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Old 11-23-2010, 12:27 AM   #1201
gespears
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I doubt. Given various issues Tivo has with 2TB barrier and the fact (I reiterated a few times) that 2TB is 4 byte with all bits set (the max number that can be expressed in 4 bytes) of 512-byte blocks - I firmly believe that Tivo just won't work on/with anything larger than 2TB. It's just not made for it.
Bummer.
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Old 11-23-2010, 02:52 PM   #1202
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So I just read through way too much of this thread. I assume that the version that is supposed to allow you to bless an external drive for use on a Tivo has not been released yet?
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:37 PM   #1203
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So I just read through way too much of this thread. I assume that the version that is supposed to allow you to bless an external drive for use on a Tivo has not been released yet?
No. Tivo has an issue with too much of storage
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:19 PM   #1204
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I'm going to attempt a 2TB WDEARS(9/08) in my Premiere. Can anyone give me a quick pointer on what I need to do other than the instructions in Comer's sig?
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:55 PM   #1205
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I see a lot of people using the WD AV drives. Are these drives really better for AV applications? I have 2 1 TB drives lying around, both Seagate. Should I consider using one of them, or do the AV drives withstand the 24/7 writing the Tivo does to the HD better than a standard hard drive does?
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:19 PM   #1206
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4TB issues

So, less than 2 weeks after adding external 2TB drive, my TIVO is not longer functioning. The counter got to -380% and then Tivo got stuck in reboot cycle with GSODs in between.

Not good, not good...
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:01 PM   #1207
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Update:

Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.

Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.

Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now...
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:18 PM   #1208
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Update:

Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.

Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.

Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now...
When the professionals stopped offering the 2+2 that was a warning something was not working correctly as been said before, your experience just confirmed a problem. We will all have to live with 327 hours of HD record time until or unless another solution is found.
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:29 PM   #1209
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Update:

Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.

Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.

Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now...
I am sorry, man Download it and your uberness shall be restored
Thanks a lot for trying it, great contribution!
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:19 PM   #1210
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When the professionals stopped offering the 2+2 that was a warning something was not working correctly as been said before, your experience just confirmed a problem. We will all have to live with 327 hours of HD record time until or unless another solution is found.
Well, yeah, that what you get for being a guinea pig, but someone has to try it. It would've been nice if the "professionals" contributed to the community if only by giving a warning. Both "professionals" gave vague answers about disappearance of 2+2, with one claiming not having drives in stock (!). IMO, the number of enthusiasts willing to do the upgrade themselves is infinitesimal to affect any business model. The "professionals" would get much respect by contributing back to the community that added a great deal to their success.

BTW, I checked the drive, it appears perfectly healthy. All SMART parameters are green, don't see any issues at all. It would be much better if it was a particular bad drive vs. the obvious alternative...
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:46 PM   #1211
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Update:

Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.

Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.

Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now...
Sorry to hear about that...TiVo Pioneers sometimes pay the price for the rest. Thanks for giving it a shot.

FWIW recordings are striped across both the internal and external drives (to meet certain regulations), not dedicated to one or the other so no matter what happens, when an external drive is divorced all recordings made since the expansion drive was attached will be lost.

Glad to hear your second drive is good...you can always repurpose it. At least your TiVo still has 2TB's of real estate! Thanks again for putting yourself out there.
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:47 AM   #1212
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I see a lot of people using the WD AV drives. Are these drives really better for AV applications? I have 2 1 TB drives lying around, both Seagate. Should I consider using one of them, or do the AV drives withstand the 24/7 writing the Tivo does to the HD better than a standard hard drive does?
One thing to consider about A/V drives is they are probably using a different firmware algorithm to recover from bad sectors.

For a typical consumer drive the mfr sets the firmware to retry and retry and retry and retry for a long time when it encounters a bad sector. That way Joe Sixpack is less likely to lose any files from his porn collection.

But A/V is different. Nobody wants to have a box freeze up while the drive retries. So instead the drive will report an error more quickly (and return bad data). This bad block might cause some pixellation on the screen, but then life goes on, the show goes on.

