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Old 01-04-2011, 10:47 PM   #1
Tivoitis
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Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS

I thought it might be helpful to separate out the users that are trying to upgrade a Tivo HD using comer's JMFS tools. The original thread is here and the tools were designed for the Premiere, but based upon the experience of several members (including myself), it appears to work fine for Tivo HD's as well. If you intend to expand only to a maximum of 1.26TB, then you're probably better off sticking with WinMFS and the instructions in this thread.
If you're a little adventurous and you want to expand and fully utilize a 1.5TB/2.0TB drive, then you can try out this recipe:
  1. Use an original 160GB Tivo HD Drive - if it doesn't have the latest software, install it back into your Tivo HD and force it to upgrade to the latest version (11.0j currently).
  2. Burn a copy of JMFS Live onto a CD (or run it from a USB drive) from the Premiere Drive Upgrade thread. Follow those directions to connect and boot up with (1) the original 160GB Tivo HD drive and (2) the new 1.5TB/2.0TB drive.
  3. Run the menu item to do the disk copy from your original drive to your new drive.
  4. Run the menu item to do the expansion of your new drive.
  5. If you want to verify the AAM setting, you can go to the command line in JMFS and use "hdparm -M <device>". A value of 128 indicates that the drive is set for the quietest mode.
  6. Depending upon the drive you're using, you may also want to use "wdidle3.exe" to check and if necessary, disable the idle timeout for your drive to prevent a "soft reboot" issue. Please refer to Section IV, #29 of the original upgrade FAQ for the full details.
  7. If you want to supersize the drive for the Tivo HD, then DO NOT USE the JMFS menu option to Supersize!!! This option will only work with Premiere drives. Instead, shutdown and then connect the new drive to a computer with WinMFS and use WinMFS to "turn on supersize". On a 2TB drive, the WinMFS supersize will increase your recording time from 288 hrs to 318 hrs.
  8. Install the new drive back into your Tivo HD and enjoy!

Updated 2/11/2011 (and caveat added 8/14/2011):
Thanks to some pioneering work by KenVa, if you wish to keep all of the shows on your current THD, you can possibly use a WinMFS expanded drive as a source (see teiland's posts starting here to confirm the state of your WinMFS source drive for some possible issues):
  1. Burn a copy of JMFS Live (at least v1.04) onto a CD (or run it from a USB drive) from the Premiere Drive Upgrade thread. Follow those directions to connect and boot up with (1) a WinMFS expanded, Tivo HD drive and (2) the new 1.5TB/2.0TB drive.
  2. Run the menu item to do the disk copy from your source drive to your new drive.
  3. Run the menu item to do the expansion of your new drive.
  4. If you want to verify the AAM setting, you can go to the command line in JMFS and use "hdparm -M <device>". A value of 128 indicates that the drive is set for the quietest mode.
  5. Depending upon the drive you're using, you may also want to use "wdidle3.exe" to check and if necessary, disable the idle timeout for your drive to prevent a "soft reboot" issue. Please refer to Section IV, #29 of the original upgrade FAQ for the full details.
  6. If you want to supersize the drive for the Tivo HD, then DO NOT USE the JMFS menu option to Supersize!!! This option will only work with Premiere drives. Instead, shutdown and then connect the new drive to a computer with WinMFS and use WinMFS to "turn on supersize". On a 2TB drive, the WinMFS supersize will increase your recording time from 288 hrs to 318 hrs. If you already did the "turn on supersize" step with your source drive, you do not need to do it with the new drive as well - that setting will have been copied over already.
  7. Install the new drive back into your Tivo HD and enjoy!

Notes:
Thanks:
  • Props to comer for building the JMFS tools and also to retiredqwest for being the pioneering, first brave soul to try out and document success with the Tivo HD (and particularly for using WinMFS to do the supersize)!
  • Thanks also to KenVa for showing us how to use an already expanded drive as a source for those that want to carry over their current recordings.
  • Thanks to teiland for identifying some additional issues with WinMFS source drives.


