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Old 06-21-2009, 02:07 AM   #3061
lrhorer
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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
lrhorer - thank you. It's 1am here and I need to go to sleep
Sleep? What's sleep?

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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
My first question, though, is what you mean by "hook up the internal signal / power jumper" - do you mean plug in the sata and power connector to the original drive?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
Then plug in the power cord and connect to the tv and see if it's working?
Yes.

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No need to close up the drive enclosure
Drive enclosure? What drive enclosure? At this point the only thing active should be the TiVo.

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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
and Tivo frame?
If you feel more comfortable, you can put the case hood on the frame, but there certainly is no need to screw all the screws back in to the case. You don't want the drive rolling around inside and shorting out things, either, so if you leave the drive in the drive mount, then I would screw in at least two of the screws to secure it. Alternately, you can wrap the drive in a piece of heavy construction paper and tape the paper in place to keep its metal parts from coming into accidental contact with the Tivo innards. Certainly keep your fingers and any conductive objects away from the inside of the TiVo while power is applied. Also be aware that when the TiVo is shut down, it can take some time for the filter capacitors on the power supply to fully discharge. After a few seconds the voltages will not be hazardous to your body if you touch them, but a conductive object like a screwdriver shorted across them can generate a flash large enough to cause a small burn or to destroy components inside the unit. Unless you know what's what, it's best to let the unit sit for 4 or 5 minutes after unplugging it before sticking a screwdriver in it.

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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
I suspect this will work - since this step seemed to go fine.
I expect it will, but let's not assume. If it doesn't, all is still not lost, but we will have to get a bit more creative. 'Worst case, you might have to shell out $20 for a copy of InstantCake.

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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
No esata port on my pc, so I'll have to open it up and connect to the internal sata ports and power supply.
You might consider investing in an eSATA bracket like this, this or this for future utility. (Has anyone on the forum tried the third bracket out? It looks to be absolutely perrfect for use with an Antec MX-1 housing, if the power pin-outs are correct.)

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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
When I first copied the original drive onto the new internal drive, it took about an hour - but my hard drive was not full - maybe 7-8 hours of high def - a few standard. But I don't need those recordings (I have them on my pc or Tivo 2), so in the interest of time, I think I'd like to skip copying all the recorded shows and just copy the software. Is there a step to just do that?
It sounds like you did.

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When I tried to marry the new internal and external drives, it was quick. But I don't recall an option to supersize then (I did when formatting the first drive).
Correct. Supersizing can be done either before or after marrying the two drives. It's not part of the marriage process, and in fact it can be done before you remove the drive the first time, but I wanted to break the process down into small steps, checking along the way.

The next time you get to the point where you are about to marry the two drives, look carefully at the WinMFS screen when you select the A (Upgrade) drive. It should look something like this:



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Since that's where I got something different than the instructions, could someone tell me what should happen when I select MFSadd? I assume no screen suggesting that I'd be writing to a tivo drive? And I checked and checked that I had designated A and B correctly.
Well, I can't say what happened, since I was not there, but at a guess I would say despite your precautions, you accidentally got the drives swapped when selecting the primary and external drive. Don't feel foolish, if that's the case. I'm a professional engineer and I cannot count the times I have checked, double checked, and triple checked to make sure I had things in the right order, or polarities correct, or the safety in the correct position only to have the whole thing go ker-plewey because despite my checking it was not correct. After more than 30 years, it still happens to me all the time.

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After this step, I'd like to run the Tivo with new internal drive.
Exactly. It's a little extra time, but it makes sure everything is correct to this point.

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Can I plug in the esata drive later - just so I can narrow down the point in the process that's a problem.
Surely. In fact, if you re-read my post, you will see that is precisely my suggestion.

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Is it possible that if the external drive wasn't done correctly, that powering it and the Tivo up together caused it to not work?
No, not really. As long as the primary (Original or Upgrade) drive is plugged into the correct connector and properly powered, the TiVo should boot. Now it probably won't boot all the way up before it complains about an unrecognized external drive, but it should still boot.

