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Old 01-13-2009, 04:41 PM   #181
paNX2K&SE-R
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I was having the same problem with calls to our local access number failing at the connecting stage over and over. I redid the setup and tried using the 800# at the bottom of the list and it was able to then make a successful call right away.
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:32 PM   #182
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Mine just succeeded on its own. Tues 1/13 02:22AM PST.

But I've been seeing "call interrupted" or "service unavailable" periodically too.

Series 1 HDR112
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:01 PM   #183
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Still no luck here. Whenever I check the last call attempt has failed.
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:56 AM   #184
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mec, have you tried forcing the call? Yesterday, it took A DOZEN attempts (nine "service unavailable" and two which got to "Downloading..." but ended in "Call Interrupted" before the final successful download completed the update.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:26 PM   #185
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We'd like to believe that people from TiVo read these forums and take note of every problem that crops up, but the truth is, they don't always catch them all. So if you are all waiting for someone at TiVo to discover this issue on this forum, you may be waiting for a long time for this problem to get fixed.

Also it's obvious that, per people's experiences trying to get help with this issue through the regular customer support channels (as discussed in all of the various threads on this issue), that going that route is appears to be a dead end ("we've never heard of that problem... must be a problem with your TiVo...").

Has anybody with this problem sent a PM to TiVoPony, TiVoJerry, and/or TiVoStephen about this issue? They all work for TiVo and tend to assist when problems are brought to their attention.

My Series 1 has been decommissioned at this point, so this issue doesn't affect me, or I would be the one contacting these guys and making sure it gets dealt with properly.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:53 PM   #186
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I just spoke with a tech who asked me to forward him all the message board links and websites that are reporting this issue.
He was very nice, but also stated that he was unaware that there was a huge issue but would love more details and to see how widespread it is.
Can you fine people give me a list of sites/boards reporting this issue and I will forward them to him in a email!! Hopefully he can get this escalated?!?!?!? Just report the sites in this thread and I will keep checking them!!

Ernie
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Old 01-14-2009, 02:54 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by dbranco View Post
mec, have you tried forcing the call? Yesterday, it took A DOZEN attempts (nine "service unavailable" and two which got to "Downloading..." but ended in "Call Interrupted" before the final successful download completed the update.
Yep, see my earlier posts in this thread.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:47 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by erniebert View Post
I just spoke with a tech who asked me to forward him all the message board links and websites that are reporting this issue.
He was very nice, but also stated that he was unaware that there was a huge issue but would love more details and to see how widespread it is.
Can you fine people give me a list of sites/boards reporting this issue and I will forward them to him in a email!! Hopefully he can get this escalated?!?!?!? Just report the sites in this thread and I will keep checking them!!

Ernie
The only other one I found (and it has very few posts about this) is

http://deal data base.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60316

(take the spaces out of deal data base)

The 3 threads on this forum is

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=413018
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=410172
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=413232

For sure EVERYONE who is having problems needs to call in and report a problem.
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:43 AM   #189
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For sure EVERYONE who is having problems needs to call in and report a problem.
The problem with that is that either:

a) There is no communication whatsoever at TiVo and they really are not aware of the problems many are having.

b) They are aware but are afraid to admit the problem exists. (Remember Apple's "exploding" laptop batteries from a few years back?)
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:52 AM   #190
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BUMP

My Tivo is still 50-50. Last-second guide changes aren't guaranteed of getting downloaded in time.
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:35 AM   #191
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My Tivo completes about 33% of it's calls. Last nights call was successful but the previous two days calls failed.

I had planned to give this Tivo to my in-laws but I can't until this problem is fixed. Why no answers from Tivo? Why just Series 1?
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:41 PM   #192
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Hello all,

I apologize for not being able to post any updates before now, but travels have kept me and Bob away from most of the boards until recently. I can confirm that, while I'm not yet up to speed with the details, engineering has been aware of the issue and is actively investigating.

