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Old 08-20-2011, 12:20 PM   #7951
dbenrosen
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dd_rescue finally finished after 24 hours. It told me there were many errors. I expanded the size on the drive (figured it was worth a shot since I had it connected) and that seemed to work using mfsadd.

I then placed the TiVo in my S3 and powered up. Got to the "Almost there..." screen, the GSOD. I'm hoping this will actually be a good thing and fix the TiVo. I'll probably be able to tell in the morning, since 3 hours will be around 1:30am.
It restarted after the GSOD, but kept rebooting. I finally decided to ditch it and did a restore from a "virgin" S3 image I was able to download. Everything came back up (after a C&DE), but when I install the cablecards, I don't get them. The TiVo knows they are there as I see them listed as being inserted, but when I go to the configuration screen, it says Cablecard 1 is not in normal operation.

Any thoughts? I am speaking with Verizon now as I type this. I am trying to use my known working Cablecard from my other TiVo in it now, but I am getting the same message.
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Old 08-20-2011, 12:38 PM   #7952
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It restarted after the GSOD, but kept rebooting. I finally decided to ditch it and did a restore from a "virgin" S3 image I was able to download. Everything came back up (after a C&DE), but when I install the cablecards, I don't get them. The TiVo knows they are there as I see them listed as being inserted, but when I go to the configuration screen, it says Cablecard 1 is not in normal operation.

Any thoughts? I am speaking with Verizon now as I type this. I am trying to use my known working Cablecard from my other TiVo in it now, but I am getting the same message.
I don't do cable, but I believe a C&DE erases any cable card pairing you had. So if Verizon had to pair them to your TiVo originally, that will have to be done again. Right? I'm assuming that they won't work until they're paired.
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Old 08-20-2011, 12:47 PM   #7953
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I don't do cable, but I believe a C&DE erases any cable card pairing you had. So if Verizon had to pair them to your TiVo originally, that will have to be done again. Right? I'm assuming that they won't work until they're paired.
Verizon doesn't (or at least didn't) pair cards to specific devices (like a TiVo). The problem is occurring before that point. In order to pair it to the device, I would need to get information off of the Cablecard info screen, which I cannot get to. That screen contains hostid, etc., that Verizon would need.

I did some more searching, and it appears the problem may be because the software version is so very old (original 8.x). So I am in the hoping that getting a newer version will fix the problem as documented in this post . I'll let you know if that works.
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Old 08-20-2011, 12:51 PM   #7954
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It restarted after the GSOD, but kept rebooting. I finally decided to ditch it and did a restore from a "virgin" S3 image I was able to download. Everything came back up (after a C&DE), but when I install the cablecards, I don't get them. The TiVo knows they are there as I see them listed as being inserted, but when I go to the configuration screen, it says Cablecard 1 is not in normal operation.

Any thoughts? I am speaking with Verizon now as I type this. I am trying to use my known working Cablecard from my other TiVo in it now, but I am getting the same message.
Only thing I can think of is maybe there is an issue with the Tivo software version. Check the version in the system info. Then force a couple of connections to Tivo and see if it updates. Maybe that will help.

edit: Beat me to it.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:58 PM   #7955
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The software update fixed the cablecard issue and my TiVo is now up and running, sans Season Passes. I will have to reenter them as I don't think I backed them up on TiVo.com. But my TiVo is working, and that is the most important thing. Thanks for the help.
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:30 AM   #7956
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The software update fixed the cablecard issue and my TiVo is now up and running, sans Season Passes. I will have to reenter them as I don't think I backed them up on TiVo.com. But my TiVo is working, and that is the most important thing. Thanks for the help.
Nice. Glad things worked out and enjoy!
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Old 08-21-2011, 03:41 PM   #7957
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Note 1 TiB limit on partitions for Series 3 gone

I just did an upgrade to a 2TB disk for my Series 3 DVR. I used MFSlive and was able to ignore the 1TB limit restriction and added a new 1600gb media partition which is working fine. I didn't see any info that this was possible apart from a discussion about how one could use JMFS from Premiere to do such an upgrade. However, that appeared to involve adding a 4th media/app partition pair.

I have recorded 1500gb of programs to test this and the DVR works fine. I did use the -r 4 option to double the default blocking factor so I guess that might have helped.
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:51 AM   #7958
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I just did an upgrade to a 2TB disk for my Series 3 DVR. I used MFSlive and was able to ignore the 1TB limit restriction and added a new 1600gb media partition which is working fine. I didn't see any info that this was possible apart from a discussion about how one could use JMFS from Premiere to do such an upgrade. However, that appeared to involve adding a 4th media/app partition pair.

