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Old 11-10-2009, 02:09 PM   #1831
BobCamp1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
FiOS is about Internet/TV, it has nothing to do with phone. Your current phone service will remain unchanged... although they will switch your connection from copper to fiber optic.

BOb
Incorrect.

Verizon offers their own VoIP. Switching to that or any other VoIP would negatively affect modem/fax performance.

If he uses the analog (POTS) over FIOS service, the installation comes with an 8 hour battery. After the battery is dead, you lose dial tone. The phones and alarm systems don't work anymore (unless you have a generator). The line quality using analog over FIOS is slightly better than copper, so if anything you'll get slightly better modem/fax performance.

If he's really paranoid, I think (with managerial approval) he can keep analog over copper which would avoid having to depend on the battery.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:29 PM   #1832
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Howdy. My wife is really putting on the pressure to switch high-speed Internet service, so I'm back considering switching to FiOS.
Okay, just got done with a manager. FiOS sucks, AFAIC. He told me that, without a doubt, they will not put the router in my loft without either me pre-wiring my home for Cat5, or them tacking Cat5 up from my basement stairs, up my foyer wall, under the lip of a step, over a threshold, and then down the wall in my loft -- exposed wires instead of snaked through the walls. He said that that is now hard and fast Verizon policy. Ridiculous. That more than overcomes any marginal advantage that FiOS might have offered.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:41 PM   #1833
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Okay, just got done with a manager. FiOS sucks, AFAIC. He told me that, without a doubt, they will not put the router in my loft without either me pre-wiring my home for Cat5, or them tacking Cat5 up from my basement stairs, up my foyer wall, under the lip of a step, over a threshold, and then down the wall in my loft -- exposed wires instead of snaked through the walls. He said that that is now hard and fast Verizon policy. Ridiculous. That more than overcomes any marginal advantage that FiOS might have offered.
But they will snake coax, no? What, exactly, is wrong with MoCA?
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:10 PM   #1834
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But they will snake coax, no? What, exactly, is wrong with MoCA?
Nothing, aside from that fact that it forces you to use their router. Verizon's Westell 9100EM router is decent, but you can't get that in all areas (outside of ebay).

With MoCA, there's no need for wireless because you can add a Motorola NIM-100 (or another MoCA adapter) anywhere else in the home that you have coax to get a 100Mbps connection. I have a 100Mbps LAN connection to every PC and every TiVo using MoCA adapters, without ethernet or wireless. This isn't a quasi-100Mbps LAN connection; I see 85-90Mbps usable when transferring files between computers.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:14 PM   #1835
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But they will snake coax, no?
I dunno... no need, here, since the house is wired with coax already.

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What, exactly, is wrong with MoCA?
My message didn't refer to MoCA.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:25 PM   #1836
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I dunno... no need, here, since the house is wired with coax already.

My message didn't refer to MoCA.
Swell - here we go. Since you were going on about CAT-5 I assumed you had something against MoCA.

My bad. Have a nice day.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:25 PM   #1837
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FiOS is about Internet/TV, it has nothing to do with phone. Your current phone service will remain unchanged... although they will switch your connection from copper to fiber optic.
Since he's got alarm service I'd recommend telling Verizon that and making them leave copper for the phone connection. (They like to pull the copper and run everything over optical; but many alarm systems have issues with that).

And, possibly depending on your area, FIOS does offer triple-play bundles with either normal or VOIP phone service, in addition to TV and Internet.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:32 PM   #1838
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Since he's got alarm service I'd recommend telling Verizon that and making them leave copper for the phone connection. (They like to pull the copper and run everything over optical; but many alarm systems have issues with that).

And, possibly depending on your area, FIOS does offer triple-play bundles with either normal or VOIP phone service, in addition to TV and Internet.
Actually, from the customer perspective, FIOS is POTS on the customer side of the ONT. It is not VoIP in the classic sense, but the other poster is correct insomuch as loss of service once the battery backup runs out in the event of a power failure.

For the record, no one forces you to include phone in the FIOS bundle. It's just cheaper when you get all 3 services.
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:02 PM   #1839
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Actually, from the customer perspective, FIOS is POTS on the customer side of the ONT. It is not VoIP in the classic sense, but the other poster is correct insomuch as loss of service once the battery backup runs out in the event of a power failure.

