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Old 11-14-2010, 01:25 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Anthony GT View Post
Hmmm, my Premiere with 1 TB drive is showing 145 HD hours after Supersize. Will it mess anything up if I try to Supersize it again?
Like I said - I don't remember clearly So w/o Supersize it is 145h. With Supersize - 156
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:34 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
TiVo, Linux, Apple, etc. are unaffected by the 400K sector "advanced format"...it's only a Windows issue.
I don't think it's even a Windows issue or issue at all. If your partition block is not the same as harddrive block - you will experience performance degradation no matter what OS is used, particularly if harddrive's block is larger than partition's. It's easy to understand - if a partition has 512 byte block it writes/reads in these chunks. HDD in turn uses it's own blocks and only reads/writes in those chunks. If disk has 4K block, then every read/write of 512 bytes by OS will cause the whole 4K read/write. So essentially, OS will always cause 8 times the I/O it really needs. And, of course, the drive will be used 8 times "harder" if you will, in terms of service life. However, it's much more difficult to quantify due to cache an alike.

With all that said, one can specify an appropriate block size when creating a partiton, in any system. Except Tivo The partition block in it is fixed to 512 byte.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:44 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
you can Supersize at any time w/o affecting any of your recordings, etc. The result s/b 156 hours.
I reran Supersize on it and it worked this time. I wonder what I messed up the first time? Oh well, thanks!
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:49 PM   #244
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I reran Supersize on it and it worked this time. I wonder what I messed up the first time? Oh well, thanks!
Nice work. Enjoy!
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:48 PM   #245
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Thanks for the reply ... I planned poorly though and am still pulling old shows off my current drive (750GB) using Tivo Desktop (there isn't any faster method, is there?), so it'll be a while before I can actually do my first swap.

My WD20EURS has a manufacture date of 10/13/2010, and was factory set to "quiet" mode (code 128 when read with hdparm) and was factory set to an idle timeout of 8 seconds. I already disabled the idle timeout though - what's the reasoning behind using a timeout of 5 minutes versus just disabling it? I also just went ahead and copied the old drive, expanded and supersized it from the start, so I guess I'll be testing that configuration first.
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:01 PM   #246
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Thanks for the reply ... I planned poorly though and am still pulling old shows off my current drive (750GB) using Tivo Desktop (there isn't any faster method, is there?), so it'll be a while before I can actually do my first swap.

My WD20EURS has a manufacture date of 10/13/2010, and was factory set to "quiet" mode (code 128 when read with hdparm) and was factory set to an idle timeout of 8 seconds. I already disabled the idle timeout though - what's the reasoning behind using a timeout of 5 minutes versus just disabling it? I also just went ahead and copied the old drive, expanded and supersized it from the start, so I guess I'll be testing that configuration first.
That should all work fine. The AAM is set to 128 on all WD AV drives. You probably didn't have to disable or even tweak the Intellipark feature based on the manufacture date but no harm done. Setting it to 5 minutes was recommended in case folks decided to repurpose the drive later on and still wanted the feature.

There are other programs like KMTTG that are a little more robust compared to TiVo Desktop but the limitation is due to how TiVo is built, not so much the program used to transfer recordings.

