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Old 03-30-2010, 02:45 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by lessd View Post
So from you explanation it would fair for us to assume that at this point the use of a single M cable card in the Series 3 648 will never happen, I don't have a problem with that because, as you pointed out it, was never promised, just hinted at. I do love the Series 3(s) for many reasons and fixing them so i could use one M card would save me only $1.50/month for each Series 3.
When is it a "hint" and when is it a "promise"?

Has Tivo "promised" to use the second CPU core? I don't think so.

Has Tivo "promised" *anything*? Ever?

Until I see the P-word itself come from Bob or another official Tivo rep, I think I need to assume that none of the "hinted-at" features will appear in the shipping Premiere software. So, it would be prudent for me to wait to see what Tivo can actually deliver before I plunk my money down...
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:55 PM   #62
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Actually Roy, that was never promised, and I posted that while technically feasible, it was not likely to happen - it involved big changes that could destabilize things.

If you're going to ding us, ding us for things we actually promised.

Pony
I recall that posting being made after TiVo found it could not live up to the statement you made not once but twice in the video taken at CES 2006 that the S3 would require one multistream card or two single stream cards.

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Old 03-30-2010, 03:20 PM   #63
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I recall that posting being made after TiVo found it could not live up to the statement you made not once but twice in the video taken at CES 2006 that the S3 would require one multistream card or two single stream cards.
Wow, you should just get a Moxi and save yourself a lot of heartburn and video archiving.
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:28 PM   #64
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Yes, the second core is not currently enabled. The software can take advantage of it, but it's not ready to release yet. Still, due to the architecture of that chip you don't get double the performance by enabling the second core, there are too many shared resources on the chip between the two cores. You do see a boost however.

Cheers,
Pony
Any word on how enabling the second core may affect transfer speeds? I thought I read somewhere we might see some type of decrease in speed since that core wouldn't be free anymore to handle just the transfer.
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:53 PM   #65
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When is it a "hint" and when is it a "promise"?

Has Tivo "promised" to use the second CPU core? I don't think so.

Has Tivo "promised" *anything*? Ever?

Until I see the P-word itself come from Bob or another official Tivo rep, I think I need to assume that none of the "hinted-at" features will appear in the shipping Premiere software. So, it would be prudent for me to wait to see what Tivo can actually deliver before I plunk my money down...
I was not referring to the Premiere, I was making reference to the original Series 3.
TiVo has promised the HDUI for the premier but not for any Series 3 TiVo, when it is in the Spec it's a promise. When the original Series 3 came out MRV was not available, TiVo hinted that it would be in the future, and a few months later it was.
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:04 PM   #66
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I recall that posting being made after TiVo found it could not live up to the statement you made not once but twice in the video taken at CES 2006 that the S3 would require one multistream card or two single stream cards.
Roy, good job digging up that video from 2006. Ahh, we were all so much younger then.

To be clear, that was taken at a tradeshow, with a prototype box, nine months prior to product launch. CableLabs did not introduce a certification process for MCard devices until a year later (after Series3 was on the market).

The marketing materials, manual, etc at the time of the Series3 launch did not claim it worked with MCard.

And, as I pointed out, I clarified that this was not in the cards for Series3 not once, but twice in 2008. Here's the post.

I apologize if you misunderstood 'very, very unlikely'. Or if you made your purchase decision based on preliminary information taken from a trade show nine months prior to launch. It certainly was not our intention to mislead you, or others. The guy speaking in January 2006 on that video had every reason to believe that the cable industry would move faster than they did on MCard, and that the product would be able to embrace that new technology.

Now that the full background is there...I'm not looking for an argument. But I will share that this type of 'welcome' is exactly the reason you don't see much of the old TiVo gang online here anymore. Since dropping back in here I've had some words of encouragement, but it's also been asserted that I don't tell the truth, am not to be trusted, that I'm a 'marketing puke'...

Is that really how you all want to attract more participation from TiVo?

