Questions about the new 2010 Tivo boxes...

[shibby191]

Originally Posted by GKevinK

I've gotten used to scheduling my TiVo's online, and was a little surprised when I first tried to use the scheduling feature on directv.com that they wanted extra $ per month for the feature.

That's incorrect. There is no extra charge for online scheduling. And it works with both DirecTivo's (at least the HR10) and the DirecTV DVR Plus line.

[stevel]

Remote scheduling is free.

[GKevinK]

Heh... I don't know what path to scheduling I tried before, but it definitely kicked me to a service upgrade page. I just went to the website and was able to schedule successfully this time - so it's a mystery where I went before. (shrug)

[sjberra]

Originally Posted by GKevinK

I've gotten used to scheduling my TiVo's online, and was a little surprised when I first tried to use the scheduling feature on directv.com that they wanted extra $ per month for the feature.

have scheduled through the website and the Iphone app and have never seen any additional charges on my bill, it stays exactly the same every month

[bengalfreak]

Originally Posted by GKevinK

I've gotten used to scheduling my TiVo's online, and was a little surprised when I first tried to use the scheduling feature on directv.com that they wanted extra $ per month for the feature.

There is no charge for online scheduling via DirecTV.com.

[TyroneShoes]

Originally Posted by GKevinK

I've gotten used to scheduling my TiVo's online, and was a little surprised when I first tried to use the scheduling feature on directv.com that they wanted extra $ per month for the feature.

If you changed your package, that could have triggered a change. Older packages are grandfathered until you add or drop service, which places the new rates and package structures in place (something they changed about 18-24 months ago). The scheduling portal itself is free.

[TyroneShoes]

Originally Posted by shaown

I have nothing bad to say about the HD DVR+ platform, but I am SHOCKED you would compare a HR10 to a HR20/21 and consider that to be a fair comparison. HR10s are running what 6.xx version of Tivo SW, compared to what 11.xx on Series 3 platforms? That is an incredibly old baseline!!!...

Oh if only it were a numbers game. If it were, Spinal Tap turning their amps up to "11" would have been more than simply a dead-on mocking of numbers games. By that measure, the HR2x's 0x0368 is a much higher number than a mere "11.xx", so using your logic, it must be hundreds of times more advanced.

And, BTW, any comparison of any current DVRs is a fair comparison. It's not like I didn't qualify that with their history. The fact remains they are all valid and available now, and in wide use.

When the last release was and how many there have been are also both beside the point. On one extreme, DISH DVRs used to have a new release every other week, because they were in flopsweat mode desperately trying to fix bad software after the fact. That does not make the fact that they had a lot of releases important in the least. On the other extreme, Tivo stayed at 2.0, and later at 3.1 for years each time, specifically because they worked and there was no need to up rev them. Timelines are not the measure.

What matters is none of that, but a feature comparison and how important and significant each of those features really are. The HR10 was well-advanced beyond anything else in its day, but has arguably been caught and passed by the HR2x. Even as a "dead" platform, the HR10 is still eminently useful and still holds its own; there are legions of diehards that refuse to give it up to this day. So it can be regarded as "old", but in many ways matches both the Tivo HD and the HR2x, both much more current platforms, especially in core features.

Regardless of whether the last release was last year or yesterday, there really isn't a significant difference between the three platforms, other than only one of them can get significant HD from DTV.

Originally Posted by shaown

...When Tivo releases a new version for DirectTV, I'm sure they will base it on a Series 3 or 4 platform, and roll up whatever features DirectTV allows them to...

I could not even begin to guess where that logic comes from or speculate what you might have pulled it out of. I'm sure none of us really has a clue, but this sounds quite a bit more clueless than other speculation I have seen. Most folks figure it will be an evolutionary step above the Tivo HD, minus any features that DTV sees as competitive to their service. It would need to have at least an equivalent feature set, and probably a unique and significant feature set to be considered "premium" compared to where the HR2x will be by then.

