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Old 11-19-2010, 11:14 PM   #271
tinkererguy
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This Monday, I will have a new WD20EVDS 2TB drive and a new TiVo Premiere, already activated and tied to my account (supposedly, as told by tivo.com sales).

I've worked with Series 3 upgrades in the past, and am familiar with using old school dd copy techniques to keep programs, and cablecard config stays intact.

This time, I'm getting a m-card visit on Tuesday (Cox still doesn't do self-install), but I'd like to have Premiere ready by Monday night.

I plan to replace the Premiere drive with the new 2TB drive, using JMFS 1.04 for the copy using boot CD, with 2 sata ports on a PC.

Am I better off:
a) copy/expand prior to using the Premiere (removing the Premiere drive before even plugging it in for the first time)
b) turn on the Premiere first (skipping cablecard set up), then let it finish doing updates (forcing if needed), then remove drive and copy/expand?

Then on Tuesday I'll configure the m-card with Cox. And when the 2TB dies someday, I'll have the original to copy the original image from again to a new drive, although I will have re-activate the m-card, of course.

Any thoughts/suggestions appreciated!
Does somebody have screenshots of how JMFS actually looks doing a copy/expand?
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:33 AM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkererguy View Post
Am I better off:
a) copy/expand prior to using the Premiere (removing the Premiere drive before even plugging it in for the first time)
b) turn on the Premiere first (skipping cablecard set up), then let it finish doing updates (forcing if needed), then remove drive and copy/expand?

Any thoughts/suggestions appreciated!
I'm actually doing option "A", right now. I'm trying it on two different Premiere units. The first finished all the jmfs procedures just fine (according to the program). But I still have to verify/adjust the AAM & Idle Timer settings before I can fire it up and see what happens. The second unit is still in the copy process.

I've noticed that you may have to reboot a few times to get the "drive model" listed properly in the drive selection screens (all the drive parameters were correct, but the model was listed as "*unknown*").

I'm getting about 40MB/sec data transfer rate with SATA. At that speed, it's only taking a few hours per drive. I went with the WD20EADS drives, that I got for $79/each w/free shipping from NewEgg a while back (A big "Thank You" to the person who posted that deal and the required discount code).

Since disabling AAM and disabling the Idle Timer, with the WD20EADS drives, worked so well with my THDs, I'm probably going to do the same with the Premieres. But, I thought it may also make sense to query the factory drives and see what TiVo has them set to (and perhaps just use those parameters).

I'll report back when I am all done (or if it turns out that something goes wrong).
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Old 11-20-2010, 03:12 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by tcfcameron View Post
I'm actually doing option "A", right now. I'm trying it on two different Premiere units. The first finished all the jmfs procedures just fine (according to the program). But I still have to verify/adjust the AAM & Idle Timer settings before I can fire it up and see what happens. The second unit is still in the copy process.

I've noticed that you may have to reboot a few times to get the "drive model" listed properly in the drive selection screens (all the drive parameters were correct, but the model was listed as "*unknown*").

I'm getting about 40MB/sec data transfer rate with SATA. At that speed, it's only taking a few hours per drive. I went with the WD20EADS drives, that I got for $79/each w/free shipping from NewEgg a while back (A big "Thank You" to the person who posted that deal and the required discount code).

Since disabling AAM and disabling the Idle Timer, with the WD20EADS drives, worked so well with my THDs, I'm probably going to do the same with the Premieres. But, I thought it may also make sense to query the factory drives and see what TiVo has them set to (and perhaps just use those parameters).

I'll report back when I am all done (or if it turns out that something goes wrong).
Everything worked flawlessly. 317 HD hours.

It could be easy to forget to supersize, as it requires you to back up one menu level after you expand the drive. (Just something to watch for).

I went with AAM & Idle Timer both disabled (done via boot floppy with Hitachi Feature Tool v2.12 & WDIDLE3 v1.05).

Thank You, Comer!

