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Old 11-01-2009, 03:08 PM   #3931
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Originally Posted by eaayoung View Post
So, I've order a new WD drive for my S3 from Buy.com. I could complete the upgrade via a Mac or Windows 7 PC but prefer to use the Windows 7 PC.

Has anyone tried this with Windows 7?
I did mine running WinMFS under Windows 7; just be sure to run WinMFS as an administrator otherwise it won't see any drives. Otherwise it works fine.
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Old 11-01-2009, 06:17 PM   #3932
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Thanks.

Should have the drive by the weekend.
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Old 11-01-2009, 06:18 PM   #3933
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Thanks.

Should have the new drive by next weekend.
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Old 11-01-2009, 06:57 PM   #3934
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That's a good plan. IIRC some others here did the same thing...maybe MSPAN? Upgraded one TiVo, keeping all of the recordings, then moved the recordings off of another TiVo to that one, upgraded the other TiVo and then moved the transferred recordings back again. Phew!

Anyway, happy upgrading!
I upgraded 1 of my TiVo HD's to 1TB and did a copy from the original 160GB to the 1TB. All setting and shows were fine, but I did not have an expander.

Another thing that I did do was use this now "spare" 160GB drive to fix a non upgraded TiVoHD in another room. I did a truncated copy from the "bad" drive, to this spare drive and this spare drive is now running just fine. I plan on writing all zeros to the bad drive, and then do a copy from the spare drive that is now running. I want to see if the "bad" drive can be fixed. I did several full drive scans on the "bad" drive and it tests OK.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:25 AM   #3935
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Originally Posted by tomlavelle View Post
I ordered a WD10EVVS from buy.com last week; arrived Wednesday, I just tried to upgrade today Saturday. No joy - Tivo boots to the rainbow 'powering up' screen but never gets past that. I hear the drive spin up and the heads move a little when I put the power to the Tivo but after that it's pretty quiet.

MDL: WD10EVVS - 63M5B0
Product of Thailand
DATE: 19 SEP 2009
DCM: DANCHV2MGB
R/N: 701640
LBA: 1953525168

Note that the first five characters of the DCM are different than MitchV's, which was sourced from buy.com at about the same time.

I used WinMFS, flipped supersize on. MFSCopy from original 250GB disk to this 1TB disk took a couple hours, WinMFS reported that everything went fine.

I did not turn OneCare anti-virus off.

I have not jumpered the drive in any way.

Any ideas?!? I'm frustrated because I've upgraded Series3 Tivos in the past without issue, my primary Tivo has a failing (Seagate 750GB) disk and I need to get this newly acquired Series3 working ASAP.

Thanks,
Tom
FYI, I replaced the EVVS with an EVDS, works great. I bought another WD10EVDS to replace the failing 750GB Seagate DB35 in my original Series3.
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Old 11-02-2009, 10:30 AM   #3936
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I replaced the WD10EVVS with the WD10EVDS in my TivoHD, and no longer have the warm reboot problem.

I also used WinMFS with my recently upgraded Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit computer, copying from the EVVS to the EVDS, and had no problems.

I'll be returning the EVVS drive soon.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:42 PM   #3937
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I replaced the WD10EVVS with the WD10EVDS in my TivoHD, and no longer have the warm reboot problem.

I also used WinMFS with my recently upgraded Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit computer, copying from the EVVS to the EVDS, and had no problems.

I'll be returning the EVVS drive soon.
This is interesting.

I don't read this thread very often, but someone just pointed it out to me. I've tried to look back and see how long these issues have been occurring, so I'm sorry if I've missed something.

Is it just you that is having problems with the EVVS or does it appear that many are seeing this?

AFAIK, the TiVo HD XL uses the EVVS drive, and up until recently, we've been using the EVVS drives for many of our 1TB upgrades with no issues.

The thought that WD may be modding their firmware, and having issues as a result, is not necessarily unfounded. We've noticed that some models of WD drives that previously worked in certain older TiVo models recently stopped working with newer shipments. The only explanation we can come up with for that is changes in the firmware, which appear to be unannounced / undocumented.

I'm very curious about this and would like any more information you or anyone else can provide.

