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Old 05-15-2009, 07:42 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by blam View Post
Well, they keep on coming up with new ways to put ads on my menu. So I have to keep posting about it.



Unlike you, I don't want customers to leave TiVo. So I help by complaining so that they make things better.

You don't look at the ads, so don't look at my posts.

TiVo Meeting Room -
Oh No - there are 200 posts by 12 people on TCF - we need to rethink everything.

One is even starting whole new threads about it

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Old 05-15-2009, 07:45 PM   #32
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I think because it sets a new precedent. Tivo is now displaying ads while we're watching a show (please let's not get into a debate as to whether pause is considered part of watching a show - the show is on screen, and so is the ad).
so you say something that is incorrect and we are not allowed to debate that? I don't know about you but I don't think the plot develops fast enough when the show is paused.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:00 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo View Post
so you say something that is incorrect and we are not allowed to debate that? I don't know about you but I don't think the plot develops fast enough when the show is paused.
It is a judgement call... depending on why you hit the pause key (to stop the programming; or to take a closer look at the current frame). Don't think there is a right or wrong side of this debate as it applies to the individual's use.

And I don't want to get into an argument with you over this as, from what I have read of your posts, you seem a level headed guy who does not feel this latest "addition" to be invasive enough to care about.

But can you say with authority that if everyone just ignores this that there won't be something even more invasive added in the future? I can't... therefore I think it important to go on the record now.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:24 PM   #34
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But can you say with authority that if everyone just ignores this that there won't be something even more invasive added in the future? I can't... therefore I think it important to go on the record now.
actually I have said that ads are an inevitable part of a capitalist society and that ads will always seek that place where they get notice and become effective to the one advertising something. Thus ads will be a part of any media I consume without directly paying for the creation of that content.

So the ads in places on the TiVo that do not make me change how I use the remote to watch a show do not bother me as I see TiVo as being ahead of the curve on the new ground that Ads will seek and find as DVRs make 30 sec spots between content blocks unproductive for advertisers. I can click to go deeper or look right past them as i elect.

So if I pause a show to look at some detail in a frame - I have in the past hit clear to remove the status bar. I actually learned an slightly easier method of hitting FF after pause and that clears it as well without having to shift my hand to get to the clear button.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:57 PM   #35
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I have said that ads are an inevitable part of a capitalist society and that ads will always seek that place where they get notice and become effective
So you'd be ok with having to press a totally separate button to clear a popup taking up a large area of the screen during RW, Advance, and FF?

What about having to go through and clear another ad filled screen to play one of your recordings (regardlessly whether you pressed the Play key or not)?

Where is the line in the sand for you? And if one exists, why is it unreasonable for this to be approaching the line in the sand for others?
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:03 PM   #36
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The ads dont bother me one bit. The ads are in places that do not affect my ability to effectively navigate the UI and they are keeping my subscription rates down. I actually have to go out of my way to click on one if it interests me, which I do because some do interest me.

When your subscriptions go up an extra 2, 4, 6 dollars a month, how will you feel about revenue driving ads then?
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:07 PM   #37
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My personal "line" would be interstatial ads -- you must watch this ad before you can view your programming.

Anyway, don't count on Verizon's UI staying ad-free. All the cable-company offered cable boxes I've used have ads in their UI.
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:31 PM   #38
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By the way, I so rarely hit the pause button till this is just a non factor for me. Why do so many people hit the pause button so often?
You watch every single show entirely the way through on one shot? Or always go back to now playing instead of pausing?

(Answering a probable troll...)
Reasons I pause:
1) nature calls
2) to make note of something on the screen, especially
2B) Chuck Lorre vanity cards
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:37 PM   #39
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Do you really think your complaining helps?

If you let them know, constructively, through proper channels that you have issues, it does more then anything you do here, moreso if it's the only thing you do hear. After awhile you're little more then whitenoise.
I disagree. Unfortunately, many companies refuse to fix a mistake or recognize a problem until you make it a big deal. Making it a "big deal" often involves complaining about it via alternative channels rather than just contacting customer service. I'll agree; we seem to be getting bombarded with these complaints lately but you're directing your anger towards the wrong people. If we're getting bombarded with complaints here it should tell you a lot of people are finding it worth complaining about and are using alternative channels to vent that anger. Tivo does in fact actively monitor these forums; they even provide a link on the Tivo software itself to this very forum. (Found in the 'Tivo Search' beta) So I can't really say I blame people for complaining here.

I do wish a dedicated sticky could be made regarding all advertising and any other posts regarding it should be merged or locked. Not only would it provide Tivo a single thread to look at if they so choose; it'd also minimize the annoyance of seeing these threads daily.
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:20 PM   #40
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Yep and the best defense so far is.. I don't look at the Tivo's screen.. so ads don't bother me.

PLEASE!

If you hit PAUSE not to look at your screen.. fine.. but it is called PAUSE and not STOP. If you want ads.. call it STOP. Pause conveys the full image is visible. This is MISLEADING ADVERTISING then when Tivo says you can PAUSE a live TV show by hitting one button.

