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Old 09-22-2010, 08:23 PM   #6571
TiVo Bob W
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So based on your signature you have an un-modded/stock TiVo Series3 and a "non-approved" eSATA drive connected to it correct? If non-approved, did you use Kickstart 62 to connect the eSATA drive or did you connect it after the TiVo update that allowed plug and play expansion?
eSATA drive was connect through P & P after TiVo allowed other eDrives. I thought I had researched this enough before I purchased the new drives. I guess not.

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Old 09-22-2010, 08:32 PM   #6572
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eSATA drive was connect through P & P after TiVo allowed other eDrives. I thought I had researched this enough before I purchased the new drives. I guess not.

Bob
I can see how that could happen very easily. I agree there needs to be some additional clarification.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:58 AM   #6573
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Is there a place where backups for dummies FAQ might be located?

I'm a new TiVo owner, backups of image files and season passes seems like a good idea, but I haven't stumbled across directions for beginners. Just references to how to backup as part of an upgrade.

Can someone point me in the direction of a backup FAQ for newbies (not part of upgrading)?


Also, I wish this sticky was an actual forum! So much great info in here, but at over 6k posts, it's not easy to just read through. It'd be so awesome if the sticky was a forum with threads for searching.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:19 PM   #6574
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Is there a place where backups for dummies FAQ might be located?

I'm a new TiVo owner, backups of image files and season passes seems like a good idea, but I haven't stumbled across directions for beginners. Just references to how to backup as part of an upgrade.

Can someone point me in the direction of a backup FAQ for newbies (not part of upgrading)?


Also, I wish this sticky was an actual forum! So much great info in here, but at over 6k posts, it's not easy to just read through. It'd be so awesome if the sticky was a forum with threads for searching.
Welcome! Without pulling the hard drive out of TiVo and connecting it to a computer there isn't a way to backup the image file.

You can "preserve" your Season Passes by signing up for TiVo's Guru Guides or KidZone. Should you replace/upgrade your hard drive they will be repopulated when TiVo connects to the "Mother Ship". More here:

http://www.tivo.com/findtvshows/guides/

BTW this is the forum for discussions about upgrades and expansions, hence the high number of posts. If you're interested in upgrading, everything you need to know is in the very first post. Everything else is simply discussions about details so there's no real need to slog through them all…certainly some are way outdated by now. If you run into any issues or have further questions just ask. There are a lot of great folks here willing to lend a hand anytime.

FWIW you can use the Search feature in the Forum's toolbar above to do a global search or click on "Search this thread" at the top of any thread to look for something specific within that thread.

Enjoy your new TiVo!

Last edited by richsadams : 09-23-2010 at 12:42 PM. Reason: Add absolute URL link for new member
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:28 PM   #6575
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Welcome! Without pulling the hard drive out of TiVo and connecting it to a computer there isn't a way to backup the image file.

...
Ahhhh! No wonder there's no backups for dummies FAQ then! I did see the instructions that included pulling the drive out, I didn't realize that was the only way.

Thankyou for all the rest of the info too.
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:05 PM   #6576
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1tb Wd10ears $55

The popular 1TB WD10EARS is on sale at Dell for $54.99 w/free shipping…

http://dell.to/aHn6sF

FWIW the 2TB model is also on sale for $94.99 w/free shipping…

http://dell.to/bmW3pA
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:56 PM   #6577
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Will the WD Caviar Blue work?
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:30 PM   #6578
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Will the WD Caviar Blue work?
It will work, but unless you already own it there wouldn't really be any advantage (at least in a TiVo application) over the WD GP drive. If this is the one you're talking about it's a 7200 RPM drive that runs a bit hotter and is noisier than the WD GP drives…costs more than the one on sale at Dell too. The only advantage might be that it doesn't have the Intellipark feature so there'd be no need to tweak it. I say "might" because the newer WD GP drives (post August 1 or so) no longer have to have the Intellipark feature tweaked.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:41 PM   #6579
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The popular 1TB WD10EARS is on sale at Dell for $54.99 w/free shipping…
The WD10EARS isn't on your recommended list on the first page. Will this drive work for my TivoHD?
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:16 PM   #6580
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The WD10EARS isn't on your recommended list on the first page. Will this drive work for my TivoHD?
Yes, a lot of folks are using it successfully here. The reason the WD GP drives aren't currently listed on the FAQ is due to a manufacturing issue wherein the drive's proprietary Intellipark feature caused TiVo to hang at the "Welcome! Powering up…" screen during a soft reboot (either a menu restart or after a TiVo update). If you read the FAQ you'll note that the drives needed to have Intellipark timeout extended or disabled to avoid the problem, otherwise they worked normally.