Lou
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:09 PM   #3938
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It started with drives with a Sept manufacture date. Search this thread for WD10EVVS and begin with the October hits. Several people have posted their detailed drive info.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:18 PM   #3939
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This is interesting.
Hi Lou, good to hear from you.

In a nutshell it appears that WD changed something (likely firmware?) in the WD10EVVS effective with their September 20th manufacture date for drives built in Thailand . Those that installed drives with a prior manufacture date aren't experiencing any problems. Post 09/20/09 however the drives generally do not boot up at all in Series3's and TiVo HD's, sticking at the Welcome! screen.

AFAIK the issue above (soft reboot failure) in a TiVo HD is the first of its kind.

The drives in question had various DCM codes, etc. but all had the 09/20/09 manufacture date. Quite a few people were very helpful with posting all of their drive's details. You can scroll back through the thread to find them.

We were aware that TiVo was using the WD10EVVS as well and surprised that something changed. I don't know if you remember when something similar happened with the WD10EADS. It worked fine when it was first introduced a few years ago but about 90 days after introduction they began exhibiting the soft reboot issue in Series3's. Since then they're only recommended for TiVo HD's.

I and several others here contacted WD to see if they'd shed any light on the subject. A CSR named "Pablo" (or some variation) replied to a few e-mails with some generalities and vague reasoning (none of which was drive specific) , but after that the replies stopped. Perhaps you can get them to cough up some info?

In any case, the first post now recommends that the WD10EVVS be avoided completely. The drive of choice is either the WD10EVDS or Seagate's ST31000322CS, both of which work in all of the hi-def TiVo's.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Noted that tomlavelle had problems with a WD10EVVS w/manufacture date of 09/19/09 as well. (Perhaps his was built at 11:59 p.m.?)

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Old 11-02-2009, 04:33 PM   #3940
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AFAIK, the TiVo HD XL uses the EVVS drive, and up until recently, we've been using the EVVS drives for many of our 1TB upgrades with no issues.
If you recently purchased a batch of WD10EVVS drives with a manufacture date of Sept 20 or later in Thailand, then you'll want to return it. As Rich indicates above, those drives are not compatible with either high-definition TiVo.

The new drive of choice is the WD10EVDS. The Seagate ST31000322CS works just as well, but it produces slightly more noise.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:33 PM   #3941
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Hi Lou, good to hear from you.

In a nutshell it appears that WD changed something (likely firmware?) in the WD10EVVS effective with their September 20th manufacture date for drives built in Thailand . Those that installed drives with a prior manufacture date aren't experiencing any problems. Post 09/20/09 however the drives generally do not boot up at all in Series3's and TiVo HD's, sticking at the Welcome! screen.

AFAIK the issue above (soft reboot failure) in a TiVo HD is the first of its kind.

The drives in question had various DCM codes, etc. but all had the 09/20/09 manufacture date. Quite a few people were very helpful with posting their all of their drive's details. You can scroll back through the thread to find them.

We were aware that TiVo was using the WD10EVVS as well and surprised that something changed. I don't know if you remember when something similar happened with the WD10EADS. It worked fine when it was first introduced a few years ago but about 90 days after introduction they began exhibiting the soft reboot issue in Series3's. Since then they're only recommended for TiVo HD's.

I and several others here contacted WD to see if they'd shed any light on the subject. A CSR named "Pablo" (or some variation) replied to a few e-mails with some generalities and vague reasoning (none of which was drive specific) , but after that the replies stopped. Perhaps you can get them to cough up some info?

In any case, the first post now recommends that the WD10EVVS be avoided completely. The drive of choice is either the WD10EVDS or Seagate's ST31000322CS, both of which work in all of the hi-def TiVo's.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Noted that tomlavelle had problems with a WD10EVVS w/manufacture date of 09/19/09 as well. (Perhaps his was built at 11:59 p.m.?)
Thanks for the details. I am going to forward to a few people in product marketing at TiVo. They may or may not know and/or comment.

I am SO not surprised by the firmware change, as I mentioned earlier, we are seeing this happen across the product line (and we are not happy about it).