What's next.. hitting REWIND causes a Frito Lay commercial to come on screen and your show starts at the beginning after the commercial.. That's also not REWIND.

FU TIVO!
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:25 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by bschuler2007 View Post
. Pause conveys the full image is visible.
Show me ANYTHING that conveys that, ever.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:05 PM   #42
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Yep and the best defense so far is.. I don't look at the Tivo's screen.. so ads don't bother me.

PLEASE!

If you hit PAUSE not to look at your screen.. fine.. but it is called PAUSE and not STOP. If you want ads.. call it STOP. Pause conveys the full image is visible. This is MISLEADING ADVERTISING then when Tivo says you can PAUSE a live TV show by hitting one button.

What's next.. hitting REWIND causes a Frito Lay commercial to come on screen and your show starts at the beginning after the commercial.. That's also not REWIND.

FU TIVO!
I had no idea you felt this way.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:18 PM   #43
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:19 PM   #44
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How about going through the proper channels?

http://research.tivo.com/suggestions/2web519.htm

Look at the logo for this site: "This is not part of Tivo, Inc."
Thanks for that.

The pause ads are super annoying. When my prepaid 2year sub is up I might dump cable and TiVo and go with DirecTV. The pause ads are the last straw.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:21 PM   #45
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Anyway, don't count on Verizon's UI staying ad-free. All the cable-company offered cable boxes I've used have ads in their UI.
Verizon wants to differentiate and distance itself from cable companies in order to take away cable customers so I don't see them putting ads in the DVR.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:27 PM   #46
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:58 PM   #47
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I think because it sets a new precedent. Tivo is now displaying ads while we're watching a show (please let's not get into a debate as to whether pause is considered part of watching a show - the show is on screen, and so is the ad).
Technically the thumbs up and billboard ads set the precendent, though they are supposed to only display over commercials.

Personally I'd like a way to disable the "More Info" button or at least have it default to not showing if there's no actual ad. TiVo makes no money on the "More Info" button by itself, just the ads. As such I don't see why they'd be against this.
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:45 AM   #48
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The pause menu 'feature' definitely seems like it was deployed with little thought other than potential profit.
  • If it's a feature why not put it in the program info screen where everything else is?
  • Why offer the ability to hide it yet not make it stick?
  • Why offer the ability to hide it yet still add pointless text stating: "Press UP to show ads"? Oh wait.. I meant "extras".

I think the reason many people are annoyed by this feature is because it's blatantly obvious what the answer is to all of the above questions; profit. It's one of those in-your-face, you can't ignore me ads. It's similar to those ads you get when you close out your browser and suddenly it reopens with an ad. Furthermore, most people who pause their Tivo verify it actually paused by looking for the bar; which now conveniently contains the ad directly above it. (Does the word Oracea sound familiar to you?) Too bad Adblock Plus can't be ported over to Tivo.

I do have mixed feelings at times if you believe everything you hear regarding the future of Tivo and why they might be doing all this. One of the major points for the ads is that Tivo needs them to survive. The thing is if this is true than it's certainly not a good sign for Tivo's future. AOL was in the same exact situation and it's a miracle they are still around; although they are loosing customers in record numbers. They even had to resort to offering their service for free because the ads became so bad and blatantly obvious people started asking "Why am I paying for this again?" Another major thing occurred, it used to be AOL was the only user friendly way of chatting online. There was no other alternative; or at least one as user friendly as AOL was. Tivo currently is in the same situation. There is no other alternative that offers the same feature-set, or better, than Tivo right now. However, there are companies beginning to change this and within a few years I'm sure there will be several other products just as good, or perhaps even better, than Tivo. I sure hope we don't see Tivo become another AOL.

Disclaimer: Seriously, I love my Tivo. I Promise. I'm simply assessing the current situation of Tivo given the available facts. As of right now my TivoHD is my third favorite electronic gadget in my household. Second goes to my HDTV and first, my PC.
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:13 AM   #49
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You watch every single show entirely the way through on one shot? Or always go back to now playing instead of pausing?

(Answering a probable troll...)
Reasons I pause:
1) nature calls
2) to make note of something on the screen, especially
2B) Chuck Lorre vanity cards
Look at the number of posts I have here. Trolls don't typically survive here with that number.

1) When nature calls, I hit the TiVo button, not the pause button. But, if I did hit the pause button when nature calls, I would not be bothered by what's on the screen because I'm in the bathroom. But, I don't have a TV in the bathroom. Maybe you do.

2) Nope. Never done that. Can't imagine what you are looking at.

2B). Yes, my wife likes those also, so I hit the pause button, then the clear button. No big deal. If it was, I'd program the sequence in my Harmony remote.

So, twice a week I may hit the pause button. It's not enough of a deal to get me upset. Just chill.

Also, I don't know about the rest of TiVo owners but I didn't buy a TiVo to skip commercials. It's nice to do so, admittedly, but I do it to time-shift. Even if DVRs didn't allow me to FF, I'd still own one.
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Old 05-16-2009, 08:07 AM   #50
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...So, twice a week I may hit the pause button. It's not enough of a deal to get me upset. Just chill.

