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Old 06-18-2011, 12:33 PM   #991
Ely105
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This is more of an FYI message. I decided to use the Seagate ST2000DL003 2TB drive in my Tivo Premiere (320G) upgrade. I used the CD to copy, expand and supersize on the drive and I saw no errors or issues at any point. When I installed it and powered up the Tivo it appeared stuck on the "Welcome powering up screen". After many minutes I power cycled and saw the same result. so i left it be while I tried the same process on a second drive (maybe the drive was a bum). Next morning saw the same results with a new drive but on the 3rd try (literally 3rd time was a charm) it proceeded past the power up screen and all the way into the tivo welcome video and menus. After several restarts it appears to be able to always boot correctly. I'm not sure why it froze on the first two attempts but hopefully I won't see that condition again. Thanks again for the easy utility. Hopefully someday we'll get USB 3.0 drivers in Linux so it doesn't take 6 hours to copy using USB2.
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Old 06-18-2011, 12:51 PM   #992
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Do you have a USB-Bluetooth dongle installed in your TiVo Premiere? That's been known to cause similar issues. Unplugging that before rebooting can help.
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Old 06-18-2011, 03:22 PM   #993
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After some investigation, it looks like the issues with these motherboards have nothing to do with Xpress Recovery2 (that one has to be manually installed and invoked), but with BIOS backup to hard drive. The associated HPA is supposed to be small - 2113 sectors (but enough to hose the drive, of course). My motherboard does not have an option to turn it off, and when I ran hdparm, it confirmed HPA of exactly that size on primary drive. Secondary drive does not have HPA, but that drive was put in there already partitioned (from a failed external enclosure), so I can’t be sure that it would not do the same kind of thing if it were considered blank (i.e. I am not completely sure that sacrificial drive thing will work). Also, some people say that this BIOS backup may not be on the drive with first SATA port (as Xpress Recovery2 is), but on the drive that initializes first (presumably frequently the same thing, but not always).
My daughter’s computer has a slightly newer version of the motherboard (GA-EG45-UD2H), and that one also had 2113-sector HPA on its only drive. However, that one has a BIOS option “Backup BIOS to HDD” (not in the manual, by the way), which seems to be exactly what is needed (it is on by default). There is a potential issue that some say this option does not really work.

I am left with several choices:
1. a) Hook up both drives using USB (get SATA->USB). On the up side, it should not create HPA on those. On the down side, it is slower, and I think wdidle does not work with USB; I’d really like to set it to more than 8s, it seems that it would be good for longevity sake.
1.b) get non-WD drive that does not need wdidle, the rest like a)
2. Hook up blank drive using eSATA enclosure, and hook up Tivo drive using USB. Maybe wdidle will work? Anybody knows?
3. Put blank drive inside computer, and hook up Tivo drive using USB. This would be handy, as then wdidle thing should work. On the down side, HPA may be created on the blank drive, but if it is created on a blank drive before jmfs is even started, that should not prevent it from working fine in Tivo, right???
4. Put blank drive inside computer, and hook up Tivo drive using eSATA. Similar to 3, but faster. Downside - slightly increased chance of Tivo drive getting hosed with HPA.
5. Put both drives in the computer, leaving original HDD with HPA in as well, and hope that either “Backup BIOS to HDD” setting will work, or that motherboard will not feel the need to do backup on more than one drive.

Any ideas/recommendations?
When Unitron talked about Gigabytre MB's causing problems, I ignored it as I used a GA-EP35-DS3P MB for 90% of my testing JMFS. It has Express Recovery I and I never had a problem with my copies or stock drives. And as you said ER has to be manually invoked, I suppose it is possible to happen otherwise.... but who knows.

Now that you mention the Bios backup to HDD option, I checked the manual and that option is not available. Since I no longer have that MB I can't check to see if it really is there.

I also have a GA-EP45-US3P and on page 51 that option is there.