Cheers,
Pony
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Last edited by TiVoPony : 03-30-2010 at 06:58 PM. Reason: edited the colon out at the end of 'here's my post'
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:09 PM   #67
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Well put.
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:12 PM   #68
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Pony, don't let some negative post keep you away. I believe that the great majority of those that browse the forums, love it when you come and give us help and insight on Tivo's side. Please keep come back as often as possible.
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:14 PM   #69
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Is that really how you all want to attract more participation from TiVo?

Cheers,
Pony
Definitely not. I know I for one am happy to see you posting on here again.
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:02 PM   #70
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...
Now that the full background is there...I'm not looking for an argument. But I will share that this type of 'welcome' is exactly the reason you don't see much of the old TiVo gang online here anymore. Since dropping back in here I've had some words of encouragement, but it's also been asserted that I don't tell the truth, am not to be trusted, that I'm a 'marketing puke'...

Is that really how you all want to attract more participation from TiVo?

Cheers,
Pony
I didn't mention you at all until you posted a comment in response to my posting stating that you (TiVo) never said that the S3 would be capable of using a single multistream card for multiple tuners.

That isn't true as the video clip clearly shows.

I'd accept your criticism if I'd called you one of the things you mentioned above. I didn't.

Regards
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:38 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony View Post
...
Now that the full background is there...I'm not looking for an argument. But I will share that this type of 'welcome' is exactly the reason you don't see much of the old TiVo gang online here anymore. Since dropping back in here I've had some words of encouragement, but it's also been asserted that I don't tell the truth, am not to be trusted, that I'm a 'marketing puke'...

Is that really how you all want to attract more participation from TiVo?

Cheers,
Pony
I didn't mention you at all until you posted a comment in response to my posting stating that you (TiVo) never said that the S3 would be capable of using a single multistream card for multiple tuners.

That isn't true as the video clip clearly shows.

I'd accept your criticism if I'd called you one of the things you mentioned above. I didn't.

Regards
Roy,
Pony clearly made his remarks general when he said "you all". If you didn't make any disparaging remarks towards Pony or other TiVo employees, then take no criticism.

This next part is not directed at you Roy.
People bitch about TiVo not participating in the Community forum, but can you blame them after the personal bashing that Pony described? I've said it before: this forum feels less communal, especially when riddled with negative posts and rants about how much better "product X" is so much better than TiVo.
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:46 PM   #72
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Yup. Just like the capability to do 2 tuners on one M-Card on the S3 was to eventually be turned on with later updates. Oh, ... wait a minute...
Tivo has added features and functionality to every new Series after their introduction. I'm enjoying many features on my S3 today that weren't available or promised at launch.
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:49 PM   #73
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I didn't mention you at all until you posted a comment in response to my posting stating that you (TiVo) never said that the S3 would be capable of using a single multistream card for multiple tuners.

That isn't true as the video clip clearly shows.

I'd accept your criticism if I'd called you one of the things you mentioned above. I didn't.

Regards
Meanwhile people wonder why TiVo doesn't talk about anything in advance anymore.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:28 AM   #74
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Now that the full background is there...I'm not looking for an argument. But I will share that this type of 'welcome' is exactly the reason you don't see much of the old TiVo gang online here anymore. Since dropping back in here I've had some words of encouragement, but it's also been asserted that I don't tell the truth, am not to be trusted, that I'm a 'marketing puke'...
I'm sorry, but that's self-serving BS. You can always take the high road and ignore the extremists, but if all you want to hear from are fanboys then you need to stick to the tivo.com blog and forums.

Legit criticism of the Premiere and Tivo's decisions on software changes should be welcome here, same as the praise that comes with listening and acting on good suggestions from your customers.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:48 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by TiVoPony View Post
Now that the full background is there...I'm not looking for an argument. But I will share that this type of 'welcome' is exactly the reason you don't see much of the old TiVo gang online here anymore. Since dropping back in here I've had some words of encouragement, but it's also been asserted that I don't tell the truth, am not to be trusted, that I'm a 'marketing puke'...