Last edited by Tivoitis : 08-14-2011 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:40 PM   #2
retiredqwest
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Yes, you pretty much have the methodology on expanding the THD.


2 things bear mentioning...

1. Dual docking stations are not recognized by the underlying linux OS on the JMFS CD.


And lastly... no it will not read a S3 drive.....
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THD 1.5TB Seagate = 237 hrs HD
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XL4 = 318 hrs HD

Last edited by retiredqwest : 02-12-2011 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:07 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by retiredqwest View Post
Yes, you pretty much have the methodology on expanding the THD.


2 things bear mentioning...

1. Dual docking stations are not recognized by the underlying linux OS on the JMFS CD.
Is this what you mean by a dual docking station? *sigh* That's annoying. I bought one thinking it would work, it just hasn't arrived yet.

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2. You can NOT expand a THD previously expanded drive as the source for JMFS. JMFS will add the new partition, THD will not see it. JMFS was written for the Premiere, not the THD. That it even works is fortunate, so as to break the 1.2 GB barrier.
Yup, I can (re)confirm that. I'll expand on it a bit, in fact, though perhaps this is in the other thread. The JMFS software reports success and 287 hours on expanding. But the THD on boot comes up to a "no external storage device found" page. If you ENTER to confirm, you're allowed to divorce the external storage (which is really some odd side effect of trying JMFS to expand the previously upgraded drive which never did have an external drive).
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:16 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Tivoitis View Post
[*]If you want to supersize the drive for the Tivo HD, then DO NOT USE the JMFS menu option to Supersize!!! This option will only work with Premiere drives. Instead, shutdown and then connect the new drive to a computer with WinMFS and use WinMFS to "turn on supersize". On a 2TB drive, the WinMFS supersize will increase your recording time from 288 hrs to 318 hrs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredqwest View Post
2. You can NOT expand a THD previously expanded drive as the source for JMFS. JMFS will add the new partition, THD will not see it. JMFS was written for the Premiere, not the THD. That it even works is fortunate, so as to break the 1.2 GB barrier.
OK, this is an appropriate thread because I just today tried upgrading a TivoHD drive to 1 TB drive.

I *did* start with the orig 160 GB Tivo HD drive. But I *DID* use the JMFS supersize menu option.

The drive is currently working in my TivoHD.. but still has the same size (21 HD hours, 184 SD hours).

Is the fact that I used supersize the reason it didn't work? That's what I don't quite understand... I would kind of understand if it wasn't working at all.

I used supersize since it said it would use less advertizing space so I thought I'd get extra space even on just a 1 TB drive.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:15 AM   #5
retiredqwest
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Is this what you mean by a dual docking station? *sigh* That's annoying. I bought one thinking it would work, it just hasn't arrived yet.
That is the one I have. It has something to do with port replicating using one USB cable. The Duet does work with Windows... FWIW

When I copied the THD drive I used a spare computer and connected the drives to the motherboard sata ports.
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THD 1.5TB Seagate = 237 hrs HD
Premiere WD20EVDS = 317 hrs HD.
XL4 = 318 hrs HD
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:22 AM   #6
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OK, this is an appropriate thread because I just today tried upgrading a TivoHD drive to 1 TB drive.

I *did* start with the orig 160 GB Tivo HD drive. But I *DID* use the JMFS supersize menu option.

The drive is currently working in my TivoHD.. but still has the same size (21 HD hours, 184 SD hours).

Is the fact that I used supersize the reason it didn't work? That's what I don't quite understand... I would kind of understand if it wasn't working at all.

I used supersize since it said it would use less advertizing space so I thought I'd get extra space even on just a 1 TB drive.
In step 6

Quote:
If you want to supersize the drive for the Tivo HD, then DO NOT USE the JMFS menu option to Supersize!!! This option will only work with Premiere drives. Instead, shutdown and then connect the new drive to a computer with WinMFS and use WinMFS to "turn on supersize". On a 2TB drive, the WinMFS supersize will increase your recording time from 288 hrs to 318 hrs.
Remember, JMFS was written for the TP..... Comer does not even have a THD.
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THD 1.5TB Seagate = 237 hrs HD
Premiere WD20EVDS = 317 hrs HD.
XL4 = 318 hrs HD
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:57 PM   #7
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In step 6



Remember, JMFS was written for the TP..... Comer does not even have a THD.
But you didn't answer my question. What happens if you DO use supersize?