More recently manufactured WD GP drives including the WD10EARS no longer require the Intellipark adjustment to be made; generally it appears those drives manufactured after the first week in August this year or so. That said, it's difficult to say what the drive's manufacture date might be if ordered from Dell or anywhere else. Until all of the older WD GP drives (that required the adjustment) are flushed through the system they shouldn't be included in the recommended drive list.

The adjustment isn't difficult to do but does require a direct SATA connection (either on the computer's motherboard or using a SATA PCI card) as it won't work with a USB/SATA adapter or dock. More info about that is included in the FAQ.

So long story longer, it's a roll of the dice finding out if the drive would need a little extra work to avoid the soft reboot issue or not. Otherwise, they work fine for TiVo upgrades.

For anyone not wanting to wait or fool around with the possible Intellipark adjustment, the Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K is a good alternative:

http://bit.ly/5QD8FS
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:00 PM   #6581
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More recently manufactured WD GP drives including the WD10EARS no longer require the Intellipark adjustment to be made; generally it appears those drives manufactured after the first week in August this year or so. That said, it's difficult to say what the drive's manufacture date might be if ordered from Dell or anywhere else. Until all of the older WD GP drives (that required the adjustment) are flushed through the system they shouldn't be included in the recommended drive list.
http://bit.ly/5QD8FS
If I order the WD10EARS is the manufacture date shown somewhere on the drive so I could return it if it is part of the older batch?
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:39 PM   #6582
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I've always used the Linux command line versions of the MFS tools.

Will I be able to create a backup image for an TCD652160 (HD TiVo)? It's the original drive, never booted.

I'm trying one now, but my notes from last time say the backup always fails at 86% or so, which is where the file reaches 2GB.

Command:

backup -6so TCD652160.bak -f9999 /dev/sda


CONFIRMED: Still doing this today. Using:
MFSLive 1.4
Kernel: 2.6.282Mfslive.org
file size at error: 2147483647 (exactly one byte over 2G)

Happens at 86%, at 3007 of 3463MB.

Last edited by ThreeSoFar : 09-23-2010 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:00 AM   #6583
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I've always used the Linux command line versions of the MFS tools.

Will I be able to create a backup image for an TCD652160 (HD TiVo)? It's the original drive, never booted.

I'm trying one now, but my notes from last time say the backup always fails at 86% or so, which is where the file reaches 2GB.

Command:

backup -6so TCD652160.bak -f9999 /dev/sda


CONFIRMED: Still doing this today. Using:
MFSLive 1.4
Kernel: 2.6.282Mfslive.org
file size at error: 2147483647 (exactly one byte over 2G)

Happens at 86%, at 3007 of 3463MB.
I used WinMFS to make a backup of THD, tcd652, and the size was 440 megs, with only 1 show left in the recently deleted folder, original drive, and ver 11.0h. Plus, I burned the backup onto a CD, if anything happens to the drive, I still got a backup. Time it took to backup, for me that is, was just about 1 min.

Do you have alot of recordings on that Tivo drive? Does 'Never booted' means you have a brand new box?
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:37 AM   #6584
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If I order the WD10EARS is the manufacture date shown somewhere on the drive so I could return it if it is part of the older batch?


I think you'd need a better excuse for returning it than "It's from an older batch" though. Most suppliers charge a restocking fee (around 15%) unless a drive is DOA.

IIRC some folks have been finding fairly new drives at Best Buy and Fry's so it might be worth a look locally. You could probably open the box and read the date through the anti-static envelope.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:39 AM   #6585
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I used WinMFS to make a backup of THD, tcd652, and the size was 440 megs, with only 1 show left in the recently deleted folder, original drive, and ver 11.0h. Plus, I burned the backup onto a CD, if anything happens to the drive, I still got a backup. Time it took to backup, for me that is, was just about 1 min.