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The fact that I tried each new drive inside the Tivo - meaning at least one of them was wrong - would that harm the Tivo - or harm the formatting on the drives - since I'm thinking that the first internal upgraded drive I formatted was done correctly.
No, it won't harm the TiVo or physicaly harm the drives, but I suspect the formatting was munged by having the drives swapped in the PC when you married them. It's really not a huge deal either way, other than of course wasting your time.

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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
So I should first try the new internal drive - and only after that's working should I add the external? Not powered up together?
Not after they are married, no. Once they are married, both need to be present for the TiVo to boot up. It should not trash things, but the TiVo will complain about the missing External drive and refuse to boot unless you tell it to perform a divorcement. If you accidentally do, then you will have to re-marry the drives. The bottom line is no, I would not particularly recommend booting up only the Upgrade drive once it is married to the External drive.

Last edited by lrhorer : 06-21-2009 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 06-21-2009, 02:27 AM   #3062
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You might consider investing in an eSATA bracket like this, this or this for future utility. (Has anyone on the forum tried the third bracket out? It looks to be absolutely perrfect for use with an Antec MX-1 housing, if the power pin-outs are correct.)
I use a bracket like the one below (it came with my motherboard). It includes a build in power connector and a bundled SATA->eSATA cable.


Click picture for order link.
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Old 06-21-2009, 02:36 AM   #3063
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That's neat, too, but the one from Newegg looks like perhaps it will work directly with an Antec MX-1 housing. I can't see the number of pins in the connector, and of course I have no way to confirm the pin-out over the web, but man, if it does indeed plug straight in to the MX-1, I definitely want it. Since I have refined the process for maintainng my TiVos, the main remaining hassle is moving the power bricks around and hauling out a power strip every time I need to pull the external drives (which are set up as my primary drives, rather than secondary drives) and move them to the PC.
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Old 06-21-2009, 05:06 AM   #3064
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That's neat, too, but the one from Newegg looks like perhaps it will work directly with an Antec MX-1 housing. I can't see the number of pins in the connector, and of course I have no way to confirm the pin-out over the web, but man, if it does indeed plug straight in to the MX-1, I definitely want it. Since I have refined the process for maintainng my TiVos, the main remaining hassle is moving the power bricks around and hauling out a power strip every time I need to pull the external drives (which are set up as my primary drives, rather than secondary drives) and move them to the PC.
The adapter is compatible with the Icy Dock enclosures, listed on the product page for the bracket. You may be able to find a manual for one of the enclosures that includes a description of how the power cable is wired.
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:09 AM   #3065
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lrhorer - thanks for confirming and breaking that down. I will try all of that (but no doubt get interrupted by my daughter and husband since it's father's day). I would love to use an external esata bracket and power connector like bkdtv showed above. The problem I discovered yesterday is that my Dell Inspiron 530 has no molex connectors. Just 2 free sata power connectors (yesterday I plugged my drives into those for power).

Now my antec mx-1 enclosure came with an esata bracket just like the first one lrhorer linked http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812226006. I think I can add this bracket to my pc and be able to plug in the enclosed antec case with external hard drive - directly into this newly added esata port. The problem is, where to get power. If the drive is left enclosed, I can't access it to use the pc's sata power connector. Can I just use the power cord that comes with the Antec mx-1 - and plug it into a wall outlet (or power strip)?

{I would love to eventually get the dual esata port from lrhorer's second link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812201015
but again, I'd need to know how I'm going to power the external drives.

When I married the two drives, I got the same screen lrhorer shows above. I selected the Tivo Series 2 or 3 (number 2) for drive A - and the external drive to drive B. Then I checked select B - chose the drive in 1, which indicated it was (I think) something like an unknown format - clearly not the Tivo formatted drive. Do you happen to know what it should look like after selecting drive B? When I select mfsadd, what screen should I see?

Thanks to everyone. What a generous helpful group of people. I'd be lost without you. As painful as this process has been, I have learned a lot that will put me in good stead for future upgrade work on my pc. (now my family would like their Tivo back - for some reason, running the coax cable from comcast straight to our tv is no longer working - I assume unrelated to this Tivo struggle.)