Do I have to start over and recopy everything?
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:09 PM   #8
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But you didn't answer my question. What happens if you DO use supersize?

Do I have to start over and recopy everything?
The short answer is I don't know.

You could try WINMFS and see if it turns on supersize. And pop it back into the THD and see what you get.
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THD 1.5TB Seagate = 237 hrs HD
Premiere WD20EVDS = 317 hrs HD.
XL4 = 318 hrs HD
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:17 PM   #9
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I have no Windows machine. I'm doing this on a Mac (booting into the Linux-based jmfs in this case). I might try running the other tools compiled on a Mac, since I have a S3 to upgrade anyway. I might just try redoing the tivohd with jmfs though.
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Old 01-23-2011, 02:25 PM   #10
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Thanks TIVOITIS!!

Thanks TIVOITIS for posting this procedure. It worked great!!!
Also, thanks to all that contributed to the hours coming up with the upgrades and procedures. I'll be donating soon!!!!

I tried just using jmfs exclusively and kept getting the the 21 HD hours on my 2TB drive. So with your procedure of combining the two methods, it worked for me. I now have 318 HD hours on my TIVO HD.


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Old 01-23-2011, 03:14 PM   #11
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I should have posted again last night. Redoing everything the same except NOT supersizing, my 1 tb drive now shows up expanded on my tivohd.

Now I'll have to do the old method to expand my s3 drive since jmfs doesn't work with s3.

So I'll eventually post in the main jmfs thread that it should disallow supersize for tivohd drives.

This thread should maybe become a sticky.
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
OK, this is an appropriate thread because I just today tried upgrading a TivoHD drive to 1 TB drive.

I *did* start with the orig 160 GB Tivo HD drive. But I *DID* use the JMFS supersize menu option.

The drive is currently working in my TivoHD.. but still has the same size (21 HD hours, 184 SD hours).

Is the fact that I used supersize the reason it didn't work? That's what I don't quite understand... I would kind of understand if it wasn't working at all.

I used supersize since it said it would use less advertizing space so I thought I'd get extra space even on just a 1 TB drive.
Sorry, I haven't been on the site in a little while, but yes, the JMFS Supersize causes problems with THD's. I think you have to drop to the command line to try repairing it, but I'm not even sure if I ever got that to work - I think I pretty much always had to start from scratch if I did the JMFS Supersize instead of using the WinMFS Supersize.
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:59 PM   #13
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Can you make it so that it recognizes a TivoHD and *won't* allow you to supersize? That's the best option for now..
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:20 AM   #14
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Can you make it so that it recognizes a TivoHD and *won't* allow you to supersize? That's the best option for now..
That would be a question for comer ... I'm not sure if JMFS has code that would allow it to detect the difference between a Premiere drive and a THD drive.
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:20 PM   #15
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SA-SMCvic: Are you saying that you have a single upgraded 2TB internal drive in your Tivo HD? I'd love to hear that that is possible since I just experienced my external hard drive failing. previously I had upgraded my Tivo HD to 1TB internal hd and 1TB external hard drive. Now the external drive failed (which I see is a weak point in this upgraded scenario). Once I figure out if I can save my data in any fashion, I'd prefer a single 2TB internal hard drive.

Since the 2 drives are married, I don't know how I can try to recover data from a failing drive when it must stay married to another drive.

Thanks.
Lynn.

