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Old 02-23-2010, 10:09 AM   #121
aine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwinn View Post
Are you sure you're viewing an analog channel, and not a digital feed? My guess is that it's a digital SD feed that you're seeing. You can check by tuning into the channel, then going to the DVR Diagnostics page and seeing whether it's an analog feed, or digital... if it's digital, it can still suffer from the same problem (ie, something is missing from the video data stream, that prevents Tivo from being able to 1x FF).

Check to make sure it's an analog channel... if you're using cablecards, you may be seeing a digital 480i stream after all.
No, I am not sure. The reason I thought it was analog was because when I first got the TiVo, the picture was snowy, and I had ghosting on local channels, like you see with analog. Time Warner guy told me that only channels 100+ are digital, but he of course could have been wrong.

Here's what I see on the DVR Diagnostics screen; can you interpret?

Tuner: 0
Channel: 7
Frequency: 561000 KHz
Modulation: QAM 256
Connector Type: RF 2
Signal Source: Cable
CAbleCARD Association: CableCARD 1
Signal Strength: 68-75 (varies)
Signal Lock: Yes
Program Lock: Yes
Search Complete: Yes
SNR: 33 dB
...
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:18 PM   #122
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QAM 256 = digital... you're watching a digital SD feed of the station (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM_%28television%29 )

So, the explanation stands - the digital stream probably doesn't have the indexing (or whatever it is) that allows Tivo to 1x FF or RW...

In other words, it's not Tivo's fault, since it's not re-encoding the video stream... the provider isn't sending that data. If anything, you can complain to the provider (likely the network) but I doubt you'll get very far.
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:29 AM   #123
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If anything, you can complain to the provider (likely the network) but I doubt you'll get very far.
Thanks for the info... I'm willing to complain to someone. Two questions: is it NBC as in the network, or my local affiliate, any idea?

Second, what exactly would I tell them? Technically, what is missing from the stream? I just want something "smart" to include in my email or letter, something accurate that they can act on. Thanks.
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:09 AM   #124
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Thanks for the info... I'm willing to complain to someone. Two questions: is it NBC as in the network, or my local affiliate, any idea?
It seems like this has been happening very frequently with NBC sports...I'm seeing it with the Olympics too. I'm almost positive it's an issue with NBC, but have no confidence that anybody is knowledgeable or competent enough to do anything about it.
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Old 02-25-2010, 12:03 PM   #125
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This is a fantastic thread. Thanks to everyone who has a clue, giving meaningful info to those of us that are longing for some direction.

The lack of 1x FF has been driving me insane. I have a similar story to many on this thread. My DT worked brilliantly w/ analog. to keep two tuners, which is a huge bonus, I had to upgrade to the HD when Comcast went digital.

I spoke to 5 different Tivo support people on the lack of 1x FF topic. None had a clue. Massive frustration and waste of my time.

they sent me a refurbed HD box. It wouldn't even boot up. They sent me another new HD box...same no-1x-ff prob. I decided to do some research - and found this thread. Obviously should have done so first. Almost told Tivo to go shove their box, and I'd go w/ DVR. Sounds like that woulnd't have helped.

Watching sports has been painful ever since the "upgrade" (to digitial and my HD box)... 1x FF was awesome to get through commercials, free throws, time outs, huddles, injuries, etc., etc.

I used to applaud Tivo's support. I no longer can. I used to be ecstatic w/ the Tivo experience. I no longer am.

From this thread, I understand it is a compression problem. But, I also think Tivo can come up with some "workaround" that would be between zero and 2x FF. I hope they put some effort into it. I have a Tivo almost entirely for sports. The experience has been more than marginalized. I do not feel like I'm getting my money's worth from the new box nor my subscription. I regret the upgrade.

Sad - i used to be a huge fan.
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:28 PM   #126
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Thanks for the info... I'm willing to complain to someone. Two questions: is it NBC as in the network, or my local affiliate, any idea?
Not sure, but since everyone sees this, I imagine it's NBC's main feed that is missing this data, and the affiliates are simply relaying the stream as-is. All I can say is, good luck getting them to do something about it... I wouldn't hold my breath.