Thanks.
Lynn.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:06 AM   #3066
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Okay - I've gotten so far as to program the new internal drive - and it runs - but also at some point mentions the missing external drive. If I turn on and connect the external drive I had thought I'd prepared last night, it doesn't recognize it. So I figured the problem was with the marrying the two drives (new internal and new external). So I hooked it up to my computer again. Try to run Winmfs.

If I just select drive A (number 1), it says error - Your A drive is married to B drive but only A drive is selected. So I'm thinking great - the marriage worked. Now I go to select A and B drive. I choose 1 for A drive and 2 for the B drive. Both drives now say the same thing - same model number - Format Tivo Series 2 or 3. Size 1000 GB. Bus Type ATA. SAme sectors. Again it seems they've already been married. If I then go to MFSadd, it says "you are about to write to Tivo Drive(s); Are you sure? This is what I got yesterday - before I had said okay to mfsadd. For now, I won't say yes but wait to hear back from this forum. To me, this is again suggesting that both drives are Tivo ready.

But for further diagnostics - I will switch the selected drives. So now for Drive A I've selected 2 - and for Drive B I"ve selected 1. Then his select. Then select MFSadd, and it says "not a Tivo drive." So I'm stumped. This suggests that one of these drives is not Tivo ready - but when I selected the other way around, it says I'd be writing on a Tivo drive.

So I will leave it all hooked up and hope somebody can tell me how to proceed. When I ran the new internal drive in my Tivo, it was looking for the external drive - but didn't recognize the external drive when it was connected. It almost seems as though the internal drive knows it's married, but the external drive doesn't. But either way I proceed to try to run mfsadd, there's a problem. Either it gives the yellow triangle warning that it's "not a tivo drive" or the warning that
you are about to write to a Tivo drive." This second warning will let me proceed anyway.

So what should I do.
Thanks.
Lynn.
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:33 PM   #3067
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Ah! I see. 'Not a bad plan, at all. You may find yourself wanting more space on the other two TiVos - believe it or not. Whenever you do, you can always upgrade at that time.


Remember it? I still have bad dreams about it. When the drive in the dream changes from a 40M drive to a 10T drive array, the bad dream becomes a nightmare!
Well, I plan on sharing and thought that 1TB was enough for one of them.

These drums were so hard to keep running! So well balanced, too. We would run a razor blade to see if there was a ding and a 1000 lb. horizontal drum would move if the blade hit a ding!
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Old 06-21-2009, 05:05 PM   #3068
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lynn...

What was suggested above was all I was trying to say yesterday. ie: do one thing at a time and in that way you will know which step was causing the problem. I know it will all work out in the end.

OH, Comcast going to TV without TiVo may have issues if the TV does not have ATSC Tuners with a CableCard letting you view stations that are not "in the clear".
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:18 PM   #3069
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Now my antec mx-1 enclosure came with an esata bracket just like the first one lrhorer linked http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812226006. I think I can add this bracket to my pc and be able to plug in the enclosed antec case with external hard drive - directly into this newly added esata port. The problem is, where to get power. If the drive is left enclosed, I can't access it to use the pc's sata power connector. Can I just use the power cord that comes with the Antec mx-1 - and plug it into a wall outlet (or power strip)?
Yeah, that's the whole idea. No matter where the external drive is plugged in, it gets its power from the included power brick.

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{I would love to eventually get the dual esata port from lrhorer's second link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812201015
but again, I'd need to know how I'm going to power the external drives.
Any external drive is always going to come with an auxiliary power supply.

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When I married the two drives, I got the same screen lrhorer shows above. I selected the Tivo Series 2 or 3 (number 2) for drive A - and the external drive to drive B. Then I checked select B - chose the drive in 1, which indicated it was (I think) something like an unknown format - clearly not the Tivo formatted drive. Do you happen to know what it should look like after selecting drive B?
Prior to the marriage, just as you describe.

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When I select mfsadd, what screen should I see?
It's been so long I don't exactly remember, but it should then recognize both drives. The MFS Info utility from within WinMFS will give you a lot of information.
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:24 PM   #3070
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Well, I plan on sharing and thought that 1TB was enough for one of them.
Yeah, you're a noob, no question about it.