I have recorded 1500gb of programs to test this and the DVR works fine. I did use the -r 4 option to double the default blocking factor so I guess that might have helped.
What is the model number of your Tivo?
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:02 PM   #7959
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1TB partition size limit gone

The Tivo Series 3 that I upgraded with a 1600gb media partition is TCD648250 which is the original series3. This was also the original 250gb disk so I have two other approximately 100gb media partitions with 3 total sets using all the space on the 2Tb drive.
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Old 08-25-2011, 03:44 PM   #7960
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Please excuse this post being a little off-topic. I just bought 2 WDEARS drives from Newegg for a NAS box. I know that these are are pretty popular drives for Tivo upgrades--I have the 1TB models in my Tivos.

The reviews at Newegg for the 2TB drives are pretty poor--3 out of 5 checks-- citing high DOA/infant mortality rates. It seem like most of the problems are fairly recent, August, 2011.

I'm wondering if any Tivo users are experiencing these kinds of early failures, especially since the drives are running constantly? Or, did Newegg just get a bad batch?
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Old 08-25-2011, 04:44 PM   #7961
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Please excuse this post being a little off-topic. I just bought 2 WDEARS drives from Newegg for a NAS box. I know that these are are pretty popular drives for Tivo upgrades--I have the 1TB models in my Tivos.

The reviews at Newegg for the 2TB drives are pretty poor--3 out of 5 checks-- citing high DOA/infant mortality rates. It seem like most of the problems are fairly recent, August, 2011.

I'm wondering if any Tivo users are experiencing these kinds of early failures, especially since the drives are running constantly? Or, did Newegg just get a bad batch?
The WD20EARS in our TiVo Premiere has been flawless for about a year now.

FWIW I've found Newegg reviews to be so-so for a couple of reasons. First their drive packaging used to be horrendous (OEM clamshell bouncing around inside an empty box at times). That has improved markedly recently though. Second, as with any service or product folks that have problems tend to complain whereas satisfied customers tend to not take the time to post a review. For better or worse Newegg is also more frequently patronized by "techies" that have a higher demand threshold than general consumers.

The same drive on Amazon has almost 500 reviews with an average of 4 out of 5 rating with almost 300 5 star as opposed to about 100 1 and 2 star combined (and even some of those have nothing to do with the drive, but some oddity to do with the delivery or something). That would put the return rate at around 20%.

With respect to TiVo, although the hard drive is running 24/7, the data throughput is less demanding than for most home computers. Add to that the widely held position that continually powering a hard drive up and down has a bigger negative impact on lifespan than one that has a steady power flow and it's likely that drives used in TiVo's are no more likely to fail (and possibly less so) than drives being used in other situations.

All of that said it doesn't appear that the failure rate for the WD20EARS is any worse and sometimes is better than for other similar hard drives.

So the bottom line IMO and based on the success rates for folks upgrading TiVo's for five years or more is that the WD GP drives have a consistent positive track record (and why TiVo continues to use them as OEM hard drives). YMMV of course and others may have some additional feedback.

For anyone wanting to get a deeper understanding of hard drive failure rates, causes, etc. Google did an excellent study a little while back. It's a bit dated now but still referred to by some of the experts.

http://static.googleusercontent.com/...k_failures.pdf

One of their conclusions...

Quote:
One of our key findings has been the lack of a consistent pattern of higher failure rates for higher temperature drives or for those drives at higher utilization levels. Such correlations have been repeatedly highlighted by previous studies, but we are unable to confirm them by observing our population. Although our data do not allow us to conclude that there is no such correlation, it provides strong evidence to suggest that other effects may be more prominent in affecting disk drive reliability in the context of a professionally managed data center deployment.

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Old 08-25-2011, 05:07 PM   #7962
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Thanks for your insight, Rich Tivo & iPad friend).
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:16 PM   #7963
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Thanks for your insight, Rich Tivo & iPad friend).

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Old 08-25-2011, 10:25 PM   #7964
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The WD20EARS in our TiVo Premiere has been flawless for about a year now.

FWIW I've found Newegg reviews to be so-so for a couple of reasons. First their drive packaging used to be horrendous (OEM clamshell bouncing around inside an empty box at times). That has improved markedly recently though. Second, as with any service or product folks that have problems tend to complain whereas satisfied customers tend to not take the time to post a review. For better or worse Newegg is also more frequently patronized by "techies" that have a higher demand threshold than general consumers.