Originally Posted by shaown

...Features not present in a HR10 but available in current Tivos includes (but is not limited to) support for MRV (transfer between Tivos), TivoToGo (download video to PCs), YouTube playback, Amazon VOD, NetFlix support, Blockbuster Support, The new HD Tivo Search/Swivel Search like functionality, Ability to run HME apps including order Pizza, Weather, Yahoo, etc, etc, Support for Web Videos, ability to schedule remotely via tivo.com, ability to see your to-do/now playing lists remotely (I think), and finally hardware abilities like the ability to use external storage via eSata and wireless adaptors via usb. There are many other improvements from Version 6 to Version 11.x that I am sure I have missed on UI, etc, etc.

-Shaown

Well, now I'm the one who's "shocked"; shocked that you regard any of these as significant features. They all seem to be window dressing and have little to do with functionality, reliability, ergonomics or the core tasks of recording and playing back programs that most subscribers care about. Being able to do non-DVR tasks that I have been able to do all along with my computer or phone doesn't seem to have a lot of drool factor; I couldn't give two $#!+s about most of that. About the only thing significant beyond the old HR10 in your list is eSATA connectivity, and you still need a much larger drive for the Tivo HD than you do for the HR2x to store the same amount of content.

The HR2x has had many of these listed "features" all along (with others in the pipeline), while the Tivo HD seems to have few if any of the actually truly helpful and clever features the HR2x has.

[rv65]

The next gen DirecTivo will actually be a software download. This will be launched along side DirecTV's next gen DVR platform. I believe the Tivo software only works on the next gen DVR and not the current HR boxes. The next gen boxes can run either Tivo or D* software. The next gen boxes will have a better CPU and more RAM. It should come out 1Q10.

[HiDefGator]

Originally Posted by rv65

The next gen DirecTivo will actually be a software download. This will be launched along side DirecTV's next gen DVR platform. I believe the Tivo software only works on the next gen DVR and not the current HR boxes. The next gen boxes can run either Tivo or D* software. The next gen boxes will have a better CPU and more RAM. It should come out 1Q10.

I will be surprised if you can switch between the two (D* or Tivo) after you get the DVR installed. It'll be cool if they can do it.

[shaown]

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

Oh if only it were a numbers game. If it were, Spinal Tap turning their amps up to "11" would have been more than simply a dead-on mocking of numbers games. By that measure, the HR2x's 0x0368 is a much higher number than a mere "11.xx", so using your logic, it must be hundreds of times more advanced.
.

Its not a numbers game, as a Tivo User since 2001, owning Series 1 and S2 boxes (Standalone and DirecTivo), a HR10-250, a Series 3, and now a Tivo HD, I've seen substansial change from the 2.x platform I started with to the 11.x base today. I'd say from the 6.x to 11.x has been pretty major

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

What matters is none of that, but a feature comparison and how important and significant each of those features really are. The HR10 was well-advanced beyond anything else in its day, but has arguably been caught and passed by the HR2x. Even as a "dead" platform, the HR10 is still eminently useful and still holds its own; there are legions of diehards that refuse to give it up to this day. So it can be regarded as "old", but in many ways matches both the Tivo HD and the HR2x, both much more current platforms, especially in core features.

I disagree. The HR10 was not that impressive when launched. In fact it was mediocre. I paid 999 for it on day one and loved it because it did what I wanted, but it basically had no functionality over existing Series 2 boxes except HD support. How was that "advanced beyond anything else in its day"
It was basically tacking on HD support to existing DirectTivo boxes.

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

I could not even begin to guess where that logic comes from or speculate what you might have pulled it out of. I'm sure none of us really has a clue, but this sounds quite a bit more clueless than other speculation I have seen.

It comes from basic common sense. Tivo has two choices, build a common OS based on what it has, or build something from scratch. They will almost certainly build an OS based on they have, which is what the Series 3 boxes run. I guess third choice is resurrect a dead codebase and rerelease a Series 2 bases OS/box, but I imagine the chance of that is near zero. HW certainly can vary, but as you can see from Comcast Tivo, its only a question of what features DirectTV decided they allow/want.

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

Well, now I'm the one who's "shocked"; shocked that you regard any of these as significant features. They all seem to be window dressing and have little to do with functionality, reliability, ergonomics or the core tasks of recording and playing back programs that most subscribers care about.