My TiVo's have 500G, 1T, and 2T, and my Video Server has 8T, plus I have a couple of workstations I use for editing which have 1T apiece.

Go ahead and laugh. You'll see. You'll get the fever, too.
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:30 PM   #3071
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Yeah, you're a noob, no question about it.

My TiVo's have 500G, 1T, and 2T, and my Video Server has 8T, plus I have a couple of workstations I use for editing which have 1T apiece.

Go ahead and laugh. You'll see. You'll get the fever, too.
OK...I do have the 20 hour Comcast boxes and run out of room fast! But, you can not share from room to room. I do have 3 ReplayTV's and have put 250GB drives in them. They can share and 250GB was a lot for SD!
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:33 PM   #3072
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Okay - I've gotten so far as to program the new internal drive - and it runs - but also at some point mentions the missing external drive. If I turn on and connect the external drive I had thought I'd prepared last night, it doesn't recognize it.
Hang on.

First of all, you are supplying power to the external enclosure via the power brick, right? Whether attached to the computer or the TiVo, that's how the external drive gets its power.

Secondly, the order you mention is backwards. You must power up the external drive (the little blue light underneath the front panel will come on) and plug it into the TiVo first, and then you can power up the TiVo.

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So I figured the problem was with the marrying the two drives (new internal and new external). So I hooked it up to my computer again. Try to run Winmfs.

If I just select drive A (number 1), it says error - Your A drive is married to B drive but only A drive is selected. So I'm thinking great - the marriage worked. Now I go to select A and B drive. I choose 1 for A drive and 2 for the B drive. Both drives now say the same thing - same model number - Format Tivo Series 2 or 3. Size 1000 GB. Bus Type ATA. SAme sectors. Again it seems they've already been married. If I then go to MFSadd, it says "you are about to write to Tivo Drive(s); Are you sure? This is what I got yesterday - before I had said okay to mfsadd. For now, I won't say yes
I would give it a shot. Alternately (or if it does not work), you can put the Upgrade drive in the TiVo, boot it up, and tell it to perform the divorce.

After that, put the drive back in the PC and run FixDivorce from WinMFS, and then add in the External drive and re-marry them.
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Old 06-21-2009, 07:39 PM   #3073
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Quick suggestion for POST 1.

So, being new to TiVo HD...

How New Are You?
I am so new I do not have them yet!

UPS says they are in Texas...will get here June 25th...the day after my Birthday in case anyone wants to know.

Anyway, I do have a suggestion that would be a big help.

In the first post of this Thread there is the very good FAQ and detail of everything you want to know about upgrading, etc.

It takes a bit to scroll down...especially if you know from a previous read that you want Section IV. Could links be added at the top with the section titles that would link us directly there?

ie:


I. Summary of Expansion Options
II. Introduction
III. Officially Supported External Drives (also known as "TiVo Verified" drives)
IV. Unsupported External Drives (also known as "Non-Verified" drives)
V. Internal Drive Upgrades

If those...and the others had a direct link that takes you to the section we wanted it would be a big help.

Thank you,
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Old 06-21-2009, 08:37 PM   #3074
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lrhorer - honestly - I've connected and unconnected this stuff so many times, that I don't know if I got the order wrong every time. I know the last time I had plugged the external drive in before powering up the Tivo - but didn't realize until after I powered up the Tivo that the hard switch was off on the esata drive. I put it on - but perhaps doing it out of sequence caused it to fail. The times I tried last night, I cannot recall the order - bc. I did not know there was a recommended order to powering these things up. (It would be nice if that were included in the first section too. Step 21 currently says, "#


# Reinstall the internal drive, replace the TiVo's outer case, and connect the eSATA drive.

# You're done." For a newbie like me, I guess that just wasn't specific enough instruction. I think I did see elsewhere on this thread today (or somewhere in my hours of online research today) that the order mattered. Again, I just don't know if I ever got the order right. maybe that was the only problem.

