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Old 04-30-2010, 08:50 PM   #2281
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Can anyone tell me why I might want to use Video Redo over Handbrake? I am looking to create good quality video that is playable on my ipad.
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:34 PM   #2282
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You can use either one or even ff_mpeg for the encoding, however, video redo is the only one that does the quick stream fix, and that seems to be necessary for most of us.

For the encoding, I'm not sure how much difference there is. In fact, I suspect they are all using the same h.264 library, but vdrd has the best GUI. Also the new version of tv suite 4, allows us to combine/skip a step or two.

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Old 04-30-2010, 11:28 PM   #2283
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speaking of the ipad, since I finally have mine in house for a few hours now ...

getting back to my encoding questions, I played with several encoding options, including the tv suite 4 ipad and ff-ipad profiles (and modifications of them). This is very unscientific, I only used a single 1080i HDTV input file as source material so far.

1. tv suite 4 ipad profile. Profile is 1280x720 (720p) dual pass. Takes about 2x - 3x than a single pass encode, result is very good. Encode times are very slow at 720p. This method was painfully slow for me. It literally took 3 - 4 hours to encode 40+ minutes of a cut hour of a TV episode.

2. tv suite 4 modified ipad profile to 720p single pass. Result looks very good, however, for some reason, itunes wouldn't transfer my one sample of this to the ipad (said it was not playable on the ipad, though it should have been, all I did was copy the ipad profile and change the dual pass to single pass in the profile.) I am probably not going to bother to test this again, as encoding even single pass 720p in tvs4 is very slow for me, though not nearly as bad as the dual pass option.

3. ff-mpeg, ipad profile, 720p, single pass. Much faster encoding, very good output on the ipad

4. ff-mpeg modified ipad profile, modified to 1024x576, which is native rez for 16:9 material on the ipad. Fastest encoding, output looks good.

All files were playable in itunes (quicktime player, basically) and windows media player on my system. WMP was much better than the itunes/quicktime player, which displayed visibly jerky output on my mobile P8400 c2d-based machine.

All of the transcoded output looked really good, so I'm going for encoding time, as I have no plans or need for the 720p output from the ipad itself.

I also played with Breaking Bad from AMC a bit. On my cable system, there is no hi-def version of AMC, so all I seem to get is analog, standard def. 640x480 was fine.

I had a copy of an older CSI:NY episode in itunes that I had converted for my ipod touch/iphone. info said the file was encoded at 566x320, 157kbs, 922kbs total bit rate. You could see visible artifacts, etc, but it was definitely watchable. It looked decent, but not as good as it could.

Added: There's not a huge difference in file sizes in all of the output formats I was playing with.

-David

Last edited by Icarus : 04-30-2010 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:57 AM   #2284
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3. ff-mpeg, ipad profile, 720p, single pass. Much faster encoding, very good output on the ipad
Thanks for the feedback David. So I take it then you can confirm the ff_ipad profile I created works fine then right?
TVS4 is a nice all in 1 solution but if you want more control then the free public encoders are still a better way to go. Hopefully eventually more encoder options will be added to TVS4. Still very useful to have VRD for QS Fix & Ad Cut tasks of course.
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:43 AM   #2285
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Thanks for the feedback David. So I take it then you can confirm the ff_ipad profile I created works fine then right?
yes, that's what I used, and I piggybacked off that to copy/create the ff-ipad-1024x576 profile as well. I didn't invent anything.

Quote:
TVS4 is a nice all in 1 solution but if you want more control then the free public encoders are still a better way to go. Hopefully eventually more encoder options will be added to TVS4. Still very useful to have VRD for QS Fix & Ad Cut tasks of course.
Absolutely agree and it's still needed for the qs fix. One day maybe there will be an open source alternative for the qs fix, but not yet.

I also know that the vdrd people will play with and refine their profiles for the ipad and try to make them more efficient also. Like the rest of us, they probably just got there ipads also.


As a side note to you, kmttg continues to amaze me. I didn't realize it would just do the ap job if I had the right files there, and just unchecked everything except the encode job, using the profile of my choice, and it just does the right thing. Your tool is incredibly powerful for doing this type of repeated encoding/testing, if you pre-select the correct options for not deleting the input files, and it's smart enough to pick up in the middle of a "job". Thanks again.

-David

Last edited by Icarus : 05-01-2010 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:19 AM   #2286
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Orangeboy, thanks for your bat file solution to the log issue. It looks well thought out and I'll have to give it a try if kmttg doesn't implement something similar soon.
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:40 AM   #2287
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
You can use either one or even ff_mpeg for the encoding, however, video redo is the only one that does the quick stream fix, and that seems to be necessary for most of us.

