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Old 02-18-2009, 10:13 AM   #451
tzone
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Originally Posted by joeysmith View Post
I got my null modem adapter the day after my connecting problem cleared up. I was all set to try the hack but didn't need it. I don't think there are that many turbonet problems anymore. The only one I am aware of is dlee708's mother's TIVO (somebody correct me if I am wrong here). Since my issue cleared up I have not had one single failure. Have not had a chance to test dialup again. I did get a failure the last time I tried.
Not true. I for one am still having turbonet issues and have been providing TiVoJerry info/captures on the side. Also keep in mind that my S1 unit has been working reliably with a turbonet card for about 5 years up until recently. Additionally, the two S3 units in my house have had zero issues, so there certainly is something funky happening on the S1 side.

Maybe TiVoJerry could pop in here and provide a status update. Even if it was something as simple as, "we're still looking into it", it would be better than what we have to date (which is currently nothing).

/troy
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:01 AM   #452
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Not true. I for one am still having turbonet issues and have been providing TiVoJerry info/captures on the side. Also keep in mind that my S1 unit has been working reliably with a turbonet card for about 5 years up until recently. Additionally, the two S3 units in my house have had zero issues, so there certainly is something funky happening on the S1 side.

Maybe TiVoJerry could pop in here and provide a status update. Even if it was something as simple as, "we're still looking into it", it would be better than what we have to date (which is currently nothing).

/troy
are you totally unable to connect? have you ruled out hw issues? mine turned out to be a partially seated turbonet (also worked reliably for years). the led light on the board turned on as if it was working, and it got the link light on my switch lit as well. i did have dialup issues so i know it wasn't just the turbonet.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:15 AM   #453
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Originally Posted by joeysmith View Post
are you totally unable to connect? have you ruled out hw issues? mine turned out to be a partially seated turbonet (also worked reliably for years). the led light on the board turned on as if it was working, and it got the link light on my switch lit as well. i did have dialup issues so i know it wasn't just the turbonet.
Check many of the previous posts. This isn't a "non-connect" or "broken networking" issue (like you were having) -- this is a "networking works, we talk to TiVo, we exchange quite a few packets -- then TiVo stops talking to us" issue. In several of the previous communications traces, you can see that we continue to TRY to talk to TiVo, and TiVo doesn't respond. Then, when we "give up" and announce our intent to disconnect, the very server that isn't responding to the data that we're sending acknowledges the disconnect. Which I'll be quick to point out couldn't happen if there was a lack of (or a dropped) connection.

And then there's the other side of the issue -- in many cases, simply re-trying the connection another time, or two-- or three -- will finally yield a successful connection. Local hardware issues don't USUALLY go away by themselves without a reboot/restart/whatever.

And the 3rd leg of the stool: While we can't (easily) get dumps from ppp, one can view the tclient and tcdebug logs, and one can see the same sort of "behavior" in those logs as one sees on turbonet, so there is that as well.

So, while it's undoubtedly the situation that some of the issues out there aren't TiVo issues (witness yours as one handy example), there is *definitely* "something" going on that is out of user control. In my opinion, anyhow.

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Old 02-18-2009, 11:20 AM   #454
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are you totally unable to connect? have you ruled out hw issues? mine turned out to be a partially seated turbonet (also worked reliably for years). the led light on the board turned on as if it was working, and it got the link light on my switch lit as well. i did have dialup issues so i know it wasn't just the turbonet.
The issue is sporadic at best, however I'm fairly confident that it is not a HW issue at this point (I've already swapped turbonet cards with another that I have). I've also reimaged the drive in the unit (TWICE) to see if that helps (it does not). Also, see my previous post where I captured the failure from TiVo's side (HTTP/1.1 500 Internal Server Error). They should have a good data point, as I was able to capture that server error in a Wireshark file and I did send it to TiVoJerry for review (and dlee for that matter). I think we're seeing a legitimate issue on TiVo's side and I'd like to hear for sure whether TiVo has identified the problem or not.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...56#post7071556

/troy
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:05 PM   #455
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<snip>
So, while it's undoubtedly the situation that some of the issues out there aren't TiVo issues (witness yours as one handy example), there is *definitely* "something" going on that is out of user control. In my opinion, anyhow.