So I'll re-marry - and guess if it's already married, a second ceremony won't hurt anything. If it doesn't work, I'll do the divorce as you suggested - return to winmfs and try again.

Just one more thing to be sure - by "power brick" (a new term to me), you mean the little box that has a cord attaching to the esata enclosure and another cord coming out and ending in a standard plug that plugs into a wall socket? That is what I used. And since that seemed to work, I can see that I can get that double estata port. For now, I just put the single esata port in my pc (the one the antec mx-1 came with).

Okay - here I go again. Surely the ninth time is the charm.
Thanks again for your patience and guidance.

Lynn.
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:38 PM   #3075
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YIPPEE! Finally - done. Tivo HD with 1TB internal hard drive and 1TB external hard drive. FWIW, all my recorded shows had transferred to the new internal drive in the hour it took MSFcopy to copy from the original drive.

I tried to remarry the drives - it failed and said there was no more space on the drive. So again, it seemed the external drive was already married. So I unhooked drives from the pc and installed in the Tivo and Esata enclosure. This time, I turned on the esata drive first and powered the Tivo last. It went through the initial warm up - gave the screen "almost there" - Then in the few minutes I was gone to tuck my daughter in, the screen was blank. I didn't know whether it had said anything about the external drive or not. I could not get a Tivo screen back up.

So I unplugged the Tivo- waited a minute - repowered the Tivo. And the entire set up worked - the external drive shows up. All is well. I don't know why it didn't work the time before - but it did this time.

Thanks for all the help.
Lynn.
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:48 PM   #3076
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YIPPEE! Finally - done. Tivo HD with 1TB internal hard drive and 1TB external hard drive. FWIW, all my recorded shows had transferred to the new internal drive in the hour it took MSFcopy to copy from the original drive.

I tried to remarry the drives - it failed and said there was no more space on the drive. So again, it seemed the external drive was already married. So I unhooked drives from the pc and installed in the Tivo and Esata enclosure. This time, I turned on the esata drive first and powered the Tivo last. It went through the initial warm up - gave the screen "almost there" - Then in the few minutes I was gone to tuck my daughter in, the screen was blank. I didn't know whether it had said anything about the external drive or not. I could not get a Tivo screen back up.

So I unplugged the Tivo- waited a minute - repowered the Tivo. And the entire set up worked - the external drive shows up. All is well. I don't know why it didn't work the time before - but it did this time.

Thanks for all the help.
Lynn.
How many hours do you have now?
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:52 PM   #3077
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YIPPEE! Finally - done. Tivo HD with 1TB internal hard drive and 1TB external hard drive. FWIW, all my recorded shows had transferred to the new internal drive in the hour it took MSFcopy to copy from the original drive.
I knew if I waited long enough you'd get it! Apologies, I've been away for the better part of two days and didn't have time to get back into the mix. I'm glad several of our knowledgeable friends were able to assist you with your goal. I'm even happier that everything is as it should be. Nice work!

BTW, if you ever have to move your setup:

Powering TiVo and eSATA drive down:

1. Disconnect/unplug TiVo
2. Turn off and unplug the eSATA drive
3. Unplug the eSATA cable from TiVo and the eSATA drive

Setting TiVo back up

1. Connect the eSATA cable to the eSATA drive and TiVo
2. Connect the eSATA drive to power and turn it on (wait 10 seconds or so for the drive to spin up)
3. Connect power to TiVo

The official TiVo instructions can be found here as well.

Basically you just don't want to unplug or turn off the eSATA drive while TiVo is plugged in as it will ask to divorce the drive. As long as TiVo is unplugged you can pretty much do whatever you need to do with the eSATA drive. Just make sure the drive is on and plugged into TiVo before plugging TiVo back in.

Congrats and welcome to the club!
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:01 PM   #3078
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Thabto - I now have 318 Hd hours or 2777 SD hours. That should keep me busy for a few months. That's just the Tivo HD. On my Tivo 2 I have a 500GB hard drive (don't think this preformatted drive was mfssupersized - so probably about 600 SD hours there. And then there's my PC - where I can transfer shows and store there if needed. After this, I think it will be easy for my to add a second internal 1TB hard drive to my PC.

