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Old 03-13-2011, 09:00 PM   #91
mattack
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I realize this is somewhat off-topic, but the jmfs tools gives me the info that I need in another context, so I'll ask here.

jmfs doesn't work on Series 3s, and my previous Series 3 drive died, so I'm limping along with the orig drive (that is causing reboots, a major reason I upgraded a couple of years ago).

I want to do the upgrade booted from the mfstools upgrade CD.. on a Mac (I know this works). But how can I figure out which drive is which, in the linux booted from that CD?

jmfs tells me exactly the hard drive model #, so I can verify the sizes for source/destination before starting the copy. (e.g. my laptop drive is ST9100824AS)

How can I figure that out at the linux command line before doing an upgrade? I especially obviously want to avoid any other drives installed in the system?
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:31 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
I realize this is somewhat off-topic, but the jmfs tools gives me the info that I need in another context, so I'll ask here.

jmfs doesn't work on Series 3s, and my previous Series 3 drive died, so I'm limping along with the orig drive (that is causing reboots, a major reason I upgraded a couple of years ago).

I want to do the upgrade booted from the mfstools upgrade CD.. on a Mac (I know this works). But how can I figure out which drive is which, in the linux booted from that CD?

jmfs tells me exactly the hard drive model #, so I can verify the sizes for source/destination before starting the copy. (e.g. my laptop drive is ST9100824AS)

How can I figure that out at the linux command line before doing an upgrade? I especially obviously want to avoid any other drives installed in the system?
I know, that's the cool thing about jmfs, isn't it.

I hope this helps--Hear's a quick linux tutorial at the mfstools boot CD:
  • fdisk -l # Lists all of the drives seen at boot, includes a list of partitions
  • dmesg # lists all boot messages
  • egrep # filters the output of what you "pipe" to it
  • | # That's the pipe--it sends the output of the first command to the second command as its input

So, you run the fdisk -l. The TiVo drives all have a ton of partitions, the empty one should have none (unless you were using it for something like windows before this).

Another way to confirm it is:

dmesg | egrep "[hs]d"


That is, you run dmesg, and you "pipe" its output to egrep, egrep then shows you any lines that contain "hd" or "sd". The SATA drives are most likely "sda" through "sdc"--I included "hd" anyway--hose are IDE drives or maybe your CD drive.

Yet another way:

mfsinfo /dev/sda
mfsinfo /dev/sdb


The mfsinfo will show the TiVo information about a drive, to include how many hours storage.
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:14 AM   #93
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I've read through this thread and others and I think I have a pretty good idea on what to do but just wanted to validate that these procedures will work for my situation:

Tivo HD with a 1TB Weaknees drive.
I want to upgrade to a 2tb drive and keep all of my existing shows.
Would also like the cablecard pairings to transfer to the new drive.

Will the procedures discussed above work in this situation?

Thanks.
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:40 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby4919 View Post
I've read through this thread and others and I think I have a pretty good idea on what to do but just wanted to validate that these procedures will work for my situation:

Tivo HD with a 1TB Weaknees drive.
I want to upgrade to a 2tb drive and keep all of my existing shows.
Would also like the cablecard pairings to transfer to the new drive.

Will the procedures discussed above work in this situation?

Thanks.
It will do a 100% COMPLETE disc copy..... what ever is on the source drive it will copy to the target drive.

You'll need 7-12 hrs to do this depending on what type of connection you use for the hard drives.....

If JMFS finds the Weaknees drive, it will copy it.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:35 AM   #95
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Done!

Done! Easy as pie, thanks to everyone here.

Upgraded from a dying WD 750Gb to the WD20EARS using the save settings method. The drive was dying. I know I said in an earlier post that a good dusting had fixed my reboot issue, but they resurfaced again. With both drives sitting idle this morning, the 750Gb surface temp was 108 degrees and the 2Tb was 93 degrees.

Copy took about 4.75 hours, based on my estimates (copied 158Gb in 1st hour). I was asleep at 3:15am when it probably finished.
Had both drives connected directly to my Dell 2.4Ghz Quad with 4Gb RAM

Expand took 5 to 10 seconds

Supersize had been done with WinMFS on the original drive and carried over to the new one, along with all my settings, recordings, etc.