For the record, no one forces you to include phone in the FIOS bundle. It's just cheaper when you get all 3 services.
OK, apparently my knowledge was out of date. It looks like Verizon may have shut down their Vonage competitor, Voicewing, back in March.

When I signed up for FIOS I had the option of not bundling phone or bundling "traditional POTS" (over optical) or bundling Voicewing VOIP. (Or if I'd made a fuss, leaving the copper pairs for really traditional POTS but normally they only do this if you've got an alarm, since alarms often don't work right with POTS over optical)
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Old 11-10-2009, 04:14 PM   #1840
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I'm confused. Why can't you just put your new router in the same location as your existing router?




Quote:
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Okay, just got done with a manager. FiOS sucks, AFAIC. He told me that, without a doubt, they will not put the router in my loft without either me pre-wiring my home for Cat5, or them tacking Cat5 up from my basement stairs, up my foyer wall, under the lip of a step, over a threshold, and then down the wall in my loft -- exposed wires instead of snaked through the walls. He said that that is now hard and fast Verizon policy. Ridiculous. That more than overcomes any marginal advantage that FiOS might have offered.

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Old 11-10-2009, 05:48 PM   #1841
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Because the manager at Verizon customer support indicated that the router had to be connected to the ONT by Cat5, and the router needs to go two storeys above where the ONT would be.

Evidently, that was bs. FiOS must hire some real losers, if this guy made it to manager.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:06 PM   #1842
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Because the manager at Verizon customer support indicated that the router had to be connected to the ONT by Cat5, and the router needs to go two storeys above where the ONT would be.

Evidently, that was bs. FiOS must hire some real losers, if this guy made it to manager.
Complete BS. In fact, coax is widely considered the medium of choice. The router can go wherever you decide it should go.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:09 PM   #1843
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So basically back to square one for me tomorrow. Grrr
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:06 PM   #1844
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At least in NY the Verizon installers are Verizon employees (not independent contractors) and are capable of snaking wire. You may need to tip. Snaking wire is generally not included with basic installation with cable, FiOS or DTV.


My installation has a splitter coming out of the ONT box. One coax leg goes to the router and the other goes to my cable splitter (for video).

Is there any reason why your router can't be in whatever room is adjacent to your ONT?

Where is your router currently located? Do you already have cat5 running from the room nearest the likely location of your ONT to the present location of your router?
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:43 PM   #1845
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Quote:
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Okay, just got done with a manager. FiOS sucks, AFAIC. He told me that, without a doubt, they will not put the router in my loft without either me pre-wiring my home for Cat5, or them tacking Cat5 up from my basement stairs, up my foyer wall, under the lip of a step, over a threshold, and then down the wall in my loft -- exposed wires instead of snaked through the walls. He said that that is now hard and fast Verizon policy. Ridiculous. That more than overcomes any marginal advantage that FiOS might have offered.
I don't get it. Where are they going to put your router? They have to run a cable to your "loft" to get you Internet.

BOb

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Old 11-10-2009, 10:48 PM   #1846
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Incorrect.

Verizon offers their own VoIP. Switching to that or any other VoIP would negatively affect modem/fax performance.
VoiceWing has nothing to do with FiOS. FiOS is about Internet and TV. If you can go on their web site and find where it says FiOS phone service then I will agree I was incorrect.


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Originally Posted by BobCamp1 View Post
If he uses the analog (POTS) over FIOS service, the installation comes with an 8 hour battery. After the battery is dead, you lose dial tone. The phones and alarm systems don't work anymore (unless you have a generator). The line quality using analog over FIOS is slightly better than copper, so if anything you'll get slightly better modem/fax performance.
My understanding is that when you get FiOS they switch your POTS to the fiber from the copper.

Does ANYONE have FiOS and still have POTS over copper to the office?

Anyone?

BOb
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:27 PM   #1847
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Does ANYONE have FiOS and still have POTS over copper to the office?
We have the VZ FIOS bundle - TV, Broadband and phone. All work extremely well. All of the original phone wiring (from Comcast) is still in place. VZ phone doesn't affect/interact with anything else. Broadband speed is rock-solid steady (we have 20/5) and video PQ is perfect (excellent to stunning) on all of our TiVo's.

I already had the house wired with CAT5e to every room plus coax was already run to every room so VZ didn't have to do much more than install their equipment in the garage and connect it to one of the existing coax lines and our existing phone line. I made the VZ Westell router a bridge and am using my D-Link Xtreme N router for everything. It's on the second floor.