Last edited by tcfcameron : 11-20-2010 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 11-20-2010, 08:52 AM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkererguy View Post
This Monday, I will have a new WD20EVDS 2TB drive and a new TiVo Premiere, already activated and tied to my account (supposedly, as told by tivo.com sales).

I've worked with Series 3 upgrades in the past, and am familiar with using old school dd copy techniques to keep programs, and cablecard config stays intact.

This time, I'm getting a m-card visit on Tuesday (Cox still doesn't do self-install), but I'd like to have Premiere ready by Monday night.

I plan to replace the Premiere drive with the new 2TB drive, using JMFS 1.04 for the copy using boot CD, with 2 sata ports on a PC.

Am I better off:
a) copy/expand prior to using the Premiere (removing the Premiere drive before even plugging it in for the first time)
b) turn on the Premiere first (skipping cablecard set up), then let it finish doing updates (forcing if needed), then remove drive and copy/expand?

Then on Tuesday I'll configure the m-card with Cox. And when the 2TB dies someday, I'll have the original to copy the original image from again to a new drive, although I will have re-activate the m-card, of course.

Any thoughts/suggestions appreciated!
Does somebody have screenshots of how JMFS actually looks doing a copy/expand?
Technically it does no matter - it will work either way. From cable-card setup point of view, I would do it after card is configured, as I understand the procedure to do it takes time, tech visit and otherwise quite involved. This way all the settings will be kept backed up on the original drive.
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:41 PM   #275
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Does it work on a Series 2?

This sounds like great work, but I am looking to upgrade an old Series 2. Will the new jmfs tool work for that, or do I need to revert to the older tools. I gave my old series 2 to a friend who is interested in expanding the drive until they make the move the HD.

Thanks.
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Old 11-20-2010, 11:31 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by chrisbac View Post
This sounds like great work, but I am looking to upgrade an old Series 2. Will the new jmfs tool work for that, or do I need to revert to the older tools. I gave my old series 2 to a friend who is interested in expanding the drive until they make the move the HD.

Thanks.
Chris
With a Series 2 why would you not just use WinMFS, there is no advantage to this new tool (for a Series 2) and no risk using WinMFS.
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Old 11-21-2010, 01:11 AM   #277
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I thought I'd post some information about a short experiment performed with JMFS and a TiVo HD. (I decided to experiment with a drive that was not being used, 320GB WD Scorpio Blue).

I started with the stock TiVo HD drive (160GB) with 11.0j installed.
  1. Performed a copy with JMFS to the 320GB drive. (~2 hrs using ESATA docks)
  2. Performed an expand and then a supersize using JMFS.
  3. Placed the drive back in the TiVo HD. It booted fine, but only displayed the standard 21 hrs.
  4. Tried an expand again with JMFS, expand failed since it had already been done.
  5. Tried Supersize again with JMFS, tool reported success, but again had no effect when placed back in the TiVo.
  6. Used WinMFS to turn SuperSize on (no other modifications using WinMFS)
  7. Placed back in TiVo and rebooted. TiVo reported 47 HD hrs.
  8. Trying to fill up to test extra space now to verify space actually works.

Now this was more of an experiment with JMFS than anything else, but now makes me wonder why the final WinMFS supersize made everything work. Are the 2 performing supersize in a different way?

Last edited by vectorcatch : 11-21-2010 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 11-21-2010, 02:11 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vectorcatch View Post
I thought I'd post some information about a short experiment performed with JMFS and a TiVo HD. <snip>
Interesting stuff and some good data points. Thanks for taking the time to share.
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Old 11-21-2010, 02:13 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisbac View Post
This sounds like great work, but I am looking to upgrade an old Series 2. Will the new jmfs tool work for that, or do I need to revert to the older tools. I gave my old series 2 to a friend who is interested in expanding the drive until they make the move the HD.