I don't know how frequently that situation occurs. Sorry to not have anything more constructive to tell you.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:52 AM   #1213
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I see a lot of people using the WD AV drives. Are these drives really better for AV applications? I have 2 1 TB drives lying around, both Seagate. Should I consider using one of them, or do the AV drives withstand the 24/7 writing the Tivo does to the HD better than a standard hard drive does?
I just ordered a 2TB WD AV drive from Buy.com for $114.

On reading Western Digital product information I got the impression what they have in mind for the design of the AV drives is commercial DVR use, like for CCTV DVRs constantly recording multiple streams or theaters(?) or POS displays. In other words really 7x24 heavy recording use. Yeah, in our TiVo we are constantly recording 2 streams, but some CCTV DVRs record 8 streams.

So the AV drive is overkill for a TiVo but for me it's a good choice to spend the extra $20 or so when I'm buying the drive purposely for the TiVo.

The mission for a regular drive is more random read/write access than a DVR needs. That's why, among other things, for general purpose PC use the more cache on the drive is better, but for DVR use it barely matters.

I'd have no hesitation to use the regular WD Green drive if the street price of the AV drive wasn't that close.
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:32 PM   #1214
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High-capacity drives really should be tested before use!

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BTW, I checked the drive, it appears perfectly healthy. All SMART parameters are green, don't see any issues at all. It would be much better if it was a particular bad drive vs. the obvious alternative...
Dan,

just because SMART says things are OK doesn't mean they are. Also, even if you do a full surface-scan Read with no errors, doesn't mean the drive is OK. (I found that out the hard way, at ~800G in to a 1TB drive, a few years back.) I see people buying new drives all the time and installing them, assuming they must be fine because they are new. Odds are they may be, but a significant percentage are not, depending on brand and how they were packed for shipping. They then report a few weeks or months later about how their new drive went bad so soon, when in fact it was already bad when they slipped it out of the anti-stat bag. They just didn't know it yet.

If you really want to know if your drive is 100% or not, I'd recommend that you download and run the Lifeguard Diagnostic utility from Western Digital. This can be run on drives from any manufacturer.

Run the Quick Test first, which will weed out any obviously bad drives in about a minute. I also like to start (and then stop after 20 seconds) the Extended Test, which exercises the servos to move the heads rapidly around in a random pattern. But then abort, since that test only performs a Read, and won't find all potential problems. The last step is the slow one, which is Write Zeroes with Full Erase. You'll find that on a 2 TB drive this will run for 22-23 hours (at least mine does, off a SATA-USB2 interface cable... eSATA may be faster), but when it finishes you'll know for sure. If there are any spots on the drive where blocks cannot be successfully written, this will find them.

Using this methodology has kept me from putting ~7 defective drives into operation over the years (which went right back to Newegg), out of about 100 or so. Of course, not all of those were 2 TB drives, maybe 50 or 60 (the majority were 1.5 TBs). I found the time spent on burn-in acceptance testing to be very worthwhile to me. YMMV.

Last edited by VideoGrabber : 11-26-2010 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 11-26-2010, 07:49 PM   #1215
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Also, even if you do a full surface-scan Read with no errors, doesn't mean the drive is OK. (I found that out the hard way, at ~800G in to a 1TB drive, a few years back.) I see people buying new drives all the time and installing them, assuming they must be fine because they are new. Odds are they may be, but a significant percentage are not, depending on brand and how they were packed for shipping.
I agree with your observation, and I think a large part of the problem is because consumer grade drives are dirt cheap. Which means the manufacturers can't afford to test them very well.

It takes about 3 hrs to do a single read pass of a 1 TB drive. A manufacturer is making millions of these drives a year. So he can't afford to do too many surface scans on any individual drive. I suspect that the manufacturing test involves no more than 1 full write pass followed by 1 full read test. Or maybe not even that, maybe just a read of 10% of sectors. Plus of course additional tests on a very small subset of sectors. This is not sufficient testing to weed out marginal drives. That's where the end user comes in. They're the final QC.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:00 PM   #1216
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success with a WD20EARS! lowered AAM to 128, ran wdidle3, copied, expanded, supersized. No problem with a reboot through the menus.

Thanks Comer!!! and Rich!! and everyone else!
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Old 11-27-2010, 09:48 AM   #1217
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success with a WD20EARS! lowered AAM to 128, ran wdidle3, copied, expanded, supersized. No problem with a reboot through the menus.