Makes me wonder, though, do cable company DVRs have the 1x speed, and does it work on their equipment? Anyone know?
Quote:
Second, what exactly would I tell them? Techically, what is missing from the stream? I just want something "smart" to include in my email or letter, something accurate that they can act on. Thanks.
I have asked this question here before (on this thread?): What, exactly, is missing from the stream? No one has answered that for me... I imagine it's some sort of indexing frames or something, but I certainly don't know.

I guess if someone is interested, they can pull the video down to the PC and compare one that works with one that doesn't... assuming the PC-transfer isn't blocked, of course!
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:20 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by russelpo View Post
Watching sports has been painful ever since the "upgrade" (to digitial and my HD box)... 1x FF was awesome to get through commercials, free throws, time outs, huddles, injuries, etc., etc.
I have problems with 1x FF on various channels (but not all). So I don't use it very much. But that's not quite as bad as it sounds. There are really two main alternatives:

1) 2x FF works well, once you get used to how it automatically rewinds just a little at the end. Train your fingers.

2) enable the 30-second skip forward button. This works quite well for the "typical" football game. However, when Payton Manning goes into "hurry-up offense", you will need to follow a skip forward with the 8-second rewind button. Unfortunately this scheme doesn't work nearly as well with shorter duration events like free throws.

The alternatives to 1x FF aren't great, but they're not horrible either.

I've lately started playing around with various software players for my Mac: VLC, Plex, XBMC, MPlayer OSX Extended, etc. You want "painful"? Go try to move around your files with any of those! Much worse than how TiVo lets you do it.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:05 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by schwinn View Post
I have asked this question here before (on this thread?): What, exactly, is missing from the stream? No one has answered that for me... I imagine it's some sort of indexing frames or something, but I certainly don't know.
See the referenced links in post #100 of this thread. They explain the stream issue very well:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...02#post7636402
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:10 AM   #129
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markens - thanks for the link... I must have missed it.

The first post implies it might be an I/P frame issue... but doesn't say if that's what it is, exactly. I had agreed (post 107) that it was a frame issue like this, but don't have any confirmation that it was I or P (or B) frames, specifically. I'm just curious... has that been determined?

Still, that implies Tivo could improve the 1x operations in such cases, if they were so inclined. If it doesn't come with the next update (I predict one will come with the new March 2nd announcement)... then it won't be happening anytime soon.
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Old 03-03-2010, 02:00 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by aine View Post
Thanks for the info... I'm willing to complain to someone. Two questions: is it NBC as in the network, or my local affiliate, any idea?

Second, what exactly would I tell them? Technically, what is missing from the stream? I just want something "smart" to include in my email or letter, something accurate that they can act on. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpBE View Post
It seems like this has been happening very frequently with NBC sports...I'm seeing it with the Olympics too. I'm almost positive it's an issue with NBC, but have no confidence that anybody is knowledgeable or competent enough to do anything about it.
It is absolutely *NOT* NBC. NBC's one of the main networks I watch, and I haven't once seen anything like this in the past year I've had my HD XL. Nothing like it in the probably at least 40 hours of Olympics I taped either.

I have ATSC...so that's probably why. It could be a local affiliate, but it's probably much more likely that your cable company is compressing stuff further, and messing things up.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:11 PM   #131
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Over the weekend during the UCLA-ASU basketball game on CBS (SD, not HD), I saw something interesting related to this thread.

I clicked the 1x FF button, and every few seconds, it would toggle between normal "live" speed and the expected 1x FF (triple-speed, is it?) speed. That is, click FF, for a few seconds players moving normally, then speed up for a few seconds, then back to moving normally, then speed up again, and so on.

Another problem with this is that after I 1x FF to the spot I want, the TiVo does not begin to play at that spot. It seemed like it was jumping back like it does in 2x and 3x FF. One of the things that (used to) distinguish TiVo by generic DVRs is the super-smooth 1x FF, and responsive "play" after 1x FF. No longer I guess.