Thanks Rich. Glad to be part of the club. And I appreciate the instructions for unplugging, replugging, moving any of these in the future. (It really would help us newbies to put more instructions in the first part with order of reconnecting after upgrading).

Thanks to all for your generosity and wisdom.
Lynn.
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:56 AM   #3079
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Hello Rich:

Am I welcome too?
It's like Groucho said..."I don't want to join a club that will accept me as a member". But of course you're welcome. Just be careful not to let anyone else know who you're associating with.

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...but I do want to wait for the 3 of them to at least warm up. Seriously...is 1 Month AFTER M-Cards safe enough?

I guess my sig says it all!
Waiting a month before upgrading is a very good idea. That way you'll know that everything is running as it should.

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Old 06-22-2009, 12:46 PM   #3080
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Thanks Rich.

I now need to call Comcast to see if I can get 3 M-Cards in our area.

Cover me...I'm goin in!!
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:18 PM   #3081
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Many Thanks

Hello All -

Just wanted to post a thank you for everyone's valuable info. I got a used TivoHD, got a new 1TB WD10EADS from NewEgg on sale in one day shipped for less than 90 bucks.. I used the upgrade internal retain settings - I think it was section V - and it worked quickly and flawlessly... I am now up and running with my new drive - have an M Cable Card with Cablevision and the Tuning adapter, and so far so good.. I got the lifetime service for $299 - so now I have turned in my crappy Sci Atl. Cable DVR that I have been paying 16.99 a month for and my whole investment should pay off in less than two years... I have not had the setup for long enough to comment on the cable card performance, etc, but will do so in that cablevision forum after I have some data to comment on..

THANK YOU
GOOD STUFF
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:47 PM   #3082
spocko
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For my money (and time), I'd stay away from using Samsung drives with TiVo for now no matter how compelling the price.
Thanks for posting the results of your test. I was curious about that drive too.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:05 PM   #3083
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It's like Groucho said..."I don't want to join a club that will accept me as a member". But of course you're welcome. Just be careful not to let anyone else know who you're associating with.
I told the other forum members not to feed you or you would just keep coming back. See what happened?
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:30 PM   #3084
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I told the other forum members not to feed you or you would just keep coming back. See what happened?
Funny, on a Ham Radio Forum I am on My Avatar says "Do Not Feed The Trolls"!
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:40 AM   #3085
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I told the other forum members not to feed you or you would just keep coming back. See what happened?
Strays are the same wherever you go.
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:07 AM   #3086
moscovitzd
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Tivo HDs for Dad, drive size advice

I got two Tivo HDs for my Dad. Is there any value in installing 1.5 TB drives internally in a Tivo HD? I'm trying to decide between 1 TB and 1.5 TB drives and he does not want external.

Thank you!
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:08 AM   #3087
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I got two Tivo HDs for my Dad. Is there any value in installing 1.5 TB drives internally in a Tivo HD? I'm trying to decide between 1 TB and 1.5 TB drives and he does not want external.

Thank you!
Congrats on the new TiVo's!

Everything you need to know is included in the first post of this thread. Section IV, #30 is specifically what you're looking for.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:24 AM   #3088
MPSAN
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Strays are the same wherever you go.
OK, be that way! See if we ever go to LO for dinner and a Play again!
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:32 PM   #3089
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OK, be that way! See if we ever go to LO for dinner and a Play again!
Ha! When I said "strays" I was actually referring to myself. Saaayyyy...do I know you? You don't have to admit it here of course...but P.M. me if so. I might have to give out legit advice to someone that knows where I live.
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:12 PM   #3090
MPSAN
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Ha! When I said "strays" I was actually referring to myself. Saaayyyy...do I know you? You don't have to admit it here of course...but P.M. me if so. I might have to give out legit advice to someone that knows where I live.
OH, I am not sure...although a good friend who worked for me at FJ in Hillsboro, and now is at Sun lives in LO. We used to go out on his boat, too.

MPSAN...aka Dave
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