Quote:
Dual BIOS Recovery Source
If the main BIOS is corrupted, selects whether to recover the BIOS from the backup BIOS or from the HPA in the hard drive. (Default: HPA)
Since I'm using this for a server, I went and checked the bios.... except that option is not there! So, I checked the bios version and saw no mention of that feature being removed.

I also have a GA-X58A-UD3R with that option:

Quote:
Backup BIOS Image to HDD
Allows the system to copy the BIOS image file to the hard drive. If the system BIOS is corrupted, it will be recovered from this image file. (Default: Disabled)
Whoa, now it is disabled by default. There must have been a reason for this setting being changed from one board to another.

I making a WAG, if you disable that option it will probably allow JMFS to do its job with no problems.

I'm not brave enuff to try it on my X58 MB since that is the one I'm using now And I doubt that I ever changed that setting in the bios.
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:10 PM   #994
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...

Now that you mention the Bios backup to HDD option, I checked the manual and that option is not available. Since I no longer have that MB I can't check to see if it really is there.

I also have a GA-EP45-US3P and on page 51 that option is there.
...
Cant' trust the manual.

GA-EG45M-DS2H: manual does not mention this at all, no related bios setting, but there is such a thing, as motherboard definitely created an HPA; hence, no way to turn this "feature" off.

GA-EG45-UD2H: manual does not mention this at all, but there is a related bios setting, on by default; this setting should turn this off (but who knows for sure). My motherboard created HPA, but I did not change the option initially, so I can't tell if the setting works.

Can you check your hard drives with hdparm -N option and see if there are HPAs?
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Old 06-19-2011, 05:27 AM   #995
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The manuals for either of my GigaByte boards only talk about backing up BIOS to floppy, although both have dual BIOS chips, and the only mention anywhere in the manual of using the hard drive for storage by the board itself (as opposed to the OS or the chump at the keyboard) is the whole XpressRecovery2 thing.

I think what happens is that it automatically tries to set aside room (the HPA) for the XpressRecovery2 file or files without waiting to see if you actually decide to use that feature, or maybe it sets aside an area to leave itself a note about where and whether it has an area set aside for it.

Apparently it happens at boot, and gets written to what it thinks will be the OS's boot drive, so it starts with the IDE/PATA controllers looking for a drive that hasn't been "OS'ed" yet, (and since it's looking for a DOS/Windows/IBM-compatible PC type partition table, a Tivo drive will look blank to it), and if no PATA drives it starts down the list of SATAs.

You can undo it with hdparm on a different brand board, but on that same GigaByte board the operation will fail, so apparently the board takes an active part it defending the HPA.

So if you have to use a GigaByte board, first attach a "sacrificial" drive (it can be your regular OS booting drive) to the place highest up the food chain (start with IDE Primary Master), boot from one of the Linux-based "live" cds (Parted Magic might be a good choice to have on hand), run hdparm -N /dev/driveinquestion to make sure you do have an HPA on that drive (you can use Parted Magic to shrink partitions to make room at the end of the drive, say about 10GB).

Then maybe it'll be happy with that and not mess with any of the other drive positions/ports. Maybe.

If I knew more for sure about this I'd start a separate thread just for HPA warnings.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:27 PM   #996
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The manuals for either of my GigaByte boards only talk about backing up BIOS to floppy, although both have dual BIOS chips, and the only mention anywhere in the manual of using the hard drive for storage by the board itself (as opposed to the OS or the chump at the keyboard) is the whole XpressRecovery2 thing.

I think what happens is that it automatically tries to set aside room (the HPA) for the XpressRecovery2 file or files without waiting to see if you actually decide to use that feature, or maybe it sets aside an area to leave itself a note about where and whether it has an area set aside for it.

Apparently it happens at boot, and gets written to what it thinks will be the OS's boot drive, so it starts with the IDE/PATA controllers looking for a drive that hasn't been "OS'ed" yet, (and since it's looking for a DOS/Windows/IBM-compatible PC type partition table, a Tivo drive will look blank to it), and if no PATA drives it starts down the list of SATAs.