I used hdparm -M to set AAM to 128

I left the idle setting alone. Can hdparm -S be used to set the Idle Timer?

Notes: The 1st reboot took a long time. After the Powering Up screen, black screen, then Powering Up again. Thought I was in a reboot loop. But I waited and it eventually went to the Few More Minutes screen and then I was watching Tivo guy jump around. I did a software reboot, and it went flawlessly.


Thanks again to everyone in this thread that pioneered the process!
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:42 AM   #96
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Good things sometimes do come to those who wait...

I've owned my TIVO HD (TCD652160) for just over 2 years now (2+ years of flawless operation), and have been researching upgrade options to a 2 TB drive for about the past year. My budget-driven goal was to spend about $100 for the drive, and while waiting for that price point I educated myself by reading hundreds of the great posts here. Until recently, the only path I saw to executing the upgrade (without going to a vendor) was to obtain a copy of elusive "Broflovski image" (reubanks graciously offered to provide this image). Up to this point, my only posts here were ones regarding this image.

When I read here about the amazing work by "Comer" (although focused on the Premiere) that was then proven (with a simple change) to support upgrading a TIVO HD to a 2TB drive, I rationalized exceeding my budget (by $14.99) and getting a Western Digital WD20EVDS from Amazon.com for $114.99.

I was ready and waiting to execute the following procedures with the downloaded software, my unused/hobby project Intel D945GCLF with 2 SATA ports, and a Torx toolkit:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...47#post8143047

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...05#post8309405


The full copy of the original 160 GB drive took less than 2 hours, and then just a few seconds for the "expand". As documented, the software reported that I now had 288 hours of recording space available. The "Supersize" with WINMFS then brought me up to 318 HD recording hours - the additional 30 GB increase being greater than the max of 21 hours reported by my TIVO HD for the stock, 160 GB drive.

After putting the new drive back in my TIVO HD and powering it up (it breezed flawless through the startup processes), I executed the system restart to ensure that my new Western Digital drive did not exhibit the "warm boot" issue requiring the use of "widdle" to change a firmware setting. My drive was manufactured after the date where the problem was supposedly resolved, but I wanted to double-check after reading the history here. Again, another smooth startup.

I put my original TIVO HD 160 GB drive in the anti-static bag and protective packaging from my new drive, taped it up, and put it in a safe place in the event my new drive should fail at some point. I may even swap them out every now and then to keep the system software up to date on the old drive.

Not only do I now have 318 hours of HD recording time, but all of the recordings I had on the original drive are on my new 2TB drive, as well (and with the same reference points from which to 'resume' playback).

To all of you Tivo HD users: unless your are in the difficult position of having a drive crash/failure, there is NO reason to search for an image to upgrade your hard drive to 2TB. The tools and procedures created by "Comer" worked FLAWLESSLY for me (and for others as is documented in this forum).

I'm so happy that when I'm sent on the road now for 3+ weeks at a time, I won't have to be "surprised" by the decisions TIVO has made when it doesn't have enough disk space to record my defined "Season Pass" items. Tivo is performing as designed and documented, but sometimes I might be more in the mood for the latest episode of "The Big Bang Theory" over "Modern Family". If only TIVO could figure that out... <g>

I cannot thank "Comer" and everyone else here enough for both the education you have provided, and your hard work in developing software tools and documented procedures for drive upgrades. I could not be happier with the end result.

THANKS!! -- John
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Old 03-19-2011, 01:33 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doit2it View Post
Done! Easy as pie, thanks to everyone here.
That initial boot up is a real nail biter for sure! (A lot of housekeeping going on in the background.)

If TiVo booted up okay and will reboot from a menu restart you don't need to adjust the Intellipark (Idle timer) setting.

Congrats and enjoy!
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Old 03-19-2011, 01:36 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnNButchNGunny View Post
I've owned my TIVO HD (TCD652160) for just over 2 years now (2+ years of flawless operation), and have been researching upgrade options to a 2 TB drive for about the past year. <snip>
Hi John, thanks for all of the details, nice work.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:14 AM   #99
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well... not so good success. My goal was to upgrade a 1TB Weaknees upgraded drive to 2tb (in a TivoHD) while saving all my shows and settings.

