Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

[CraigK]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

Thanks. I'll update the noise rating in the first chart.

How would you describe the Seagate ST31000322CS relative to the original TivoHD drive: less noticeable, about the same, or more noticeable?

Noise on the Seagate ST31000322CS is much more noticeable than the original TiVo HD WD1600AVBS. Never really heard the original drives. Neither of our TiVo HDs are in a bedroom so it's never completely quiet. The Seagate would drive me crazy if I were trying to sleep in the same room.

Originally Posted by bkdtv

If the original TiVo drive is an 8 or 8.5 and the WD10EVDS is a 10, how would you rank the ST31000322CS?

7 I guess.

I wouldn't recommend it. I didn't read the FAQ carefully enough and thought the Seagate was adjustable as well as the WD. I probably got it mixed up with Hitachi in that regard.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by lrhorer

Um, huh? Are you saying there are no other drives which exhibit a reboot failure with a THD? That may be. Certainly there are drives which work with a hard reboot but fail a soft reboot on the S3. I also posted This message concerning the Hitachi Deskstar 500G which will not boot at all in a THD.

In the context of answering Lou's question I was saying that AFAIK there was only the one instance of a WD10EVVS exhibiting a soft reboot failure in a TiVo HD, not that there weren't other drives that didn't work in TiVo HD's. As you and I have both pointed out, there are.

[dnorth12]

Originally Posted by richsadams

Not sure about the "popcorn" transfer. I use two very reliable programs...iTiVo for transfers to my Mac and PyTiVoX to transfer recordings, etc. to TiVo. The folks that designed those programs are regulars here and there are support threads for both programs.

TiVo Desktop for Mac does not work w/Snow Leopard yet. TiVo says they are working on it, but no one knows when it will be available. There's a thread about it, but mostly it's just folks complaining. TiVo has something on their web site saying that they are aware of the issue and are working on it. In the meantime PyTiVoX should work to transfer recordings back when you get your new drive.

Enjoy!

Rich,

Got PyTiVoX installed and can see the files from the S3 that are on the iMac.
Haven't tried a transfer yet back to the tivo as I am madly going the other direction in prep for the new drive.

Just one more question, I hope. The file names I see on the mac in the S3 NPL have underscores as placeholders for word spaces. Is that something you see and do they go away after transfer to the Tivo? I am using Tivo transfer to bring them over to the mac from the tivo, maybe that has something to do with it.

for example: Saving_Private_Ryan_other_info

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by dnorth12

Just one more question, I hope. The file names I see on the mac in the S3 NPL have underscores as placeholders for word spaces. Is that something you see and do they go away after transfer to the Tivo? I am using Tivo transfer to bring them over to the mac from the tivo, maybe that has something to do with it.

for example: Saving_Private_Ryan_other_info

Hmmm...not sure about the underscores. Whenever I've created videos I always add them (old Linux habits die hard) but I'm not sure they are required or if they are dropped when recordings are transferred back (as I haven't had the occasion to move recordings back and forth). Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can answer. Or better yet you might want to post over in the PyTiVoX thread where the authors are sure to chime in.

[prpjam]

Is the maximum supported capacity related to Tivo software? I am wondering if the maximum capacity might change on a semi-annual software update by Tivo.

I think that I read that Tivo could update the software on Series 2 Dual Tuners and HD Tivos, but have not chosen to do so.

I am about to buy 1.5 TB drives to maximize capacity to 1.1 TB or 1.26 TB, but I would buy even larger capacity drives if I thought that Tivo would change its software.

[Laserfan]

Hey bkdtv, thanks for all the good info. You should change the title of your thread tho to include the word "backup"--I did not easily find it when I came here searching for a way to proactively backup my TiVo hard drives (in case of hd failure).

[bkdtv]

Originally Posted by prpjam

Is the maximum supported capacity related to Tivo software? I am wondering if the maximum capacity might change on a semi-annual software update by Tivo.

The maximum capacity allowed by end-user upgrades is limited by available tools, although the TiVo software is also a factor. The TiVo software includes a SATA driver that only supports up to 1.0TiB (1.1TB) per partition.

WinMFS expands another existing partition by to 1.0TiB (1.1TB), therefore increasing stock capacity by that amount. If TiVo were to update their software with a new SATA driver, then spike2k (the author of WinMFS) could update his program to use more than that.