Do you have alot of recordings on that Tivo drive? Does 'Never booted' means you have a brand new box?
I removed it before powering it up the first time, used it to make my 1TB drive via backup ... | restore. It should be the pristine factory build on there.

I tried again with -f 8888 and the initial MB count was the same 3463, so I aborted that one. WIthout the -f option entirely, it works fine and finishes at about 500M. I'm trying -f6888 now and the MB count looks low enough that it should be below that 2G mark.

Is there some 2G cutoff for file sizes with this mfslive CD?
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:00 PM   #6586
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I think you'd need a better excuse for returning it than "It's from an older batch" though. Most suppliers charge a restocking fee (around 15%) unless a drive is DOA.

IIRC some folks have been finding fairly new drives at Best Buy and Fry's so it might be worth a look locally. You could probably open the box and read the date through the anti-static envelope.
No Fry's or BB locally so I think I will order from Amazon since their return policy is very liberal. $59.99 and free shipping since I have Prime.
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:01 PM   #6587
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No Fry's or BB locally so I think I will order from Amazon since their return policy is very liberal. $59.99 and free shipping since I have Prime.
Sounds good. Let us know what turns up!
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Old 09-24-2010, 02:18 PM   #6588
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It will work, but unless you already own it there wouldn't really be any advantage (at least in a TiVo application) over the WD GP drive. If this is the one you're talking about it's a 7200 RPM drive that runs a bit hotter and is noisier than the WD GP drives…costs more than the one on sale at Dell too. The only advantage might be that it doesn't have the Intellipark feature so there'd be no need to tweak it. I say "might" because the newer WD GP drives (post August 1 or so) no longer have to have the Intellipark feature tweaked.
Don't know why people are looking at non AV hard drives in the first place, I'd think common sense would be to use a drive thats specifically made for DVR usage. http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=7
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:21 PM   #6589
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Just ordered and received a WD10EVDS from Amazon fro my TivoHD. Manufacture date is April 26 2010. I assume I will have to run widdle?
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:23 PM   #6590
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Just ordered and received a WD10EVDS from Amazon fro my TivoHD. Manufacture date is April 26 2010. I assume I will have to run widdle?
Probably…but you never know. Might be worth trying w/o it and see what happens. I know it's a big ask and another step if it doesn't work, but for purely selfish reasons I for one would like to know…plus the additional data point will be beneficial to those that follow. But if you don't want to help your fellow TCF members…that's okay…don't worry about us…we'll be fine.
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:33 PM   #6591
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Don't know why people are looking at non AV hard drives in the first place, I'd think common sense would be to use a drive thats specifically made for DVR usage. http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=7
As explained earlier most folks are successfully using non-AV, low RPM hard drives simply because TiVo can't take advantage of a majority of the AV dedicated features the manufacturers build in…and AV drives cost more…about 20 to 30% more depending on the drive.

After years of upgrading TiVo's with both types there's no empirical evidence one is better than the other, other than acoustics…the AV dedicated drives are delivered with the AAM set to 128. A few minutes work using a simple program will allow anyone to adjust the acoustics on a "stock" drive (from most manufacturers with the exception of Seagate) to the same.

Ease of use? Agreed, pay some more, get an A/V dedicated drive and there's one less step in the upgrade process.
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:59 PM   #6592
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As explained earlier most folks are successfully using non-AV, low RPM hard drives simply because TiVo can't take advantage of a majority of the AV dedicated features the manufacturers build in…and AV drives cost more…about 20 to 30% more depending on the drive.

After years of upgrading TiVo's with both types there's no empirical evidence one is better than the other, other than acoustics…the AV dedicated drives are delivered with the AAM set to 128. A few minutes work using a simple program will allow anyone to adjust the acoustics on a "stock" drive (from most manufacturers with the exception of Seagate) to the same.

