keep it off?
Phase 8 - Organizing Phase (run quick indexing after a channel list / guided set up)
Update Call Results, set dates. If successful, update dates send GC_INDEX_SOON request to dbgc.
Phase 0 - Call done / No call Active

So compiling channel list and a potential GC can make "preparing to connect" take forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Hammer View Post
trackie999, is there any evidence of what IS taking place during Preparing on daily conmections? I've always wondered why the length of time on that stage of the connection seems to vary so much.


Last edited by trackie999 : 09-30-2011 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 10-02-2011, 03:16 AM   #105
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Thank you for all the good info.

So sad that TiVo hasn't been able to figure this out sooner. I placed several calls to TiVo a couple of months ago about the S03 problem, and they don't know this stuff. They kept telling me to run kickstart 57 and delete everything (requiring four hours of manually reentering season passes).
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Old 10-02-2011, 04:34 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
Did you try the channel fix?

*INSTRUCTIONS:
go to messages & settings>
settings>
channels>
channel list>
press enter button?

Have 30 to 45 minutes for this procedure, up front, as you have to answer some questions. Once TiVo connects to the server. Turn the tv off and walk away for a couple of hours..
I just did this. Answered the questions (default answers)

It's been "preparing..." for 1hr 30min so far.

How long do I wait?

When should I give up and reboot?
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:30 AM   #107
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pninen,
It may take up to 12 hours for preparing to connect, be patient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pninen View Post
I just did this. Answered the questions (default answers)

It's been "preparing..." for 1hr 30min so far.

How long do I wait?

When should I give up and reboot?

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Old 10-02-2011, 10:48 AM   #108
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This past Monday I returned from an extended vacation. Before I left, I was having the GC problem, but the channel change fix from Teeps was fixing it. I disconnected the tuning adapter before I left. 11 days later when I returned, the GC was totally current, but I had missed some recording on channels that I did not realize were SDV. I had assumed only HD channels were affected, but this was a plain digital channel. I guess TWC really needs the bandwidth. Since I have turned on the tuning adapter, the symptoms have returned.

At any rate, this totally confirms for me, which we already knew, that the tuning adapter is the culprit. What I don't understand is why does it only affect an apparently small number of users? For me, it started last April when I upgraded from a 1 TB drive to a 2 TB drive. I have no idea why - plenty of others have also upgraded with no problems - I assume SOME of those people have tuning adapters. And why was the 1 TB upgrade working perfectly?

I'm waiting to hear from Teeps if the internet disconnect does anything permanent. It makes sense to me that it would work one time based on what trackie999 said about timing of GC updates, but it would seem that once the internet was back to being connected permanently, the symptoms would return.

We shall see. In the meantime, the channel fix seems to be the best solution. Thanks Teeps.
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:10 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WO312 View Post
I'm waiting to hear from Teeps if the internet disconnect does anything permanent.
No joy.
I just checked GC and it was still at Wednesday 28Sept2011.

TiVo had successfully connected to internet Sunday 2Oct2011 @ 0242 hrs PST.
The internet was disconnected today @ 0803 hrs PST.
Note: At this time, the "Channel Line Up" fix was not executed.

Should know in a couple of days if GC changes.
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:59 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
No joy.
I just checked GC and it was still at Wednesday 28Sept2011.

TiVo had successfully connected to internet Sunday 2Oct2011 @ 0242 hrs PST.
The internet was disconnected today @ 0803 hrs PST.
Note: At this time, the "Channel Line Up" fix was not executed.

Should know in a couple of days if GC changes.
I predict that it will change. Then when you re-connect it will fail again.

I'm debating whether the best fix for me is to do the channel fix every few days or disconnect for a day or two every few days.
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:27 PM   #111
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You can permanently delete everythng in the recently deleted folder. it does seem to help.

Just press clear and then press select to delete the programs

Quote:
Originally Posted by WO312 View Post
I predict that it will change. Then when you re-connect it will fail again.

I'm debating whether the best fix for me is to do the channel fix every few days or disconnect for a day or two every few days.