Last edited by lynnalexandra : 01-31-2011 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Edited to get email notifications
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:30 PM   #16
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SA-SMCvic: Are you saying that you have a single upgraded 2TB internal drive in your Tivo HD? I'd love to hear that that is possible since I just experienced my external hard drive failing. previously I had upgraded my Tivo HD to 1TB internal hd and 1TB external hard drive. Now the external drive failed (which I see is a weak point in this upgraded scenario). Once I figure out if I can save my data in any fashion, I'd prefer a single 2TB internal hard drive.

Since the 2 drives are married, I don't know how I can try to recover data from a failing drive when it must stay married to another drive.

Thanks.
Lynn.
TiVo HD/HDXL 2TB Upgrade instructions: http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sho...d.php?t=462179 (or you could scroll up to the first post of this thread )

You'll need to use your original hard drive for the 2TB upgrade. If you want to save your existing recordings you'll need to transfer any (that aren't protected) to another TiVo or to your computer using TiVo Desktop or KMTTG or a similar program and then transfer them back when you're done.

Last edited by richsadams : 01-31-2011 at 07:40 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:37 PM   #17
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TiVo HDXL Instructions

Now that I look at the first post on this thread, I note that it's for a basic TiVo HD (160GB HDD). I can't recall...has someone with a TiVo HDXL (1TB HDD) used jmfs to upgrade to a 2TB drive? I can't see any reason it wouldn't work, but it would be good to have confirmation. TIA
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:13 PM   #18
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Rich - I have a basic Tivo HD. I upgraded with your wonderful guidance 1 1/2 years ago. I do have the original drive - is the upgrade to 2TB any harder than the upgrade I did using Winmfs?

Now the big problem is that I can't get the external hard drive to work - Tivo keeps saying the external hard drive is missing. I was hoping it would work at least once so I could transfer my recordings. (I did post about this on a separate thread - but haven't gotten responses:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...41#post8351241

Thanks.
Lynn.
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:14 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
SA-SMCvic: Are you saying that you have a single upgraded 2TB internal drive in your Tivo HD? I'd love to hear that that is possible since I just experienced my external hard drive failing. previously I had upgraded my Tivo HD to 1TB internal hd and 1TB external hard drive. Now the external drive failed (which I see is a weak point in this upgraded scenario). Once I figure out if I can save my data in any fashion, I'd prefer a single 2TB internal hard drive.

Since the 2 drives are married, I don't know how I can try to recover data from a failing drive when it must stay married to another drive.

Thanks.
Lynn.
I upgraded a TiVo HD to 1TB and more recently a Premiere to 2TB. It is my understanding that the 2TB upgrade also works to expand an original TiVo HD drive, but you then have to use a different method to "Supersize" it (to recover those last few hours of recording space).

If your external drive is readable, you might be able to clone it to an identical drive using Acronis or something similar, but if you try that then use the bootable CD version. You need something that can copy raw data from one drive to another. The consensus seems to be that you should not connect a TiVo drive to a computer running Windows. (I've cloned drives with Acronis, but not TiVo drives.)
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:59 PM   #20
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Rich - I have a basic Tivo HD. I upgraded with your wonderful guidance 1 1/2 years ago. I do have the original drive - is the upgrade to 2TB any harder than the upgrade I did using Winmfs?

Now the big problem is that I can't get the external hard drive to work - Tivo keeps saying the external hard drive is missing. I was hoping it would work at least once so I could transfer my recordings. (I did post about this on a separate thread - but haven't gotten responses:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...41#post8351241

Thanks.
Lynn.
See my answer there:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...16#post8354416