Thanks Comer!!! and Rich!! and everyone else!
No problem Congratulations, enjoy!
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Old 11-27-2010, 04:14 PM   #1218
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Comer,

You were going to try and find a way to get any external to work on a Tivo. Have you given up on that?
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Old 11-27-2010, 06:01 PM   #1219
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Comer,

You were going to try and find a way to get any external to work on a Tivo. Have you given up on that?
External - no problem. More than 2TB - no way.
So if you want to add a 100G external to stock 320G - it's all fine.
But if you expanded to full 2TB and want to add 100G to that - there's a bug.
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Old 11-27-2010, 11:41 PM   #1220
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How do I add an external?

So, if I bought an external, say a 1 TB. How do I get that to work with my Tivo Premiere?
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:58 PM   #1221
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Does this upgrade process transfer the current content on the drive so you don't have to get the cable card re-paired ?
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Old 11-28-2010, 01:42 PM   #1222
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Does this upgrade process transfer the current content on the drive so you don't have to get the cable card re-paired ?
Yes.
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:03 PM   #1223
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Yes.
Thanks. Think I will give it a try. I like the idea of having the original drive as a backup. In case a drive goes bad some day.
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:07 PM   #1224
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Thanks. Think I will give it a try. I like the idea of having the original drive as a backup. In case a drive goes bad some day.
Excellent plan. Happy upgrading!
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Old 11-28-2010, 06:55 PM   #1225
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Anyone experienced an unexpected reboot? I had one happen yesterday.
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Old 11-29-2010, 01:36 PM   #1226
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I'm about to have my Premiere arrive in the mail any day now. I was wondering, could I make an image of the original drive? As in, a file or set of files backed up on my PC. I was thinking maybe doing an image of the original and then doing some heavy duty LZMA2 compression.
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Old 11-29-2010, 05:10 PM   #1227
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Hi All, I am about to buy a 2TB drive for Tivo Premiere Upgrade? Which one should I pick? Thanks!!!!

Western Digital 2 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD20EARS

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

OR

Seagate Barracuda LP 2 TB 5900RPM SATA 3 GB/s 32 MB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive ST32000542AS-Bare Drive

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barrac...ecc_rvi_cart_1
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Old 11-29-2010, 06:06 PM   #1228
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Hi All, I am about to buy a 2TB drive for Tivo Premiere Upgrade? Which one should I pick? Thanks!!!!

Western Digital 2 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD20EARS

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

OR

Seagate Barracuda LP 2 TB 5900RPM SATA 3 GB/s 32 MB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive ST32000542AS-Bare Drive

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barrac...ecc_rvi_cart_1
I'd go with the WD20EARS since it's a proven commodity here. The Seagate may work fine, but AFAIK it's untested w/TiVo.
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Old 11-30-2010, 06:42 AM   #1229
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Run the Quick Test first, which will weed out any obviously bad drives in about a minute. I also like to start (and then stop after 20 seconds) the Extended Test, which exercises the servos to move the heads rapidly around in a random pattern. But then abort, since that test only performs a Read, and won't find all potential problems. The last step is the slow one, which is Write Zeroes with Full Erase. You'll find that on a 2 TB drive this will run for 22-23 hours (at least mine does, off a SATA-USB2 interface cable... eSATA may be faster), but when it finishes you'll know for sure. If there are any spots on the drive where blocks cannot be successfully written, this will find them.
Thank you for the suggestion. The write test ran for about 5 hours and finished successfully, so it's not the drive...
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:33 PM   #1230
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Another upgrade success

I just finished upgrading my TP with a new WD20EVDS that I bought new on EBay for $95 & free shipping. Everything worked as advertised. The process took around 2 1/2 hours with SATA connections on both drives.

I decide to monitor the temperature of both drives during the copy process with a simple digital thermometer. I found that the 320 GB drive maxed out at 91 deg F, and the 2 TB maxed out at 95 deg F. Not bad considering the additional size and mass of the 2 TB drive.

Thanks for all of your hard work comer, I'll be clicking on your donation button here in the next couple days.
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