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Old 06-04-2011, 11:18 AM   #961
AgentS
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Ok. I'm having issues with my jmfs copy.

So my hard drive started going a few days ago on my Premiere. Symptoms lasted a few days and i decided to unplug my TiVo (to hopefully minimize the damage) for 2 days while my WD15EARS was being shipped to me. I started jmfs tonight and if started off fast. I have both devices connected via sata to my mobo. It's been running for approx 6 hrs now, and the last 4 or so hrs have been mostly at a crawl. I'm only at the 113 GB mark, and I'm already at 277 errors...and counting! I didn't think it was that bad considering it still works in the TiVo, albeit choppy sometimes. Do bad HDD's usually take this long to copy?

Any suggestions? If it can't copy, what are my options? I knew this wouldn't be easy!

Thanks.

Thanks for the responses dwit and retiredquest. I let it sit overnight and checked it in the Am. Says it rescued 320009MB out of 320072MB. Now it's in the middle of "trimming failed blocks", so i still haven't tested it out yet. I hope those 63MB weren't important!

Wait a minute, i just realized that my "rescued" size is slowly going up during this phase. I hope that's a good sign!

Oh, and yes i tried kickstart. It was the one for the HDD....KS 54 i believe. That gave me a bunch of "fail 4's".

Last edited by AgentS : 06-04-2011 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 06-05-2011, 11:15 AM   #962
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...you can try to see if Winmfs can make a usable truncated backup image of the original drive(no saved recordings).
FWIW unfortunately wimMFS cannot make a truncated backup of Premiere drives as it can with earlier models.
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Old 06-05-2011, 11:21 AM   #963
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For computers, it might be the 2TB limit, hardware-wise, or the limit of the partition table we've been using for over a quarter-century now, or the BIOS structure that's been around since then (and before) or a limit of XP/Server 2003 and older OS'es hard coded to expect 512 byte sectors.


Here's a quite good and informative article about the whole "advanced format" mess.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...r-xp-users.ars
Good info, thanks for that. Here's an article from Storage Review that I found a while back offering some quick info about why 3TB drives can be problematic for Windows PC's and some Linux OS systems (although they are fully compatible with Apple's Mac OS X). It also includes some interesting benchmarks and comparisons.

http://www.storagereview.com/western...ew_wd30ezrsdtl
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:16 AM   #964
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Thanks. Piece of cake. Upgraded to a Hitachi 2 TB drive. Only had a few hours of shows on the drive. Whole process barely took 2 hours on an ancient Celeron4 2.4ghz machine.

Might be selling this drive(2TB) because I don't think I'm going to activate the Premiere. Too expensive. Was hoping the rebuilt woot units were still eligible with a change TSN for activation, but alas, no more.
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:07 PM   #965
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I had a minor issue with my drive not being recognized after booting to linux. I kept getting an error saying No tivo drive detected. In fact none of the HD's were showing up.

Now I have an I7 rig right now with an Asus p6x58d. All my drives are obviously connected with SATA cables.

After searching the issue I only found a vague reference from older Tivos when being used on IDE systems that you needed to set the master / slave relationship to get the drive to be seen. Obviously with SATA this shouldn't be an issue. So i played around in my bios trying out different configurations with zero luck.

While messing around in the bios I noticed that my drives were being designated as IDE drives running enhanced mode. While my dvd drive was listed as being SATA. Well that would be the problem. At first I tried adjusting the bios settings to show the drives as SATA with no luck. This was not possible and I tried all of the possible combinations.

So disconnected all of my Sata ports (I have 8 on this MB, two at top and 6 below). When I saw this the light bulb came on because the HD's were being connected to the two slots at the top (6gb/s) while the DVD drive below (3gb/s). AT first glance a layman would say they look identical as the interface is grouped tightly together and colored the same (Asus fail there). They are not and use two different controllers.