For bicker, I'd look into having a third party run whatever lines you may need (if you need any) and then just have VZ connect to them. It would certainly be a lot less trouble and FIOS is more than worth it IMHO. I think VZ will send someone out to look at your specific situation for free and they can certainly give you a much more informed opinion.
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:25 AM   #1848
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My installation has a splitter coming out of the ONT box. One coax leg goes to the router and the other goes to my cable splitter (for video).
The way it must work for me is that the cable coming out of the ONT gets split first, then on one of the runs, it gets split again, one side going to the router and the other side going to my TiVo S3. The other runs coming off that first splitter also will have DTAs/STBs. That will still work even though the router isn't on the same coax run as they are on, right?

Quote:
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Is there any reason why your router can't be in whatever room is adjacent to your ONT?
Typically, you don't bury your router under the foundation of the house. (It's subterranean.) Besides, I will accept nothing other than hard-wired runs from my three computers, TiVo S3, BD Live player, and printer, to my router. If the router is not in the loft, like Comcast has it, then no sale.

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Where is your router currently located?
In my loft, on the second floor, two floors above the basement.

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Originally Posted by lew View Post
Do you already have cat5 running from the room nearest the likely location of your ONT to the present location of your router?
No. That's exactly what the FiOS manager asked. Why does that matter if the router can go anywhere where there is coax???

I thought we were getting somewhere, but it sounds like there is still something to this Cat5 issue... Grrrrr
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:29 AM   #1849
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For bicker, I'd look into having a third party run whatever lines you may need (if you need any) and then just have VZ connect to them.
It isn't worth the bother or expense.

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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
It would certainly be a lot less trouble and FIOS is more than worth it IMHO.
I disagree. Talking with my co-workers who have FiOS, I'm convinced that the advantage is marginal at best. I have great service with Comcast. There is no reason to take a step down (we lose the use of our S1, and our S2 becomes less reliable because it will have to operate a box, in a room where we've had a lot of electrical interference in the past -- not to mention that FiOS costs more, because they don't offer something comparable to Digital Economy) to FiOS for television, just to gain a small improvement in HSI.

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I think VZ will send someone out to look at your specific situation for free and they can certainly give you a much more informed opinion.
No, the way it works is that you place the order, the installer comes and tells you how he's going to do the install, then, presumably you get to fight with him about it, and then you get a take-it-or-leave it choice. Unless the installer is willing to put the router in my loft without any additional expense to us, it wouldn't be worth it, and we'd all have just wasted a day. As I understand it, that's the only way it can work.
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:19 AM   #1850
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Okay, update... someone hit on why FiOS won't work in my home:

Quote:
Originally Posted by More Fiber
[Having FiOS TV as well] adds an additional complication, since you need a coax connection from the ONT to your main splitter, and then from your main splitter to each of the STBs (for TV) <b>and</b> from the Actiontec back to the main splitter for the MOCA LAN (VOD, guide data to the STBs).
So now we're back to "it won't work". This is how it must be: (showing coax runs, only)

Code:
outside -- ONT ---- splitters
                       |-------- kitchen STB
                       |-------- bedroom STB
                       |-------- splitter in Loft
                                       |----------- router
                                       |----------- CableCARD device
So there is no run back from the router to the main splitter.

So after all that, it seems like the Verizon manager I spoke to was right. FiOS won't work in my home.
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Old 11-11-2009, 07:19 AM   #1851
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I have great service with Comcast. There is no reason to take a step down (we lose the use of our S1, and our S2 becomes less reliable because it will have to operate a box, in a room where we've had a lot of electrical interference in the past -- not to mention that FiOS costs more, because they don't offer something comparable to Digital Economy) to FiOS for television, just to gain a small improvement in HSI.

FiOS is currently giving a $150 gift card to new subscribers. That should be enough to pay someone to snake cat5 or coax from your basement to your loft.

I don't think you'd be happy using a S1 or S2 box with FiOS. JMO but I think you need to include the cost of purchasing at least one other S3.

Probably not worth it to you.
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Old 11-11-2009, 07:27 AM   #1852
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Around here, no one will come out to snake wiring for just one line. It's basically "rewire a whole bunch of rooms for $500" or nothing.