The same drive on Amazon has almost 500 reviews with an average of 4 out of 5 rating with almost 300 5 star as opposed to about 100 1 and 2 star combined (and even some of those have nothing to do with the drive, but some oddity to do with the delivery or something). That would put the return rate at around 20%.

With respect to TiVo, although the hard drive is running 24/7, the data throughput is less demanding than for most home computers. Add to that the widely held position that continually powering a hard drive up and down has a bigger negative impact on lifespan than one that has a steady power flow and it's likely that drives used in TiVo's are no more likely to fail (and possibly less so) than drives being used in other situations.

All of that said it doesn't appear that the failure rate for the WD20EARS is any worse and sometimes is better than for other similar hard drives.

So the bottom line IMO and based on the success rates for folks upgrading TiVo's for five years or more is that the WD GP drives have a consistent positive track record (and why TiVo continues to use them as OEM hard drives). YMMV of course and others may have some additional feedback.

For anyone wanting to get a deeper understanding of hard drive failure rates, causes, etc. Google did an excellent study a little while back. It's a bit dated now but still referred to by some of the experts.

http://static.googleusercontent.com/...k_failures.pdf

One of their conclusions...
NewEgg reviews are more likely to actually be for the product to which they are attached than Amazon reviews.
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Old 08-26-2011, 01:10 AM   #7965
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NewEgg reviews are more likely to actually be for the product to which they are attached than Amazon reviews.
True enough, however IMO they are also more likely to be of the negative variety on Newegg as well as for products that are put into much more intensive service than TiVo demands. That's six of one and half a dozen of another if the drive is DOA or fails immediately of course.

Part of the positive/negative difference is also with how the two companies handle returns; Amazon making it as easy as possible while Newegg doing just the opposite (both in my experience at least). Again, satisfied customers don't tend to make as much noise as unhappy ones.
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Old 08-26-2011, 01:24 AM   #7966
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True enough, however IMO they are also more likely to be of the negative variety on Newegg as well as for products that are put into much more intensive service than TiVo demands. That's six of one and half a dozen of another if the drive is DOA or fails immediately of course.

Part of the positive/negative difference is also with how the two companies handle returns; Amazon making it as easy as possible while Newegg doing just the opposite (both in my experience at least). Again, satisfied customers don't tend to make as much noise as unhappy ones.
With Amazon you're likely to get reviews for the 500GB, 750, or 1TB version of a drive attached to the page where they're selling the 2TB, or to get reviews for a different model number at the same capacity.

Since pages on Amazon are for both Amazon and other sellers, this greatly increases the chance for review confusion.

Also, compared to NE, there's an even greater chance of the pictures or description being not entirely correct, although the record may be when I ordered a couple of WD server-type drives last spring only to find out that was what was in their database matched to a part number from Price Pros that was actually for "adult lubricant"

At least now I know why the price was so low.
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:36 AM   #7967
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With Amazon you're likely to get reviews for the 500GB, 750, or 1TB version of a drive attached to the page where they're selling the 2TB, or to get reviews for a different model number at the same capacity.

Since pages on Amazon are for both Amazon and other sellers, this greatly increases the chance for review confusion.

Also, compared to NE, there's an even greater chance of the pictures or description being not entirely correct, although the record may be when I ordered a couple of WD server-type drives last spring only to find out that was what was in their database matched to a part number from Price Pros that was actually for "adult lubricant"

At least now I know why the price was so low.
Well...I guess that could be considered a "bonus".
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Old 08-27-2011, 10:05 AM   #7968
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With over a year of 24/7 use; the Fantom Drive is still churning along.
As of yesterday, the Fantom Drive is off line. Due to installation of a 2TB internal drive upgrade purchased (Ebay store) from dvr_dude.
TiVo Series 3 TCD648250B Hard Drive Upgrade 2TB WD AVGP

I wanted to let others know the Fantom Drive was working without a problem since installed on 4-OCT-2008.

I'd say I got my $$$$ worth of use from it.

Last edited by Teeps : 08-28-2011 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:40 AM   #7969
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As of yesterday, the Fantom Drive is off line. Due to installation of a 2TB internal drive upgrade purchased (Ebay store) from dvr_dude.
TiVo Series 3 TCD648250B Hard Drive Upgrade 2TB WD AVGP

I wanted to let others know the Fantom Drive was working without a problem since installed in 2008.