You can undo it with hdparm on a different brand board, but on that same GigaByte board the operation will fail, so apparently the board takes an active part it defending the HPA.

So if you have to use a GigaByte board, first attach a "sacrificial" drive (it can be your regular OS booting drive) to the place highest up the food chain (start with IDE Primary Master), boot from one of the Linux-based "live" cds (Parted Magic might be a good choice to have on hand), run hdparm -N /dev/driveinquestion to make sure you do have an HPA on that drive (you can use Parted Magic to shrink partitions to make room at the end of the drive, say about 10GB).

Then maybe it'll be happy with that and not mess with any of the other drive positions/ports. Maybe.

If I knew more for sure about this I'd start a separate thread just for HPA warnings.
On both of my motherboards, hdparm -N reports HPA of the size of 2113 sectors (~2MB) on primary drives (one has only primary drive, the other has a drive that was already partitioned before it got put in). 2113 sectors exactly matches what some people have reported happened to their drives and messed up their RAID configs. This fits BIOS backup, and is way too small for Xpress Recovery purposes, so I don't think there is much mistery as to the purpose of these HPAs (and some versions of motherboards actually do mention it in the manual).

What is unclear, as you mentioned, is whether leaving those already HPAed drives connected will satisfy the board so that it will leave other drives alone. Some people have reported that this HPA creation occured not necessarily on the first drive, as measured by the IDE/SATA port #, but rather on the drive that initialized first. I don't know if those two ways of finding first drive always match. If they do not necessarily match, there is a possibility of HPA appearing on any drive connected by IDE/SATA at the boot time.

Will jmfs recognize drives connected after the boot is over (either through eSATA or USB)? Waiting until boot is over to connect the drives should guarantee the potential HPA creation step does not see them.
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Old 06-19-2011, 04:54 PM   #997
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On both of my motherboards, hdparm -N reports HPA of the size of 2113 sectors (~2MB) on primary drives (one has only primary drive, the other has a drive that was already partitioned before it got put in). 2113 sectors exactly matches what some people have reported happened to their drives and messed up their RAID configs. This fits BIOS backup, and is way too small for Xpress Recovery purposes, so I don't think there is much mistery as to the purpose of these HPAs (and some versions of motherboards actually do mention it in the manual).

What is unclear, as you mentioned, is whether leaving those already HPAed drives connected will satisfy the board so that it will leave other drives alone. Some people have reported that this HPA creation occured not necessarily on the first drive, as measured by the IDE/SATA port #, but rather on the drive that initialized first. I don't know if those two ways of finding first drive always match. If they do not necessarily match, there is a possibility of HPA appearing on any drive connected by IDE/SATA at the boot time.

Will jmfs recognize drives connected after the boot is over (either through eSATA or USB)? Waiting until boot is over to connect the drives should guarantee the potential HPA creation step does not see them.
I took a look at some of my drives this morning using Parted Magic and it found no HPA on the X58 machine 4 drives, nor on any of the stock Tivo drives.

I then ran JMFS and shelled out and used mfslayout.sh and each of the stock tivo drives have the correct amount of partitons and KB matches earlier results of my testing JMFS with those drives.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:56 PM   #998
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I took a look at some of my drives this morning using Parted Magic and it found no HPA on the X58 machine 4 drives, nor on any of the stock Tivo drives.

I then ran JMFS and shelled out and used mfslayout.sh and each of the stock tivo drives have the correct amount of partitons and KB matches earlier results of my testing JMFS with those drives.
Interesting. I ran Parted Magic and its Partition Editor mentions no HPA or secondary partition of any kind on the primary drive, and reports "total 488395055 sectors".
hdparm -N shows that 488395055 sectors available, and 4888397168 total, HPA enabled, which seems to indicate an HPA of 2113 sectors.
If I read this correctly, it appears that, in my case, hdparm -N is better in showing HPA than Parted Magic. Your case is probably different, since the other stuff did not find anything fishy either.
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:56 AM   #999
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Interesting. I ran Parted Magic and its Partition Editor mentions no HPA or secondary partition of any kind on the primary drive, and reports "total 488395055 sectors".
hdparm -N shows that 488395055 sectors available, and 4888397168 total, HPA enabled, which seems to indicate an HPA of 2113 sectors.
If I read this correctly, it appears that, in my case, hdparm -N is better in showing HPA than Parted Magic. Your case is probably different, since the other stuff did not find anything fishy either.
I ran Parted Magic on my EP45 and it showed 2 partitions cuz I installed W7 64 bit and it asked if it could create a 100 meg partition before partitoning the rest of the drive. It is not referenced as HPA. And it has folders and files in there.