ICH10R Southbridge SATA - 6 ports
Marvell 88SE9128 SATA 6Gb/sec - 2 ports

Simply moving the hard drives to the other controller (ICH10R) and rebooting immediately solved the problem. Instead of being seen as IDE drives the hard drives were now showing up as Sata drives.

Booting into Linux via the boot disk now showed the drives and the rest is obviously cake.

I couldn't find any mention of this and I know that there are plenty of people out there that might not check further than making sure their cables are plugged in. If they have my board its actually very difficult to see there is any difference what so ever between the two. I wanted to post this in case someone with less knowledge ran into the same problem. A quick google search revealed no postings on this so I wanted to document it for others in the unlikely event it has stumped someone.

Last edited by aridon : 06-06-2011 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:27 PM   #966
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I had a minor issue with my drive not being recognized after booting to linux. I kept getting an error saying No tivo drive detected. In fact none of the HD's were showing up.

Now I have an I7 rig right now with an Asus p6x58d. All my drives are obviously connected with SATA cables.

After searching the issue I only found a vague reference from older Tivos when being used on IDE systems that you needed to set the master / slave relationship to get the drive to be seen. Obviously with SATA this shouldn't be an issue. So i played around in my bios trying out different configurations with zero luck.

While messing around in the bios I noticed that my drives were being designated as IDE drives running enhanced mode. While my CD drive was listed as being SATA. Well that would be the problem.

So disconnected all of my Sata ports (I have 8 slots on this MB, two at top and 6 below. All with the same connectors. When I saw this the light bulb came on because the HD's were being connected to the two slots at the top while the DVD drive below. AT first glance they look identical as the interface is grouped tightly together and colored the same (Asus fail there). They are not.

ICH10R Southbridge SATA - 6 ports
Marvell 88SE9128 SATA 6Gb/sec - 2 ports

Simply moving the hard drives to the other controller (ICH10R) and rebooting immediately solved the problem. Instead of being seen as IDE drives the hard drives were now showing up as Sata drives.

Booting into Linux via the boot disk now showed the drives and the rest is obviously cake.

I couldn't find any mention of this and I know that there are plenty of people out there that might not check further than making sure their cables are plugged in. If they have my board its actually very difficult to see there is any difference what so ever between the two. I wanted to post this in case someone with less knowledge ran into the same problem. A quick google search revealed no postings on this so I wanted to document it for others in the unlikely event it has stumped someone.
All of my drives showed up whether they were ide drives or sata drives. I used a very old p4 motherboard and all of the drives showed in the bios as ide drives, also set on enhanced setting.

Maybe I just got lucky and connected to the right inputs on the first guess. But I was prepared to try the other inputs if the first ones chosen didn't work.
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:32 PM   #967
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All of my drives showed up whether they were ide drives or sata drives. I used a very old p4 motherboard and all of the drives showed in the bios as ide drives, also set on enhanced setting.

Maybe I just got lucky and connected to the right inputs on the first guess. But I was prepared to try the other inputs if the first ones chosen didn't work.
Aye, chances are its a specific issue with that controller and linux. A bios update may fix the issue but swapping to the other controller is far easier and safer
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:58 PM   #968
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Thanks for the responses dwit and retiredquest. I let it sit overnight and checked it in the Am. Says it rescued 320009MB out of 320072MB. Now it's in the middle of "trimming failed blocks", so i still haven't tested it out yet. I hope those 63MB weren't important!

Wait a minute, i just realized that my "rescued" size is slowly going up during this phase. I hope that's a good sign!

Oh, and yes i tried kickstart. It was the one for the HDD....KS 54 i believe. That gave me a bunch of "fail 4's".
24 hours of copying with 755 errors and my copy is a success! I haven't noticed any problems either (yet). A big thank you to everyone on here.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:14 PM   #969
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24 hours of copying with 755 errors and my copy is a success! I haven't noticed any problems either (yet). A big thank you to everyone on here.
Congrats..... You may want to consider doing a copy only from the stock drive to a 320G or larger to make a known good backup. In case something happens to the 2TB.