BittMann
actually i did have issues, specifically with dialup while my turbonet was out of commission and it was just not working at all. it was just at one point that someone reported that things cleared up that i thought to dial out to the west coast. this somehow got me all the way through guided setup and downloads. it was only after that i figured out my turbonet problem and i got that going as well. since then it has been flawless, but one time i performed some dialup tests to the local numbers i did get another failure. i have the sense that a band-aid solution was put in place that gets people thru eventually. this is why i am questioning whether there are turbonets out there that could not get thru at all.

Last edited by joeysmith : 02-18-2009 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:23 PM   #456
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Check many of the previous posts. This isn't a "non-connect" or "broken networking" issue (like you were having) -- this is a "networking works, we talk to TiVo, we exchange quite a few packets -- then TiVo stops talking to us" issue. In several of the previous communications traces, you can see that we continue to TRY to talk to TiVo, and TiVo doesn't respond. Then, when we "give up" and announce our intent to disconnect, the very server that isn't responding to the data that we're sending acknowledges the disconnect. Which I'll be quick to point out couldn't happen if there was a lack of (or a dropped) connection.

BittMann
Not sure it makes any difference, but on my mothers Tivo this isn't quite what happens. The Tivo sends the first large packet, then no response from Server, this repeats for like 3 minutes, the Server then sends a Internal Error packet with an ack which indicates the server did not receive the first large packet, then the server sends a FIN packet (end connection) with the wrong ACK as far as the Tivo is concerned, the Tivo then ACKs with the correct Seq number it was expecting from the Server (it doesn't send a FIN back yet because there are outstanding packets that have not been acknowledged by the server) and then the Tivo Server sends a RST packet (blow the connection no matter what) and then the Tivo ACKs the RST packet with a Seq number that matches the Seq/ACK received from the TivoServer.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:30 PM   #457
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It's been a while since I've posted on this subject, but I have an update that I wanted to share. Since mid-January, I had been succeeding with dialup calls (external modem) only about 1 out of 10 calls. Nonetheless, it was barely enough to keep me from running out of guide data. TurboNet hasn't worked since 12/2/08. I wanted to get telnet working so I could see what was going on, but since I had other/bigger fish to fry in my life I ignored the S1 problem for a while.

Today, I realized instantcake had already set me up with a working telnet server to my S1 years ago that I never realized.

Long story short, I telnet'ed in and watched the log as I tried to use the TurboNet... Failed during the testing new call options phase (no new news here). I then tried deleting all files in the /var/logs directory (from some of the advice of others on this thread) and... <drum roll>... IT WORKED!

Since it was only a test of the call options, I then told it to make the Daily Call and... that worked too! That is literally the first successful TurboNet call since before 12/2/08.

I'll let you know if it starts dying again. I'll check on it daily. Based on my experience, this HAS to do with the svclog (or the svclog.upload that get's generated during the daily call) as it get's posted to mlog.cgi in some way. I'll try to track how large svclog gets and if it leads to another future failure.

For now, I'm just astonished that it worked.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:47 PM   #458
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I then tried deleting all files in the /var/logs directory and... <drum roll>... IT WORKED!

Since it was only a test of the call options, I then told it to make the Daily Call and... that worked too! That is literally the first successful TurboNet call since before 12/2/08.
This mirrors my experience exactly. Deleting the logs will ensure that the next call completes.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:19 PM   #459
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This mirrors my experience exactly. Deleting the logs will ensure that the next call completes.
OOOOhhhhhh, you guys are killing me. I am SOOOOOOO kicking myself for not setting up telnetd in my moms Tivo when I put in the larger hard-drive or added the TurboNet.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:34 AM   #460
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OOOOhhhhhh, you guys are killing me. I am SOOOOOOO kicking myself for not setting up telnetd in my moms Tivo when I put in the larger hard-drive or added the TurboNet.
Isn't it enabled by default when you install the drivers?

If FTP is running you could use it to delete the logs probably.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:11 PM   #461
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Isn't it enabled by default when you install the drivers?

If FTP is running you could use it to delete the logs probably.
I added the 2nd hard drive a very long time ago and don't remember exactly what I did, but I am pretty sure I didn't have to add any drivers.

I added the TurboNet card about 6 months ago and am positve I didn't have to do anything but install the card (didn't have to take the drive out). I believe I remember reading that drivers are already installed for the TurboNet card.