Also, I don't know about the rest of TiVo owners but I didn't buy a TiVo to skip commercials. It's nice to do so, admittedly, but I do it to time-shift. Even if DVRs didn't allow me to FF, I'd still own one.
BINGO....folks, we have a winner!
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Old 05-16-2009, 04:42 PM   #51
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BINGO....folks, we have a winner!
Yep and I bet he doesn't have the 30 second skip button enabled either.

He is one of the 12 Tivo owners that watches commercials.
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:06 PM   #52
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Yep and I bet he doesn't have the 30 second skip button enabled either.

He is one of the 12 Tivo owners that watches commercials.
What?
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Old 05-16-2009, 08:17 PM   #53
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I'm sick of all the Ads I see when I watch TV, so I'm done watching TV.
Wait, look at all those billboards out on the street. Now I'm done driving too. Did that movie just have product placement in it? Now I'm done with movies!
Did my alphabets cereal just spell out Coke? Now I'd done eating food!!
What just popped up on my browser, a spam ad? Well now I'm done with the internet!!!
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:17 PM   #54
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I'm sick of all the Ads I see when I watch TV, so I'm done watching TV.
Wait, look at all those billboards out on the street. Now I'm done driving too. Did that movie just have product placement in it? Now I'm done with movies!
Did my alphabets cereal just spell out Coke? Now I'd done eating food!!
What just popped up on my browser, a spam ad? Well now I'm done with the internet!!!
So, your response to the ads is to just take it.

Just roll over. There is nothing you can do about it.

So do nothing. Remain quiet while others dictate your destiny to you.

And to top it off, you make fun of the people that make the choice to become vocal about something that they do not accept?

Seriously, it is this kind of passive non-reaction to oppression that sends the signal that we like what they're doing and, please can we have some more?

When exactly will it be too much for you to tolerate? When 75% of the screen is covered with a continuous ad that you cannot dismiss by any action?

Ridiculing those you do not agree with will not cause them to alter their beliefs.
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:25 PM   #55
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I finally broke down and reprogrammed the pause button on my universal remote to run a two command macro ('pause' and 'down'). Presto, no more pause ads.
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Old 05-16-2009, 09:32 PM   #56
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So, your response to the ads is to just take it.

Just roll over. There is nothing you can do about it.

So do nothing. Remain quiet while others dictate your destiny to you.

And to top it off, you make fun of the people that make the choice to become vocal about something that they do not accept?

Seriously, it is this kind of passive non-reaction to oppression that sends the signal that we like what they're doing and, please can we have some more?

When exactly will it be too much for you to tolerate? When 75% of the screen is covered with a continuous ad that you cannot dismiss by any action?

Ridiculing those you do not agree with will not cause them to alter their beliefs.
Opression?

Really?

TiVo is oppressing you?

and you expect to be taken seriosly?
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:20 PM   #57
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Opression?

Really?

TiVo is oppressing you?

and you expect to be taken seriosly?
I was making a generalization of passive behavior.

I didn't really mean it to be specific to TiVo.

Being passive will never provide a desired result. It is only through taking the position of offense that will create an impact and lasting change.

If you choose not to take me seriously, I could simply not care less.
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:31 PM   #58
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I was making a generalization of passive behavior.

I didn't really mean it to be specific to TiVo.

Being passive will never provide a desired result. It is only through taking the position of offense that will create an impact and lasting change.

If you choose not to take me seriously, I could simply not care less.
If the only action taken in your distaste of the actions of TiVo is to complain here then it serves as no more then lip service and is meaningless.

The way change is made is through action. You and others can bitch all you want about the ads, but so what. You're still using the service. You're not taking an offensive action, you're just a noise in the background.
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Old 05-17-2009, 05:43 AM   #59
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Well said. And the repetition nature of these threads is just a desperate attempt on the part of critics to try to find an unrebutted soap-box from which they can spew their personal frustration and anger. However, discussion forums are not the appropriate venue for an unrebutted soap-box. If you want to bitch about something where people won't call you out on the lack of scope or circumstance of what you're bitching about, look into a blog or post to your Facebook page. Post to a discussion board if you want to read both messages both in support and in opposition.
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Old 05-17-2009, 05:44 AM   #60
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Complaints on TC accomplishing few things.
1. They show TiVo management that regardless how upset some TiVo users are, they will not jump the ship and at worse they will re-program their universal remotes.
2. Perhaps some people who came to this forum for a help on deciding on TiVo purchase will be discouraged to do so. So what. Considering that total TiVo sales are dismal, lost sales would be a drop in a bucket.
3. They mobilize small time TiVo shareholders to post replies and to explain everybody that TiVo needs to make money.
4. They provide entertaining reading. It is fun to read pros and cons on the obvious topic. Of course just about everybody (except for the TiVo shareholders) would love to get rid of the ads. But justifications people come up with for the ads to stay and proclamations of anger over these ads are really funny at times.
5. They bump the traffic in Coffee House. Without this topic there would almost nothing to talk about.
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