Oh I did not say they are all significant. but "any" ??? I find ethernet connectivity to be great, I love MRV (I transfer shows upstairs all the time, I love TivoToGo, on a business trip right now and have a dozen shows with me, I do use the Amazon VOD service pretty frequently, in HD and SD. These are major feature over a HR10. Some of the other stuff is window dressing, but I wasn't try to only list the features important to me, but the ones I could think of that have been added. BTW, I also do enjoy the new Tivo Search UI, try it, its great.

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

The HR2x has had many of these listed "features" all along (with others in the pipeline), while the Tivo HD seems to have few if any of the actually truly helpful and clever features the HR2x has.

As I said before, I have nothing bad to say about HR2x. This post started by asking what a new DirectTivo in 2010 might look like. I was reacting to your comparison of a HR10 to a HR20. I'd compare a S3 or Tivo HD to a HR2x to get more reasonable idea of that.

[Syzygy]

Originally Posted by TyroneShoes

... there really are only four things about my HR10-250's that I prefer over the HR20's:

1) Slo-mo is implemented slightly better on the HR10

2) Playlist sorting is done slightly better...

Item #1 is a totally unbelievable claim -- so different from reality that it renders anything you post similarly untrustworthy. Surely you know (but some readers of this thread may not) that Slo-mo on the HR10 is simply a button that always works without fail, while on the HR2x it's implemented as a press-and-hold function that's so difficult to use that several people have written they just ignore the feature and pretend that it's not available at all. In general, all of the HR2x's press-and-hold functions work only sometimes; when they work, they take way too long to engage; and they sometimes engage when you don't want them to.

[Syzygy]

BTW, we've learned from http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167435 that the possible new box that can run both the unreliable DVR+ software and the new TiVo software may be designated HR24-500. If so, soon we'll have to stop referring to the bad software as "the HR2x software." "HR2x" will come to refer only to the hardware series, and will become less and less useful as differences emerge between the HR24 and, say, the HR23.

I think I'll be calling the bad software DVR- or --DVR, a play on DirecTV's marketing moniker, DVR+. Or maybe DVR"+", using one standard meaning of quotes: Someone said it, I didn't; you should take it with a grain of salt.

[litzdog911]

Originally Posted by Syzygy

BTW, we've learned from http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=167435 that the possible new box that can run both the unreliable DVR+ software and the new TiVo software may be designated HR24-500. If so, soon we'll have to stop referring to the bad software as "the HR2x software." "HR2x" will come to refer only to the hardware series, and will become less and less useful as differences emerge between the HR24 and, say, the HR23.

I think I'll be calling the bad software DVR- or --DVR, a play on DirecTV's marketing moniker, DVR+. Or maybe DVR"+", using one standard meaning of quotes: Someone said it, I didn't; you should take it with a grain of salt.

The HR24 is NOT the new DirecTV/Tivo HD DVR.

[Syzygy]

Originally Posted by litzdog911

The HR24 is NOT the new DirecTV/Tivo HD DVR.

I bow to your nearly 11,000 posts. But how do you know? Or, rather, what do you know? Dish, plz!

[litzdog911]

Can't really say how I know.

[Syzygy]

Originally Posted by litzdog911

Can't really say how I know.

OK, I get it. "I've already said too much."

[dirk1843]

You know what I would be happy with in D* TiVo??

An HR10-250 that was MPEG4 compatible.

It worked, had everything most of the users needed....how hard could it be to port that over to MPEG4?? I was happy with mine, and with D*......until they changed formats.

[Syzygy]

Originally Posted by dirk1843

You know what I would be happy with in D* TiVo??

An HR10-250 that was MPEG4 compatible...

+1

[TexasGrillChef]

Originally Posted by sublimnl

I have been struggling with Comcast just so that I can have my TivoHD and have just about had enough of it all. Its been a year and they still can't get all of my channels working at the same time. Pathetic.

As such, I am considering switching back to DTV (used to have a hacked directivo around 04/05), but I cannot give up some of the features that I currently have with my TiVoHD - namely, multiroom viewing, Audio/Video streaming from my PC to the TiVo, and Amazon/Netflix VOD. I know the Amazon/Netflix support is a real longshot given that DTV has their own PPV service, so maybe this one I can live without, though the wife wouldn't like it.