If you Google 'hpatool.zip' that tool is supposed to show and allow deleting HPA partitions. Its on the Gigabyte UK community forum. I'm not too enamored on trying this software on my X58 with 2 300G raptors in Mirror 1 for some strange reason. I may try it in the morning on the EP45.
I'm just using that computer as a server.


As far as JMFS, yes you can boot into it and add drives afterward. You just have to hit the (R)efresh key and let it scan for the drives. I know it works for USB.... never tried it for ESATA.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:41 AM   #1000
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The MFS Live cd (v1.4) boots to a command line interface and hdparm is available as soon as you type hpdparm and hit Enter.

On the Parted Magic cd, one usually boots to the graphical interface with the icons and use of the mouse and all that, but you can click on the same thing that let's you reboot or shut down and there's an option to back out to a clunky, "early days of DOS"-looking menu, and from there you can get to the pure command line and invoke hdparm.

If I remember right that's also where you can start "testdisk", which isn't much use for TiVo drives, but can be a lifesaver if your computer's drive gets scrambled.

Following up on the "hpatool.zip" clue, it seems that GigaByte UK used to have an article that explained some of this, so naturally they've moved it or taken it down, but on a UK forum a user that seems to know whereof he speaks says that the board re-writes the BIOS to the HPA every time it boots.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:11 AM   #1001
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More of my blatherings about the GigaByte HPA situation are here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...55#post8576155
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:37 AM   #1002
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I ran Parted Magic on my EP45 and it showed 2 partitions cuz I installed W7 64 bit and it asked if it could create a 100 meg partition before partitoning the rest of the drive. It is not referenced as HPA. And it has folders and files in there.

If you Google 'hpatool.zip' that tool is supposed to show and allow deleting HPA partitions. Its on the Gigabyte UK community forum. I'm not too enamored on trying this software on my X58 with 2 300G raptors in Mirror 1 for some strange reason. I may try it in the morning on the EP45.
I'm just using that computer as a server.


As far as JMFS, yes you can boot into it and add drives afterward. You just have to hit the (R)efresh key and let it scan for the drives. I know it works for USB.... never tried it for ESATA.
Thanks for the info about JMFS. I hope that eSATA will work with WD Lifeguard, wdidle, and Hitachi Feature Tools. Then I can hook up original Tivo drive with USB and use JMFS; it would be slow, but it would not be risky.

By the way, I used hdparm from MFS Live cd, per unitron's advice. It may also be able to remove the HPA, but only on another machine (if I can trust what I read), as this motherboard would fight that.
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:03 PM   #1003
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Thanks for the info about JMFS. I hope that eSATA will work with WD Lifeguard, wdidle, and Hitachi Feature Tools. Then I can hook up original Tivo drive with USB and use JMFS; it would be slow, but it would not be risky.

By the way, I used hdparm from MFS Live cd, per unitron's advice. It may also be able to remove the HPA, but only on another machine (if I can trust what I read), as this motherboard would fight that.
OK...... back to HPA for the last time in this thread for me.