Ran:
1) jmfs to copy the drive
2) jmfs to expand it
3) winmfs to supersize it

On boot up in Tivo i got the error saying my external storage was missing. I told Tivo to go ahead and separate from the external storage. Several hours later Tivo finished booting. All my shows are there, the cable cards are paired, but i've only got 157 hours on a 2TB drive. Half of what it should be?

Did I do something wrong? Or is it maybe because Weaknees expanded the drive originally in an unconventional way.

Any ideas/help would be appreciated.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:34 PM   #100
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I've also noticed my menus are faster. If I change the position or delete a Season Pass (I have 50) it used to take 20 to 35 seconds of "Wait time", now it only takes about 5 to 9 seconds.

Is it just a newer, faster drive (WD20EARS, same spindle speed thou) or the fact that the old one was apparently failing? Or does fragmentation occur over the life of the drive?

Also, can I use the old drive in a Windows system? Is the Linux/Tivo OS that finicky when it comes to drive performance? Or is it best just trashing my WD7500AAKS drive. Or was that WD model the issue?

Addendum: I hooked up the drive and ran HDDScan. The S.M.A.R.T. test shows UltraDMA CRC Errors on the drive.

Sorry for the barrage of questions, just curious.
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Old 03-20-2011, 04:09 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doit2it View Post
I've also noticed my menus are faster. If I change the position or delete a Season Pass (I have 50) it used to take 20 to 35 seconds of "Wait time", now it only takes about 5 to 9 seconds.

Is it just a newer, faster drive (WD20EARS, same spindle speed thou) or the fact that the old one was apparently failing? Or does fragmentation occur over the life of the drive?

Also, can I use the old drive in a Windows system? Is the Linux/Tivo OS that finicky when it comes to drive performance? Or is it best just trashing my WD7500AAKS drive. Or was that WD model the issue?

Addendum: I hooked up the drive and ran HDDScan. The S.M.A.R.T. test shows UltraDMA CRC Errors on the drive.

Sorry for the barrage of questions, just curious.
It sounds like your 750GB drive isn't to be trusted. Those drives have a 3 year warranty. perhaps you can get an RMA from WD? Hopefully you have the original TiVo drive on the shelf.

The housekeeping question is a good one...however I've never noticed much of a difference between drives with respect to updating SP's, etc. Actually your old drive was faster so in theory going to a GP drive would slow things down, but again, I've never seen much difference either way.

Some adjustments just seem faster than others and I think that depends on the number of updates that have to be made plus the communications with TiVo's servers. In other words, shows that have a lot of data (many scheduled recordings) tend to take longer to move, delete, etc. than those that have a smaller amount of files. I'm sure how the changes affect other recordings, where each is with respect to priority and other considerations have an impact as well. However if it's working faster...that's always a good thing.
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Old 03-20-2011, 04:41 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by bobby4919 View Post
well... not so good success. My goal was to upgrade a 1TB Weaknees upgraded drive to 2tb (in a TivoHD) while saving all my shows and settings.

Ran:
1) jmfs to copy the drive
2) jmfs to expand it
3) winmfs to supersize it

On boot up in Tivo i got the error saying my external storage was missing. I told Tivo to go ahead and separate from the external storage. Several hours later Tivo finished booting. All my shows are there, the cable cards are paired, but i've only got 157 hours on a 2TB drive. Half of what it should be?

Did I do something wrong? Or is it maybe because Weaknees expanded the drive originally in an unconventional way.

Any ideas/help would be appreciated.

I can't see where you did something wrong. I would assume Weaknees set up the drive in some unconventional way or some way so one could not copy and expand to a larger drive.

I am curious if you are willing to do this. Run WIMMFS on the Weeknees drive and under View and click on the Msinfo function. Save the results and upload it this thread or PM it to me.