Best of luck!
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:50 AM   #21
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Now that I look at the first post on this thread, I note that it's for a basic TiVo HD (160GB HDD). I can't recall...has someone with a TiVo HDXL (1TB HDD) used jmfs to upgrade to a 2TB drive? I can't see any reason it wouldn't work, but it would be good to have confirmation. TIA
I can't confirm if JMFS will work with the Tivo HDXL (like you, I imagine that it would), but since WinMFS can work, I'd recommend that first. WinMFS can do a truncated backup and restore from that truncated backup, so it would be faster and more efficient to use that. Duplicating 1TB via JMFS, especially through a dock and the documented time it's taken others to duplicate the 320GB of the Premiere implies it might take 36 hours or so to duplicate the THDXL's 1TB.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:53 PM   #22
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I can't confirm if JMFS will work with the Tivo HDXL (like you, I imagine that it would), but since WinMFS can work, I'd recommend that first. WinMFS can do a truncated backup and restore from that truncated backup, so it would be faster and more efficient to use that. Duplicating 1TB via JMFS, especially through a dock and the documented time it's taken others to duplicate the 320GB of the Premiere implies it might take 36 hours or so to duplicate the THDXL's 1TB.
So you're recommending creating a truncated backup of a TiVo HDXL's 1TB drive via winMFS and then using that image to upgrade to a 2TB drive with jmfs? I understand the time concept being superior but since a 2TB upgrade can't be done using winMFS I guess I'm not clear on how or if that would work...or how it would work for folks wanting to save all of their recordings as well. Or am I confused (nothing unusual)?
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:43 PM   #23
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L. David - thank you for the guidance about cloning with Acronis (if the drive is even readable) - and booting from the acronis bootable cd (and not letting windows run). So first I'll have to see if my drive is readable - not sure how to do this other than putting the drive in another enclosure (or esata dock?) - connect that to the Tivo HD - see if the Tivo can find the external drive?

Thanks.
Lynn.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:08 PM   #24
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L. David - thank you for the guidance about cloning with Acronis (if the drive is even readable) - and booting from the acronis bootable cd (and not letting windows run). So first I'll have to see if my drive is readable - not sure how to do this other than putting the drive in another enclosure (or esata dock?) - connect that to the Tivo HD - see if the Tivo can find the external drive?

Thanks.
Lynn.
If there's a problem with data corruption on the external drive, cloning it would just transfer the problem. If the drive itself is good and the enclosure is the problem, then putting it in another enclosure (probably not a dock per my other post) would resolve things.

In your case there's a very good chance that the problem is with the hard drive itself and not the enclosure since you're using an MX-1. The enclosure idea came from the experiences of folks using the original 500GB WD My DVR Expanders. Those enclosures seemed to cause about 50% of the failure rate. Your setup is different.

FWIW Windows used to auto-format drives back in the Win95 days or so. Now there's no problem connecting a TiVo drive to a Windows machine (something one must do to run winMFS of course). The issue arises if someone were to use Windows Disk Management to format the drive so that they could "see" the drive on their Windows machine via "My Computer". Doing that could/would wipe the boot partition making it useless to TiVo.

2nd FWIW, the free unix/linux programs dd or dd rescue can create an identical copy of a hard drive. But again, garbage in, garbage out or an unnecessary activity in this case.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:54 PM   #25
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So you're recommending creating a truncated backup of a TiVo HDXL's 1TB drive via winMFS and then using that image to upgrade to a 2TB drive with jmfs? I understand the time concept being superior but since a 2TB upgrade can't be done using winMFS I guess I'm not clear on how or if that would work...or how it would work for folks wanting to save all of their recordings as well. Or am I confused (nothing unusual)?
Hmm, maybe I'm confused. I was under the impression that a Tivo HDXL could be upgraded to 2TB using WinMFS because the original Tivo HDXL drive is already 1TB and can be expanded by a maximum of 1.1TB more, which could then max out a 2TB drive. In the case of the Tivo HD, we start with 160GB, so with WinMFS we would only be able to expand up to 1.26TB.

So my suggestion for Tivo HDXL owners (assuming that WinMFS does work in this situation) is to just use WinMFS. They can use the truncated backup if there are no shows they need to save or use the full copy (mfscopy) if they want to save their shows.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:38 PM   #26
L David Matheny
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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
L. David - thank you for the guidance about cloning with Acronis (if the drive is even readable) - and booting from the acronis bootable cd (and not letting windows run). So first I'll have to see if my drive is readable - not sure how to do this other than putting the drive in another enclosure (or esata dock?) - connect that to the Tivo HD - see if the Tivo can find the external drive?