But the next chance I can hook up with my mom I will see if I can get ftp access to it just in case I get lucky. Is there a login/password or just root and blank for password?
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:39 PM   #462
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Login is bypassed. If you can telnet to the TiVo, you'll get a command prompt.

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Old 02-19-2009, 04:07 PM   #463
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So has anyone found a solution to this? I have a Series 1 and am having issues downloading data. Many times I am able to start the download and connect but it seems to drop the connection.
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:42 PM   #464
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So has anyone found a solution to this? I have a Series 1 and am having issues downloading data. Many times I am able to start the download and connect but it seems to drop the connection.
The temporary solution, if you have access, is to delete all log files in the /var/log directory. This doesn't fix the underlying problem, but it will allow you to make a successful call.
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Old 02-19-2009, 04:46 PM   #465
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The temporary solution, if you have access, is to delete all log files in the /var/log directory. This doesn't fix the underlying problem, but it MAY allow you to make a successful call.
Fixed that for you...

/troy
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Old 02-19-2009, 06:31 PM   #466
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Hello good people. I had just converted the daily call to using the PPP over serial method several weeks ago in the midst of all these daily call failures. I have a Philips series 1 box.

Should I be able to boot the diagnostic mode with the "factory" password to get a bash prompt and then clear out the /var/logs logs?

I've removed the Local Connection and modem for the PPP setup in windows and fired up Hyperterm, but I can't seem to get any prompt or any type of communication when connected at 9600/8/1/N/ or 115000/8/1/N and power cycling the tivo.
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:22 PM   #467
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Fixed that for you...

/troy
Thanks for "fixing" it, but it works without fail for me and at least one other person. Have you had an experience to the contrary?
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:23 PM   #468
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Wow, is this still going on? I pitched my S1 in December due to this problem and moved to an HD. I never would have guessed that Tivo could drag it out this long. I thought it was clearly a server side issue based on a change that must have occurred on or about 12/2/08. Hard to believe it's almost March and this thread is still active.
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:27 PM   #469
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Just a quick note to touch base. I have erniebert's serial modem setup here and have been running tests. It failed multiple times and then decided to start cooperating by connecting twice in a row to get through GS.

I've also encountered the issue personally at two customer homes using unmodified units connecting with the internal modem. Multiple attempts eventually got them through as well. We also have a turbonet card but the unit it's connected to hasn't failed to connect. Despite the fact that log deletions seem to work for some of you, a pattern has yet to emerge that tells us what the root cause is. Engineering continues to press the investigation and I am trying to help them in any way I can.

For those of you who sent me your TSN and are connecting via a phone line (internal or external modem), are you still having the same problem (service unavailable, call interrupted)? If not, what have you changed? Did you change to a different number, change the dialing from 11 to 7 digits, did you have to resort to deleting logs, or did it just magically resolve itself? Feel free to post your reply or send me a PM. If you haven't sent me your TSN yet, PM me to add to my tracking doc and make sure to include the TSN in your message.

We're not excluding the ethernet folks, it's just simpler for me to focus on phone patterns at this moment since we have even less control of the www.
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:44 PM   #470
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PLEASE JERRY! FIX THE MODEM CONNECTION!

I MISS MY TIVO! I DON'T WANT TO END UP GETTING A COMCAST DVR!

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Old 02-19-2009, 08:10 PM   #471
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Thanks for "fixing" it, but it works without fail for me and at least one other person. Have you had an experience to the contrary?
Yes, I have had an experience to the contrary. Removing the logs does not ALWAYS seem to fix the issue. My unit still requires multiple call attempts sometimes to make a successful connection (via turbonet). TiVoJerry's recent post even seems to elude to the fact that removing the logs does not work for everyone.

/troy

Last edited by tzone : 02-19-2009 at 09:46 PM. Reason: changed "clearing" to "removing" to remove ambiguity as per Pianoman's post below - Thanks!
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:35 PM   #472
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Clearing the logs does not ALWAYS seem to fix the issue.
Semantics, I know, but when you say "clearing the logs", do you mean deleting the files? What has worked for me is completely removing (deleting) all of the files in /var/log. They are recreated in short order by the TiVo, but the next call succeeds for me.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:44 PM   #473
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Semantics, I know, but when you say "clearing the logs", do you mean deleting the files? What has worked for me is completely removing (deleting) all of the files in /var/log. They are recreated in short order by the TiVo, but the next call succeeds for me.
Yes, you are correct. It does appear that my statement was ambiguous, but I did in fact mean clear as in remove (rm /var/log/*).