[actorguy1]

Sorry if this has already been asked many times. I only have a Mac desktop and a windows netbook. I am interested in expanding the internal hard drive on my Tivo HD. The current step by step instructions are for PCs with windows. Where is the best place for a step by step tutorial for Macs. Thanks in advance.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by actorguy1

Sorry if this has already been asked many times. I only have a Mac desktop and a windows netbook. I am interested in expanding the internal hard drive on my Tivo HD. The current step by step instructions are for PCs with windows. Where is the best place for a step by step tutorial for Macs. Thanks in advance.

Unfortunately the recommended program, winMFS, doesn't have a Mac counterpart (maybe there'll be a "macMFS" one day). I keep a PC I built around for just this reason. That said it can be done using winMFS and a virtual PC program such as VMWare Fusion or Parallels to accomplish the upgrade.

Here's a post from one successful member (note the warning in the second to last paragraph):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...03#post7443603

Here's a member that used Bootcamp to do his upgrade:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...00#post7542000

Of course those methods require a copy of Windows.

Here's another post on a blog by someone using a virtual machine:

http://www.furrygoat.com/2009/01/20/...rtual-machine/

Here's the link to the original Series2 upgrade method the post above refers to...saying that it works for Series3's as well:

http://wingedpower.com/2008/02/upgra...mwares-fusion/

Otherwise you'll need to find a good friend with a PC or you could try it with your netbook. It seems like it would work using winMFS and the laptop instructions (USB adapter, etc.) in the first post. I don't know of anyone that's done it but if it works please let us know.

Hope that helps and happy upgrading!

[flatcurve]

Okay, so we've got some WD drives in for testing. Could somebody explain this "soft reboot" issue to me like I was five? I think I understand it, but I want to know how to reliably reproduce the problem so I can thoroughly test them out.

ETA: Also, if I understand the problem correctly, then I should run into the soft reboot issue right away if I'm using a drive that was restored with an image that was in clear & delete mode, correct? because it reboots right after clearing & deleting. Please let me know if otherwise.

Thanks!

[richsadams]

The "soft reboot" issue means that TiVo will hang at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen when it is either actively restarted by the user or passively such as a power failure or software upgrade. It generally appears only with TiVo Series3's and specific hard drives such as the WD10EADS.

To test for a soft reboot problem simply restart TiVo after a hard drive upgrade using the on-screen menus:

Messages and Settings > Restart or Reset System > Restart the TiVo DVR

A "hard reboot" refers to disconnecting TiVo's power cord (waiting 10 seconds for the hard drive to spin down) and then plugging it back in.

TiVo's that display the soft reboot issue will restart properly with a hard reboot.

Yes, if the issue exists it should occur after a C&D.

[flatcurve]

Originally Posted by richsadams

The "soft reboot" issue means that TiVo will hang at the Welcome! Powering up screen when it is either actively restarted by the user or passively such as a power failure or software upgrade.

But not the "Almost there. Just a few minutes more..." screen?

[bkdtv]

Originally Posted by flatcurve

But not the "Almost there. Just a few minutes more..." screen?

Don't worry about where it hangs, only whether it hangs.

If you can completely reboot your TiVo using Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset TiVo, then your drive doesn't exhibit the "soft reboot" issue. If such a reboot is unsuccessful, then it does suffer from the "soft reboot" problem.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by flatcurve

But not the "Almost there. Just a few minutes more..." screen?

Yes AFAIK. I don't recall anyone saying that it would get past the welcome screen.

What bkdtv said in any case.

[jlib]

Originally Posted by richsadams

The "soft reboot" issue means that TiVo will hang at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen when it is either actively restarted by the user or passively such as a power failure or software upgrade...

I wouldn't include a power failure since that is more akin to a hard reboot so the symptoms would not be expected then.

[tivoupgrade]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

Don't worry about where it hangs, only whether it hangs.

If you can completely reboot your TiVo using Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset TiVo, then your drive doesn't exhibit the "soft reboot" issue. If such a reboot is unsuccessful, then it does suffer from the "soft reboot" problem.

Originally Posted by richsadams

Yes AFAIK. I don't recall anyone saying that it would get past the welcome screen.

What bkdtv said in any case.

Ok, early indications are that the most recent build of the EVDS are not going to be a problem on the Series3 or TiVo HD. There is one situation where we had a problem, and we still have to run a few tests next week, but I don't think it's going to be an issue.

WD10EVDS-63N5B1
October 23rd 2009
DCM HBRNYHT2MFB

Lou

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by tivoupgrade

Ok, early indications are that the most recent build of the EVDS are not going to be a problem on the Series3 or TiVo HD. There is one situation where we had a problem, and we still have to run a few tests next week, but I don't think it's going to be an issue.