Thanks.
Lynn.
(I just saw your other thread.) I defer to Rich's judgment and (probably to a lesser extent) that of the TiVo tech. Rich is probably right that cloning isn't likely to get you anywhere, but when you have a clone in hand, even a corrupted one, you are free to "have your way with it" without fear of harming the original. Of course in your situation peace of mind would come only from having clones of both drives, internal and external.

One other thought, if money is no object: You could save both current drives pending some future breakthrough or insight and go ahead with your upgrade to a new 2TB drive (from the original 160GB) using Comer's JMFS. This would be like Dr. House putting the patient on ice to have more time for differential diagnosis. Once you've upgraded though, you would have to be pretty confident of success to take your TiVo apart again.

OK, one more thought: If money is really no object, this might be the time to consider buying a Premiere to use for the 2TB upgrade. Good luck!
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:55 PM   #27
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This would be like Dr. House putting the patient on ice to have more time for differential diagnosis.
LOL...what a great and oh-so-apropos analogy!

FWIW I'm hoping that Lynn will be able to run the Kickstarts, get everything resolved and then go ahead and upgrade to a 2TB internal drive. Fingers crossed.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:33 PM   #28
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L. David - I wish money were no object at all - but $300 for the Premiere and another $300 for a life time subscription is a lot to pay when I have a Tivo HD - who internal upgraded 1TB drive seems to be fine - and I have a lifetime subscription on it. I have a perfectly fine Tivo - it's the external drive that's the problem. If the Tivo itself were failed - or didn't have a lifetime guarantee, I could see getting the Premier.

My main problem now is whether I can save my data.

I love the idea of putting the patient on ice - only it would mean putting a living breathing tivo HD on ice (that has cable cards paired already) - and dealing with Comcast again.

Rich - I wish I could get kickstart running - but my many attempts didn't work. I followed the Tivo instructions - but the machine never responded. Too bad the problem is not likely to be the enclosure. I guess that's why the Antec's are so expensive compared to other enclosures.

I am puzzled at why the kickstart gets no response. Not really sure what else to try - although when I get some time this weekend, I'll hook it all back up again and try - just in case.

Thanks.
Lynn.
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Old 02-05-2011, 07:00 AM   #29
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Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 3,052
Arrow TiVo HD upgrades using JMFS tools, plus WinMFS

I have successfully upgraded my TiVo HDs using JMFS for copying and expanding, then using WinMFS to SuperSize them.

It cured the problem I was having using the "Broflovski Image" to get to 2TB.

That problem involved getting caught is GSOD loops when using KS commands, which would require re-imaging, as well as losing everything that was on the unit.

Best of luck.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:51 PM   #30
Wulf
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 31
I just want to report another success upgrading a TivoHD to 2TB using comer's JMFS tool, and the instructions at the start of this thread. A couple of observations and hints for other relative newbs like me:
  1. I used a WD20EARS drive.
  2. wdidle3 is a DOS application. I burned a boot CD image from http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ so I could boot to DOS and the run wdidle3 from there.
  3. HDDScan wouldn't allow me to make the AAM changes on my drive, so I used an older version of the Hitachi Feature Tool to make the change. I think HDDScan would have worked if I had right clicked the executable and chosen "Run as Administrator", but I didn't think of that at the time.
  4. JMFS worked without any issues and was super-easy to use.
  5. WinMFS did not detect any of my hard drives at first, but then I figured out that I had to copy the executable to my Windows 7 system's hard drive, right click and choose "Run as Administrator" and then it showed the Tivo drive.
  6. WinMFS executes the Supersize command pretty much instantly. There's no feedback that it has done it, but the Tivo says it did based on seeing 318 hours of space.
  7. My PC case is accessible so I did all the connecting of drives right to the motherboard. This eliminated any concerns with using external drive docks.
Thank you to comer for developing the process and others who have posted useful info to enable expansion of the TivoHD to 2TB.

Last edited by Wulf : 02-07-2011 at 06:55 PM. Reason: fixed a typo...
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