So, some questions...

1. Will the new TiVo be a brand new hardware platform, or just software loaded on an existing DTV box?

2. If it is software then would I be able to buy an HR21 today and upgrade to the TiVo environment later on?

3. I see that DTV has the MediaShare and MRV features now on their own receivers. Are we expecting that they will allow TiVo to do the same with their OS?

4. The HR21 has DLNA support, which is a welcome change from having to use TiVo Desktop Plus, which is dog slow at transcoding video on my home network (PlayOn works great when transcoding the same content from the same machine for streaming HD content to my PS3, so the Tivo desktop software has to take the blame here). Do we know if the Tivo box will also support DLNA, or will we be forced to use their proprietary software?

5. Is there anything concrete out there as far as features we can expect?


Thanks in advance for help on these questions! I'm really hoping to get away from Comcast with the quickness, so I'm hoping for good news!

Uknown about the future TiVo boxes...

However... with or without TiVo... if you decide you want a Blu-ray Player.

The LG BD390 is wonderfull, It has VUDU, NETFLIX, DLNA client capability and works as Network media player, has a usb port for NTFS formated drives up to 2TB. It also supports BD-Live and BD Bonusview.

Netflix on it is much better than netflix on the TiVo, Not as good as the interface on the Xbox 360 though. The VUDU interface is identical to all the others. (Although lately the BD-390 VUDU hasn't been upgraded with the latest VUDU feature set yet).

Very nice single unit box, all in a blu-ray player. Still though... Be nice to have TiVo on DirecTV I am sure.

I left DirecTV when I finanly upgrade to HD because at that time DirecTV didn't have a TiVO HD box!

TGC

[TyroneShoes]

Originally Posted by shaown

I disagree...I paid 999 for it on day one and loved it because it did what I wanted, but it basically had no functionality over existing Series 2 boxes except HD support. How was that "advanced beyond anything else in its day"
It was basically tacking on HD support to existing DirectTivo boxes...

The answer is pretty simple:

The Series 2 boxes themselves were "advanced beyond anything else" in their day. DISH and cable DVRs were seriously not in Tivo's league. But, they all did the same basic job of recording, so while advanced over all competitors, there was nothing all that unique. The Series 2 was a Mercedes among Camrys.

But there were chief differences with the HR10 that elevated its status. If, as you wrongly claim, all they did was tack on HD capability, (which was NOT AT ALL the case -- OTA recording of HD was a very significant brand-new feature in 2003), they still would have been far-and-away the most advanced platform. But in 2003 there was only a handful of cable and DBS HD channels and few-if-any local channels in HD on cable or DBS. More importantly, there were limited options to record them.

Even more importantly, back in that day, the HR10 was, in fact, just about the only option for recording HD content OTA, and certainly significantly advanced over cable and DISH offerings, both in platform and HD content of significance. Cable took their sweet time adding even the locals in HD, and more and more DBS customers were having their distant nets shut off every day (DISH still doesn't serve very many HD markets with very many local HD channels, comparatively speaking, as does DTV). If you wanted HD for network TV (which was where 95% of HD was and where 98% of either popular or decent HD programming was in 2003), The Tivo HR10 HD "Mercedes" now had the open road pretty much all to itself.

Sony had a primitive stand-alone recorder, overpriced and underpowered, but there was little else. To have HD recording capability from DBS in the DTivo bit-bucket format that also recorded HD from local channels was unmatched anywhere for years. And THAT, is why it was advanced beyond anything in its day; advanced platform to start with, with near-exclusive access to where the desired HD content was. If you had an HDTV in 2003 and didn't have a HR10, you were running to the bathroom and making sandwiches during the commercial breaks, just like your grandparents in 1973.

The HR10 was the premiere HD recording platform, unrivaled, for quite some time. DISH eventually put something out, but nothing of note. Cable HD DVRs are still fairly pitiful. The HR10 was reliable, ergonomically friendly, expandable, and eventually, affordable. Those were attributes not found anywhere else in 2003, and actually there were no significant competitors until the HR2x platform settled down and the Tivo HD finally shipped. Things have changed, but that's the way it was.