We've used the EVDS drives without a problem, but I noticed that those are now on back-order and I'm wondering whether there is a firmware change in the works there, as well.

As for 'drive of choice' -- don't forget about the Hitachi Deskstar (tuned). This is something we've been using for a couple of years, without issue in both TiVo HD and TiVo Series3 boxes. Their quality has been excellent (I think we've seen one or two bad drives; failures have been very rare) and acoustically, their differences have been undetectable.

Lou
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:53 PM   #3942
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If you recently purchased a batch of WD10EVVS drives with a manufacture date of Sept 20 or later in Thailand, then you'll want to return it. As Rich indicates above, those drives are not compatible with either high-definition TiVo.

The new drive of choice is the WD10EVDS. The Seagate ST31000322CS works just as well, but it produces slightly more noise.
Thanks bkdtv... I don't have much experience with that Seagate model, but we have offered the WD10EVDS for some time without issue. We also like the Hitachi Deskstar (see my previous reply); that is one we've got the most experience with and from a reliability and performance standpoint recommend whenever possible.

Lou
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:02 PM   #3943
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As for 'drive of choice' -- don't forget about the Hitachi Deskstar (tuned). This is something we've been using for a couple of years, without issue in both TiVo HD and TiVo Series3 boxes. Their quality has been excellent (I think we've seen one or two bad drives; failures have been very rare) and acoustically, their differences have been undetectable.

Lou
Hi Lou, glad to help. Do you happen to have the exact model number of the Hitachi? That would be a good addition to the lineup.

I was a Seagate man for years and years then WD got their QC together and I've been happy with them in a number of applications (besides TiVo) for a while now. But with the issues Seagate had with their own firmware last year, a couple of Samsung Spinpoint disappointments and now WD getting to be questionable (at least on the firmware front...the quality still seems to be very good) I may become a Hitachi convert. I just put one of their 500GB drives in my MacBook and it's doing well...so if they're the rising star I'll gladly jump on board!

TIA.
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:24 PM   #3944
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Hi Lou, glad to help. Do you happen to have the exact model number of the Hitachi? That would be a good addition to the lineup.

I was a Seagate man for years and years then WD got their QC together and I've been happy with them in a number of applications (besides TiVo) for a while now. But with the issues Seagate had with their own firmware last year, a couple of Samsung Spinpoint disappointments and now WD getting to be questionable (at least on the firmware front...the quality still seems to be very good) I may become a Hitachi convert. I just put one of their 500GB drives in my MacBook and it's doing well...so if they're the rising star I'll gladly jump on board!

TIA.
The Hitachi Deskstar 0A38016 7K1000.B

We started out, quite some time ago, with a previous incarnation of these and worked very closely with Hitachi on offering rebates to our customers. At the time, we worked with Hitachi's engineers who assured us that the Deskstars which tuned with their AAM tools, were the same specs as their CinemaStar line. Interestingly, the CinemaStar line never really took off (we were rarely able to get them) but the Deskstar still seems to live on.

Having been doing the TiVo drive thing for over nine years now, we have seen every vendor go through fits and starts...

First, we started with Maxtor and Quantum. At that time (2000), WD quality was horrendous, and Seagate drives were very good, but loud and hot; the initial 7200 RPM drives were miserably hot!

Then Maxtor quality started to go down (after they purchased Quantum), Samsung came on the scene with Spinpoint drives and they were AWESOME. WD drives were still crap.

Then Seagate came in with the DB35 drives, and they were looking just "OK" for awhile. Samsung was still fantastic. Maxtor got better.

Then, Samsung blew it and their quality went down. WD started to get better. Seagate bought Maxtor and then Seagate started having quality issues.

Now, Samsung has pretty much disappeared. Seagate has maintained decent quality for some time, but seems to have bailed on the AV space (edit: yes, they do have the Pipeline drives, but they bailed early on the DB35 PATA drives and don't offer much at the low end anymore). WD quality has been great for the past 18 months until this little 'hiccup'.

So far, Hitachi has been good. I know they have had issues prior (the old IBM drives) but since we've started using them, we've had hardly any failures.

