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11-06-2009, 06:32 PM
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#121
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In Theo We Trust
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New England
Posts: 3,551
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Every time I see the Jobs at TiVo post I want to add a new entry:
Quote:
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Wanted: Engineer that can fix the annoying grey analog screen issue on the TiVo HD platform. Qualifications include a lovely singing voice as well as the ability to fog a mirror held under your nose.
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11-06-2009, 10:02 PM
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#122
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Tivonkadonk
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 215
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Software or hardware?
Any thoughts on what specifically causes this issue? I find it strange that our Tivo worked fine for two years and then 2 months ago it started. That sounds like hardware to me.
It would be nice to hear from tivo one way or the other.
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My rig: Series 2 • Series 2 + Burner • Series 3 HDTivo • Series 3 w/external drive
"Nobody looks good in high-def" - Doug Wilson-Weeds
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11-07-2009, 09:57 AM
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#123
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In Theo We Trust
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New England
Posts: 3,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshdog
Any thoughts on what specifically causes this issue? I find it strange that our Tivo worked fine for two years and then 2 months ago it started. That sounds like hardware to me.
It would be nice to hear from tivo one way or the other.
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This issue has been around for about a year now (since software verson 11 was rolled out), so chances are we're not going to hear bupkus from TiVo about it.
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11-07-2009, 01:55 PM
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#124
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Purple Ribbon Wearer
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 2,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbourgeo
This issue has been around for about a year now (since software verson 11 was rolled out), so chances are we're not going to hear bupkus from TiVo about it.
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People have been saying this, and I don't know why. This is a bug that is going to require the extensive beta testing of a full software update release. We haven't gotten an update since version 11 that introduced the bug. If we don't get a fix in the next update, *then* it's time to conclude that TiVo doesn't care about it, and complain bitterly.
Until then we can complain about the bug itself, but TiVo really hasn't had the chance to give us a fix, so complaining about their lack of attention is unsupported by the evidence.
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CrispyCritter
TiVo S2:Bob(186 hrs) Sharon(186 hours) Barney (127hrs) TiVo HDXL: Frank TiVoHD:Susan
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11-07-2009, 03:28 PM
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#125
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW VA
Posts: 2,170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCritter
.....
Until then we can complain about the bug itself, but TiVo really hasn't had the chance to give us a fix, so complaining about their lack of attention is unsupported by the evidence.
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Horsehockey.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home' - Ken Olson, DEC, 1977.
"640K ought to be enough <memory> for anybody" - Bill Gates, Microsoft,1981
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11-07-2009, 04:55 PM
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#126
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In Theo We Trust
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New England
Posts: 3,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCritter
Until then we can complain about the bug itself, but TiVo really hasn't had the chance to give us a fix, so complaining about their lack of attention is unsupported by the evidence.
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A year isn't enough time to release a fix?
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11-07-2009, 05:19 PM
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#127
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Purple Ribbon Wearer
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 2,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyK
Horsehockey.
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Such an eloquent argument!
Don't you agree that an extensive beta test is needed to test any fix for this problem? Remember that this is a problem that the 11.0 update beta test obviously did not pick up. It's a bug that affects only some HDTiVos running on analog channels. It's a major problem for some folks running analog, a minor problem for other folks with analog, and no problem at all for others running analog. How do you make sure that your fix actually works for all those folks and doesn't adversely affect others who aren't bothered by it now?
The fix should be comparatively easy - testing the fix is difficult and expensive.
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CrispyCritter
TiVo S2:Bob(186 hrs) Sharon(186 hours) Barney (127hrs) TiVo HDXL: Frank TiVoHD:Susan
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11-07-2009, 06:45 PM
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#128
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW VA
Posts: 2,170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbourgeo
A year isn't enough time to release a fix?
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Apparently, according to at least one person, a year is more than sufficient time to conceive a child, bring it to term, deliver it, and have it Christened but insufficient time to find, fix, and test a software bug that renders a product unreliable and unable to be trusted to perform it's intended function.
__________________
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home' - Ken Olson, DEC, 1977.
"640K ought to be enough <memory> for anybody" - Bill Gates, Microsoft,1981
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11-07-2009, 07:51 PM
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#129
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In Theo We Trust
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New England
Posts: 3,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyK
Apparently, according to at least one person, a year is more than sufficient time to conceive a child, bring it to term, deliver it, and have it Christened but insufficient time to find, fix, and test a software bug that renders a product unreliable and unable to be trusted to perform it's intended function.
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Well, I know that I can write lots of code in one year... 
My guess is that this is either not a priority for TiVo or the fix is not a trivial one. That still doesn't make this issue easy to live with though.
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11-07-2009, 08:03 PM
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#130
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Purple Ribbon Wearer
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 2,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyK
Apparently, according to at least one person, a year is more than sufficient time to conceive a child, bring it to term, deliver it, and have it Christened but insufficient time to find, fix, and test a software bug that renders a product unreliable and unable to be trusted to perform it's intended function.
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You ignored the direct question yet again, Roy.
Do you agree that this fix must be extensively beta-tested?
__________________
CrispyCritter
TiVo S2:Bob(186 hrs) Sharon(186 hours) Barney (127hrs) TiVo HDXL: Frank TiVoHD:Susan
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11-07-2009, 08:20 PM
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#131
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW VA
Posts: 2,170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCritter
You ignored the direct question yet again, Roy.
Do you agree that this fix must be extensively beta-tested?
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I think that ONE YEAR is MUCH too long to find and fix and, yes, extensively test a bug like this.
Of course who am I to judge -- I only have 35 years experience in writing and fielding software professionally.