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Old 10-02-2011, 04:14 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tootal2 View Post
You can permanently delete everythng in the recently deleted folder. it does seem to help.

Just press clear and then press select to delete the programs
I've been keeping my folder pretty empty. Doesn't seem to help me.
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:13 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackie999 View Post
pninen,
It may take up to 12 hours for preparing to connect, be patient.
Thank you. It finally finished, and my TiVo works again!

It is just astonishing how long this takes. (Computers execute BILLIONS of instructions per second!) Does this garbage collection run starved for memory?
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Old 10-03-2011, 04:10 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pninen View Post
Thank you. It finally finished, and my TiVo works again!

It is just astonishing how long this takes. (Computers execute BILLIONS of instructions per second!) Does this garbage collection run starved for memory?
I am going to assume that your GC date was pretty old, and there was a lot of garbage to collect. You should monitor the GC date, and if it doesn't update regularly, do the channel fix every 3 days or so. Then the "preparing to connect" doesn't take too long.
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:23 PM   #115
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Can you all confirm the current theory on S03 failure mode as follows:
  • Indexing and GC take a very long time on a TiVo with Tuning Adapter, presumably because the Tuning Adapter opens up many more channels than before available, requiring more guide data and info to index and GC on.
  • If the GC takes longer than 24 hours, then a chron job of some sort kills it and restarts it, therefore once the TiVo enters this loop it can never get out
  • GC must complete in order for the TiVo to successfully load guide data in the last step of connecting to the TiVo's servers, and therefore the TiVo never successfully connects to the server and fails with the S03 error
  • A manual restart of the TiVo either causes GC to complete or clear the GC Flag, which gets the TiVo out of the GC restart loop and the S03 error loop
  • Eventually there is so much Garbage to collect that even restarting does not get the TiVo out of the S03 loop

My solution of increasing the Swap partition, which has been solid for me so far the last month or so, suggests that the TiVo is thrashing during GC and/or indexing. I think the limited memory budget is too small and the TiVo has to swap too much to process the large amount of GC and/or indexing data before the chron jobs restarts it.

Your thoughts?
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:13 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravingfans View Post
Can you all confirm the current theory on S03 failure mode as follows:
  • Indexing and GC take a very long time on a TiVo with Tuning Adapter, presumably because the Tuning Adapter opens up many more channels than before available, requiring more guide data and info to index and GC on.
  • If the GC takes longer than 24 hours, then a chron job of some sort kills it and restarts it, therefore once the TiVo enters this loop it can never get out
  • GC must complete in order for the TiVo to successfully load guide data in the last step of connecting to the TiVo's servers, and therefore the TiVo never successfully connects to the server and fails with the S03 error
  • A manual restart of the TiVo either causes GC to complete or clear the GC Flag, which gets the TiVo out of the GC restart loop and the S03 error loop
  • Eventually there is so much Garbage to collect that even restarting does not get the TiVo out of the S03 loop

My solution of increasing the Swap partition, which has been solid for me so far the last month or so, suggests that the TiVo is thrashing during GC and/or indexing. I think the limited memory budget is too small and the TiVo has to swap too much to process the large amount of GC and/or indexing data before the chron jobs restarts it.

Your thoughts?
Thanks for the post. Any attempt to get to the bottom of the problem is refreshing, like trackie999 did earlier.

In my opinion, it sounds plausible, but I have a few questions/comments:

1. I doubt that the tuning adapter adds THAT many more channels compared to the huge list of channels that I have available. I think it's something else associated with the tuning adapter

2. If this is correct, shouldn't this be happening on every Tivo with a tuning adapter (and presumably an upgraded drive)? Why such an apparently small number of machines being affected?

3. If it IS related to a large number of channels, can I eliminate the problem by de-selecting channels from the channel list? I only use a small number of channels.

4. If swap file size matters, any way to change it? I don't recall even an option of selecting the size with the jfms method that you need for a 2 TB drive.