I'd say I got my $$$$ worth of use from it.
Thanks for that...good to know. IIRC Fantoms utilize WD GP drives so that's a bit of additional good news with respect to their longevity.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:45 PM   #7970
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Okay, this thread is very long and I think my brain is mush at this point so I'm getting a little confused.

I have a TivoHD. It was still stock until yesterday. I had a 400GB Seagate drive lying around and got a bug in my bonnet to upgrade the HD. Everything went very well. Drive seems to work fine. However, it's loud. Also, obviously, hard drives these days are pretty cheap. So, I'm thinking I'll go ahead and buy a bigger, quieter drive and upgrade to that.

I have three drive choices: A Western Digital 1TB AV-GP (WD10EURS - $70), a Western Digital 1.5TB Caviar Green (WD15EARS - $60), or a Hitachi 2TB Deskstar 5K3000 (0F12117 - $70).

Since I just did the upgrade yesterday, there's no problem for me to hook up the original drive and do the upgrade again. If I read correctly, the problem with the WD Green drives has been resolved by either WD, TiVo or both. I am still confused on whether my upper capacity limit is 1.26TB which would obviously color my choices of replacement hard drive.

I used the latest WinMFS tool (9.3f) and did a full copy of recordings and all. Three settings confused me, so I didn't mess with them. One was the Supersize function. The other two were options in MFScopy. I recall one is "Custom Linux Swap Size" and don't remember the other.

I appreciate any and all help from you all. If this all goes well, I'll likely upgrade the hard drive in my old Series 2 as well, although I gather it will have further limitations.

Thanks!

<Edit: One odd thing to note: For some reason, Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select doesn't seem to work after my upgrade.>

Last edited by Gowan : 08-27-2011 at 04:56 PM. Reason: Additional Information
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:11 PM   #7971
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Okay, this thread is very long and I think my brain is mush at this point so I'm getting a little confused.!
Here is what I would do...

1. Buy either the 2TB WD20EARS or the WD20EURS drive. The rule of thumb is to always buy as much storage as you can afford and they only cost a few dollars more than the one's you've listed.

When it comes to TiVo the only difference between the two is that the WD20EURS is a dedicated A/V drive and is a bit quieter. However if you want to add one more step to the upgrade process you can easily change the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) in the WD20EARS to match that of the WD20EURS at 128 by using the PARM function in the jmfs program.

Both drives may need the Intellipark feature adjusted to avoid boot or menu restart hangs. See Section IV, #29 of the first post on this FAQ for details:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...60#post5616160

The 2TB Hitachi Coolspin you've listed is an option and IIRC being used by a couple of folks here but they haven't been on the market long enough to make a recommendation one way or another. That drive would not need the Intellipark adjustment the WD drives might require and the AAM cannot be adjusted so it takes a little less time and effort for an upgrade.

2. Use your original TiVo hard drive and the jmfs program to upgrade. Here's the link to the program and all of the instructions needed:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=462179

You seem to know your way around your TiVo and a computer, so I think you'll find jmfs a cakewalk.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:28 PM   #7972
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I just ordered a WD drive (1TB) to upgrade the HD on my second TiVoHD and was planning on disabling the Intellipark via an SATA dual slot external drive (ThermalTake) that connects via USB to my Windows software via VMWare on my Mac. I now see the statement that the wdidle3 program cannot be run via such an attachment (I have no other computer). Does this still hold true?

Last edited by teasip : 08-27-2011 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 08-27-2011, 06:23 PM   #7973
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I just ordered a WD drive (1TB) to upgrade the HD on my second TiVoHD and was planning on disabling the Intellipark via an SATA dual slot external drive (ThermalTake) that connects via USB to my Windows software via VMWare on my Mac. I now see the statement that the wdidle3 program cannot be run via such an attachment (I have no other computer). Does this still hold true?
Still true. If you want to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark setting you'll need to connect the hard drive directly to a SATA port on the motherboard or some have used a SATA PCI card.

Not sure if you were planning on using the dual dock to upgrade by putting the OEM and new drive in as well, but that won't work either. You can use the dock, but only one drive in it will be recognized. You'd need an additional dock or SATA/USB adapter.
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:13 PM   #7974
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Thanks for the confirmation. I was able to cancel my online order for the WD HD after seeing your post. Next option will be to consider upgrading with one of our sponsors or just leave it at the OEM 160GB state.
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:40 PM   #7975
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Okay, this thread is very long and I think my brain is mush at this point so I'm getting a little confused.