Has anyone else seen the behavior where 1x FF randomly speeds up and slows down every few seconds while 1x FF is active?
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:23 AM   #132
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Has anyone else seen the behavior where 1x FF randomly speeds up and slows down every few seconds while 1x FF is active?
Yes, I saw this a few years ago with Versus SD and downhill skiing, on Comcast. Don't have Comcast anymore, so I don't know if it still happens there.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:24 AM   #133
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I clicked the 1x FF button, and every few seconds, it would toggle between normal "live" speed and the expected 1x FF (triple-speed, is it?) speed. That is, click FF, for a few seconds players moving normally, then speed up for a few seconds, then back to moving normally, then speed up again, and so on.

Another problem with this is that after I 1x FF to the spot I want, the TiVo does not begin to play at that spot. It seemed like it was jumping back like it does in 2x and 3x FF. One of the things that (used to) distinguish TiVo by generic DVRs is the super-smooth 1x FF, and responsive "play" after 1x FF. No longer I guess.

Has anyone else seen the behavior where 1x FF randomly speeds up and slows down every few seconds while 1x FF is active?
Every channel where the 1xFF doesn't work exhibits the same thing you've desribed. It will shift between normal speed to a somewhat faster but jittery speed. NBC is always bad for me. YES network, too, but only during games. (During other programming 1xff on YES is fine.) SpeedTV used to be bad but now works fine. I'd say 1xff is useless on about 50% of channels I receive.

I have not noticed the other issue of not resuming play at the desired place.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:27 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Puppy76 View Post
It is absolutely *NOT* NBC. NBC's one of the main networks I watch, and I haven't once seen anything like this in the past year I've had my HD XL. Nothing like it in the probably at least 40 hours of Olympics I taped either.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it is "absolutely *NOT* NBC". These other posts seem to point to a trend:

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianblack View Post
Watching the Olympics right now my Tivo HD is doing this... The first level of FF pretty much does nothing other than mute the audio. Occasional bursts of double speed...

Time Warner, dual cable cards, HDMI, Native resolutoin, NBC in HD
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Originally Posted by wedenton View Post
Both my S3 and HD have always done this, but only with one OTA channel (NBC 12-1 Richmond VA).
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Originally Posted by FiosUser View Post
The time it most is a problem is on NBC HD (recording the olympics). I haven't seen it any other time.
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Originally Posted by GregComeLately View Post
The problem occurred again last night for the Bears/Colts game on NBC via OTA HD, and continued on for after the game for my local NBC affiliate programming.
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Originally Posted by FiosUser View Post
I've only had this happen 2 times in my life. Both times were on the USA Men's Basketball games on NBC during this past olympics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deaddeeds View Post
I noticed the 1XFF problem Sunday on NBC HD with my S3 during the Cowboy's game but last night on ESPN HD it was back to normal.
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Another evening of "slow" 1xFF on Sunday Night Football on NBC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbernardis View Post
One further observation on this issue - it only seems to happen on NBC HD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I also continue to notice it with SNL on NBC. I'll check a shorter NBC HD program (e.g. 30 Rock) to see if a short NBC program exhibits the same behavior.
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Originally Posted by jbernardis View Post
I agree with the above post. My experience is that this happens ONLY on NBC HD, whether cable or OTA.
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Originally Posted by rifleman69 View Post
I'm noticing it on NBC-related broadcasts as well, including those on another network such as the 10pm news produced by the local NBC affiliate on another channel.
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Nope, I still see this to this day on some of the channels, as I've indicated earlier. NBC (for Sunday Night Football) is the most annoying.
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Originally Posted by FiosUser View Post
Watching Saturday Night Live recorded from NBC HD had the problem.