Enjoy!
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:35 PM   #247
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I like KMTTG too, but it seems like Tivo Desktop does a better job of recovering and continuing with transfers. I had transfers using pyTivo and KMTTG that just stopped and I couldn't figure out a way to continue/restart the transfers without deleting and starting the transfers. Are there any other download tools that can manage the restart/continue like Tivo Desktop (or is it available in pyTivo or KMTTG and I just didn't find it?)?
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:24 AM   #248
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I like KMTTG too, but it seems like Tivo Desktop does a better job of recovering and continuing with transfers. I had transfers using pyTivo and KMTTG that just stopped and I couldn't figure out a way to continue/restart the transfers without deleting and starting the transfers. Are there any other download tools that can manage the restart/continue like Tivo Desktop (or is it available in pyTivo or KMTTG and I just didn't find it?)?
Outside of a few corrupted recordings I haven't had to deal with interrupted transfers...although I know folks post about them now and then. Hopefully someone has some suggestions.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:35 AM   #249
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Okay, so I've had a bit of fun trying to get this to work on my THD.
  • I tried copy, expand, and supersize from my original drive (which was at version 8.1.7c2). That went into a reboot loop.
  • I used WinMFS to make a truncated copy of my current drive (which is at v11.0j) and restored that to my new drive. When I tried to expand the new drive with JMFS, it failed. I put the new drive into my THD to see if it would be recognized. It went into recovery mode and fixed itself after 3 hrs. I removed it and tried to use JMFS to expand it again, but it again failed to complete the expansion.
  • I finally popped the original drive back into my THD and let it update to 11.0j. Once that was done, I used JMFS to copy, expand, and supersize the drive. JMFS said it completed successfully, and the new drive worked in my THD, but it only showed the original 28 HD hours. When I tried JMFS again to expand the drive, it failed to do the expansion.
  • I used JMFS again to copy from the original drive and then only expanded the new drive. This worked in my THD and showed 288 hours. I removed the new drive and tried to supersize it with JMFS, but when I put it back into my THD, it froze for a while and when it became responsive again, it was back to showing only 28 hours (and oddly enough, it was responsive only to remote code 2).
  • I'm re-copying the original drive and will only expand it and will live with it at "only" 288 hours in my THD.
Anyone have other ideas for me to try? Comer, if there's any log information I can provide or any diagnostics I can run, let me know and I'll do it. If not, I'm still happy and thankful to be able to use a 2TB drive!
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:15 AM   #250
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Okay, so I've had a bit of fun trying to get this to work on my THD.
  • I tried copy, expand, and supersize from my original drive (which was at version 8.1.7c2). That went into a reboot loop.
  • I used WinMFS to make a truncated copy of my current drive (which is at v11.0j) and restored that to my new drive. When I tried to expand the new drive with JMFS, it failed. I put the new drive into my THD to see if it would be recognized. It went into recovery mode and fixed itself after 3 hrs. I removed it and tried to use JMFS to expand it again, but it again failed to complete the expansion.
  • I finally popped the original drive back into my THD and let it update to 11.0j. Once that was done, I used JMFS to copy, expand, and supersize the drive. JMFS said it completed successfully, and the new drive worked in my THD, but it only showed the original 28 HD hours. When I tried JMFS again to expand the drive, it failed to do the expansion.
  • I used JMFS again to copy from the original drive and then only expanded the new drive. This worked in my THD and showed 288 hours. I removed the new drive and tried to supersize it with JMFS, but when I put it back into my THD, it froze for a while and when it became responsive again, it was back to showing only 28 hours (and oddly enough, it was responsive only to remote code 2).
  • I'm re-copying the original drive and will only expand it and will live with it at "only" 288 hours in my THD.
Anyone have other ideas for me to try? Comer, if there's any log information I can provide or any diagnostics I can run, let me know and I'll do it. If not, I'm still happy and thankful to be able to use a 2TB drive!
Thank you for the detailed account of your upgrade!
I think THD may have a problem with maximum disk size being set to 2T - that's what Supersize does. I don't recall - has it worked for anyone on THD?
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:24 AM   #251
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Thanks Comer!

What a great two weeks for Tivo in my world.

First, I looked into and finally got going with Streambaby - great software.
Second, the 6ave.com deal - 2 Premieres on their way - the better to stream and transfer at high speeds.
Then, reading up on Premiere upgrades here. Purchased 2 WD 2 TB caviar green drives in anticipation of receiving the Premieres.
Finally, last night I received the Tivos, activated 1 year prepaid service on each, pulled the drives and upgraded to the 2TB drives, supersized.

Now I have replaced my two old Tivo HDs with two shiny new Premieres with a year's worth of service and a total of over 600 HD hours of storage for a grand total of just over $600.

Now I've got my eye on two slider remotes and I'll be all set.


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Old 11-18-2010, 10:45 AM   #252
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Thanks Comer!

What a great two weeks for Tivo in my world.

First, I looked into and finally got going with Streambaby - great software.
Second, the 6ave.com deal - 2 Premieres on their way - the better to stream and transfer at high speeds.
Then, reading up on Premiere upgrades here. Purchased 2 WD 2 TB caviar green drives in anticipation of receiving the Premieres.
Finally, last night I received the Tivos, activated 1 year prepaid service on each, pulled the drives and upgraded to the 2TB drives, supersized.

Now I have replaced my two old Tivo HDs with two shiny new Premieres with a year's worth of service and a total of over 600 HD hours of storage for a grand total of just over $600.

