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Old 06-25-2010, 03:43 PM   #1
Stormspace
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Copy Protection Tracking Thread

Thought I'd start a thread where we could go to check cable companies in various areas. I'll start and keep this post updated as others chime in.

Copy Protection generally includes 0x02 which prevents transfer via MRV and TTG. The CCI Byte 0x02 is either on or off in the context of this thread. If you have any channels that prevent recording altogether, or your area is clear of any protection let us know that as well.

Comcast
0x03 - One report of Comcast applying 0x03 protection on the Playboy channel as they've apparently classed it as pay per view. According to the report, the decision to do this is a Comcast corporate policy.

Time Warner Cable
All reporting areas indicate that TWC is applying 0x02 to all channels except locals.

Code:
Cable System          0x00 0x02 0x03 0x04          Channels
Code:
Arizona
Cox,  Phoenix               on                     All digital 
                                                    except locals
Cox, Tuson                  on                     All digital 
                                                    except locals
Code:
California
Comcast, Bay Area           on                     Premium Only
TWC, Torrance               on                     All but locals
Code:
Florida
BHN,  Tampa                 on                     All but locals
Code:
Georgia
Comcast, Atlanta            on                     Premium Only
Charter, Gwinnett           on                     BBCA, TMC, All Encore,
                                                    Showtime Showcase
Code:
Illinois
Comcast, Naperville         on                     Premium Only
Code:
Kansas
TWC, Kansas City            on                     All But Locals
Code:
Kentucky
Insight Cable, Lexington    on                     All But Locals
Code:
Louisiana
??, New Orleans             on                     Some Premium
Code:
Maine
TWC                         on                     All but locals
Code:
Maryland
Comcast, College Park       on                     Unknown
Code:
Massachusetts
RCN, Boston                 on                     Premium Only
Code:
Michigan
Detroit                     on                     Premium Only
WideOpenWest, Detroit  on                          All
Code:
Missouri
TWC, Kansas City            on                     All But Locals
Code:
New Hampshire
TWC, Northern NH            on                     All but locals
Code:
New Jersey
Comcast, Central NJ         on                     Premium Only
Verizon FIOS, Freehold
       /Basking Ridge  on                          All
Code:
New York
CV, Brookhaven              on                     All channels in the 
                                                    IO package and above
TWC,NYC Brooklyn/Queens     on                     All but local
Code:
North Carolina
TWC, Raleigh                on                     All but local
Code:
Oklahoma
Cox, Tulsa                  on                     HBO, Cinemax, and 
                                                    Showtime groups
Code:
Ohio
TWC, SW                     on                     All but locals
Code:
Oregon
Frontier FIOS               on                     All but locals
Comcast, Beaverton          on                     Premium Only
Code:
Pennsylvania
Verizon FiOS SE        on                          All
Code:
South Carolina
TWC, Columbia               on                     All but locals
Code:
Tennessee
Comcast, Nashville          on                     HBO, Starz, Cinemax
                       on                          All Others
Code:
Texas
SuddenLink, Amarillo        on                     Premium Only
TWC, Austin                 on                     All but locals
TWC, Dallas                 on                     All but locals
Comcast, Houston            on                     Premium only
TWC, Waco/Killeen           on                     All but locals
Code:
Virginia
Comcast, Alexandria         off                    All but HBO, MAX, SHO
Cox, N. Va                  on                     All But Locals, 
                                                    one exception
Verizon FiOS, N. Va.        on  	           Premium Only
Verizon FiOS, N. Va.        off*                   All
Verizon FiOS, Woodbridge    off*                   All
Code:
Washington, DC
RCN                              on                0x03 On NBA League Pass
Code:
Washington
Frontier, Redmond           on                     ???
Code:
Wisconsin
TWC, Milwaukee              on                     All, Possibly 
                                                    Locals(Not Confirmed)

*2 Conflicting reports - one from Woodbridge, the other an unknown location

Other Codes
0x00 - Copy Freely
0x01 - Same as 0x02 on TiVo equipment
0x03 - Copy Never - the content can be recorded and viewed for 90 minutes after transmission, and is not transferrable. Content disappears from the Now Playing list after 90 minutes.