My wife won't approve a major purchase, like a new TiVo HD, at this time.
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:30 AM   #1853
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Around here, no one will come out to snake wiring for just one line. It's basically "rewire a whole bunch of rooms for $500" or nothing.

My wife won't approve a major purchase, like a new TiVo HD, at this time.
I don't think FiOS makes sense for you, unless you get lucky and one of your local Sears stores has any TivoHds left. One poster just got one for $20.

I think you could split the coax from the ONT and put your FiOS router in the basement. Get a MoCA adapter (NIM100?) use it to install your N router in your loft.

There is a good chance the installer knows someone who will snake wire "on the side".

Again I don't think FiOS makes sense for you regardless.

edited to add--Verizon frequently offers new subscribers a deal on one FiOS DVR. I'm paying just over $8/month (2 year deal). Assuming your wife decides better HIS is worth it you might see what kind of deal you can get on one FiOS DVR. My FiOS DVR recorded Fringe, my tivo missed the show (and I forced a connection at 7:30p)

Last edited by lew : 11-11-2009 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:30 AM   #1854
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Quote:
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Okay, update... someone hit on why FiOS won't work in my home:

So now we're back to "it won't work". This is how it must be: (showing coax runs, only)

Code:
outside -- ONT ---- splitters
-------- kitchen STB
                       |-------- bedroom STB
                       |-------- splitter in Loft
                                       |----------- router
                                       |----------- CableCARD device
So there is no run back from the router to the main splitter.

So after all that, it seems like the Verizon manager I spoke to was right. FiOS won't work in my home.
Mine is set up like that and it works great!

I had all the coax in place when the installer arrived, so no extra charge.

Mine is like this:

Code:
outside -- ONT ---- Basement Splitter
                       |-------- 1st Floor (Free Verizon DVR)
                       |-------- Second floor splitter 
                                       |----------- Verizon STB
                                       |----------- Verizon STB
                       |-------- Third Floor splitter
                                       |----------- router
                                       |----------- Tivo HD

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Old 11-11-2009, 11:30 AM   #1855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker View Post
So now we're back to "it won't work". This is how it must be: (showing coax runs, only)

Code:
outside -- ONT ---- splitters
                       |-------- kitchen STB
                       |-------- bedroom STB
                       |-------- splitter in Loft
                                       |----------- router
                                       |----------- CableCARD device
So there is no run back from the router to the main splitter.

So after all that, it seems like the Verizon manager I spoke to was right. FiOS won't work in my home.
That will work fine. I'm not sure why you think it won't work. As long as all the coax eventually leads back to the ONT as you show you are fine.

BOb
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Old 11-11-2009, 11:35 AM   #1856
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We have the VZ FIOS bundle - TV, Broadband and phone. All work extremely well. All of the original phone wiring (from Comcast) is still in place.
That doesn't say how your phone is connected to the home/central office. The bundled price has nothing to do with the technical connections.

I would bet that your phone wiring is connected to the ONT (optical network teminal) not to the old copper NID (network interface device).

BOb
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:58 PM   #1857
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Mine is set up like that and it works great!

I had all the coax in place when the installer arrived, so no extra charge.

Mine is like this:

Code:
outside -- ONT ---- Basement Splitter
                       |-------- 1st Floor (Free Verizon DVR)
                       |-------- Second floor splitter 
                                       |----------- Verizon STB
                                       |----------- Verizon STB
                       |-------- Third Floor splitter
                                       |----------- router
                                       |----------- Tivo HD
That seems very promising. If I could get some assurance that there is a way to have a TiVo S2 drive a FiOS STB, this might still be a possibility.

One thing I'm confused about is how that third floor router manages to communicate with that second floor STB. That seems like magic to me.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:59 PM   #1858
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I don't think FiOS makes sense for you, unless you get lucky and one of your local Sears stores has any TivoHds left. One poster just got one for $20.
Maybe I should consider the Moxi HD DVR for $500?
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:02 PM   #1859
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That seems very promising. If I could get some assurance that there is a way to have a TiVo S2 drive a FiOS STB, this might still be a possibility.

One thing I'm confused about is how that third floor router manages to communicate with that second floor STB. That seems like magic to me.
They're all hooked up to the same coax. It works.
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:03 PM   #1860
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Maybe I should consider the Moxi HD DVR for $500?
Maybe you should.
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