I'm on my SECOND WD20EVDS..... just a thought.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:19 PM   #970
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24 hours of copying with 755 errors and my copy is a success! I haven't noticed any problems either (yet). A big thank you to everyone on here.
Congrats!

The whole procedure, disassemble> jmfs program>reassemble, took 2 hours, 15 minutes for me. And this was on an old Celeron 4 machine.

Only had a few hours of shows on the original drive though. No errors at all on either drive.
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Old 06-07-2011, 02:06 AM   #971
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24 hours of copying with 755 errors and my copy is a success! I haven't noticed any problems either (yet). A big thank you to everyone on here.
Phew!
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:37 AM   #972
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WD 2TB EADS being superseded by new model?

I notice that NewEgg has deactivated the 2TB EADS on its website. I think that was the default drive for the "yes, I know how to run AAM" crowd - is there a new default? (Looks like the EARX is about to replace the EARS.)
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:39 AM   #973
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I notice that NewEgg has deactivated the 2TB EADS on its website. I think that was the default drive for the "yes, I know how to run AAM" crowd - is there a new default? (Looks like the EARX is about to replace the EARS.)
As of mid-May, 2011, CompUSA had the WD20EADS in stock at $90.

Now their site says only available in their retail stores, but it's $10 cheaper.
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:37 PM   #974
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I notice that NewEgg has deactivated the 2TB EADS on its website.
Really? —> 2TB Link Here
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:55 PM   #975
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Really? —> 2TB Link Here
That link leads to the "advanced format" WD20EARS, not the WD20EADS, which is the older 512 byte sector type.
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Old 06-08-2011, 06:47 PM   #976
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That link leads to the "advanced format" WD20EARS, not the WD20EADS, which is the older 512 byte sector type.
Ooops... yes, you are right. I need to pay closer attention... NewEgg discontinued EADS some time ago... Amazon and Tiger Direct had it last I checked (a week back). FWIW, EARS works fine in my Premiere.
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:39 PM   #977
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I am considering doing the 2TB upgrade and have a couple of questions.

1. Is WD20EARS still considered a good drive to use? If so, I read a few conflicting reports on the recommended settings for wdidle:
a) leave it alone, it works anyway
b) /S10000000000 (or is it /S[10000000000], i.e. does it need [])
c) /D
d) /s300

Which other drive would you recommend? I did read the whole thread, but the answers sometimes change with time, and some drives have been discontinued.

2. I have a Gigabyte GA-EG45M-DS2H motherboard, with Xpress Recovery2. It appears that in some cases it may create a hidden partition (host protected area) without asking, which would hose the original Tivo drive, if it happens to be the drive it puts HPA on. The manual implies that it would not actually do that until explicitly evoked and unless the drive has unallocated space; it did not do it, as far as I can tell, on the drive with Windows XP in my computer, since there seems to be only one partition on it, and no unallocated space. However, there were some reports to the contrary, and I am unwilling to risk my Tivo drive, just hoping that the motherboard will not do it (the drive is an XL, currently hovering around 90%, full of stuff I'd much rather not lose, and thanks to Time Warner flagging just about everything, I cannot copy it to the computer). So, I will probably refrain from unhooking both of my existing drives and hooking up the Tivo drive and the blank drive; I'll try leaving the Windows OS drive connected to SATA 0, unhook the other one and buy one more SATA cable to be able to hook up both Tivo and blank drives. Anybody knows if this would make the whole thing safe?
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:04 PM   #978
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I am considering doing the 2TB upgrade and have a couple of questions.

1. Is WD20EARS still considered a good drive to use? If so, I read a few conflicting reports on the recommended settings for wdidle:
a) leave it alone, it works anyway
b) /S10000000000 (or is it /S[10000000000], i.e. does it need [])
c) /D
d) /s300
The EARS, EADS and WD's A/V drives are all fine candidates. For me, EARS was the cheapest, YMMV.