/troy
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:45 PM   #474
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For those of you who sent me your TSN and are connecting via a phone line (internal or external modem), are you still having the same problem (service unavailable, call interrupted)? If not, what have you changed? Did you change to a different number, change the dialing from 11 to 7 digits, did you have to resort to deleting logs, or did it just magically resolve itself? Feel free to post your reply or send me a PM.
I am still having these problems. Internal or external modem, 11 or 7 digits, 19,200 or 38,400 baud speed, and different dial in numbers doesn't matter as they all eventually exhibit the same problems. It's just a try try and try again and one of them will eventually go through. Sometimes I cannot connect at all, while others will connect and fail to complete a download.

I'm glad you're seeing these problems first hand; hopefully your engineering team will be able to resolve this fairly soon.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:50 PM   #475
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Semantics, I know, but when you say "clearing the logs", do you mean deleting the files? What has worked for me is completely removing (deleting) all of the files in /var/log. They are recreated in short order by the TiVo, but the next call succeeds for me.
How do you clear the logs? Do you have to connect it to a PC? I'm a total Nob on this stuff
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:52 PM   #476
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Just a quick note to touch base. I have erniebert's serial modem setup here and have been running tests. It failed multiple times and then decided to start cooperating by connecting twice in a row to get through GS.

I've also encountered the issue personally at two customer homes using unmodified units connecting with the internal modem. Multiple attempts eventually got them through as well. We also have a turbonet card but the unit it's connected to hasn't failed to connect. Despite the fact that log deletions seem to work for some of you, a pattern has yet to emerge that tells us what the root cause is. Engineering continues to press the investigation and I am trying to help them in any way I can.

For those of you who sent me your TSN and are connecting via a phone line (internal or external modem), are you still having the same problem (service unavailable, call interrupted)? If not, what have you changed? Did you change to a different number, change the dialing from 11 to 7 digits, did you have to resort to deleting logs, or did it just magically resolve itself? Feel free to post your reply or send me a PM. If you haven't sent me your TSN yet, PM me to add to my tracking doc and make sure to include the TSN in your message.

We're not excluding the ethernet folks, it's just simpler for me to focus on phone patterns at this moment since we have even less control of the www.
Jerry,

So for those of us that are able to snoop turbonet traffic, should we continue to do so? Would those additional captures be of any benefit to the team looking into this issue? Is there anything else in particular that we should attempt to capture to assist?

/troy
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:58 PM   #477
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How do you clear the logs? Do you have to connect it to a PC? I'm a total Nob on this stuff
In order to clear the logs, you would need telnet access to your unit. Telnet however is not something that is enabled by default so you would need to add that to your S1 first. It's not all that difficult to do, but if you're a Noob (your words), then it may not be something that you want to start with. If you're feeling like it's something that you want to try, then the instructions for adding telnetd can be found in this forum.

/troy
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Old 02-20-2009, 03:02 AM   #478
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I had not had a successful daily call thru PPP over serial since Feb 9. Earlier today I tried setting the MTU on my router down to 1200 and I saw alot more packets flowing, but eventually got the Failed Service not available error. Then I tried 1300, 1400, 1500, 1460, 1492 -- all failed. So finally I decided to go really small and set it to 900, and the daily call completed. I'll run some more tests as I have time -- switching back and forth between 900 and 1492 -- probably not until Friday night.
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Old 02-20-2009, 04:19 AM   #479
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For those of you who sent me your TSN and are connecting via a phone line (internal or external modem), are you still having the same problem (service unavailable, call interrupted)? If not, what have you changed? Did you change to a different number, change the dialing from 11 to 7 digits, did you have to resort to deleting logs, or did it just magically resolve itself?
Jerry, most recently my S1 has mostly been able to connect. I have noticed at least one or two Call Interrupted and Service Unavailable errors, but a subsequent forced call was able to go through. I have not changed a thing since sending you the TSN; it seemed to [mostly] magically resolve itself.
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Old 02-20-2009, 06:00 AM   #480
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Same here as with dbranco. Sent Jerry the TSN for my S1 last night, then tried once more to force calls to go through. The 5th try at 12:04 went through and finally have program data again. I hope this means the issue on the tivo end is resolved. We'll see if the next scheduled update makes it on its own.
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