-David


What is quick stream fix? Is this a problem I don't know I have?
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:44 AM   #2288
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What is quick stream fix? Is this a problem I don't know I have?
VideoRedo's Quickstream fix (QSfix) eliminates the stream errors in the download that cause audio sync problems when re-encoding to other formats. In effect, it eliminates out-of-sync audio.

If you have VideoRedo installed, kmttg integrates that feature with the QSFix option.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:10 AM   #2289
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VideoRedo's Quickstream fix (QSfix) eliminates the stream errors in the download that cause audio sync problems when re-encoding to other formats. In effect, it eliminates out-of-sync audio.

If you have VideoRedo installed, kmttg integrates that feature with the QSFix option.
I haven't seen sync issues, I do have an occasional sound hiccup.

I am getting frustrated with handbrake, the encodes seem to take a lot longer then ffmpeg. I am using the handbrake universal profile which provides pretty good playback on appletv and ipod.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:15 AM   #2290
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Orangeboy, thanks for your bat file solution to the log issue. It looks well thought out and I'll have to give it a try if kmttg doesn't implement something similar soon.
I have some related code checked into SVN for next release already that allows a user to specify a size limit for auto.log file. Specifically now kmttg logs to auto.log.0 and once user specified limit is reached (defaults to 10MB) then contents are copied to auto.log.1 file and auto.log.0 is emptied out. i.e. auto.log.0 stays below some file limit and auto.log.1 has a copy of older log entries.
This is implemented using an existing built in Java logging mechanism to do what I described automatically. If you want to try it out you can grab test version of kmttg.jar from here. NOTE: That version also has a new "Loop in GUI" feature to run Auto Transfers in GUI mode as an alternative to service/background mode only, a feature also planned to be in next release.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:08 PM   #2291
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> That version also has a new "Loop in GUI" feature to run Auto Transfers in GUI mode as an alternative to service/background mode only, a feature also planned to be in next release. <

Very cool. I'll be looking forward to that.
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Old 05-02-2010, 02:48 PM   #2292
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I just got an idea for a suggestion on adding a feature to kmttg. How about the ability to drag and drop current jobs around to re-order the jobs list, or even to drag titles from the playlist to the jobs. Is this even possible?

Edit: How about an estimated time for completion as well?
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Old 05-02-2010, 08:21 PM   #2293
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Changing job order is non-trivial. You can always remove queued jobs and queue up new ones though.
Personally I dislike estimated completion times as they are inherently inaccurate. Take downloads for example: the TiVo web server rates can fluctuate quite wildly and the size of a show reported by TiVo is not the final size that ends up on your computer which is always smaller but not by a known amount. I remember laughing at TiVo Desktop estimates of download times.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:59 AM   #2294
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I am getting frustrated with handbrake, the encodes seem to take a lot longer then ffmpeg. I am using the handbrake universal profile which provides pretty good playback on appletv and ipod.
Likely you are dealing with different encoding options between ffmpeg and handbrake. They both use x264 as their h.264 encoding engine. Depending on which version of ffmpeg you are using, you may also be using a more up-to-date version of x264. The speed might be slightly faster on newer code (maybe ~5%), but that is unlikely the source if you are seeing very noticeable differences in encode time. If you are using handbrake 0.9.3, then that is very old x264 code (without mb-tree, etc). I think the main benefit going to handbrake 0.9.4 will probably be final encode size rather than encode time.

If you are happy with the output from ffmpeg and prefer the speed, then you are fine using that. The main benefit of all of the various bells and whistles with x264 is to allow for extreme bitrate compression with good quality. If you are willing to increase the bitrate, then many of those options can be turned off to sacrifice compression efficiency for speed.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:28 PM   #2295
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As long as folks are throwing ideas out there, I thought I's throw my own two cents in (I hope you don't mind moyekj).

It would be great if we could choose two encoding methods for a show (add two encodes to the queue). I often start a show on my TV and end the viewing on my iphone (or visa - versa). To do this and and view it in the best quality for each device I create to versions of the show. There are multiple ways to do this, but none completely straight forward.

I can't comment about the under the hood stuff. However, it seems you could have a second encoding profile box with and option for none. If a second profile is chosen then add a second encode to the queue and perhaps append "2" to the second file.

I hope you like the idea, I've always wanted to put it out there.

Thanks for all that kmttg is.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:28 PM   #2296
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As long as folks are throwing ideas out there, I thought I's throw my own two cents in (I hope you don't mind moyekj).

It would be great if we could choose two encoding methods for a show (add two encodes to the queue). I often start a show on my TV and end the viewing on my iphone (or visa - versa). To do this and and view it in the best quality for each device I create to versions of the show. There are multiple ways to do this, but none completely straight forward.

I can't comment about the under the hood stuff. However, it seems you could have a second encoding profile box with and option for none. If a second profile is chosen then add a second encode to the queue and perhaps append "2" to the second file.