Ease of use? Agreed, pay some more, get an A/V dedicated drive and there's one less step in the upgrade process.
What do you mean TiVo can't take advantage of the AV features? What features, and why not?
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:07 PM   #6593
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What do you mean TiVo can't take advantage of the AV features? What features, and why not?
AV-specific features in the firmware allow such things as reads without error recovery; since a given read is known to be video data, it's more important to not hold up the read than it is to try to re-read the data over and over to get a good read (if it ever happens).

TiVo simply does not need or utilize any of these extra features that exist in AV drive firmware.

Though frankly it'd be nice if they could use it if it existed; it's certainly more user-friendly to see some garbled data now and then as a hard drive fails than it is to watch the TiVo lock up and reboot.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:56 PM   #6594
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TiVo simply does not need or utilize any of these extra features that exist in AV drive firmware.

Though frankly it'd be nice if they could use it if it existed; it's certainly more user-friendly to see some garbled data now and then as a hard drive fails than it is to watch the TiVo lock up and reboot.
That, of course is a shame. The problem is, of course, that the drive can indicate an error, but it is up to the host software (windows, Linux, TIVO, or IBM MVS) to decide what to do about the "error". In the case of Computer data like your checking account data, it better be correct. However, the problem with TIVO is that it is OK to just skip a bad sector while playing a show that was recorded. Heck, you would think it is the cable company anyway ! But the lockup is NOT OK. I am surprised that TiVo did not make its OS better than that! It is too bad that TIVO did not include software (a KS XX) that could be run to copy the "bad" show to another location without the bad sector and then have a hidden directory of bad sectors. That way, that sector(s) would never be used again. They could even have a KS to scan the whole drive and mark bad sectors. I bet a whole lot of TiVo's would be saved that way! How many times have we seen people come here to replace their HDD because all is OK except if they try to play a show they had recorded (or is that taped) everything would freeze!
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:38 PM   #6595
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It is too bad that TIVO did not include software (a KS XX) that could be run to copy the "bad" show to another location without the bad sector and then have a hidden directory of bad sectors. That way, that sector(s) would never be used again. They could even have a KS to scan the whole drive and mark bad sectors.
Actually if I'm reading what you're suggesting right (and it's been a long week, so some slack may be in order) Kickstart 57/MFS assert does in fact mark and isolate bad sectors along with its other tasks. It would be great if it handled the other things you suggest though.

Enjoying the sun?
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:49 PM   #6596
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Does anyone actually know the exact hard drive used in the TiVo S3/HD and S3/HD XL? By which I mean model number and brand?
I have deleted my original response since Rich has done a far better job then I could have here:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sho...d.php?t=455680


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Old 09-24-2010, 07:11 PM   #6597
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Does anyone actually know the exact hard drive used in the TiVo S3/HD and S3/HD XL? By which I mean model number and brand?
These were all within minutes of each other:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...46#post8151646

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...43#post8151643

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...26#post8151626

Cross posting - posting the same questions on multiple threads is frowned upon by the TCF Moderators and is just bad form. I and others took the time to answer your posts, but in the future it's best to post once, wait for an answer. New folks get a pass.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:27 PM   #6598
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Actually if I'm reading what you're suggesting right (and it's been a long week, so some slack may be in order) Kickstart 57/MFS assert does in fact mark and isolate bad sectors along with its other tasks. It would be great if it handled the other things you suggest though.

Enjoying the sun?
Well, we just got back from Westfir/Oakridge and Silverton. I tell you, besides the darn rain it was scary in Oakridge before they shot that guy...near where we were staying in our RV, too! Police were all over!!

P.S. There are so many levels that could be done in the TIVO OS.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:53 PM   #6599
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Well, we just got back from Westfir/Oakridge and Silverton. I tell you, besides the darn rain it was scary in Oakridge before they shot that guy...near where we were staying in our RV, too! Police were all over!!

P.S. There are so many levels that could be done in the TIVO OS.
Yikes! And agreed…I mean about TiVo…not shooting people that is.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:05 PM   #6600
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Yikes! And agreed…I mean about TiVo…not shooting people that is.
So I guess this was on the Portland news!

Anyway, I guess it is time for my next 90 day free HBO/Cinemax. It is there now!
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