Thanks.
Chris
Hi Chris. As Les suggests...all you need to do is use winMFS to replace/upgrade the drive in your Series2. All you need to know can be found here:

http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/
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Old 11-22-2010, 12:17 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comer View Post
Technically it does no matter - it will work either way. From cable-card setup point of view, I would do it after card is configured, as I understand the procedure to do it takes time, tech visit and otherwise quite involved. This way all the settings will be kept backed up on the original drive.
Getting ready by preparing my new 2TB WD20EVDS that arrived today. Verified the acoustic settings was at 128 (factory defaults), indeed it was. Then I made sure to idle timeout disabled using "WDIDLE /D" (factory defaults was 8 seconds).

As far as the before/after cablecard question, I'll probably do a WinMFS backup of the drive before it's ever even booted, just as a sort of a just-in-case. I'll then be able to safely/easily try many scenarios for the jmfs copy/expand procedures, should I wind up having any issues with booting.
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:13 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkererguy View Post
I'll probably do a WinMFS backup of the drive before it's ever even booted, just as a sort of a just-in-case. I'll then be able to safely/easily try many scenarios for the jmfs copy/expand procedures, should I wind up having any issues with booting.
WinMFS isn't capable of backing up, and/or restoring, Premiere drives.

To the best of my knowledge, no such tools exist for the Premiere (yet).

The only backup option that you have, with the Premiere, is to use Comer's software to make a full backup to another drive of the same size, and then shelve that drive as your "backup".
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Old 11-22-2010, 02:52 AM   #282
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Arrow The EASY way to set AAM & Idle Timer on WD drives

The EASY way to set AAM & Idle Timer on WD drives:

I have accidentally stumbled upon an easy way to get your new WD GP or AV-GP drive(s) set up with your desired AAM & Idle Timer settings, WITHOUT HAVING TO MESS AROUND WITH YOUR BIOS SETTINGS!

1. Download the IBM/Hitachi Feature Tool v2.12 - It must be the floppy disk version, that includes an installer that creates the bootable disk. IT MUST BE VERSION 2.12.

2. Download "WDIDLE3.EXE" v1.05 (earlier versions don't work with the newest drives).

3. After creating the Feature Tool bootable disk, simply copy WDIDLE3.EXE to the same disk.

4. Forget about changing your BIOS settings (the SATA/IDE mode settings), as it won't be necessary.

5. With your WD hard drive(s) hooked up, and the floppy disk inserted, power-on your computer. Let the floppy boot up into the Feature Tool software.

6. Use the Feature Tool software to set your desired AAM setting.

7. Exit the Feature Tool software, turn on CAPS LOCK, run WDIDLE3.EXE /? from the command prompt to get the list of options. Set your desired timeout (which should be /D for "Disabled" when the drive is going to be used in a TiVo).

8. Power down, or reboot, depending on what you want to do next. These settings can be changed at ANY TIME, without affecting the data on the drive.

Why does this work? It's because the Feature Tool software loads the appropriate drivers and sets the communication mode in a way that allows changes to be made to the drive's settings.

It's very likely that this can be done with a CD/DVD or flash drive. But, I have not verified that yet.
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:24 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcfcameron View Post
WinMFS isn't capable of backing up, and/or restoring, Premiere drives.

To the best of my knowledge, no such tools exist for the Premiere (yet).

The only backup option that you have, with the Premiere, is to use Comer's software to make a full backup to another drive of the same size, and then shelve that drive as your "backup".
Ah yes, I missed that rather important fact, thank you for setting me straight.
I have found I have a spare 320GB drive (WD3200KS) to use Comer's software to copy to as a backup.

As usual, glad I posted here!
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Last edited by tinkererguy : 11-22-2010 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:26 AM   #284
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The EASY way to set AAM & Idle Timer on WD drives...
Ah yes, it had struck me how silly it was to be using 2 different boot media to do these simple tasks, simply hadn't bothered to meld the two together.

Thank you!
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:51 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by tcfcameron View Post
WinMFS isn't capable of backing up, and/or restoring, Premiere drives.

To the best of my knowledge, no such tools exist for the Premiere (yet).