Additional CCI values put restrictions on both digital and analog content:

0x04 - Content is Copy Once for digital output, but would have Macrovision 7 Day Unlimited restriction applied on the analog outputs. This affects content viewed either on an HDTV with component cabling or on a standard definition TV. It also affects content saved to VCR or DVD when the recorder is connected to an analog output on the TiVo box.
0x07 - Content is Copy Never for digital content (deleted after 90 minutes) and Macrovision 7 day/24 hour for content recorded from analog channels. Content cannot be transferred via TiVoToGo transfers or MRV, and cannot be saved to VCR or DVD.
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Last edited by Stormspace : 07-02-2012 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:05 PM   #2
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I'll play the game: TWC SW OH (Cincinnati and Dayton) is copy protected on all but locals.

It would make more sense to just track the areas where TWC does NOT copy protect, if there are any.
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:32 PM   #3
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I think you're going to find that ALL TWC franchises do the same thing, because of a corporate decision made at TWC HQ.

For what it's worth, I read this morning that while Verizon FIOS subscribers are still not "protected," the Verizon FIOS customers who were spun off to Frontier were immediately protected from themselves with the same scheme that TWC uses.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:26 PM   #4
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Cox Communications, Phoenix AZ, All digital except local broadcast set to CCI=2
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:17 PM   #5
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Its so rampant Im afraid to post. The bad people will read it and protect me from myself. LoL
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vurbano View Post
Its so rampant Im afraid to post.
yeah, i have a feeling a large percent of digital TiVo subscribers are suffering as i am (Cox, Northern Virginia, locals are clear and one premium they overlooked)
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:15 PM   #7
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Hey Dave--I'm sure if you tell us which premium, we can get it locked up really fast!
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:47 PM   #8
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I only have a couple of data points, but I am seeing something slightly different this week.. a few(*) of my recordings on ABC have Macrovision protection turned on (or at least they're triggering copy protection on my XS32 hard drive/dvd recorder)... But the programs are not copy protected (i.e. preventing MRV) as far as the Tivo is concerned.

That's slightly a pain, since I like to dub things fairly often to just watch on my other recorder faster than realtime with sound (and usually leave captions on -- so they get 'burned' into the recording too, another sign I'm not trying to do this to record something for keeps)... My "workaround" will likely be recording more things natively on that recorder.. But it's still a pain.

and these are news & game shows, not something typically cared about regarding DRM. (The other times I've seen this happen is often in the middle of a show -- e.g. a movie clip in a talk show triggers it, and often doesn't go back off for the rest of the show.)



(*) Maybe all of them do, but I've only tried dubbing a few.
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Old 06-26-2010, 08:44 AM   #9
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Cable System CCI 0x02 on/off Channels
BHN - Tampa, FL On All but locals

FiOS installation is scheduled for today. I know what I expect from them, but will post once I confirm on my systems.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:48 PM   #10
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Cox New Orleans

I checked several chanels in NO and found:
The Locals DRM 0x00
HBO " 0x02
TBS " 0x00
Turner Classic " 0x01
AMC " 0x01

So, most of the cable ch's are open.
But movie chanels, not so much. I'm not using cable cards, so this doesn't affect me that much. If I want to copy a didigetal chanel, I use the analog ch 3 output from the cable box and copying it into TIVO.


Don H.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:04 AM   #11
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Comcast Houston

All clear except premium channels.
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Old 06-27-2010, 10:30 AM   #12
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Comcast Atlanta

All clear except premium channels, Encore channels, Movieplex, and Flix.
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:22 PM   #13
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TW Austin: All but locals :-(
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:01 PM   #14
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When saying 'Copy protected" does that mean able to record, but unable to transfer to another device?

I sure hope so, because it is my understanding there is a bit that can be flipped to, more-or-less, disable a TiVo from recording anything from a single show to an entire channel.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nrnoble View Post
When saying 'Copy protected" does that mean able to record, but unable to transfer to another device?
In most cases yes. So far we've only seen Copy Protection that limited recording only happen on PPV channels, or was implemented by mistake. If someone is on a system that uses the CCI 0x03 on some channels let us know and I'll note it in the first post.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:27 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
I'll play the game: TWC SW OH (Cincinnati and Dayton) is copy protected on all but locals.