I'll do some testing with JMFS and WINMFS to see what if any differences in the way they write the partitions on the THD.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:53 PM   #103
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Here's how the Weaknees 1tb is formatted:

Mfsinfo (Drive 1)

Boot Page
Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
Active Boot Partition: 6 Active Root Partition: 7
Backup Boot Partition: 3 Backup Root Partition: 4

MFS Super Header
state=0 magic=ebbafeed
devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951652864

Zone Maps
Z0: type=0
map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=9239cb5b logstamp=14460519 num_bitmap=1
Z1: type=2
map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
free=532480 checksum=f0500485 logstamp=14530307 num_bitmap=14
Z2: type=1
map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
free=58488 checksum=7adb55f0 logstamp=14530328 num_bitmap=17
Z3: type=0
map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
free=262144 checksum=b67c259b logstamp=14460519 num_bitmap=1
Z4: type=2
map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
free=1024000 checksum=644183ce logstamp=14530307 num_bitmap=15
Z5: type=1
map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
next_map_start=310728705 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=310729693
zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
free=290288 checksum=dea4c07b logstamp=14530324 num_bitmap=17
Z6: type=2
map_start=310728705 map_size=34 backup_map_start=310729693
next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=-6148914691236517206
zone_first=310729728 zone_last=1951652863 zone_size=1640923136 min(chunk)=32768
free=5570560 checksum=a1227be4 logstamp=14530328 num_bitmap=17

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@309549120 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@309549121 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@309557313 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@310081601 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@310081602 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@310089794 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 260096@310614082 ( 127.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@310874178 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@311398466 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137629696@171919424 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS Second MFS application region 589824@311988290 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS Second MFS media region 171919360@64 ( 82.0G)
14 MFS New MFS Application 1024@312578114 ( 512.0K)
15 MFS New MFS Media 1640923136@312579138 ( 782.5G)
16 Apple_Free Extra 22894@1953502274( 11.2M)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040 Total DTV SD Hours: 908 0 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:03 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by bobby4919 View Post
Here's how the Weaknees 1tb is formatted:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@309549120 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@309549121 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@309557313 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@310081601 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@310081602 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@310089794 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 260096@310614082 ( 127.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@310874178 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@311398466 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137629696@171919424 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS Second MFS application region 589824@311988290 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS Second MFS media region 171919360@64 ( 82.0G)
14 MFS New MFS Application 1024@312578114 ( 512.0K)
15 MFS New MFS Media 1640923136@312579138 ( 782.5G)
16 Apple_Free Extra 22894@1953502274( 11.2M)

Total SA SD Hours: 1040 Total DTV SD Hours: 908 0 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160
As per the PM I sent you and for the rest. It appears that partition 16 is hosing the expand using JMFS.

JMFS ALWAYS will write a new partition and in this case the THD saw it as the external drive and when you divorced them. It reverted back to the 1TB total.


From what I've been reading that Apple_Free is not used by the Tivo and probably can be deleted..... I just don't know how.

I just found this on MFSlive FAQ:

How many times can I expand using mfstools?
To answer this questions, we need to know how tivo drive is organized.
Tivo drive can have up to 16 partitions per drive.

"A" drive
Partition 1 - Modified Apple Partition Map
Partition 2 - Bootstrap 1
Partition 3 - Kernel 1
Partition 4 - Root 1
Partition 5 - Bootstrap 2
Partition 6 - Kernel 2
Partition 7 - Root 2
Partition 8 - Linux Swap
Partition 9 - /var
Partition 10 - mfs application region 1
Partition 11 - mfs media region 1
Partition 12 - mfs application region 2
Partition 13 - mfs media region 2
Partition 14 - mfs application region 3
Partition 15 - mfs media region 3
Partition 16 - Apple free

So, JMFS will not work on a drive that already has 16 partitions.
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:10 PM   #105
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As per the PM I sent you and for the rest. It appears that partition 16 is hosing the expand using JMFS.

JMFS ALWAYS will write a new partition and in this case the THD saw it as the external drive and when you divorced them. It reverted back to the 1TB total.


From what I've been reading that Apple_Free is not used by the Tivo and probably can be deleted..... I just don't know how.

I just found this on MFSlive FAQ:

How many times can I expand using mfstools?
To answer this questions, we need to know how tivo drive is organized.
Tivo drive can have up to 16 partitions per drive.