Re: WDIDLE3, a) is fine if you don't hang on a soft boot. If you do, you'll need to remove the HDD and reset WDIDLE3 timing. I didn't want that hassle, so I just changed it up front. c) and d) all have their proponents based on speculations about drive life ... speculations that we won't have data on for some time... I don't know about b) ... I went with d) ... it works for me without completely knocking out intellipark ... but heh, I only have 90 days of run time so far. Worst case ... my drive fails tomorrow, I lose some shows I have't backed up and I get another HDD. And I'd never know whether WDIDLE3 contributed to its demise.
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:55 PM   #979
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Originally Posted by PedjaR View Post
I am considering doing the 2TB upgrade and have a couple of questions.

1. Is WD20EARS still considered a good drive to use? If so, I read a few conflicting reports on the recommended settings for wdidle:
a) leave it alone, it works anyway
b) /S10000000000 (or is it /S[10000000000], i.e. does it need [])
c) /D
d) /s300

Which other drive would you recommend? I did read the whole thread, but the answers sometimes change with time, and some drives have been discontinued.

2. I have a Gigabyte GA-EG45M-DS2H motherboard, with Xpress Recovery2. It appears that in some cases it may create a hidden partition (host protected area) without asking, which would hose the original Tivo drive, if it happens to be the drive it puts HPA on. The manual implies that it would not actually do that until explicitly evoked and unless the drive has unallocated space; it did not do it, as far as I can tell, on the drive with Windows XP in my computer, since there seems to be only one partition on it, and no unallocated space. However, there were some reports to the contrary, and I am unwilling to risk my Tivo drive, just hoping that the motherboard will not do it (the drive is an XL, currently hovering around 90%, full of stuff I'd much rather not lose, and thanks to Time Warner flagging just about everything, I cannot copy it to the computer). So, I will probably refrain from unhooking both of my existing drives and hooking up the Tivo drive and the blank drive; I'll try leaving the Windows OS drive connected to SATA 0, unhook the other one and buy one more SATA cable to be able to hook up both Tivo and blank drives. Anybody knows if this would make the whole thing safe?
If you get the N&O you may have noticed that CompUSA has the 20EARS for $79.99 (plus Bev's cut) this week.

As to GigaByte and HPAs, I have 2 GigaByte boards of about the same age as yours on which I learned about this issue the hard way, but both are tied up being actual computers right now (one for me and one for the TiVos), so I haven't done any extensive experimentation to figure out the exact algorithm it uses, i.e., under what circumstances it writes to which disk where.

If you put a "sacrificial" drive on the Primary Master IDE/PATA position, it may be content to put an HPA there and leave everything else alone.

If your XP drive is the first SATA, and you have no IDE/PATA drives, you can boot from the MFS Live cd v1.4 and run

hdparm -N /dev/sda

and see if you have an HPA on there or not.

There's a (possibly undocumented) variation on that command to remove the HPA, but the GigaByte board will prevent it from working. You'd have to use a different board, and it's only worth doing if you're trying to fix a drive that's going to be used in a TiVo. If there's one on your XP drive, just leave it.

If you do have one on your XP drive, maybe the motherboard will be happy with that and not try to put any on any other drives.