Lou

PS I've just been advised that our recent order of EVDS drives have shipped. I will post the F/W numbers when I get them. Is there a table being maintained? Happy to try and help. I still need to read back a few pages...
Lj
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Old 11-02-2009, 06:12 PM   #3945
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The Hitachi Deskstar 0A38016 7K1000.B
The Hitachi 7K1000.B is also known as the HDT721010SLA360. That's how it is listed in the first post.

The 7K1000.C (HDS721010CLA332) is now available in Asia and should hit the U.S. next month. The PDF claims acoustics of 2.4 Bels, compared to 2.7 Bels for the existing 7K1000.B.

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PS I've just been advised that our recent order of EVDS drives have shipped. I will post the F/W numbers when I get them. Is there a table being maintained? Happy to try and help. I still need to read back a few pages...
Lj
No table maintained, but if they've got a recent build date and they work, please let us know.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:54 PM   #3946
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The new drive of choice is the WD10EVDS. The Seagate ST31000322CS works just as well, but it produces slightly more noise.
The Seagate ST31000322CS drive I recently put in one of our TiVo HDs is noticeably noisier than the WD10EVDS in the other TiVo HD. Kind of a low frequency rumble when accessing the drive. It's even inside a cabinet which I thought would help, but my wife even commented on it. Can't hear it when watching a program, but with the sound muted or the TV off it's kind of distracting. The TiVo with the WE10EVDS in it is out in the open and I never hear the drive at all.

I think after sweeps is over I'll get another WD10EVDS and swap it out and then use the Seagate for a backup drive for my computer.

I'll be watching the posts closely in this thread to make sure the WD10EVDS drives don't get updated to make them incompatible like the EVVS model.
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:54 PM   #3947
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The Hitachi 7K1000.B is also known as the HDT721010SLA360. That's how it is listed in the first post.

The 7K1000.C (HDS721010CLA332) is now available in Asia and should hit the U.S. next month. The PDF claims acoustics of 2.4 Bels, compared to 2.7 Bels for the existing 7K1000.B.

No table maintained, but if they've got a recent build date and they work, please let us know.
I'll definitely let you know. I've noticed much more limited availability of the .B drives, that makes sense with .C on the horizon.

Lou
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:08 AM   #3948
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The Seagate ST31000322CS drive I recently put in one of our TiVo HDs is noticeably noisier than the WD10EVDS in the other TiVo HD. Kind of a low frequency rumble when accessing the drive. It's even inside a cabinet which I thought would help, but my wife even commented on it. Can't hear it when watching a program, but with the sound muted or the TV off it's kind of distracting. The TiVo with the WE10EVDS in it is out in the open and I never hear the drive at all.

I think after sweeps is over I'll get another WD10EVDS and swap it out and then use the Seagate for a backup drive for my computer.

I'll be watching the posts closely in this thread to make sure the WD10EVDS drives don't get updated to make them incompatible like the EVVS model.
Thanks. I'll update the noise rating in the first chart.

How would you describe the Seagate ST31000322CS relative to the original TivoHD drive: less noticeable, about the same, or more noticeable?

If the original TiVo drive is an 8 or 8.5 and the WD10EVDS is a 10, how would you rank the ST31000322CS?
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:12 AM   #3949
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Replacing Apricorn external 500 G drive

I have the original S3 with a Apricorn external 500 G drive that although functions sound like a someone trying to start a lawn mower with a pull rope and it just won't start.

I don't wish to crack any cases, so I am looking at the Western Digital 1TB My DVR Expander Hard Drive. Tivo has it for about 200 bucks, Amazon has it for about 130 bucks. The math part is simple. The reliability is another. Amazon shows WDG1S10000N as the product number. Is this a drive that has shown any issues? I don't see any posted in this thread.


Thanks for any info.

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Old 11-03-2009, 07:57 AM   #3950
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I'll speculate the new firmware is defaulting (on power on) to a powersaving mode that tivo (maybe linux in general) doesn't (or can't) awaken the drive from.



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Thanks for the details. I am going to forward to a few people in product marketing at TiVo. They may or may not know and/or comment.