I hope you like the idea, I've always wanted to put it out there.

Thanks for all that kmttg is.
Not to detract from your suggestion, but do you currently have a custom command enabled? You may be able to leverage a second encoding phase by calling ffmpeg in a script that also contains your encoding profile, passing the [mpegFile_cut] (or whatever file you want to encode) as it's input.
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:20 AM   #2297
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re: multiple encode profiles

If you download the files first and accessing from the Files.. tab, I think you could do more than one profile there.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:16 PM   #2298
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I like to add to my last post;

under Files:

It would be nice to be able to browse folders instead of having to add files every time we start kmttg.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:40 PM   #2299
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You can use either one or even ff_mpeg for the encoding, however, video redo is the only one that does the quick stream fix, and that seems to be necessary for most of us.

-David
What about those of us who want to run kmttg on a Mac? I have it all set up and it runs beautifully, takes advantage of my 8 cores, but all the audio is off-sync.

If I have to use VideoRedo, there's really no point in using kmttg at all, since I need to run it on a VM, and VideoRedo plus TivoToGo does everything I need.

I REALLY wanna use those cores, tho...
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:46 PM   #2300
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Not to detract from your suggestion, but do you currently have a custom command enabled? You may be able to leverage a second encoding phase by calling ffmpeg in a script that also contains your encoding profile, passing the [mpegFile_cut] (or whatever file you want to encode) as it's input.
The custom command is in the right queue position for your idea to work. However, I am not sure if I get how the script would work. Could you give an example of how one might look like?
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:30 PM   #2301
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Would you consider adding an option to run all the encoders, decoders, etc (all the really cpu intensive stuff) at low priority or at least lower priority than "normal" priority? I'm assuming that there's a java api for that or it's part of the api used to start another program?

-David
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:07 AM   #2302
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Would you consider adding an option to run all the encoders, decoders, etc (all the really cpu intensive stuff) at low priority or at least lower priority than "normal" priority? I'm assuming that there's a java api for that or it's part of the api used to start another program?

-David
I don't see a way to set process priority in Java when launching the jobs, at least not the way I implemented it. Of course you can always change process priorities manually in your OS (Task Manager for Windows).
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Old 05-08-2010, 12:38 PM   #2303
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I fired up KMTTG again and forgot how much I love this program.

A couple of questions/possible suggestions which I may have made before but I can't remember.

Is it possible to add priority to the TiVos? I have 2 Premieres and one HD so as a result I would prefer if KMTTG can pull from the Premieres first due to transfer speed. Maybe even just add a delay in requesting the NPL from the TiVo set at a lower priority?

I wish TiVo would add season as a field to pull from so I could include it in my filenames. It would make it so much easier to organize and then use tools like metabrowser to organize.
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Old 05-08-2010, 12:52 PM   #2304
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Is it possible to add priority to the TiVos? I have 2 Premieres and one HD so as a result I would prefer if KMTTG can pull from the Premieres first due to transfer speed. Maybe even just add a delay in requesting the NPL from the TiVo set at a lower priority?
There is no priority control and even if there was one can't control how long it takes for each query to return all entries (queries for different TiVos are initiated essentially at same time).
For Auto Transfers you can restrict entries to specific TiVos, so if you want to pull certain shows from certain TiVos you can set that up. If you don't want to pull from a TiVo at all then you can remove it from kmttg and turn off the "Look for Tivos on network" option.
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Old 05-09-2010, 02:10 AM   #2305
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I think it is more that I duplicate recordings across my TiVos but I would rather if possible pull from the Premieres first.

Would it be possible to add an option where Run In GUI could select individual TiVos or all? This way I could RIG Premiere 1 and then Premiere 2 and after those queue then the HD?
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Old 05-09-2010, 04:50 AM   #2306
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I think it is more that I duplicate recordings across my TiVos but I would rather if possible pull from the Premieres first.

Would it be possible to add an option where Run In GUI could select individual TiVos or all? This way I could RIG Premiere 1 and then Premiere 2 and after those queue then the HD?
I have 3 instances of kmttg running on one machine:
  • typical day to day instance that does television series with a name format:
    [mainTitle][/][EpisodeNumber][-][episodeTitle],
  • an "ad-hoc" instance that I use to download movies or special events, with a name format:
    [mainTitle][/][mainTitle]
  • and an instance that I use for my Series2 that records from my security camera with a name format:
    [year][-][monthNum][-][mday][-][wday][-][hour][.][min]

I started out with just two instances because I wanted to name the security camera's videos differently, then thought about the third when I wanted to commercial cut a movie. Maybe you could setup an instance for your Premieres only, and a separate instance for the HD model?
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Old 05-09-2010, 06:26 AM   #2307
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I started out with just two instances because I wanted to name the security camera's videos differently, then thought about the third when I wanted to commercial cut a movie. Maybe you could setup an instance for your Premieres only, and a separate instance for the HD model?
That sounds like a clever idea for customzing the naming, but don't the different instances fight with each other for access to your TiVos?
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:52 AM   #2308
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That sounds like a clever idea for customzing the naming, but don't the different instances fight with each other for access to your TiVos?
I haven't had any issues concerning that (yet?).