...Legit criticism of the Premiere and Tivo's decisions on software changes should be welcome here, same as the praise that comes with listening and acting on good suggestions from your customers.
Correct. Personal attacks and name calling that Pony described (and endured) are not welcome.
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Last edited by orangeboy : 03-31-2010 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:58 AM   #76
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Don't bite the hand that feeds.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:32 AM   #77
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Perfectly worded IMO. I am happy to see Tivo employees here again. I just wonder where they were when developing the series 4. Faster MRV is about the only feature wished for here that is included in the premiere.

I'd be happy if tivo explained why they are not interested in things like hive scheduling, MRV streaming, DLNA and all the other great suggestions made here. Are they even aware of all the great suggestions from their customers?

TiVO owes "us" nothing but perhaps addressing these things might quiet the sour grapes feeling at TCF.


I won't hold my breath.


respectfully,
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Off topic, but... what is hive scheduling?
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:36 AM   #78
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Perfectly worded IMO. I am happy to see Tivo employees here again. I just wonder where they were when developing the series 4. Faster MRV is about the only feature wished for here that is included in the premiere.
Also included in the Premiere is the Free Space Indicator and Video Window that some/many seemed to want.

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I'd be happy if tivo explained why they are not interested in things like hive scheduling, MRV streaming, DLNA and all the other great suggestions made here. Are they even aware of all the great suggestions from their customers?
It's possible those things are on the mind of TiVo, but don't want to disclose anything for fear of being dinged by it later should it not come to pass (MCard support in the 648 model being mentioned earlier in this thread being an example...)
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:39 AM   #79
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But I will share that this type of 'welcome' is exactly the reason you don't see much of the old TiVo gang online here anymore.
I completely understand TiVoPony. Posters are allowed now adays to go so far off base here without so much as a hand slap. Dare speak up to the people going way off base........
Since none of that can be publicly discussed I have just resorted to acting stupid like the rest of them. I have no further desire to add anything of value to this forum.
maybe noting that a TiVo representative has no desire to post in the TiVo community forum can get the forum owners to wake up and smell the coffee on how much better a forum this could be again. Ignore lists are no good when they get filled up daily or the TiVo reps decide to legitmately put the entire forum on their ignore lists.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:43 AM   #80
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I completely understand TiVoPony. Posters are allowed now adays to go so far off base here without so much as a hand slap. Dare speak up to the people going way off base........
Since none of that can be publicly discussed I have just resorted to acting stupid like the rest of them. I have no further desire to add anything of value to this forum.
maybe noting that a TiVo representative has no desire to post in the TiVo community forum can get the forum owners to wake up and smell the coffee on how much better a forum this could be again. Ignore lists are no good when they get filled up daily.
Not that it matters, you've just been removed from my ignore list.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:43 AM   #81
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It would be nice if some of the folks around here would let TiVo be TiVo and not try to run the company from their computer chair.

Everyone has an opinion, but surely TiVo and its employees have reasons for the decisions they have made, and I believe TiVo are listening to their customers by utilsing these forums. I think many of the reasons why some of the most requested features have not been implemented, probably lies more with the hardware limitations and impact on the user experience more than it does with lack of innovation. With the birth of the Premiere, TiVo will have a lot more headspace to build on their product, and not only implement features they have on their wish list but hopefully features regularly requested from their customer base.

I for one am glad that Pony and other TiVo employees make time to visit these forums, which illustrates that TiVo has not become too big to listen to their customers.

No, I am not a TiVo fan boy, I was disappointed that the personalized user profiles were nothing more than a mock up (a feature I feel would be useful for me), but I`m just one of many TiVo users out there, and can accept that no one product it going to be perfect as you simply cannot please everyone.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:47 AM   #82
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I'm sorry, but that's self-serving BS. You can always take the high road and ignore the extremists, but if all you want to hear from are fanboys then you need to stick to the tivo.com blog and forums.