"A" drive
Partition 1 - Modified Apple Partition Map
Partition 2 - Bootstrap 1
Partition 3 - Kernel 1
Partition 4 - Root 1
Partition 5 - Bootstrap 2
Partition 6 - Kernel 2
Partition 7 - Root 2
Partition 8 - Linux Swap
Partition 9 - /var
Partition 10 - mfs application region 1
Partition 11 - mfs media region 1
Partition 12 - mfs application region 2
Partition 13 - mfs media region 2
Partition 14 - mfs application region 3
Partition 15 - mfs media region 3
Partition 16 - Apple free

So, JMFS will not work on a drive that already has 16 partitions.
Apple_Free isn't really a partition, it's what unpartitioned space gets called when the Apple_Partition_Map is used.

If you delete it, it'll be back again next restart of the drive.
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:49 PM   #106
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Quote:
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Apple_Free isn't really a partition, it's what unpartitioned space gets called when the Apple_Partition_Map is used.

If you delete it, it'll be back again next restart of the drive.
The Stock THD Drives doesn't have it...

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@171920054 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@171920055 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@171928247 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@172452535 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@172452536 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@172460728 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 262144@172985016 ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@173247160 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@173771448 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@174951096 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@174361272 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)

Total SA SD Hours: 165 Total DTV SD Hours: 144 56 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:36 PM   #107
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The Stock THD Drives doesn't have it...

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@171920054 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@171920055 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@171928247 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@172452535 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@172452536 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@172460728 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 262144@172985016 ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@173247160 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@173771448 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@174951096 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@174361272 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)

Total SA SD Hours: 165 Total DTV SD Hours: 144 56 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160
Perhaps they figured out how not to leave any unpartitioned space, since Apple_Free is what they call the unpartitioned leftovers at the end of the drive.

This may very well not be a magic feature of the Apple Partition Map scheme, but rather the interpretation the pdisk command puts on unpartitioned space.

It would be interesting to move some Tivo partitions around so that the unused space is somewhere in the middle instead of the end and see if it comes up with the same self-restoring name.
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:20 PM   #108
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Perhaps they figured out how not to leave any unpartitioned space, since Apple_Free is what they call the unpartitioned leftovers at the end of the drive.

This may very well not be a magic feature of the Apple Partition Map scheme, but rather the interpretation the pdisk command puts on unpartitioned space.

It would be interesting to move some Tivo partitions around so that the unused space is somewhere in the middle instead of the end and see if it comes up with the same self-restoring name.
Is it possible that was a S3 and older way of doing the partitions?

FYI, the TP doesn't have an Apple_Free entry either.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:30 PM   #109
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Is it possible that was a S3 and older way of doing the partitions?

FYI, the TP doesn't have an Apple_Free entry either.
Apple_Free is the name given to unpartitioned space. If there is no unpartitioned space, there won't be an entry in the Partition Map that'll get the Apple_Free label.

Partitioning is apparently an arcane art that involves choosing between cylinder bounderies or MB boundries or unaligned, and cluster sizes, and other confusing stuff, so sometimes there's some slack at the end, and sometimes there's not.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:30 AM   #110
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Carrying on...

When I did all of my previous testing of JMFS it was using REV .86, so thought it was time to see what happens with REV 1.04 on the THD.

I have done several Copy & Expand on various sizes of drives. Kinda sad I have that many spare drives....

I went from the stock 160G to a 200G, then from the 200G to a 320G and then from the 320G to a 500G.

by now I had 16 partitions and all of the above drives booted up in the THD with no burps.


This is the partition map for the 500G:
Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@171920054 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@171920055 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@171928247 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@172452535 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@172452536 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@172460728 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 262144@172985016 ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@173247160 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@173771448 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@174951096 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@174361272 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS media region 3 78140160@312581808 ( 37.3G)
15 MFS MFS media region 4 234420480@390721968 ( 111.8G)
16 MFS MFS media region 5 351630720@625142448 ( 167.7G)

Total SA SD Hours: 519 Total DTV SD Hours: 453 86 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160


So I did the next obvious step of going from the 500G to a 2TB.