Seems I've had the problem most with NBC, but also Fox Sports West.
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Originally Posted by blacknoi View Post
This happened to me during the Thanksgiving day parade as broadcast on NBCHD on my S3... using the live buffer.
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Originally Posted by rifleman69 View Post
Anyone notice the pattern, it has something to do with NBC or NBC-related stations (besides FSN-HD)? Wonder if there's something that's not being sent out right.
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Originally Posted by jbernardis View Post
This still happens to me on NBCDT - both cable and OTA. I was hoping that the fall update would fix it but no dice.
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Originally Posted by FiosUser View Post
On the other hand, NBCHD has this problem all the time now (not just on sports shows--like I had previously thought).
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Originally Posted by Rockaway Bruce View Post
I'm having the same 1x ff issue. Mostly occurs with NBC HD.
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Originally Posted by Rockaway Bruce View Post
It does seem that this issue primarily (only?) occurs on NBC HD and Comcast Sports Net (non-HD).
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Originally Posted by FiosUser View Post
I see the problem today watching a recording of Saturday Night Live from NBC HD.
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Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
On my provider (FiOS), 1x FF works on every SD and HD channel except for WRC (NBC4 in DC).
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Originally Posted by FiosUser View Post
My 1x FF on FIOS in Orange County still does not work on NBC HD.
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Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
With my provider (FiOS), the local NBC HD affiliate is the only channel I watch regularly that exhibits this issue.
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Originally Posted by medellin618 View Post
Noticed problem last year in the playoffs, CBS games only; this year NBC games have also had same problem.
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Originally Posted by smukkers22 View Post
I have issues with Cablevision NY NBCHD 704
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Originally Posted by aine View Post
I have a TiVo HD but I record regular analog cable channels using my CableCARD. I just started noticing this problem during the Olympics. Single-click fast forward is the same speed as normal (1sec=1sec). This is on regular NBC (Time Warner San Diego Channel 7).

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Old 03-09-2010, 10:36 AM   #135
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Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it is "absolutely *NOT* NBC". These other posts seem to point to a trend:
Not really. Only 4 of those are confirmed ATSC, and if it were NBC, I'd be seeing it too. Since I don't, it can't be NBC.
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Old 03-09-2010, 02:32 PM   #136
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Not really. Only 4 of those are confirmed ATSC, and if it were NBC, I'd be seeing it too. Since I don't, it can't be NBC.
Most people aren't saying that it happens all the time with all NBC programming.

I went outside today and it was bright and sunny. That doesn't mean I'll assume that rain never falls from the sky.
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:28 AM   #137
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Most people aren't saying that it happens all the time with all NBC programming.

I went outside today and it was bright and sunny. That doesn't mean I'll assume that rain never falls from the sky.
Yes, but it doesn't EVER happen for me in over a year of use, including things that are triggering the behavior for others.
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:56 PM   #138
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Bump

Was thinking of getting a Premiere XL but not until I see that Tivo has fixed or worked around this problem. Anyone know if the Premiere has this fixed. (Yes, I know that it's lack of info in the compressed stream from provider, but the Tivo output is reading off a hard disk and they should have a workaround by now)
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:36 AM   #139
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Premiere Elite doesn't fix the problem.
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:47 AM   #140
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Anyone know if TIVO now acknowledges this problem, or do they still claim ignorance about it? I just recently "upgraded" from a series 2 to TIVO HD and the lack of a functional 2x FF is really annoying.
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:22 PM   #141
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An actual answer from TIVO on the non-functional 2X FF issue!!

Follow-up on this topic after talking with TIVO support today. Like everyone else who tried to call TIVO on this issue, the first person I talked with had no knowledge of this problem. I insisted on talking with a supervisor, and a different person was placed on the phone and he was immediately aware of this problem and offered a explanation. He said that this problem is caused by variations in the digital stream and encoding that for some signals prevents from working properly the normal algorithm that the software uses to provide the first FF speed (which is supposed to be 2X speed). He said TIVO has been aware of this for a very long time, and they have tried several software mods to correct it but they have not eliminated the problem. He said they still continue to work this issue, but have no timetable for a possible fix. I commented to him that there are many others with this problem, and he indicated that of the total TIVO population of customers out there only a small fraction actually experience this problem, as some users apparently don't have the issue. He said that such things as cable company encoding differences, signal strength, line length to hubs, etc all play into the problem. His explanation as to why there is nothing on the TIVO website about this is because "it is not TIVO policy to post bugs in the FAQ section", and that a relatively small portion of their customer base have the issue. For me that reason is misguided to say the least.