The instance I have working with my Series2 & security camera has it's own (uniquely named) service, accomplished by altering C:\Program Files\kmttg for TivoS2\service\conf\wrapper.conf. I used Window's "services.msc" application to manually control that Service until I found where in kmttg's source that controls and queries that service in the GUI. I also don't have that instance "Look for Tivos on network", and only the S2 is defined.

The "daily driver" instance that does TV series' doesn't have any shows defined in it's auto.ini that comes from the Series2, so at most it will do with that box is query the NPL. Nor does it have any movie/special events defined for auto-transfer, so there's no bumping into the "ad-hoc" instance.

The "ad-hoc" instance isn't set for auto-transfer, so all of it's sets of jobs are manually started through the GUI.

As far as the jobs that each instance may create (decrypt, qsfix, etc.), I haven't had a problem with that either. Then again, I don't know if I've started an "ad-hoc" set of jobs while the "daily driver" was busy with a set of jobs of it's own. The Series2 instance I have set to decrypt only, and it takes a very short time with only 30 minute SD videos being produced by that DVR.

I'm definitely not a java programmer, but with a little help from moyekj concerning how to compile java sources (what tools and such to use), I've been able to apply my local MODs without having to bother him with a bunch of enhancement requests to suit my environment.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:50 AM   #2309
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I have 3 instances of kmttg running on one machine:
  • typical day to day instance that does television series with a name format:
    [mainTitle][/][EpisodeNumber][-][episodeTitle],
  • an "ad-hoc" instance that I use to download movies or special events, with a name format:
    [mainTitle][/][mainTitle]
  • and an instance that I use for my Series2 that records from my security camera with a name format:
    [year][-][monthNum][-][mday][-][wday][-][hour][.][min]

I started out with just two instances because I wanted to name the security camera's videos differently, then thought about the third when I wanted to commercial cut a movie. Maybe you could setup an instance for your Premieres only, and a separate instance for the HD model?
Yeah that would probably work. I never thought about doing that.

I think my only issue might be syncing the history file so it doesn't try to download shows already downloaded from the Premieres.
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:54 PM   #2310
orangeboy
yes, I AM orangeboy!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moline, IL
Posts: 4,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by innocentfreak View Post
Yeah that would probably work. I never thought about doing that.

I think my only issue might be syncing the history file so it doesn't try to download shows already downloaded from the Premieres.
Do you run Windows? This should synchronize history files:

Code:
REM Synchronize.History.bat
@ECHO OFF
::--------------------------------------------------------------::
:: Copy both History files into a single temp file.             ::
::--------------------------------------------------------------::
TYPE "%ProgramFiles%\kmttg Series3\Auto.History" >  %temp%\History.Merged
TYPE "%ProgramFiles%\kmttg Series4\Auto.History" >> %temp%\History.Merged

::--------------------------------------------------------------::
:: Initialize an empty temp file.                               ::
::--------------------------------------------------------------::
TYPE NUL > %temp%\Merged.tmp

::--------------------------------------------------------------::
:: Read every line in the merged History file, and see if it    ::
:: exists in the temp file. If not, write that line to the temp ::
:: file. If the line does exist in the temp file, discard it.   ::
::--------------------------------------------------------------::
FOR /f "usebackq tokens=* delims= " %%a IN ("%temp%\History.Merged") DO (
	FIND "%%a" < "%temp%\Merged.tmp" > NUL
	IF ERRORLEVEL 1 ECHO %%a >> "%temp%\Merged.tmp"
)

::--------------------------------------------------------------::
:: Sort the duplicate free temp History file for easy reading.  ::
::--------------------------------------------------------------::
SORT %temp%\Merged.tmp /O %temp%\Merged.tmp

::--------------------------------------------------------------::
:: Replace the existing History files with new easy to read,    ::
:: synchronized file.                                           ::
::--------------------------------------------------------------::
COPY /Y %temp%\Merged.tmp "%ProgramFiles%\kmttg Series3\Auto.History"
COPY /Y %temp%\Merged.tmp "%ProgramFiles%\kmttg Series4\Auto.History"
Added as a Custom Command in kmttg should keep both History files up to date.

Disclaimer: I have used the "FIND < temp > NUL" method to eliminate duplicate records in other files before, but I have not tried this particular batch in standalone. But I'm pretty confident it should work
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