Using msflive 1.4 cd I ran it on my X58 MB.

dev/sda 300G = HPA is not enabled
dev/sdb 300G = HPA is enabled

Mind you these are raid mirror 1

/dev/sdc = HPA is not enabled
/dev/sdd = HPA is not enabled
/dev/sde = HPA is enabled

My EP45: no raided HDD

/dev/sda = HPA is enabled
/dev/sdb = HPA is not enabled
/dev/sdc = HPA is not enabled
/dev/sdd = HPA is not enabled
/dev/sde = HPA is not enabled

This is the one I use for a server. And there is no option for Bios Backup to HDD

THD Stock 160G
HPA is enabled

TP Stock 320G
HPA is not enabled

TP backup 320G
HPA is not enabled


I just tried JMFS again and I booted without a HDD connected and plugged in the USB from my Blacx dock and hit refresh and it found it. I see no reason why ESATA should be any different. My test computer Asrock MB does not have ESATA......

I just tried my dock on my X58 MB and it loaded the TP HDD via ESATA without a burp.

NOW, I have read that some MB's won't do this unless your turn on ACHI on the BIOS for that controller chip. I guess you may have to see what works.

And if you are copying the stock TP 320G drive..... USB only adds an hour or so to the 3 hrs it will take SATA direct to the MB.
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Old 06-20-2011, 07:42 PM   #1004
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Will jmfs recognize drives connected after the boot is over (either through eSATA or USB)? Waiting until boot is over to connect the drives should guarantee the potential HPA creation step does not see them.
I think the answer is "it depends". Rich mentions dock stations he has used w/success. In the other hand, I bought 2 eSATA USB docks from monoprice. I ran WD Lifeguard and HDDScan (to set AAM) on the new drive under Windows... the dock worked perfectly. When I booted jmfs it saw neither docked drive. BUMMER... So I had to open up my box, and use the HD and DVD/CD SATA cables... Since I didn't have a working CD, I had to create a bootable SB stick w/jmfs.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:58 AM   #1005
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FWIW, 74.99 on NE thru June 16 w/discount code w/3 day free ship.

Thanks. I jumped on this deal in anticipation of upgrading my new Premiere. When I ran wdidle3, it reported that idle was active and set for 30 seconds (I reset it for 300 seconds). The drive carries a manufactured date of 02 MAR 2011.
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:15 PM   #1006
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Ok, I've read through most of this thread, but I still am having problems.

First, I tried running the CD on a gigabyte motherboard, but it only detected one harddrive. I'm guessing this is the HPA problem you are all talking about. Has this screwed up my Tivo drive?

Also, I put them in another old dell I have and it detects both drives fine, but it is erroring out saying that there isn't enough room on my drive. (I'm copying from 320GB to 2TB so I know that's not the issue. Any ideas?
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:48 PM   #1007
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Ok, I've read through most of this thread, but I still am having problems.

First, I tried running the CD on a gigabyte motherboard, but it only detected one harddrive. I'm guessing this is the HPA problem you are all talking about. Has this screwed up my Tivo drive?

Also, I put them in another old dell I have and it detects both drives fine, but it is erroring out saying that there isn't enough room on my drive. (I'm copying from 320GB to 2TB so I know that's not the issue. Any ideas?
First thing I would do is reinstall the original 320 gb drive back in the Premiere to see if it is still funtioning properly. This is the ultimate test to determine if it is "screwed up", or not.

As for the "not enough room", are you sure you had selected the appropriate drive? Any other drives connected? If so, disconnect all hard drives execept the 2 relevant drives.

What brand and model is the target 2 TB drive?
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:50 PM   #1008
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ok, I'll get that in a few minutes. I actually got the copy to start on the older computer after I switched around the SATA cables. Once that is done I'll plug the old drive back in and boot up.
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:34 PM   #1009
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ok, I'll get that in a few minutes. I actually got the copy to start on the older computer after I switched around the SATA cables. Once that is done I'll plug the old drive back in and boot up.
AS far as JMFS detecting drives... more than once I've had too hit the (R)efresh key before it sees both drives. And it is far easier to just to have those 2 drives hooked up. Less chance of writing to the wrong target drive.

I'm not going to address that HPA situation as I'm not positive it creates a problem with TIVO drives. My stock THD 160G has HPA Enabled and it works.