The only backup option that you have, with the Premiere, is to use Comer's software to make a full backup to another drive of the same size, and then shelve that drive as your "backup".
For technically inclined and adventurous:
you can make a truncated backup manually. All recordings will be gone, but their names will be stuck in the list - so you must do C&DE after you restore such backup. Here's how to do it:
The parts where you identify drives/fdisk and such can be taken from JMFS instructions from post #1, Advanced usage. But think twice if you don't know what it is - you will have hard time to succeed.
  1. Run ./mfslayout.sh for your Tivo drive.
  2. Make a note of start blocks of 'MEDIA data' regions in 'Zones Physical' layout part. We will strip those - they take the larges space and contain only video data.
  3. Now the task is to 'dd' or 'ddrescue' everything before, after and between these regions. To give you an example: stock drive has two of those. So there will be 2 parts - one 64 blocks from 0, another from the end of 1st until start of 2nd: size (355788706-343818304=11970402) blocks from 343818304. For JMFS-expanded drives you will have 3 regions, so there will be 3 parts. Compressed on highest setting all together it should take ~800M - will fit on CD
  4. Write down the offsets you used and keep together with the backup - use them to restore - just 'dd' those parts on their places on the disk.

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Old 11-22-2010, 10:52 AM   #286
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For technically inclined and adventurous:
You can make a truncated backup manually. All recordings will be gone, but their names will be stuck in the list - so you must do C&DE after you restore such backup. <snip>
Good stuff. The caveat being that unlike an MFSTools or winMFS truncated backup, having to run a C&DE will wipe out cable card pairing, SP's, WL's, etc. But there will be a servicable image which in an emergency is very good to have.

Although it's a bit more expensive I like Cameron's idea of creating a full backup hard drive and putting it on the shelf. That way if something happens there's very little down time with simply swapping out the drives...plus you can use it to create a new drive and keep all of your settings.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:20 AM   #287
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So, when will this method be made "windows compatible"?
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:02 AM   #288
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So, when will this method be made "windows compatible"?
It is "Windows compatible." You just reboot your Windows machine with the CD you were free to burn in Windows.
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Old 11-23-2010, 03:23 PM   #289
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Do I really need to use an AV drive? I have 2 TB drives sitting around not being used right now. I don't want to spend money if I don't have to.
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:39 PM   #290
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Good stuff. The caveat being that unlike an MFSTools or winMFS truncated backup, having to run a C&DE will wipe out cable card pairing, SP's, WL's, etc. But there will be a servicable image which in an emergency is very good to have.

Although it's a bit more expensive I like Cameron's idea of creating a full backup hard drive and putting it on the shelf. That way if something happens there's very little down time with simply swapping out the drives...plus you can use it to create a new drive and keep all of your settings.
Actually, I may have misnamed it. Only recordings need to be cleared. Season passes, cable card and the rest of the settings are not in Media areas, so they would be preserved by such backup.
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:41 PM   #291
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Do I really need to use an AV drive? I have 2 TB drives sitting around not being used right now. I don't want to spend money if I don't have to.
Though opinions differ, the prevalent is - no, you don't have to use an A/V drive.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:54 PM   #292
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Well, first the good news:

a) copy 320GB original (never booted) Premiere drive
It took about 5 hours to copy (chosen from jmfs menu) the original 320GB to spare 2007-vintage WD3200KS 320GB drive (22kB/s avg), using jmfs boot CD from internal SATA ports on a desktop. I said "No" to the expansion question at the end, the copy failed to boot in Premiere (said almost done for >10 minutes), powered off for 15 sec, then 2nd try it booted right up

b) copy 320GB original (never booted) Premiere drive to new 2TB drive
It took about 4 hours (faster target drive)
In menu, chose yes to expansion, then ran supersize, uneventful, no errors noted.
It too failed to boot on the first attempt I believe, but on the 2nd try no problem, great, shows 317 HD hours! I then hooked it up to the TV and internet for 3rd boot, did the guided setup, then let it sit for an hour, it then rebooted with new code level, seems to behave OK, but most channels blank, of course.