WD10EVDS-63N5B1
October 23rd 2009
DCM HBRNYHT2MFB

Lou

Good news!

[dnorth12]

I am bleary eyed from copying all the recordings to my iMac off my S3/Arpicorn 500G combo, but I am also almost done. Been using Tivo transfer under Popcorn 3 to batch copy.

Not looking forward to copying back to the new S3/MyDVR 1TB. Not wanting to have to pull one by one from the iMac. Would be nice to have a batch push to the S3. Another six to seven days copying back, probably more since I can't batch it like I did on the copying, oh joy.

Tivo transfer under Popcorn 3 doesn't seem have a routine to push the files back. According to a Roxio email response to a question I posed, a Popcorn 4 upgrade would have that function. But when I emailed a question to Roxio about Popcorn 3 having the function, I got no answer. Hmmm. Do they just want me to upgrade?

So I had a thought/wish/pipedream and probably not a clue but can't I just now take the .tivo files that are copied to my iMac and copy them to the MyDVR and then plug that in to the S3 and off I go?

Probably not, drm issues or file structure that is not in place until the S3 and the MyDVR are married or some other reason. Does it have to be striped across both drives in order to play?

[moscovitzd]

So now that they've been out for awhile are there any reports of problems with using a WD15EVDS in a TivoHD (TCD652160)?

[mellenfan]

Any solution on getting the wd10eads to work on Tivo HD. This problem seems to have appeared with the recently built models of the drives.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by mellenfan

Any solution on getting the wd10eads to work on Tivo HD. This problem seems to have appeared with the recently built models of the drives.

Where did you hear that? AFAIK the WD10EADS works without any issues in TiVo HD's. They do exhibit the soft reboot issue in Series3 models, but no problems w/TiVo HD's.

Perhaps you're confusing the WD10EADS with the WD10EVVS?

[mellenfan]

Originally Posted by richsadams

Where did you hear that? AFAIK the WD10EADS works without any issues in TiVo HD's. They do exhibit the soft reboot issue in Series3 models, but no problems w/TiVo HD's.

Perhaps you're confusing the WD10EADS with the WD10EVVS?

I have a fresh batch of wd10eads that soft reboot in the HD. I have customers reporting the same issue for machines that I upgraded for them.

Check MFSLive for other posts with same issue...

[mellenfan]

Originally Posted by mellenfan

I have a fresh batch of wd10eads that soft reboot in the HD. I have customers reporting the same issue for machines that I upgraded for them.

Check MFSLive for other posts with same issue...

http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewto...c5145&start=15

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by mellenfan

http://www.mfslive.org/forums/viewto...c5145&start=15

Originally Posted by mellenfan

I have a fresh batch of wd10eads that soft reboot in the HD. I have customers reporting the same issue for machines that I upgraded for them.

Check MFSLive for other posts with same issue...

Interesting. To be clear, do you mean that you have a batch of WD10EADS that are displaying the soft reboot issue? (TiVo HD hangs on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen when using a menu restart.) If so, can you post the drive details?

I'm subscribed to the thread on Spike's forum and saw one post:

I got reports of EADS models w/ Aug, 09 or later date stamps. I guess the problem spread to EVVS models

It's not clear if he's talking about an issue with TiVo HD's or Series3's though. Guess you'd have to ask him.

In any case, IIRC no one here has mentioned a soft reboot issue with the WD10EADS installed internally in a TiVo HD. But if there is an issue we should certainly discuss it.

Anyone here experiencing this problem? If so, can you post details (ideally the drive manufacture date, DCM, etc.) but if you can't get inside your TiVo at least when you upgraded? TIA.

[wgw]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

Don't worry about where it hangs, only whether it hangs.

If you can completely reboot your TiVo using Messages & Settings -> Restart or Reset TiVo, then your drive doesn't exhibit the "soft reboot" issue. If such a reboot is unsuccessful, then it does suffer from the "soft reboot" problem.

Just an FYI, the WD15EVDS will successfully soft boot ONE time after a hard boot on the S3. A second immediate soft boot will fail. Be sure to try consecutive soft boots before declaring a drive free from the soft boot issue.

[freqseeker]

Originally Posted by richsadams

It's not clear if he's talking about an issue with TiVo HD's or Series3's though. Guess you'd have to ask him.

In any case, IIRC no one here has mentioned a soft reboot issue with the WD10EADS installed internally in a TiVo HD. But if there is an issue we should certainly discuss it.

Anyone here experiencing this problem? If so, can you post details (ideally the drive manufacture date, DCM, etc.) but if you can't get inside your TiVo at least when you upgraded? TIA.

