IPv6 support

[lrhorer]

Originally Posted by Grandpasteve

As it stands, TiVo does not connect to the Internet, it connects to my home network, which connects to the Internet using a modem. If there is ever a need for Tivo to be connected directly to the Internet, then it might need IPV6, but until that happens, there is no need for it.

That's simply not true. First of all, if you will look at every single packet from your TiVo destined for any address outside your LAN, you will see it has a perfectly valid routable internet address. The fact the router, via NAT, translates every incoming packet's destination address to an non-routable address and every outbound packet's non-routable source address to a routable source address is not relevant. The correct routable internet source address must be on every packet the TiVo receives from outside the firewall, and the correct routable destination IP address must reside on every packet headed from the TiVo to the internet. 'No exceptions. If the internet address with which the TiVo wishes to communicate is not a 32 bit IPV4 address, then you are hosed, period.

Originally Posted by Grandpasteve

There may be a need in the near future for my ISP to provide an IPV6 address for my modem, but that does not affect my home network.

This is incorrect. First of all, NAT itself is going to be going away, although it doesn't really hurt anything to have it enabled even on an IPV6 network. It just serves little or no purpose. The simple fact is - firewall modem or not - an IPV4 host is going to have real challenges communicating with an IPV6 host which does not also have an IPV4 address. For the time being, we can still employ various work-arounds, but those work-arounds are going to get harder and harder pressed to maintain connectivity everywhere. Various proxy solutions and multiple network addresses are only going to work ubiquitously for a fairly short time until large holes start to open up in the address space.

[Yog]

Adding to Irhorer comments ...

If Tivos remain an IPv4 only device, the only solution I know of which would allow it to talk to the IPv4 internet in the case where your ISP only gives you only an IPv6 (e.g. you are on a IPv6 "island" ... a real future possibility) is Dual-Stack Lite.

All the other IPv6 <-> IPv4 transition mechanisms I know of (such as TRT, NAT64) presume that your host can speak IPv6 natively, and represents the IPv4 internet as fake-prefix IPv6 addresses. Perhaps there are others I don't know of (I don't know much about IVI, perhaps this allows native IPv4 only hosts to speak to IPv6 hosts and transit an IPv6 only network to speak to other IPv4s?). But if this is the case, your ISP will either have to provide IPv4 via DS-Lite, or the end user will have to come up with his own solution (manually configured IPv4 in IPv6 tunnel perhaps).

So IMHO, over the next year or two, it'd be in Tivo's best interest to support IPv6. If not on current ones, then certainly on a future model (although if a future model supports it, a "back-port" to current models would seem to be a no brainer).

[MichaelK]

help out a layman- I'm trying to understand-

so you guys are saying that all the IPv4 equipment is going to be worthless shortly (in a mater of single digit years)? I was under the impression that newer cablemodems and whatnot were going to be able to allow our older IPv4 devices to connect to the IPv6 internet through some flavor of nat?

Seems what lrhorer is saying is that the IPv4 devices will be able to connect to other IPv4 hosts with IPv6 in the middle but they wont have the abilit to getto IPv6 ONLY hosts that might show up in the future? Is that the real issue?

So I'd ask for a device like a tivo that has limited hosts it needs to connect to tivo and it's content partners and our home networks- as long as Tivo and their content partners can run on IPv4 hosts then is there a problem?

I know current computers and most recent vintages are fine and could do IPv6. Is everything else currently getting built (blue ray players, connected Tv's, etc.) all being done IPv6?

Can you run IPv6 and IPv4 on the same device at the same time? Why isn't comcast overlaying IPv6? (or are they but my particular cable modem is older so is only doing IPV4?)

[Jonathan_S]

Originally Posted by MichaelK

Seems what lrhorer is saying is that the IPv4 devices will be able to connect to other IPv4 hosts with IPv6 in the middle but they wont have the abilit to getto IPv6 ONLY hosts that might show up in the future? Is that the real issue?

So I'd ask for a device like a tivo that has limited hosts it needs to connect to tivo and it's content partners and our home networks- as long as Tivo and their content partners can run on IPv4 hosts then is there a problem?

That's basically my understanding of the issue.
Obviously TiVo's current servers and content partners all have IPv4 addresses which they're unlikely to give up anytime soon.

But this could basically limit future content partners to people who can offer an IPv4 addressable server.

[lrhorer]

Originally Posted by MichaelK

help out a layman- I'm trying to understand-

so you guys are saying that all the IPv4 equipment is going to be worthless shortly (in a mater of single digit years)?

Well, first of all, most devices can have their firmware upgraded. IPV6 does not require anything special in the way of hardware. Secondly, it may be an overstatement to say such a device will be worthless. It still will be able to connect to a significant fraction of the internet, but day by day that fraction will get smaller and smaller.

Originally Posted by MichaelK

I was under the impression that newer cablemodems and whatnot were going to be able to allow our older IPv4 devices to connect to the IPv6 internet through some flavor of nat?

IPV4 hosts will stil be able to talk freely to IPV4 hosts, just not directly to IPV6 hosts.

Originally Posted by MichaelK

Seems what lrhorer is saying is that the IPv4 devices will be able to connect to other IPv4 hosts with IPv6 in the middle but they wont have the abilit to getto IPv6 ONLY hosts that might show up in the future? Is that the real issue?

That's about right.

Originally Posted by MichaelK

So I'd ask for a device like a tivo that has limited hosts it needs to connect to tivo and it's content partners and our home networks- as long as Tivo and their content partners can run on IPv4 hosts then is there a problem?

The gateways need to have IPV4 addresses, but IPV4 addresses are getting just as scarce for gateways as for end user hosts.

Originally Posted by MichaelK

I know current computers and most recent vintages are fine and could do IPv6. Is everything else currently getting built (blue ray players, connected Tv's, etc.) all being done IPv6?

I don't really know, but see mu comment above about upgrading firmware.

Originally Posted by MichaelK

Can you run IPv6 and IPv4 on the same device at the same time?

Sure.

Originally Posted by MichaelK

Why isn't comcast overlaying IPv6? (or are they but my particular cable modem is older so is only doing IPV4?)

You would have to ask Comcast.

[MichaelK]

thanks for clarifying for me. I think i get it now.

Originally Posted by lrhorer

...
The gateways need to have IPV4 addresses, but IPV4 addresses are getting just as scarce for gateways as for end user hosts.
....

well all but a gateway. What's a gateway?

My limited understanding is that there are clients and servers and they connect through switches and routers? And somewhere along the line there's a DNS server that the client might need to check in with if the server it wants to talk has a name instead of an IP number address.

so where does a gateway come in?

(no need to laugh and point- I'm clueless )

[wgc]

Originally Posted by MichaelK

well all but a gateway. What's a gateway?

My limited understanding is that there are clients and servers and they connect through switches and routers?

A gateway is a router.

Specifically, your gateway is the router that handles all network traffic going to and from the internet. It needs to be reachable from the internet so needs to respond to whichever protocol your ISP is using (IPv4? IPv6?) on a valid routable IP address.