If not, you could use the Parted Magic boot cd to shrink the partition nearest the end to make room for an HPA, and then re-boot and let it make one, and maybe it'll be satisfied with that.
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Old 06-13-2011, 08:22 AM   #980
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Thanks for the replies.
I saw W20EARS on Amazon for $80, shipping included; I'd rather buy from them - a couple of times when I needed to return something, they were extremely easy to deal with.
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:02 AM   #981
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Thanks for the replies.
I saw W20EARS on Amazon for $80, shipping included; I'd rather buy from them - a couple of times when I needed to return something, they were extremely easy to deal with.
FWIW, 74.99 on NE thru June 16 w/discount code w/3 day free ship.
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:03 PM   #982
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Thanks for the replies.
I saw W20EARS on Amazon for $80, shipping included; I'd rather buy from them - a couple of times when I needed to return something, they were extremely easy to deal with.
I don't own stock in either company, I was just thinking if you had to go over to Raleigh anyway, instant gratification factor.
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:12 PM   #983
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Doing some further searching to learn from the trials and tribulations of others, it seems that those GigaByte boards that write HPAs tend to do so on drives they think are blank because they don't see a DOS/Windows/PC type partition table, which they won't on a TiVo drive, and really won't on a Series 1 byteswapped.

Unless the drive was used for something else first, in which case there may be remnants of one left.

(somewhere around here I've got a drive that reports PC-type partitions to fdisk and Apple/TiVo partitions to pdisk)
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:07 PM   #984
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I don't own stock in either company, I was just thinking if you had to go over to Raleigh anyway, instant gratification factor.
My bad, I misunderstood you. I thought that all CompUSA retail locations were closed (like the one on Glenwood) and that they had only online presence. Not so much, apparently. While West Cary to East Raleigh is not quite instant (and I rarely go that way), it is definitely way faster than waiting for online order, adn I will consider that.
However, until the Gigabyte thing is cleared, I won't be buying the drive.

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Old 06-13-2011, 07:19 PM   #985
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Doing some further searching to learn from the trials and tribulations of others, it seems that those GigaByte boards that write HPAs tend to do so on drives they think are blank because they don't see a DOS/Windows/PC type partition table, which they won't on a TiVo drive, and really won't on a Series 1 byteswapped.

Unless the drive was used for something else first, in which case there may be remnants of one left.

(somewhere around here I've got a drive that reports PC-type partitions to fdisk and Apple/TiVo partitions to pdisk)
I looked at my two drives.
One I bought blank, and installed XP on it (using this motherboard). I do not see any hidden partition using Disk Management utility, which manual said I would. It has only one partition of 232.88GB (drive is supposedly 250GB).
The other drive I got as a part of a (dirt cheap) external drive package, used for a little bit as external storage with cable co. DVR, then when the case went bad, salvaged the drive and put it in. Has one partition of 232.82GB.
So, either the motherboard used them both for HPA, or neither.

Now I am unclear whether the board would write to both Tivo and blank drive, or only one of them, or neither; I also have no idea if it is better to leave the existing OS drive in or not. Probably too risky to try the upgrade with the info I have so far.

Also, looking around, I noticed that there are some Gigabyte motherboards that use HPA for virtual dual bios; this one has actual dual bios, so it would not do that.
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:23 PM   #986
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My bad, I misunderstood you. I thought that all CompUSA retail locations were closed (like the one on Glenwood) and that they had only online presence. Not so much, apparently. While West Cary to East Raleigh is not quite instant, it is definitely way faster than waiting for online order.
Anyway, until the Gigabyte thing is cleared, I won't be buying the drive.
So I'm guessing you didn't see their flyer in Sunday's News & Observer.

I did because I got there before the coupon stealers cleaned out the racks, but I'm about a 3 hour drive from Glenwood Ave, so I'm not really in a postition to just pop by there.

Meanwhile Gov. Perdue says she's extremely disappointed in your failure to help stimulate the state's economy.
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Old 06-16-2011, 07:33 PM   #987
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I am a midst doing the upgrade. I got a WD20EARS connected it internally in my PC, used an external docking station for the tivo drive. They both got recognized fine. So now I chose copy and it is sitting on the screen saying copying non-tried blocks. Is there something that would show progress?
I do not see anything. Is that normal? Does it matter I have probably 18-20 hours of HD recordings?