It would make more sense to just track the areas where TWC does NOT copy protect, if there are any.
That's a good point. We should probably list areas that are clear as well.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:08 AM   #17
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Comcast Nashville: The only channels I've seen protected are HBO, Starz and Cinemax. I'm surprised but Showtime isn't. For awhile Tru-TV and National Geographic were, but then Comcast released them.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:20 AM   #18
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Cablevision in Brookhaven, New York has 0x02 set for all channels in the IO package and above.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:18 PM   #19
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comcast
central NJ II
only premium movie channels flagged
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:58 PM   #20
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RCN Boston -- only the premiums are protected
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:55 PM   #21
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Verizon FiOS - SE PA
All channels - CCI:0X00
Cablecards - CopyProtectionKey: Disabled

When will the returns be in for Verizon/Frontier FiOS states besides WA & OR?
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:25 PM   #22
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Looks like we have 13 states reporting. Any others?
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:18 PM   #23
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RCN Boston -- only the premiums are protected
Are you sure about that? When I had to go through my channel list deselecting all the shopping channels, spanish channels, etc. after they all got re-selected when I had to re-run Guided Setup after the RCN lineup change, I could have sworn there were are a couple of RCN Premiere channels (i.e. not premium channels) that had a CCI of 0x02 (and that I got a grey screen on because my CableCARD isn't paired). I'll have to re-check that....
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Old 07-01-2010, 12:20 AM   #24
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Comcast Detroit:
Premium only, everything else is copy freely and I hope it stays this way for a long time.
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:21 PM   #25
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Bay Area, CA Comcast.. premium only (HBO).. except what I mentioned above -- at least some LOCAL channels seem to have the Macrovision part set, but not the main copy protection set.

So I wonder if I can somehow tell Comcast about this. Can the digital channels just have the Macrovision part set, or is this possibly my hard drive/DVD recorder misinterpreting something? (Seems unlikely since it's several shows, just on ABC.)

Also, this seems to me like it violates the "can't set copy protection on local channels".
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:51 AM   #26
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Time Warner out of Maine with service to NH too, so Maine & Northern NH.

All copy protected except locals.
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:08 PM   #27
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Bay Area, CA Comcast.. premium only (HBO).. except what I mentioned above -- at least some LOCAL channels seem to have the Macrovision part set, but not the main copy protection set.

So I wonder if I can somehow tell Comcast about this. Can the digital channels just have the Macrovision part set, or is this possibly my hard drive/DVD recorder misinterpreting something? (Seems unlikely since it's several shows, just on ABC.)

Also, this seems to me like it violates the "can't set copy protection on local channels".

yes the CCI Byte has multiple settings. It can also enable macrovision on analog outputs.

You wont see 0x01, 0x02, or 0x03, but rather some other value.
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:13 PM   #28
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Oh, you mean I can check this on my recording? How do I check it?

and again, this seems to violate the 'no copy protection on broadcast-originating networks' idea.
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:26 PM   #29
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Fios Tampa currently is in the clear, but expected to change eventually.

Also it might be better if this was moved to the Coffee House or if possible made as a sticky in both series 3 and Premiere. Not sure if you can have one thread in both forums though.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:03 PM   #30
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Oh, you mean I can check this on my recording? How do I check it?

and again, this seems to violate the 'no copy protection on broadcast-originating networks' idea.

I'm not sure if the broadcast people are permited to add macrovision (analog flags) to be honest- never mattered to me so i haven't bothered to learn.

to check the flags tune to the channels in question and then go into the tivo's diagnostic screens (someplace in the menus- sorry can't be more specific- dont have it in front of me).

there's a value for CCI Byte. If it's anything other than 0x00 then there is some sort of flag applied.

0x02 is only one digital copy - allowed on anything on thats not broadcast local. 0x03 is a time restricted copy that self destructs (in 90 minutes off the top of my head)- only allowed on ppv and vod.

other values include macrovision flags, image constraint flags (meaning they degrade the picture on non digitally encrypted outputs- which i believe was only recently approved for ppv/vod of currently in theater movies). Also they can make any combination of the above flags with the byte. If you dig through the cable labs website you can find the exact rules with all the possible values
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