So, you could not be more wrong to disagree with that. Those were the facts. All of your other "points" are just about as wrong-headed, and I won't waste my time responding to them. We'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess. Hope I can sleep tonight.

[codespy]

Originally Posted by litzdog911

The HR24 is NOT the new DirecTV/Tivo HD DVR.

Since the HD DirecTivo is HR10 and the DirecTV branded is the HR20, maybe the the newer DirecTivo/DirecTV branded will be HR30. But my wife has indicated to me often that I've been wrong before!

[edkut]

I agree with Dirk. I liked my HR10-250 but had to switch to the HR2X to satisfy my need for more HD. I still have a Philips DSR708 SD which I still like the functionality of way better than my Directv DVR any day. I will say the new DTV DVR does have some nice features but TIVO kicks ass over them for sure. I'm still hopeful for a DTV TIVO roll out soon.

[phixel]

From TiVo's last quarterly filing:

"Additionally, we continue to work on our new DIRECTV HD DVR. The new HD DVR will include popular TiVo broadband features, and will be immediately accessible to DIRECTV's entire national customer base on day-one of the launch. We have had a very successful history with DIRECTV and those subscribers are some of our most loyal customers. Now, as these customers look to upgrade from standard definition programming, they will have the option to choose the TiVo experience to help them truly get the most out of their high definition viewing experience"

At least the project is on-track..

[tucsonbill]

Originally Posted by GKevinK

I've gotten used to scheduling my TiVo's online, and was a little surprised when I first tried to use the scheduling feature on directv.com that they wanted extra $ per month for the feature.

Nope, as others have pointed out -- 'taint so. However I have to say that online scheduling via D* is such a PITA (well actually it's not so much the schedulling functionality as it is the idiotic design on the online Guide) that it's only used for my HR21 and then only rarely. I schedule my Tivos directly using Tivo Web Plus. Having seen this functionality it's beyond me why every DVR doesn't feature a Web Page Interface. It doesn't seem that complicated.
OTOH, we're probably not the average users.

[Cudahy]

"immediately accesible to entire national customer base on day one", so it's simply a software update that anyone can get?

[Syzygy]

Yeah, that's what it sounds like -- but I hope it's not that. Maintaining different code revisions for each model, as DirecTV now needs to do, would be a huge burden on the programmers.

[cthomp21]

Originally Posted by Cudahy

"immediately accesible to entire national customer base on day one", so it's simply a software update that anyone can get?

Most likely not. The technological aspects would be huge.

IMO, "immediately accessible" = any D* subscriber can go out and buy one, as this won't be a regional/timed rollout.

[sjberra]

Originally Posted by cthomp21

Most likely not. The technological aspects would be huge.

IMO, "immediately accessible" = any D* subscriber can go out and buy one, as this won't be a regional/timed rollout.

From what the original press release stated it appears to be a software upgrade, th ROI is not there for Directv to maintain two distint hardware platforms, unless the premium charge for the Tivo based unit is high enough to cover it. according to the original press release, the stock Directv DVR will be the normal one, the TIVO based unit will be the premium charge boxes.

Why would the tecnnological aspects be huge? The hardware will be exactly the same, the base hardware will work, would be willing to be the modified software could be dropped on just about any HR2X box and work

[sjberra]

Originally Posted by Syzygy

Yeah, that's what it sounds like -- but I hope it's not that. Maintaining different code revisions for each model, as DirecTV now needs to do, would be a huge burden on the programmers.

they only maintain two codes bases, one SD and one HD and the tivo software would be a second one for the HD units sent only to those that are flagged by paying the premium for it.

[sjberra]

Originally Posted by cthomp21

Most likely not. The technological aspects would be huge.

IMO, "immediately accessible" = any D* subscriber can go out and buy one, as this won't be a regional/timed rollout.

change buy to lease and you might be right, but again cannot see them maintain two spereate boxes for just a software upgrade, that would really be very poor business sense. You can almost bet that the new unots will have no functionality that directly competes with services that Directv offers and will be hack proof like the current directv units