I am SO not surprised by the firmware change, as I mentioned earlier, we are seeing this happen across the product line (and we are not happy about it).

We've used the EVDS drives without a problem, but I noticed that those are now on back-order and I'm wondering whether there is a firmware change in the works there, as well.

As for 'drive of choice' -- don't forget about the Hitachi Deskstar (tuned). This is something we've been using for a couple of years, without issue in both TiVo HD and TiVo Series3 boxes. Their quality has been excellent (I think we've seen one or two bad drives; failures have been very rare) and acoustically, their differences have been undetectable.

Lou

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Old 11-03-2009, 08:37 AM   #3951
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Thanks to the great advice in this thread, I managed to get a WD15EVDS installed and working in a Series3 TiVo. WinMFS was a bit of a fight at first, but I can blame that on a cheap add-in SATA card I tried to use. Once I switched over to an external USB enclosure, results were much less miserable.

Of course, if my expander hadn't bombed out, I wouldn't have needed to upgrade, but that's another story. I don't have the details on the WD drive available at the moment, MFSSupersize worked and it's reporting around 216 hours of HD capacity.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:15 AM   #3952
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I have the original S3 with a Apricorn external 500 G drive that although functions sound like a someone trying to start a lawn mower with a pull rope and it just won't start.

I don't wish to crack any cases, so I am looking at the Western Digital 1TB My DVR Expander Hard Drive. Tivo has it for about 200 bucks, Amazon has it for about 130 bucks. The math part is simple. The reliability is another. Amazon shows WDG1S10000N as the product number. Is this a drive that has shown any issues? I don't see any posted in this thread.


Thanks for any info.
The 1TB WD My DVR Expander has only been available for a few months...not really enough time to determine reliability. AFAIK I've only seen one post that indicated one failed. The 500GB model seems to have a fairly short lifespan, often failing at about 12 to 18 months. The My DVR Expander line only has a one-year warranty. The majority of failures appear to be due to the enclosure, not the actual hard drive. Several folks here have put the hard drive in a new enclosure and life was good again. As with anything, YMMV.

If you don't want to upgrade the internal drive in your Series3 you might want to consider building your own eSATA drive...buying one of the recommended bare drives and enclosures from the first post of the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ. It couldn't be more simple...open the enclosure, slip the hard drive inside and you're in business. That would give you a three to five year warranty on the drive and you can build a 1TB eSATA drive for about the same cost as the WD model from Amazon.
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:30 PM   #3953
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I'll speculate the new firmware is defaulting (on power on) to a powersaving mode that tivo (maybe linux in general) doesn't (or can't) awaken the drive from.
Lew, does the TiVo HDD EVER go into a power save mode anyway? I wonder as it is always buffering 2 tuners worth of data and is never "off".
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:38 PM   #3954
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Lew, does the TiVo HDD EVER go into a power save mode anyway? I wonder as it is always buffering 2 tuners worth of data and is never "off".
Current Broadcom DVR SoCs don't offer any power management functions. That's a "feature" of the new and upcoming Broadcom SoCs.
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:39 PM   #3955
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Lew, does the TiVo HDD EVER go into a power save mode anyway? I wonder as it is always buffering 2 tuners worth of data and is never "off".
That's really the issue. I don't have any definitive information. I agree normally tivo won't put the drive into powersave mode. The question is if the WD drive now goes into power save mode on power on can/will tivo awaken the drive? Can (does) tivo issue whatever command is necessary to awaken a drive tivo when tivo doesn't have any reason to think the drive will ever be in a powersave mode.
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:44 PM   #3956
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Current Broadcom DVR SoCs don't offer any power management functions. That's a "feature" of the new and upcoming Broadcom SoCs.
What happens if WD did something so the "bad" drives automatically go into a power save (standby) mode at power on. Are the Broadcom DVRs able to "awaken" the drive. My WD drive has a jumper to enable power save on power on. What would happen if, as a result of a firmware change, that mode is now the default setting?
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:01 PM   #3957
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
The 1TB WD My DVR Expander has only been available for a few months...not really enough time to determine reliability. AFAIK I've only seen one post that indicated one failed. The 500GB model seems to have a fairly short lifespan, often failing at about 12 to 18 months. The My DVR Expander line only has a one-year warranty. The majority of failures appear to be due to the enclosure, not the actual hard drive. Several folks here have put the hard drive in a new enclosure and life was good again. As with anything, YMMV.