Here is that partition map before I powered it up in the THD:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@171920054 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@171920055 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@171928247 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@172452535 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@172452536 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@172460728 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 262144@172985016 ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@173247160 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@173771448 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@174951096 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@174361272 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS media region 3 78140160@312581808 ( 37.3G)
15 MFS MFS media region 4 234420480@390721968 ( 111.8G)
16 MFS MFS media region 5 351630720@625142448 ( 167.7G)
17 MFS MFS media region 6 2930253887@976773168 ( 1.4T)

Total SA SD Hours: 2083 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 97 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160

The THD powered up and gave me the can't find the external drive screen, so I let it divorce that partition. After which it booted up like it should.

And here is the after partition map now:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@171920054 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@171920055 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@171928247 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@172452535 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@172452536 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@172460728 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 262144@172985016 ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@173247160 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@173771448 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@174951096 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@174361272 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS media region 3 78140160@312581808 ( 37.3G)
15 MFS MFS media region 4 234420480@390721968 ( 111.8G)
16 MFS MFS media region 5 351630720@625142448 ( 167.7G)
17 MFS MFS media region 6 2930253887@976773168 ( 1.4T)

Total SA SD Hours: 519 Total DTV SD Hours: 453 86 % Free
Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160

Interesting it did not delete #17, but the % free space went back to 86% the same as the 500G.

It appears that the THD will truly only work with 16 partitions. And that JMFS will copy & expand as long as one keeps it under 17 partitions.


Here is partition map for a 1tb created by WIMMFS to a 2tb created by JMFS:

Partition Maps
#: type name length base ( size )
1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@309550766 ( 512.0 )
3 Image Kernel 1 8192@309550767 ( 4.0M)
4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@309558959 ( 256.0M)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@310083247 ( 512.0 )
6 Image Kernel 2 8192@310083248 ( 4.0M)
7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@310091440 ( 256.0M)
8 Swap Linux swap 262144@310615728 ( 128.0M)
9 Ext2 /var 524288@310877872 ( 256.0M)
10 MFS MFS application region 589824@311402160 ( 288.0M)
11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@171920054 ( 65.6G)
12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@311991984 ( 288.0M)
13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@312581808 ( 1.0M)
15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 1640919040@312583856 ( 782.5G)
16 MFS MFS media region 3 1953524159@1953502896( 931.5G)

Total SA SD Hours: 2083 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 96 % Free
Software: 11.0j-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160

When WINMFS expands the drive it creates 2 partitions. If one was to try to copy & expand this drive once more, it would probably see that as an external drive and stop at that point.

Hopefully the above will explain why WINMFS/JMFS can/can't copy & expand a drive.

of course, if someone wants to prove me wrong......
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:53 PM   #111
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Arrow Some of my own JMFS/WinMFS experiences with the TiVo HD

retiredquest: I'm not at all disagreeing with you, and my intent is not to degrade all the effort you put into your testing and reporting your findings. I'm just going to report what I know, as an adjunct to what you have posted.
----
I've done the same testing, with the exception of not ever using JMFS Rev .86. I have only used JMFS Rev 1.04.

I was going to post a similar post to yours a while back, but most of the info regarding WinMFS and TiVo partition limits has already been covered in this forum, as well as the MFS Live Forums (as well as several other forums).

I had to do my research due to the 1.26TB limit when using WinMFS on a TiVo HD with a 2TB drive, combined with my HD units only lasting for about three months after installing the "Broflovski Image" (after updating to most recent TiVo software release).

What would happen was that the tables would build up inode entries that exceeded the maximum set (not sure how they were set, or by what means).

This would cause the GSOD reboot loop (which you can not recover from, and lose everything, since re-imaging is required) if you used KickStart commands 57, 58, or 52, or sometimes even just upon rebooting the TiVo (especially if doing a "hard", power cord-pull, reboot). I used a Hex Editor from a forensics utility to read the drive sector-by-sector, in raw mode, seeking out the system logs.

The logs revealed multiple tables with excess entries, and logged the successful removal of excess entries in some tables, but then one would pop an "unable to repair" log entry. Which would flag the drive as having an error, initiate reboot, and run the equivalent of a KickStart 57 at boot time.