5. If the larger swap size is working for you, did you have the problem before on a different, upgraded drive?
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:36 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravingfans View Post
Can you all confirm the current theory on S03 failure mode as follows:
  • Indexing and GC take a very long time on a TiVo with Tuning Adapter, presumably because the Tuning Adapter opens up many more channels than before available, requiring more guide data and info to index and GC on.
The only thing the TA is sending to the Tivo are channel map updates. These are not related to the Tivo Channel List.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:51 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WO312 View Post
3. If it IS related to a large number of channels, can I eliminate the problem by de-selecting channels from the channel list? I only use a small number of channels.
I also have this problem (Cary, NC with Time Warner and TivoHD with upgraded hard drive) and tried de-selecting a bunch of channels (everything below 900) and it has not made a difference so far. The GC date is not updating. It's now about one week behind, which correspond to the last time I did the channel lineup trick.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:19 PM   #119
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I am trying the only letting TiVo connect once a week option. If more users have success with the new swap file size I will try it. I have tried 1GB and did not see a change. With JMS and 2TB drive you will need to take a back up with WinMSF and then restore it to another drive change the swap file size then use JMS to copy that drive to your old one and then back to WinMSF to supersize. I think this is all tied into the suggestion bug too. On a clean drive the suggestions stop when the GC stops updating. You can force a update but the suggestions never return. One other note….. TivoGuy where are you….
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:39 PM   #120
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My Comments to WO312's questions below:

Thanks for the post. Any attempt to get to the bottom of the problem is refreshing, like trackie999 did earlier.

Trackie999 is looking at my daily logs to confirm if this is a viable path for y'all.

In my opinion, it sounds plausible, but I have a few questions/comments:

1. I doubt that the tuning adapter adds THAT many more channels compared to the huge list of channels that I have available. I think it's something else associated with the tuning adapter

Probably true. Guess on my part as to the reason for the Tuning Adapter association with the problem--I'm open to other theories.

2. If this is correct, shouldn't this be happening on every Tivo with a tuning adapter (and presumably an upgraded drive)? Why such an apparently small number of machines being affected?

Might be just a matter of time, but the common points appear to be Tuning Adapter, large upgraded drive. I'm wondering what the population of upgraded S3 and up TiVo's is, and how many just give up on the problem?

3. If it IS related to a large number of channels, can I eliminate the problem by de-selecting channels from the channel list? I only use a small number of channels.

de-selecting channels did not work for me on either the old disks or the new disk. I also tried through guided setup to switch to a remote area of the country with limited channel selections and it had no effect.

4. If swap file size matters, any way to change it? I don't recall even an option of selecting the size with the jfms method that you need for a 2 TB drive.

I don't know with JMFS, since I have the original S3 TiVo, that tool is not an option for me. I used WinMFS on a new 2TB drive, and it does allow you the option to set the swap partition to an arbitrary value. I had trouble one time with 4GB of swap--I think I made some other error on that run, but I've found 2GB to be quite solid. I tried 512MB and 1TB once or twice, but they didn't change the behavior.

My thought is on an existing drive it will be quite tricky to change the swap partition without affecting other partitions. Likely you will lose recordings etc--basically anything on partitions past the swap partition which is partition 8. The next partition, 9, is /var which is no biggie to lose, just will lose any logs and also hacks you have installed in that partition, as TiVo will just rebuild it on the next restart. The problem with that though is /var is only 256MB typically, and partition 10, 11 and 12 are in the same range of size and they are the MFS application and MFS media regions. Changing the swap on an already built drive will be tricky to say the least. The path I took was to pick up a 2TB Drive which allows me to keep my shows and settings intact and migrate when I'm ready. Also gives me troubleshooting options if something doesn't go perfectly ;-)

5. If the larger swap size is working for you, did you have the problem before on a different, upgraded drive?

I had the S03 problem on my original setup which was Weaknees 1TB internal + 1TB external (working for 3 years reliably). Then when I set up a new 2TB drive, the problem persisted even when restoring from the original 250GB drive that came in the S3 as well as the upgraded 1TB + 1TB configuration. This is when I started trying different swap partition sizes.
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