Now I've got my eye on two slider remotes and I'll be all set.

Congrats! Slightly out of subject, but... I switched to Harmony remote (550) to control 6 devices including Premiere and can not imagine using anything else now
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:05 AM   #253
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Congrats! Slightly out of subject, but... I switched to Harmony remote (550) to control 6 devices including Premiere and can not imagine using anything else now
I'm a big harmony person myself. I have a Harmony 880 in the bedroom and a Harmony One in the home theater/living room.

But I have to say, I like the bluetooth/no line of sight aspect of the Slider remote and the keyboard seems great.

I'm probably going to buy one slider first for the bedroom, where line of sight to the Tivo is more of a challenge, and the harmony is really overkill (just Tivo, TV and DVD player at the moment) - slider + DVD remote will be better most of the time vs. the Harmony 880.

In the home theater, line of sight is fine, and I do love the Harmony One.

The biggest issue there is the keyboard for search text entry. I may keep the HOne and try out my Lenovo HTPC remote for text entry - I've heard that USB keyboards now work with the Premiere.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:06 PM   #254
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Thank you for the detailed account of your upgrade!
I think THD may have a problem with maximum disk size being set to 2T - that's what Supersize does. I don't recall - has it worked for anyone on THD?
I thought I had tried this and left a comment in a previous message in this thread.

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Yes, JMFS does detect the stock THD and I was able to copy and then expand to a a 2TB drive, Samsung is all I had then. That gave me 287 hrs. Then I used Winmfs and turned on supersize to max out at the 318 hr mark.
I don't have a spare 2TB drive to try this again.....

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Old 11-18-2010, 12:18 PM   #255
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Plug-n-Play is supported for WD DVR expander only. For generic ESATA tool is coming soon
What's the word on generic eSATA external drive support (non-WD My DVR Expander)? I bought two 2TB drives, and I'm itching to have a 4 TB monster TiVo. I haven't even upgraded the internal HD yet, thought I'd do it all at once.
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With the premiere, if you have an upgraded internal drive, do you still need a software hack to add an external expansion drive? Is there a thread discussing how this is done with the premiere, or is it the same procedure as the Tivi HD? I have seen comments that this has been done, but they did not elaborate.
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In short - bug-limited by Tivo. But you can do it if you are adventurous enough Read about it here and here.
Thanks, Comer, but those point right back to this thread. We know you worked really hard but no good deed goes unpunished.

There was a mention here that at least one here got 2TB + 2TB working with only the negative space bug. You're going to have to spill what worked and how to do that.

I'm thinking that for once I want to max out disk space at first bluish with my new Premiere unless the eSATA external disk add can be done later without losing recordings.

Sooo, buddy.... is it looking like the doing a single 2TB disk now with JMFS (with the minimum number of partitions?) will still allow adding an external later?

Personally I can grok calculating the sizes and start blocks and running the utilities manually if you want me to try writing some docs. Just point me at what the winning setup turned out to look like.
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Old 11-18-2010, 05:34 PM   #256
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I had hoped to report an easy success in upgrading my TiVo HD to a 2TB drive, as has been done by others, but unfortunately despite multiple attempts on my part , I can't get it to work.

Original TiVo HD 160 GB drive that has the cablecard pairings on it.
A new 2 TB WD20EARS drive purchased last week.
Latest JMFS iso image.

Copying from the old 160 GB drive to the new 2 TB took about 5 hours via eSATA. I then expanded and supersized the drive.
Installation of the 2 TB drive into the TiVo HD results in the "powering up" screen for a couple of minutes, then the "almost there" screen for about 25 seconds, then the "powering up" screen returns. Letting the TiVo sit for several hours changes nothing; still stuck on the "powering up" screen.

Pulling the power cord and waiting for 15 seconds and plugging the cord back in gives me the "powering up" screen for a couple of minutes, then the "almost there" screen for 25 seconds THEN I get a green screen with text saying "tivo has detected serious hard disk issues and will attempt to fix them. Please wait three hours". After about 10 seconds the "powering up screen re-appears. Letting the TiVo sit as long as overnight changes nothing.

I have re-imaged the 2 TB drive twice, the second time only expanding the drive, not performing the supersized function. Identical results.