I have a TivoHD. It was still stock until yesterday. I had a 400GB Seagate drive lying around and got a bug in my bonnet to upgrade the HD. Everything went very well. Drive seems to work fine. However, it's loud. Also, obviously, hard drives these days are pretty cheap. So, I'm thinking I'll go ahead and buy a bigger, quieter drive and upgrade to that.

I have three drive choices: A Western Digital 1TB AV-GP (WD10EURS - $70), a Western Digital 1.5TB Caviar Green (WD15EARS - $60), or a Hitachi 2TB Deskstar 5K3000 (0F12117 - $70).
I'm mostly with richsadams here except I would definitely go with the WD20EARS. Both Newegg and Amazon have it for $70, free shipping.

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Originally Posted by Gowan View Post
Since I just did the upgrade yesterday, there's no problem for me to hook up the original drive and do the upgrade again. If I read correctly, the problem with the WD Green drives has been resolved by either WD, TiVo or both. I am still confused on whether my upper capacity limit is 1.26TB which would obviously color my choices of replacement hard drive.
if you use JMFS, the 1.26TB limit doesn't apply. 2.11TB is the limit. That's right kiddies, for TiVos, 2.11TB is the new 137GB, except you can't even use a drive > 2.11TB.

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I used the latest WinMFS tool (9.3f) and did a full copy of recordings and all. Three settings confused me, so I didn't mess with them. One was the Supersize function. The other two were options in MFScopy. I recall one is "Custom Linux Swap Size" and don't remember the other.
Note that while you need to do the actual upgrade with JMFS, you must use WinMFS to Supersize it.

As to what Supersize is - the following is from the first post of this thread:

What does the "MfsSupersize" option do?

By default, roughly 10% of the internal drive is reserved for "tivoclips" -- video advertisements that are downloaded to the TiVo. If you use the MfsSupersize option on an internal drive upgrade, then only 10GB will be reserved for advertisements and the rest of the space is recovered for use with recordings.

Without MfsSupersize, a 1TB drive will add ~144 HD hours. With MfsSupersize, a 1TB drive will add ~157 HD hours.

There are no known ill effects associated with the Supersize option. In fact, TiVo appears to use that option on its own TivoHD XL (1TB) to provide 157 HD hours.


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Old 08-28-2011, 01:36 AM   #7976
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Thanks for the confirmation. I was able to cancel my online order for the WD HD after seeing your post. Next option will be to consider upgrading with one of our sponsors or just leave it at the OEM 160GB state.
OR...you could use this Hitachi 2TB drive to upgrade your TiVo HD instead...

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Deskst...4513181&sr=8-1

Although it's new several folks here have successfully upgraded their TiVo's with it.

The 1TB version is an option as well (but I'd go w/2TB since the cost is only a few dollars more)...

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Deskst...4513670&sr=1-7

That would eliminate adjusting anything as Hitachi's don't use "Intellipark" and the AAM (Auto Acoustic Management) can't be changed (the audio specs are about equal to the TiVo OEM drive).

The jmfs program will work the same...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=462179

Problem solved?

Last edited by richsadams : 08-28-2011 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 08-28-2011, 01:39 AM   #7977
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Note that while you need to do the actual upgrade with JMFS, you must use WinMFS to Supersize it.
Since the OP already knows how to use winMFS that shouldn't be an issue.
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Old 08-28-2011, 05:18 AM   #7978
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Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post

if you use JMFS, the 1.26TB limit doesn't apply. 2.11TB is the limit. That's right kiddies, for TiVos, 2.11TB is the new 137GB, except you can't even use a drive > 2.11TB.
This quote is from a response to an OP that has a TiVoHD; Does this also apply to a TiVo S3? ....Fingers crossed.
Prices are down and I'm three years on my current Seagate 1TB upgrade.....Just looking to the near future.

Thanks,
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:38 AM   #7979
lpwcomp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrider2 View Post
This quote is from a response to an OP that has a TiVoHD; Does this also apply to a TiVo S3? ....Fingers crossed.
Prices are down and I'm three years on my current Seagate 1TB upgrade.....Just looking to the near future.

Thanks,
I don't believe you can use JMFS for a TiVo 3, so the limit* still applies

* The limit for a TiVo 3 is apparently a bit higher: 1.35GB.
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Last edited by lpwcomp : 08-28-2011 at 10:19 AM. Reason: add footnote
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:43 AM   #7980
lpwcomp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Since the OP already knows how to use winMFS that shouldn't be an issue.
I know he does. And I know the caveat is in the instructions for using JMFS to upgrade a THD. I just wanted to make he sure he was aware of it.
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