If you don't want to upgrade the internal drive in your Series3 you might want to consider building your own eSATA drive...buying one of the recommended bare drives and enclosures from the first post of the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ. It couldn't be more simple...open the enclosure, slip the hard drive inside and you're in business. That would give you a three to five year warranty on the drive and you can build a 1TB eSATA drive for about the same cost as the WD model from Amazon.
Thanks for the response Rich. I decided to go with the Amazon purchase.

I am now in the process of transferring as many recordings to my iMac OS 10.6 via tivo transfer/popcorn from the S3/Apricorn. Once I get the mydvr hooked up to the S3 how do I transfer back to the tivo? I don't see that option in tivo transfer and tivo desktop can not be installed on this computer (get an error code with no information). The directions in this thread just say you can transfer back, but don't say how, unless I missed that somewhere.

Any help there would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:54 PM   #3958
richsadams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnorth12 View Post
Thanks for the response Rich. I decided to go with the Amazon purchase.

I am now in the process of transferring as many recordings to my iMac OS 10.6 via tivo transfer/popcorn from the S3/Apricorn. Once I get the mydvr hooked up to the S3 how do I transfer back to the tivo? I don't see that option in tivo transfer and tivo desktop can not be installed on this computer (get an error code with no information). The directions in this thread just say you can transfer back, but don't say how, unless I missed that somewhere.

Any help there would be greatly appreciated.
Not sure about the "popcorn" transfer. I use two very reliable programs...iTiVo for transfers to my Mac and PyTiVoX to transfer recordings, etc. to TiVo. The folks that designed those programs are regulars here and there are support threads for both programs.

TiVo Desktop for Mac does not work w/Snow Leopard yet. TiVo says they are working on it, but no one knows when it will be available. There's a thread about it, but mostly it's just folks complaining. TiVo has something on their web site saying that they are aware of the issue and are working on it. In the meantime PyTiVoX should work to transfer recordings back when you get your new drive.

Enjoy!
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:00 PM   #3959
richsadams
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Originally Posted by lew View Post
What happens if WD did something so the "bad" drives automatically go into a power save (standby) mode at power on. Are the Broadcom DVRs able to "awaken" the drive. My WD drive has a jumper to enable power save on power on. What would happen if, as a result of a firmware change, that mode is now the default setting?
FWIW it doesn't seem likely that a power save mode is the issue with the WD10EVVS. Folks are reporting that the drive spins up on boot up, does a few seeks and then nothing more. Since TiVo's stick on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it indicates that the motherboard can't communicate with the hard drive. I'd be more inclined to believe that it's a firmware issue...possibly something similar to the change that suddenly prevented the WD10EACS from working with Series3's.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:51 PM   #3960
lrhorer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Hi Lou, good to hear from you.

In a nutshell it appears that WD changed something (likely firmware?) in the WD10EVVS effective with their September 20th manufacture date for drives built in Thailand . Those that installed drives with a prior manufacture date aren't experiencing any problems. Post 09/20/09 however the drives generally do not boot up at all in Series3's and TiVo HD's, sticking at the Welcome! screen.

AFAIK the issue above (soft reboot failure) in a TiVo HD is the first of its kind.
Um, huh? Are you saying there are no other drives which exhibit a reboot failure with a THD? That may be. Certainly there are drives which work with a hard reboot but fail a soft reboot on the S3. I also posted This message concerning the Hitachi Deskstar 500G which will not boot at all in a THD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
In any case, the first post now recommends that the WD10EVVS be avoided completely. The drive of choice is either the WD10EVDS or Seagate's ST31000322CS, both of which work in all of the hi-def TiVo's.
I've had good luck with Seagate Barracuda drives and Hitachi Deskstar drives in my S3 units. The only problems I have had are with 500G Hitachi in my THD (although I haven't tried a 1T Hitachi in the THD) and the WD15EADS in my S3.
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