c) m-card install by cable company
11:00am
Cox showed about half hour late, but he had m-card, and activated it by phone conversation with his support people, and was done in 30 minutes

d) Season Passes
4:00pm, it became clear from tivo.com/spm (Season Pass Manager) that I messed up something when trying to transfer passes from old S3 TiVo (which now has antenna-only connection) to new TiVo (which had unavailable/encrypted cable channels and antenna). So I redid the guided set up, this time it's on latest Software Version. Now things worked nicely, Season Pass Manager online seems to like latest code, makes sense. Was just trying to have something working by the time family got home

Now, the bad news:
e) 7:15pm
Power (Green) TiVo Premiere Green Light ON
Transfer (Blue) TiVo doing a transfer from TiVo Desktop PC
Recording (Red) TiVo doing a recording of single show on a single tuner
We had live TV on, and suddenly, without anybody pressing an bluetooth slider remote keys, Premiere suddenly putting out plain Green screen, with lights on Premiere staying on (as explained below), but unresponsive to IR or bluetooth commands. So unplugged for 10 seconds, not long enough, back to green screen. Unplugged for 20 seconds, this time no picture at all. Unplugged for 5 minutes, this time normal TiVo starting menu for 2 minutes, then black video output, nothing.

Seems I might be destined to head back to the original Premiere hard drive to see if I can stay up on that drive.

Anybody have ideas on what I may have done wrong?
Or something else I can try in jmfs before I resort to going to the original drive?
Is there any point in waiting 3 hours on a black screen?
-whereas on green screen, I'm supposed to wait 3 hours I read here:
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/511

Thanks all, and yes, this all takes a lot of time (copies whole drive apparently). And while I don't have a backup of a 320GB original drive with cablecard configured (ran out of hours before cable guy was due to arrive), I may be able to talk Cox support into pairing the new m-card remotely should I wind up on the original drive.
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:03 PM   #293
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Clarification to previous post:
The first, sudden green screen was showing identical output of plain green fullscreen to both the HDMI and composite (remote TV) outputs. The other boot, which started first as a normal TiVo boot for 2 minutes roughly, followed by green over HDMI turns out to still be green on HDMI, but it is outputting black on composite.

I suppose I'll just wait 2 more hours and see what happens (after 3.5 hrs total)...
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:24 PM   #294
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After 3.5 hrs of solid green screen, I gave up and unplugged (hard to tell if pattern of disk seeks was random or had patterns, as other noise nearby and AMM at 128 keeps things pretty quiet).

So I did a kickstart 54 SMART test (a lot easier to do than on S3!) and did the
"Run S.M.A.R.T. tests" option, which after about 5 minutes and a bunch of "Pass" messages, got this error message:

Confirm /dev/hdb
Cannot access /dev/hdb
Drive not present or not responding!


seconds later, this message came up:
Read, random locations on /dev/hda
TEST FAILED


Should I pull the drive at this point (and again run Western Digital boot CD diagnostics that it passed 2 days ago), and revert to the (already backed up) factory drive? I feel that is unlikely to fail the WD SMART test, as the messages above appear to be complaining out the filesystem, although since this is a Premiere maybe it just acts differently, I dunno, which is why I'm posting here for advice.

Should I instead try other kickstart options?
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:42 PM   #295
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Powered off once again (after the SMART tests) and this time, took out Bluetooth dongle and waited 5 minutes.

Then tada, I powered it back on and it booted just fine (HDMI almost there screen blanked briefly 3-4 times though). It's working now, as if nothing ever happened (and recording and file transfers restarted right away).

Time to call it a night, that's a relief, now it can index and process Seasons Passes and other housekeeping all night long. But this incident didn't exactly inspire family confidence.