I strongly suggested him that it would be much better for TIVO to post something about this so that those customers who ARE having the problem would at least understand why it is happening, and might be somewhat satisfied to know that TIVO recognizes the problem and might continue to work to correct it. I made him aware that it is MUCH WORSE to try to pretend the problem doesn't exist and instead better post what they know.

My suggestion to others is to call TIVO and ask for a ticket to be opened on this issue for them to be submitted to "level 2". That way maybe if there is enough documentation in their system they will make a renewed attempt at correcting the issue.

A comment was made by the supervisor that he thought the Premier machines did not have this problem. I let him know that according to at least one post in this thread they do. Of course now that I think about it, if TIVO thinks Premier machines work fine, why haven't they taken that knowledge to help them make changes to Series 3 to correct it on those machines as well....?

Last edited by rocketscientist : 10-24-2011 at 02:43 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:30 PM   #142
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Never in 6 years have I noticed this issue in 3 Series 2 units(2 still in use), and 4 years with the Tivo HD, still running (almost)perfectly.
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:42 PM   #143
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Consider yourself lucky. I have only had a TIVO HD for three weeks (it was new when I activated it however) and have the problem on several channels. It apparently depends on many factors. I wish I was one of the lucky ones, as I really liked using the first FF speed to help quickly watch a recorded NFL game.
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:11 AM   #144
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I really liked using the first FF speed to help quickly watch a recorded NFL game.
The 30 second skip button works very well for quickly getting through football games. As soon as one play ends, hit "->|" and you should be almost up to the next snap.

If they're calling plays quickly and you're skipping past the play, hit the replay button before you hit the 30 second skip, so you're actually skipping ahead 22 seconds (8 back, 30 forward).
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:13 PM   #145
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It really is channel dependent. In Houston, the CBS affiliate has the 1X problem. Almost no difference between regular and 1X. And this is true whether I'm watching via Comcast or antenna (I have both).

But ABC & NBC, and every other cable channel, all work properly. 1X is about three times the speed. I love it for news programs--captions still roll at 1X, so you can speed thru the news and still follow it.

It's a shame that about half of what I record from OTA is on CBS.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:45 AM   #146
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By the way, something I haven't seen mentioned about the 1xFF problem is that it only affects forward, not reverse 1xFF (or is it called 1xFR for fast reverse?). But to be honest, reverse 1xFF is affected in how choppy it appears, but at lease it does 1xFF. My guess is that whenever TiVo pulls its head out of the sand to address this issue, channels affected will get this same choppy look when doing 1xFF forward. Choppy is better than nothing...
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:19 AM   #147
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I hate the new change to the fast forward. The 4th time the FF was pressed backed up the program just enough to not miss any of the show. Tech support said that many complaints are pouring in. If enough Tivo owners complain, there is a chance they will go back to the way the fast forward used to be. EVERYONE NEEDS TO CALL AND COMPLAIN! Ask the Tivo technical suport rep to fill out a complaint form.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:19 PM   #148
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I prefer the new FF. I used to sometimes jump past 3X to 4X when I didn't mean to. Now it locks in. I always pressed PLAY to stop the FF.
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:51 PM   #149
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ha...I have had this FF problem forever with NBCHD and NESNHD...I like to watch my Bruins Hockey in 1xff and it's been horrible lately...I just never bothered to search it out because I knew it would be some sort of encoding/bit stream/garbldeygock error..
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:33 PM   #150
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This sucks. Tivo HD won't advance quicker using the first FF (on movies transferred from my PC). Tivo Premiere won't show captions in first FF, nor will it advance quicker using the first FF (on movies transferred from my PC).
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