__________________
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home' - Ken Olson, DEC, 1977.
"640K ought to be enough <memory> for anybody" - Bill Gates, Microsoft,1981
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11-08-2009, 01:10 AM
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#132
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Tivonkadonk
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 215
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Regardless of the amount of beta testing required, it appears that Tivo has set a low priority on this issue. If they had assigned it a high priority they likely would have commented here (Hi TivoJerry) to let us know they were looking into it.
People have said the Tivo tech support has said they are aware of the issue, but that is not the same as an acknowledgement by Tivo in the forums.
Throw us a bone Tivo, please. I'm tired of the wife complaining about shows not recording.
__________________
My rig: Series 2 • Series 2 + Burner • Series 3 HDTivo • Series 3 w/external drive
"Nobody looks good in high-def" - Doug Wilson-Weeds
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11-08-2009, 07:11 AM
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#133
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Purple Ribbon Wearer
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 2,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyK
I think that ONE YEAR is MUCH too long to find and fix and, yes, extensively test a bug like this.
Of course who am I to judge -- I only have 35 years experience in writing and fielding software professionally.
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I think the eloquence and pure logic of your arguments speak for themselves.
(I note that once again you did not answer the direct question.)
__________________
CrispyCritter
TiVo S2:Bob(186 hrs) Sharon(186 hours) Barney (127hrs) TiVo HDXL: Frank TiVoHD:Susan
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11-08-2009, 08:34 AM
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#134
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW VA
Posts: 2,170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCritter
I think the eloquence and pure logic of your arguments speak for themselves.
(I note that once again you did not answer the direct question.)
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Because I don't answer sucker questions.
__________________
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home' - Ken Olson, DEC, 1977.
"640K ought to be enough <memory> for anybody" - Bill Gates, Microsoft,1981
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11-08-2009, 09:55 AM
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#135
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In Theo We Trust
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New England
Posts: 3,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCritter
Do you agree that this fix must be extensively beta-tested?
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Of course it should. But as RoyK alluded to, the first post about this issue in this thread is from 12/11/2008.
Are you saying that spending a month or two identifying the issue, coding a fix, and performing internal testing before 10+ months of beta testing isn't sufficient?
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11-08-2009, 11:54 AM
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#136
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Tivonkadonk
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbourgeo
Of course it should. But as RoyK alluded to, the first post about this issue in this thread is from 12/11/2008.
Are you saying that spending a month or two identifying the issue, coding a fix, and performing internal testing before 10+ months of beta testing isn't sufficient?
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I know I'm not supposed to say this, but right now I don't really care. I have participated in several Tivo Betas and they don't take 10 months. Even a really, really long one is only 7 months.
If Tivo was interested in this issue it would have been solved by now.
__________________
My rig: Series 2 • Series 2 + Burner • Series 3 HDTivo • Series 3 w/external drive
"Nobody looks good in high-def" - Doug Wilson-Weeds
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11-08-2009, 12:27 PM
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#137
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Purple Ribbon Wearer
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 2,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbourgeo
Of course it should. But as RoyK alluded to, the first post about this issue in this thread is from 12/11/2008.
Are you saying that spending a month or two identifying the issue, coding a fix, and performing internal testing before 10+ months of beta testing isn't sufficient?
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What I'm saying is that the type of beta-test needed for an issue like this (that affects only a small percentage of folks, and is probably signal related to some degree since we here have never been able to figure out why some folks have it and some don't) is one that involves many hundreds of beta testers over an extended period of time (lots of folks like me have problems only once every 2-3 weeks).
TiVo is a small company. It doesn't have the man-power and resources to have a separate huge beta for every bug. It doesn't have a continuous beta like big companies can afford.
Spending potentially over a hundred thousand dollars *extra* in order to speed up a fix of a bug that affects maybe 2-3% of their users by six months is a lot.
Some bugs can be fixed with a cheap beta - this isn't one of them, given how little we understand it.
__________________
CrispyCritter
TiVo S2:Bob(186 hrs) Sharon(186 hours) Barney (127hrs) TiVo HDXL: Frank TiVoHD:Susan
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11-08-2009, 12:40 PM
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#138
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Purple Ribbon Wearer
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 2,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyK
Because I don't answer sucker questions.
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And what exactly makes it a sucker question, Roy?
__________________
CrispyCritter
TiVo S2:Bob(186 hrs) Sharon(186 hours) Barney (127hrs) TiVo HDXL: Frank TiVoHD:Susan
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11-08-2009, 02:51 PM
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#139
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In Theo We Trust
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New England
Posts: 3,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCritter
What I'm saying is that the type of beta-test needed for an issue like this (that affects only a small percentage of folks, and is probably signal related to some degree since we here have never been able to figure out why some folks have it and some don't) is one that involves many hundreds of beta testers over an extended period of time (lots of folks like me have problems only once every 2-3 weeks).
TiVo is a small company. It doesn't have the man-power and resources to have a separate huge beta for every bug. It doesn't have a continuous beta like big companies can afford.
Spending potentially over a hundred thousand dollars *extra* in order to speed up a fix of a bug that affects maybe 2-3% of their users by six months is a lot.
Some bugs can be fixed with a cheap beta - this isn't one of them, given how little we understand it.
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I guess your speculation is as good as anyone else's...
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11-09-2009, 06:42 PM
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#140
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW VA
Posts: 2,170
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Lost another one to gray screen today.....
(S2 on the same splitter had no problem with the same program at the same time)
__________________
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home' - Ken Olson, DEC, 1977.
"640K ought to be enough <memory> for anybody" - Bill Gates, Microsoft,1981
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