I can confirm the soft reboot issue using the WD10EADS.
From the drive:
S/N:WCAV50898309
MDL: WD10EADS-00M2BO
DATE: 07 Aug 2009
DCM: HANCNV2MGB

Until reading the latest posts I didn't know it had the problem. I tried two times to reboot from the Tivo menu, and both times it stuck on the "Powering Up" screen. I only waited about 15 minutes before doing the hard reboot which works fine. No other problems noted.

I don't think it is a big deal for me because the power cord is easy to reach.
Will the tivo notify of a update, or will it try to reboot and hang on the powering up screen? If it does try to reboot and it hangs on the powering up screen then future recordings will not record until a hard reboot is performed.

This is a Tivo HD TCD652160. The drive is mounted internally.

Vince.

[MPSAN]

Originally Posted by freqseeker

I can confirm the soft reboot issue using the WD10EADS.
From the drive:
S/N:WCAV50898309
MDL: WD10EADS-00M2BO
DATE: 07 Aug 2009
DCM: HANCNV2MGB

Until reading the latest posts I didn't know it had the problem. I tried two times to reboot from the Tivo menu, and both times it stuck on the "Powering Up" screen. I only waited about 15 minutes before doing the hard reboot which works fine. No other problems noted.

I don't think it is a big deal for me because the power cord is easy to reach.
Will the tivo notify of a update, or will it try to reboot and hang on the powering up screen? If it does try to reboot and it hangs on the powering up screen then future recordings will not record until a hard reboot is performed.

This is a Tivo HD TCD652160. The drive is mounted internally.

Vince.

...and the 00M2B0 is a 2 platter drive as well.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by freqseeker

I can confirm the soft reboot issue using the WD10EADS.
From the drive:
S/N:WCAV50898309
MDL: WD10EADS-00M2BO
DATE: 07 Aug 2009
DCM: HANCNV2MGB

Until reading the latest posts I didn't know it had the problem. I tried two times to reboot from the Tivo menu, and both times it stuck on the "Powering Up" screen. I only waited about 15 minutes before doing the hard reboot which works fine. No other problems noted.

I don't think it is a big deal for me because the power cord is easy to reach.
Will the tivo notify of a update, or will it try to reboot and hang on the powering up screen? If it does try to reboot and it hangs on the powering up screen then future recordings will not record until a hard reboot is performed.

This is a Tivo HD TCD652160. The drive is mounted internally.

Vince.

Thanks for that ...good to know. Looks like the first post needs to be modified once again! Wonder why WD feels the need to keep changing things. If they're going to modify the firmware, etc. they should change the drive number IMHO.

So going forward the WD10EADS and WD10EVVS are to be avoided. That leaves the WD10EVDS the only recommended WD hard drive for Series3's and TiVo HD's.

TiVo software/firmware upgrades (generally once per quarter at most) are downloaded and subsequently installed at 2 a.m. local time and then TiVo will reboot. Those with the soft reboot issue will hang at the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. Nothing will be recorded, etc. until a hard reboot (pull the plug) is performed. If folks with the soft reboot issue can live with that it shouldn't be a big deal.

[jlib]

Originally Posted by freqseeker

I can confirm the soft reboot issue using the WD10EADS... Will the tivo notify of a update, or will it try to reboot and hang on the powering up screen? If it does try to reboot and it hangs on the powering up screen then future recordings will not record until a hard reboot is performed.

I can't remember exactly where but on one of the system information screens it will say "pending restart" when a system update has been downloaded and is ready to be installed. So, whenever I hear of new system updates being distributed I start checking that page before shutting down for the night and manually reboot if pending.

Auto reboots are supposed to occur in the wee hours so that means you should check in the morning to make sure it is not hung. An S3 will tell you on the panel it is hung. With an HD I guess you would need to turn on the TV to see. System updates are not very frequent so it is not much more than a minor annoyance. There is no other effect on performance.

[richsadams]

Originally Posted by jlib

I can't remember exactly where but on one of the system information screens it will say "pending restart" when a system update has been downloaded and is ready to be installed. So, whenever I hear of new system updates being distributed I start checking that page before shutting down for the night and manually reboot if pendiing.

That's good advice for anyone with the soft reboot problem. If you're aware an update has been released into the wild you can check the "Last status" line on the Network Connection screen or the System Information screen. If it says "Pending restart" you can pull the plug, wait ten seconds and plug it back in. TiVo will perform the update immediately and once completed attempt to reboot. Once it's cycled to the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen you can pull the plug and plug it back in again to make things right.