Given that other people appear to have successfully created a 2 TB drive for their TiVo HDs using the JMFS iso, I'm baffled as to what I'm doing wrong.

clues, tips, advice, etc. requested
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Old 11-18-2010, 05:50 PM   #257
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Given that other people appear to have successfully created a 2 TB drive for their TiVo HDs using the JMFS iso, I'm baffled as to what I'm doing wrong.

clues, tips, advice, etc. requested
Not with Supersize they didn't. Looks like Premiere Supersize is not compatible with THD. Do not do it. Retiredqwest has just said that his success was with expanding with JMFS and Supersizing with WinMFS.
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Old 11-18-2010, 06:14 PM   #258
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There was a mention here that at least one here got 2TB + 2TB working with only the negative space bug.
You see, that's exactly why I am pointing back to the thread - it's all explained there. The word "only" here is wrong. Nobody knows or has proven that this is the "only" bug related to >2TB storage. For example, I have no idea what's going to happen when total amount of recordings go beyond 2T mark.

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You're going to have to spill what worked and how to do that.
No, I am not. I do what I do because I want to.

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is it looking like the doing a single 2TB disk now with JMFS (with the minimum number of partitions?) will still allow adding an external later?
Yes, expanding with JMFS still allows adding an external storage. However, JMFS or not, total storage is larger than 2T will result in "negative space bug". Again, it was all said in this thread already

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Personally I can grok calculating the sizes and start blocks and running the utilities manually if you want me to try writing some docs. Just point me at what the winning setup turned out to look like.
You don't need to. What you do need - is to understand that you can lose all your recordings unexpectedly due to unknown nature and extent of this bug. It's quite like drug trials - they pay you money for taking some seemingly harmless substance, but noone knows if that substance will cause cancer in 10 years. So, if you still want to experiment - PM me for instructions. I have no intentions to put that in the guide, unless I can not handle the amount of PMs
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Old 11-18-2010, 06:14 PM   #259
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Not with Supersize they didn't.
Thanks for the reply, but my second attempt was without the JMFS supersize (expansion only) and it still didn't work. And it didn't work the exact same way it didn't work when I did try the supersize option).

I'll be trying the "Retiredqwest" method tonight.
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Old 11-18-2010, 06:32 PM   #260
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Thanks for the reply, but my second attempt was without the JMFS supersize (expansion only) and it still didn't work. And it didn't work the exact same way it didn't work when I did try the supersize option).

I'll be trying the "Retiredqwest" method tonight.
Hm... that's strange. Was the old drive altered with WinMFS by any chance?
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:44 PM   #261
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Hm... that's strange. Was the old drive altered with WinMFS by any chance?
I don't think so. If memory serves correctly, about a week after purchase the cable guy did the cable card installation. I then pulled the drive the next day, backed it up to a computer via WinMFS, then copied that backup to a new 1 GB drive, expanded and supersized and put that in the TiVo.

I'm pretty sure the original 160 GB drive had no exposure to WinMFS other than performing the backup.
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:17 PM   #262
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Something to consider here.....

I used rev.68 iso for all of my testing and resultant drive that I used in my THD. And the Premiere for that matter. I used rev104 on the Premiere to supersize the 2TB to the 317 hrs HD.

Don't know if that makes a difference.
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THD 1.5TB Seagate = 237 hrs HD
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:34 PM   #263
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I had hoped to report an easy success in upgrading my TiVo HD to a 2TB drive, as has been done by others, but unfortunately despite multiple attempts on my part , I can't get it to work.

Original TiVo HD 160 GB drive that has the cablecard pairings on it.
A new 2 TB WD20EARS drive purchased last week.
Latest JMFS iso image.

Copying from the old 160 GB drive to the new 2 TB took about 5 hours via eSATA. I then expanded and supersized the drive.
Installation of the 2 TB drive into the TiVo HD results in the "powering up" screen for a couple of minutes, then the "almost there" screen for about 25 seconds, then the "powering up" screen returns. Letting the TiVo sit for several hours changes nothing; still stuck on the "powering up" screen.

Pulling the power cord and waiting for 15 seconds and plugging the cord back in gives me the "powering up" screen for a couple of minutes, then the "almost there" screen for 25 seconds THEN I get a green screen with text saying "tivo has detected serious hard disk issues and will attempt to fix them. Please wait three hours". After about 10 seconds the "powering up screen re-appears. Letting the TiVo sit as long as overnight changes nothing.

I have re-imaged the 2 TB drive twice, the second time only expanding the drive, not performing the supersized function. Identical results.