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Old 06-16-2011, 08:34 PM   #988
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I am a midst doing the upgrade. I got a WD20EARS connected it internally in my PC, used an external docking station for the tivo drive. They both got recognized fine. So now I chose copy and it is sitting on the screen saying copying non-tried blocks. Is there something that would show progress?
I do not see anything. Is that normal? Does it matter I have probably 18-20 hours of HD recordings?
Assuming you're using jmfs live cd for the upgrade, you might want to watch this video (2 part) for insight. It takes significantly longer using a USB dock station.
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:52 AM   #989
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Originally Posted by Stuxnet View Post
Assuming you're using jmfs live cd for the upgrade, you might want to watch this video (2 part) for insight. It takes significantly longer using a USB dock station.
thank you (I did not even think of checking youtube).

I had downloaded the previous version of jmfs image (I re downloaded)
I decided to forgo the dock station (although it is an e-SATA) and connected directly to my motherboard. It worked like a charm. I already installed it in my Premier and it works fine. I did do the supersize as well.

Thank you folks for your support and kudos to the creator or the process.

Regards

Nick
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:22 PM   #990
PedjaR
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
...
As to GigaByte and HPAs, I have 2 GigaByte boards of about the same age as yours on which I learned about this issue the hard way, but both are tied up being actual computers right now (one for me and one for the TiVos), so I haven't done any extensive experimentation to figure out the exact algorithm it uses, i.e., under what circumstances it writes to which disk where.

If you put a "sacrificial" drive on the Primary Master IDE/PATA position, it may be content to put an HPA there and leave everything else alone.

If your XP drive is the first SATA, and you have no IDE/PATA drives, you can boot from the MFS Live cd v1.4 and run

hdparm -N /dev/sda

and see if you have an HPA on there or not.
...
After some investigation, it looks like the issues with these motherboards have nothing to do with Xpress Recovery2 (that one has to be manually installed and invoked), but with BIOS backup to hard drive. The associated HPA is supposed to be small - 2113 sectors (but enough to hose the drive, of course). My motherboard does not have an option to turn it off, and when I ran hdparm, it confirmed HPA of exactly that size on primary drive. Secondary drive does not have HPA, but that drive was put in there already partitioned (from a failed external enclosure), so I can’t be sure that it would not do the same kind of thing if it were considered blank (i.e. I am not completely sure that sacrificial drive thing will work). Also, some people say that this BIOS backup may not be on the drive with first SATA port (as Xpress Recovery2 is), but on the drive that initializes first (presumably frequently the same thing, but not always).
My daughter’s computer has a slightly newer version of the motherboard (GA-EG45-UD2H), and that one also had 2113-sector HPA on its only drive. However, that one has a BIOS option “Backup BIOS to HDD” (not in the manual, by the way), which seems to be exactly what is needed (it is on by default). There is a potential issue that some say this option does not really work.

I am left with several choices:
1. a) Hook up both drives using USB (get SATA->USB). On the up side, it should not create HPA on those. On the down side, it is slower, and I think wdidle does not work with USB; I’d really like to set it to more than 8s, it seems that it would be good for longevity sake.
1.b) get non-WD drive that does not need wdidle, the rest like a)
2. Hook up blank drive using eSATA enclosure, and hook up Tivo drive using USB. Maybe wdidle will work? Anybody knows?
3. Put blank drive inside computer, and hook up Tivo drive using USB. This would be handy, as then wdidle thing should work. On the down side, HPA may be created on the blank drive, but if it is created on a blank drive before jmfs is even started, that should not prevent it from working fine in Tivo, right???
4. Put blank drive inside computer, and hook up Tivo drive using eSATA. Similar to 3, but faster. Downside - slightly increased chance of Tivo drive getting hosed with HPA.
5. Put both drives in the computer, leaving original HDD with HPA in as well, and hope that either “Backup BIOS to HDD” setting will work, or that motherboard will not feel the need to do backup on more than one drive.

Any ideas/recommendations?
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