I fully realize this whole problem may have been a bluetooth thing, or a Premiere 14.6-01-3-746 software thing, and not necessarily a jmfs-rev104 thing. I wouldn't know really, as I haven't run on the stock drive at all, at least I still have 2 320GB drives (original and jmfs created copy) on standby, just in case...
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Last edited by tinkererguy : 11-23-2010 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:29 AM   #296
mattack
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I just tried today and have been unable to get it to boot. I just get the flashing folder image with the "?" as it looks for system info to boot off of.

I made the boot DVD with Disk Utility. I think I will try again tomorrow using Toast and see if that makes a difference.
I successfully just made a boot disc with Disk Utility on my MacBook Pro on 10.5.8. I booted into it.. haven't yet hooked up my Tivo drives (my one fear is how is it going to not see the computer's INTERNAL drive and me accidentally obliterate that.. but I am still going to boot into it with the drives connected).
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:08 AM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
I successfully just made a boot disc with Disk Utility on my MacBook Pro on 10.5.8. I booted into it.. haven't yet hooked up my Tivo drives (my one fear is how is it going to not see the computer's INTERNAL drive and me accidentally obliterate that.. but I am still going to boot into it with the drives connected).
I believe the issue was that it was DVD and not CD
And don't worry about obliterating disks - the only thing that can do that is "copy" (expand and supersize won't even start if a disk does not have a valid Tivo file system on it) and before doing "copy" jmfs asks 2 times if you are sure.
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:32 AM   #298
rcobourn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkererguy View Post
Powered off once again (after the SMART tests) and this time, took out Bluetooth dongle and waited 5 minutes.

Then tada, I powered it back on and it booted just fine (HDMI almost there screen blanked briefly 3-4 times though). It's working now, as if nothing ever happened (and recording and file transfers restarted right away).

Time to call it a night, that's a relief, now it can index and process Seasons Passes and other housekeeping all night long. But this incident didn't exactly inspire family confidence.

I fully realize this whole problem may have been a bluetooth thing, or a Premiere 14.6-01-3-746 software thing, and not necessarily a jmfs-rev104 thing. I wouldn't know really, as I haven't run on the stock drive at all, at least I still have 2 320GB drives (original and jmfs created copy) on standby, just in case...
Tinkerguy, I have had similar problem, and also found removing the slide remote receiver allows for a normal bootup. I can then reinsert it. In fact, I also thought my upgrade had failed, until I disconnected everything and it fired right up.

The question I have is, does this happen regardless of the upgraded drive, or not.

It wasn't until after I got the software upgrade that the issue developed (first boot with new software). Either there is an issue with the new software and the slide remote or an issue with slide remote/new software/upgraded hard drive.

One thing I would recommend for anyone doing an upgrade: get your cablecard installed before the upgrade. That way the pairing won't need to be redone if you revert to the stock hard drive.
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Old 11-24-2010, 10:34 AM   #299
tinkererguy
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Fantastic, thank you rcobourn!

It has stayed up for 12 hours now, I'm tempted to plug bluetooth module back in (it's nice not having to aim the remote) and just watch out for the next code upgrade release date estimate, and see if I can pull the module out before that upgrade (to avoid family being greeted with a green screen the next morning).

Then again, my machine did spontaneously turn to green screen many hours after boot (with module inserted all the while), so perhaps I'm better off waiting until next software release. Are you saying you are stable for many days or weeks as long as the bluetooth module is not inserted at boot time?

As usual, it's good to know somebody is in the same boat as you, and I too wonder if bluetooth module acts like this in stock (non-upgraded) Premieres running 14.6-01-3-746
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Roamio Plus upgraded to 3TB
(had Premiere w/2TB WD20EVDS)
(had Series 3 w/ 1TB WD10EAVS)
Sony KDL-55HX800 55" TV
Sony STR-DA5600ES Amp
Sony RM-VL900 remote
DIRECTV '96-'06, Cox HD '06-present
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Old 11-24-2010, 01:43 PM   #300
scottb4u
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I am about to expand my Premiere to 2 tb internal.

Can this method be used for a 2 tb internal in an S3?
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