The GSOD would then appear, but only for a few minutes, followed by a reboot, then another GSOD, repeating to infinity (I let it run in GSOD loop mode for a full 24 hours). Again, using the hex editor, I examined the system logs, and it was repeatedly trying and failing to reduce the number of table entries to within the max limit.

I then would run every hard drive diagnostic I had, including the mfg (WD) tools, and find that the drive had no errors. Then, I would wipe the drive and do destructive writing tests, reading tests, and read/write pattern/random/max seek tests. All reported no problems and performance well within the drive specs. Image again, repeat the above steps, three months later, try doing a reboot only, then KS 57, 58, and/or 52. Same GSOD loop result...

What I did to upgrade to 2TB was to take a stock, never booted, THD drive, re-install it in the TiVo HD, let it update to 11.0j (now would be 11.0k), then run all the KS commands as before, do a C&DE, pull the power at reboot, then use JMFS 1.04 to copy & expand to the 2TB drive, then WinMFS to supersize. Voila! No more problems.

I suspect that it may have helped, that, as of TiVo HD software release 11.0h, TiVo added support for larger external drives, which I think resulted in the tables getting either a higher max inode entry limit, or otherwise somehow resulting in excess entries being trimmed down without a failure while doing so. The "Broflovski Image" has software version 11.0d. Perhaps the structure of that image (which is a TiVo HD XL image that has been gutted to the point of requiring a repair operation upon the fist boot-up), may be the source of the "excess inodes/table" problem.

Now that my HD units are running normally, I don't want to pull the drives to examine the logs (not yet, anyway).

So, I'm fully agreeing with you on the 16 partition limit, as well as that you can just keep adding partitions with each drive size upgrade, until you hit 16.

The ONLY thing that concerns me a bit, regarding how JMFS sets up partitions, is that JMFS doesn't add in pairs. The author of WinMFS felt that the "two partition sandwich", which I forget which other TiVo partition is in the middle of the sandwich, is the way it should be. His refusal to allow just adding one partition could not be swayed for years, and still remains so. His reasons included that doing it any other way was not "optimized" for best drive performance & TiVo performance, as well as breaking backwards compatibility with other versions of his software.

I will say that it does seem that my TiVo HDs are slower in the menus, take longer to index Guide Cache, and slow down more when recording than I recall them being when I used WinMFS (with it's "optimized partition structure") and limited the drive to 1.26TB. But, it's a small price to pay to upgrade to a full 2TB, and not encounter the problems I did with the "Broflovski Image".

On the flip-side, JMFS 1.04 does things the same way with TiVo Premieres, adding just one huge partition, and my four 2TB Premieres run way faster than they did with stock drives (I almost never see the "green circle of please wait", unless my broadband speed is lagging, as opposed to seeing it with every menu screen change and every page-up/page-down in the NPL).

The only thing that irks me, otherwise, is that there are people who post that the "Broflovski Image" gives them no problems. I experienced problems using it on four TiVo HDs (two are now retired for spare parts, or perhaps to be sold on e*). I just don't understand how that can be. Two of my HD units are 1st generation revisions, while the other two are most recent generation revision units. It's not that others report differently that bugs me, it's wondering why I have problems, and they don't. Perhaps there are factors in play that only affect me (and maybe others who just don't post about it)...

I think I covered everything. Anybody, feel free to chime in.

Quoted portion snipped to save space:

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredqwest View Post
Carrying on...

When I did all of my previous testing of JMFS it was using REV .86, so thought it was time to see what happens with REV 1.04 on the THD.

I have done several Copy & Expand on various sizes of drives. Kinda sad I have that many spare drives....

I went from the stock 160G to a 200G, then from the 200G to a 320G and then from the 320G to a 500G.

by now I had 16 partitions and all of the above drives booted up in the THD with no burps.

When WINMFS expands the drive it creates 2 partitions. If one was to try to copy & expand this drive once more, it would probably see that as an external drive and stop at that point.

Hopefully the above will explain why WINMFS/JMFS can/can't copy & expand a drive.

of course, if someone wants to prove me wrong......