On my stock TP 320G HPA is not enabled and it produces read errors when copying to another HDD... but it works as does the straight copy that I made of it.
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:41 PM   #1010
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ok, I'll get that in a few minutes. I actually got the copy to start on the older computer after I switched around the SATA cables. Once that is done I'll plug the old drive back in and boot up.
May as well proceed normally now. Complete the entire JMFS procedure. Then try booting the the new enlarged drive first. Though which one you try first is no issue. In fact, if the new drive operates, that is probably all you need to know that the original was good.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:06 PM   #1011
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ok, copy completed, expanding now.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:08 PM   #1012
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Great, expand failed. Rebooting computer and trying again.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:19 PM   #1013
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That didn't work. Does the program not see the harddrive after it's been copied? Do I need to do a full copy again?
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:29 PM   #1014
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Well just great. I put the original drive back into the premiere and it's hosed. It gets to the "almost there" screen and then cuts off all video after about 2-3 minutes.

A warning message about putting these drives into computers with Gigabyte motherboards in the original post would be helpful.

Where do I go from here? Do I have to return the unit to Tivo now?
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:39 PM   #1015
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That didn't work. Does the program not see the harddrive after it's been copied? Do I need to do a full copy again?
I would go back to checking the original drive, reinstalled in the Premiere.
Then maybe just brushing up on the basics of the process.

I have upgraded my own Premiere to a 2 TB Hitachi Cool spin, and for an acquaintance, I reimaged(essentially cloned) an original drive, and also upgraded a 2 TB WD GP drive, using the reimaged original.

I used 2 very old computers. One Celeron 4 on a Shuttle motherboard that is probably at least 8 years old, and a Pentium D system with an Asus mb about 6 -7 years old. Besides some curious inconsistencies in the copying times, all seemed to be textbook(exactly as outlined). All 3 copied/expanded drives seem to boot correctly in my Premiere. The acquaitance has not yet received his drives to test in his unit.

Having said all that, now my original drive fails to boot up. Oh well.

Good luck.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:47 PM   #1016
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Well just great. I put the original drive back into the premiere and it's hosed. It gets to the "almost there" screen and then cuts off all video after about 2-3 minutes.

A warning message about putting these drives into computers with Gigabyte motherboards in the original post would be helpful.

Where do I go from here? Do I have to return the unit to Tivo now?
That will probably be your best recourse now.

Do not mention anything about trying to upgrade the drive, or even opening the unit up. That will almost certainly disqualify you from getting any warranty service consideration.

Double check your reinstallation. Make sure everything is connected correctly, and securely.

Funny thing too: sometimes these things, for whatever reason, may fail to boot up one time, and succeed another. Nothing left but to try getting it to boot on several tries.

Good luck.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:52 PM   #1017
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Why would the expand fail after copying the drive?
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:17 PM   #1018
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If you have one, make sure to uplug any USB-Bluetooth adapter first before attempting a reboot.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:34 PM   #1019
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...Where do I go from here?...
Something else to try, after making sure the drive is just not going to boot: Try running the WD Lifegard diagnostics extended test on the drive. This supposedly attempts to correct errors it may find. Curiously, this worked for me even though no errors were reported. Unfortunately after successfully booting up, it ultimately failed to boot later on.

Some other possibilities: Borrow an original Premiere hard drive and attempt to reimage your original drive using the copy function with JMFS. Or ask an owner of a Premiere to reimage your original drive for you.

There are also drives of various capacities for sale on ebay, with the Premiere software already installed. I think recall seeing 2 TB drives for as low as $115.

Lastly, for now, some of the places that sell prepared Tivo drives(dvrdude, dvrupgrade, weaknees, etc) may be able to restore your original drive.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:45 PM   #1020
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Ok, i put the original back in the premiere and just let it sit. Not sure if that helped, but it booted and I got all the screens to come up fine. I'm now attempting another copy and am currently waiting for that to complete. We'll see if it fails on the expand again or not.
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