Legit criticism of the Premiere and Tivo's decisions on software changes should be welcome here, same as the praise that comes with listening and acting on good suggestions from your customers.
do you read the posts? The hassle was over RoyK dragging up video about the series 3 It was a dead issue but he just had to bash TiVoPony with it, and people wonder why I just have lightened up and gone with stupid posts for the most part
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:50 AM   #83
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...No, I am not a TiVo fan boy, I was disappointed that the personalized user profiles were nothing more than a mock up (a feature I feel would be useful for me), but I`m just one of many TiVo users out there, and can accept that no one product it going to be perfect as you simply cannot please everyone.
On a positive note concerning the mock ups, it demonstrates that innovative ideas are still being produced by TiVo, but just not implemented ([hopeful] yet? [/hopeful])
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:09 AM   #84
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do you read the posts? The hassle was over RoyK dragging up video about the series 3 It was a dead issue but he just had to bash TiVoPony with it, and people wonder why I just have lightened up and gone with stupid posts for the most part
do you read the posts?
The hassle was over RoyK being dinged for recalling that TiVo said something with a statement that it was never said.

When RoyK provided evidence it changed to "We were younger then" and "that was at a trade show in advance of release..."

Ok, I accept that. Moral - don't put any faith in what's said at a trade show.

I learned my lesson.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:17 AM   #85
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do you read the posts?
The hassle was over RoyK being dinged for recalling that TiVo said something with a statement that it was never said.

When RoyK provided evidence it changed to "We were younger then" and "that was at a trade show in advance of release..."

Ok, I accept that. Moral - don't put any faith in what's said at a trade show.

I learned my lesson.
duh - at a trade show they are not dealing with the final product and it was verbal - it was indeed just talk.

anyhow your attitude in this thread is EXACTLY what is wrong with this forum. Could you please learn that lesson.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:22 AM   #86
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No you shouldn't. That's why company's release press releases. Personally I wouldnt hold any one person at any company responsible for what may or may not happen with a product, especially in the Tech Industry. Having represented my Tech company at trade shows, I can not anticipate what may happen several months down the road, stuff happens, your suppliers fail you and specs/products change.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:32 AM   #87
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duh - at a trade show they are not dealing with the final product and it was verbal - it was indeed just talk.
That's what I said. Apparently what is said at a trade show is just talk and not to be believed.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:44 AM   #88
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On a positive note concerning the mock ups, it demonstrates that innovative ideas are still being produced by TiVo, but just not implemented ([hopeful] yet? [/hopeful])
Yeah and itís very easy to criticize a product when you donít understand the technical requirements to put something like that in place. I honestly think that some folks on this forum think many of these things can be added in ten minutes.

Every piece of code has to be modified so it understands what a user profile is; database schemes have to be modified to track such things, not to mention any impact on other features which may need to be updated. That's just one feature.

And personally for the record I love some of the new features on the Premiere and cant wait to get mine.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:54 AM   #89
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and not to be believed.
this is the part you have trouble with and exactly why TiVoPony is very unlikely to give people any more updates. He came here to help people with an issue on the HD UI and YOU just sucked the life right out of that help with something that has zero bearing on the help he was giving or the product.

YOU provided a specific example of why this forum has gone downhill so badly.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:56 AM   #90
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I'd be happy if tivo explained why they are not interested in things like hive scheduling, MRV streaming, DLNA and all the other great suggestions made here. Are they even aware of all the great suggestions from their customers?
The fact that those features aren't available at release doesn't mean that TiVo isn't interested. Why was TiVo "not interested" in web scheduling or MRV, or video downloads, or any of the many other features that have been added to TiVo DVRs after release?

We've seen a perfect example in this thread of why TiVo rarely talks about anything these days before it's on the shelf or available for download. TiVo could tell you today that they're working on all of those things and it would simply become something else for someone to pummel them with tomorrow. Why should anyone want to participate in a "community" where they have to put a three page "forward looking statements" disclaimer at the end of every post?

I do think TiVoPony overstates his case a bit. I think their reduced presence here is equal parts change in their own culture, change in the Internet culture, and change in the way this forum is managed. It's a shame.
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