Given that other people appear to have successfully created a 2 TB drive for their TiVo HDs using the JMFS iso, I'm baffled as to what I'm doing wrong.

clues, tips, advice, etc. requested
I had to re-install the original 160GB drive and let it upgrade the software to v11.0j first, then I was able to use JMFS to copy and expand it. When I copied the original and let that update, I wasn't able to expand it. I'm still working with comer to figure out how to supersize it properly.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:22 PM   #264
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Something to consider here.....

I used rev.68 iso for all of my testing and resultant drive that I used in my THD. And the Premiere for that matter. I used rev104 on the Premiere to supersize the 2TB to the 317 hrs HD.

Don't know if that makes a difference.
Good point to consider. I'm 1/3 done with another JMFS copy from the 160GB to the 2TB. I am going to follow your steps to see if that makes a difference -- first step is putting the un-expanded and un-supersized drive into the TiVo to see if it works.

If it doesn't, I'll put the original drive back in the TiVo, force an update to the 11j, then re-image again and test. If THAT doesn't work, I'll step back to JMFS version .68 to see if that works.

I'll be reporting back tomorrow morning, but at 5 hours per re-image, it will take me all day if I have to go through all the steps. Not a problem at my end other than just wanting things to go faster.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:40 PM   #265
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For what it's worth, I'm using JMFS 1.04 for all my processing (and it's off a flash drive boot). Luckily, I've got a newer CPU to use for imaging - it takes about 2hrs to do the copy from the 160GB to the 2TB. I do notice that I have to keep it from falling asleep or it freezes up. Is there anyway to turn off power management?

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Old 11-19-2010, 02:20 AM   #266
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Success! Followed the TiVo + Comer procedure:

1. TiVo Premiere 320GB service activated
2. M-Card installed by Verizon FiOS tech
3. Installed original S4 320GB and Samsung 2TB in bays 2 & 3 of Mac Pro via SATA2
4. Booted from Comer's JMFS Live CD using option key to select boot volume
5. Used easy script to clone original 320GB drive (about 3.5 hrs over SATA2)
6. Expanded, then Supersized drive (super fast!)

And voílà! We now have a 2 TB, 317 HD hour, lifetime service TiVo Premiere for $398 (TiVo Premiere: $0; 2 TB HD: $99; PLS: $299). Thanks, Comer! You are da man!

David

P.S. My greed knows no bounds; I'm still looking forward to adding an external eSATA 2 TB drive. Will keep checking back.
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:24 AM   #267
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And voílà! We now have a 2 TB, 317 HD hour, lifetime service TiVo Premiere for $398 (TiVo Premiere: $0; 2 TB HD: $99; PLS: $299).
So, you must have the $0 Promo Premiere + $19.95/month with 2 year commitment plan?

Are you aware that after 2 years, you'll still have to pay $19.95/month, because the promo units never lose their promo designation?

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but your cost calculations don't factor in the promo *service* rate, which drives up the TCO considerably.
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:08 AM   #268
rcobourn
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Originally Posted by tcfcameron View Post
So, you must have the $0 Promo Premiere + $19.95/month with 2 year commitment plan?

Are you aware that after 2 years, you'll still have to pay $19.95/month, because the promo units never lose their promo designation?

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but your cost calculations don't factor in the promo *service* rate, which drives up the TCO considerably.
Why would he be paying a promo service rate when he has PLS?
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:45 PM   #269
tcfcameron
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Why would he be paying a promo service rate when he has PLS?
It doesn't add up. How do you obtain a "$0" Premiere that is eligible for PLS?

I'd sure like to know!

The only $0 Premieres, that I am aware of, are promotional units bought directly from TiVo, which come with the service plan I described.

Admittedly, I was up too late when I posted my query... Thus, the lack of a sentence or two that would have made it make sense...

Last edited by tcfcameron : 11-19-2010 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:58 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by tcfcameron View Post
It doesn't add up. How do you obtain a "$0" Premiere that is eligible for PLS?

I'd sure like to know!

The only $0 Premieres, that I am aware of, are promotional units bought directly from TiVo, which come with the service plan I described.

Admittedly, I was up too late when I posted my query... Thus, the lack of a sentence or two that would have made it make sense...
That is a good one, what place has a TiVos for $0 beside TiVo itself, unless he had a $100 Best Buy (or another store) gift certificate.
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