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Old 03-28-2011, 05:54 PM   #112
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Would HDClone copy a Tivo drive?

macmike12 - mail >at< mikealrhughes >dot< com

Thanks for any help.
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Old 03-28-2011, 06:13 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by macmike12 View Post
Would HDClone copy a Tivo drive?

macmike12 - mail >at< mikealrhughes >dot< com

Thanks for any help.
Welcome to the forum. I saw your duplicate post on another thread. I'm not sure about HDClone, but the free Linux program dd or dd_rescue will clone a drive bit-for-bit, however I'm not clear about what you want to do. It sounds like you want to upgrade a TiVo, but I'm not sure which model exactly or why you want to clone a TiVo drive. There are a lot of knowledgable and helpful folks here that can guide you, but more info would be welcome.

Last edited by richsadams : 03-28-2011 at 06:18 PM. Reason: Tyop…d'oh!
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:43 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmike12 View Post
Would HDClone copy a Tivo drive?

macmike12 - mail >at< mikealrhughes >dot< com

Thanks for any help.
Since you've posted this question in 2 different threads (and eagle-eye Rich spotted both), I'm going to go all counter-intuitive on you and suggest you post it a third time, but this time in a brand new thread of its own, in either the TiVo Help Center or the Tivo Upgrade Center.

Tell us exactly which TiVo model you're asking about, the model (brand, size, model number) of the drive you want to copy and the brand, size, model number of the drive to which you want to copy, and, most importantly, why you want to do this. Tell us what your end goal is, and we'll help you figure out how best to get there.














In other words
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:38 PM   #115
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I just registered to post the success of upgrade. I followed the steps in the first post and upgraded my Tivo HD with 2 tb drive. The drive I used is WD20EADS. Thanks for nice summary and steps.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:56 PM   #116
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I just registered to post the success of upgrade. I followed the steps in the first post and upgraded my Tivo HD with 2 tb drive. The drive I used is WD20EADS. Thanks for nice summary and steps.
Congrats and enjoy your "new" TiVo!
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:44 AM   #117
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well... not so good success. My goal was to upgrade a 1TB Weaknees upgraded drive to 2tb (in a TivoHD) while saving all my shows and settings.

Ran:
1) jmfs to copy the drive
2) jmfs to expand it
3) winmfs to supersize it

On boot up in Tivo i got the error saying my external storage was missing. I told Tivo to go ahead and separate from the external storage. Several hours later Tivo finished booting. All my shows are there, the cable cards are paired, but i've only got 157 hours on a 2TB drive. Half of what it should be?

Did I do something wrong? Or is it maybe because Weaknees expanded the drive originally in an unconventional way.

Any ideas/help would be appreciated.
I had exactly the same result, except I copied a drive that I used WinMFS to make. Disappointing result, but it sounds like I could get a successful result if I copied the original drive instead, true?
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:20 AM   #118
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but it sounds like I could get a successful result if I copied the original drive instead, true?
Absolutely.
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Old 03-30-2011, 11:01 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by suggest THIS View Post
I had exactly the same result, except I copied a drive that I used WinMFS to make. Disappointing result, but it sounds like I could get a successful result if I copied the original drive instead, true?
Myself and several others have copied & expanded a WINMFS drive using JMFS. In fact just tried it again over the past weekend. Did a 1TB to a 2TB.


Don't know what you did nor what "disappointing result" means.

Did you read the first post in this thread?
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:11 PM   #120
suggest THIS
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Don't know what you did nor what "disappointing result" means.

Did you read the first post in this thread?
Thanks for replying. I did the same procedure that bobby4919
desribed in the text I quoted:

Ran:
1) jmfs to copy the drive
2) jmfs to expand it
3) winmfs to supersize it


And I got the same results he did:

On boot up in Tivo i got the error saying my external storage was missing. I told Tivo to go ahead and separate from the external storage. Several hours later Tivo finished booting. All my shows are there, the cable cards are paired, but i've only got 157 hours on a 2TB drive.

I followed the directions in the first post, under "Updated 2/11/2011."

I think the problem may be that my source drive is a copy-of-a-copy.
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