I'm sorry to hear that some of you have been having problems for so long. I'll be sure to let you all know when I hear more.
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:52 PM   #193
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Thanks Jerry -- it's great to know that it's being worked !!
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:29 PM   #194
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Yes, thank you Jerry
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Old 01-16-2009, 06:06 PM   #195
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Thumbs up

Thank You!
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Old 01-16-2009, 06:45 PM   #196
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Thank you very much!
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:28 PM   #197
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Yesterday, I sent a link to this post to the VP of Software Engineering at TiVo. He promised to take a look at it and get the right people working on it.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:56 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoJerry View Post
Hello all,

I apologize for not being able to post any updates before now, but travels have kept me and Bob away from most of the boards until recently. I can confirm that, while I'm not yet up to speed with the details, engineering has been aware of the issue and is actively investigating.

I'm sorry to hear that some of you have been having problems for so long. I'll be sure to let you all know when I hear more.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaa, one from me and one from my mom.

Thanks TivoJerry, I was starting to lose faith.
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Old 01-17-2009, 11:55 AM   #199
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Why just Series 1?
My theory:

Simply because Series 1 downloads are much slower (and thus need much more time) than Series 2 (and later). (I think Series 2 got a faster modem.)

That, in turn, is interacting with some sort of timeout problem at their end. Either the phones or the server or something is giving up after a certain number of minutes, perhaps mistakingly thinking that the connection is "hung".

Maybe someone was trying to solve a problem with hung connections with Series 2 or later, though they would fix this way, and didn't realize it would backfire with Series 1's slow downloads? (It could also be more complex: It's possible that the communications protocol for Series 2 is different than Series 1, and what is normal communication for Series 1 may resemble a hung connection with Series 2.)

Meanwhile, this implies a procedural problem: It sounds like the TiVo development team doesn't do "regression" testing of the simplest sort with Series 1 when they make a change to the daily call stuff!

Finally, that implies a prioritization problem: It sounds like Series 1 has dropped off their radar as an "important" product to make sure any new change (at their end) is compatible with.
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Old 01-18-2009, 03:17 AM   #200
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Simply because Series 1 downloads are much slower (and thus need much more time) than Series 2 (and later). (I think Series 2 got a faster modem.)
Many S1 users have no phone line connected to the TiVo and instead use an internet connection

Quote:
Meanwhile, this implies a procedural problem: It sounds like the TiVo development team doesn't do "regression" testing of the simplest sort with Series 1 when they make a change to the daily call stuff!

Finally, that implies a prioritization problem: It sounds like Series 1 has dropped off their radar as an "important" product to make sure any new change (at their end) is compatible with.
I agree with this. It shouldn't take 2+ months to fix the issue
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:36 AM   #201
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TCP Retransmissions, slow ACKs

I'm been trying to setup serial IO for my brother for months (I've got it setup for myself) and I thought I had all the kinks worked out, but ran into this same issue where the test call worked but the daily call didn't. Then when we switched back to use the modem and we ran into daily call problems as well.

After a bunch of packet sniffing, it seems that the service is getting to the point of sending data in raw TCP chunks, but it's taking the series one tivo a long time to send the ACK that it received the individual chunks (don't know if this is normal behavior for the series one or not). The service will send the next segment while waiting for the previous ACK, then when it doesn't get the ACK quickly enough the service is retransmitting the first chunk. It does this send two chunck, times out for the first ACK, retransmit first chunk, get the original chunks ACK sequence then continues.

I ran into problems because I had set my pppd timeout to be 30 seconds and this process got to the point where it was taking longer than 30 seconds to catch up to the data chunks.

Unfortunately, at the same time that I tried lengthening the timeout (to 180 seconds) I had just previously been trying it with the the speed bumped down to 57600 (from 115200). With the longer timeout, I'm getting much more data (it's at Ack=38580 after 19 minutes where before it would timeout after Ack=10180 at around 5 minutes).

Also of note, these segments are small (only 1420 bytes) each and the time between ACKs slows from 6s,12s,24s,48s,96s,120s,120s,120s... It starts at 6 seconds, then doubles until it tops out at 120 seconds between ACKs - very odd.

I'll let this work for a while longer and send an update if the elongated timeout is a viable work-around for other serial IOers (though this is very painful to have to deal with all the retransmits that must be really slowing things down).

Last edited by brimimc : 01-18-2009 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:19 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by brimimc View Post
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Also of note, these segments are small (only 1420 bytes) each and the time between ACKs slows from 6s,12s,24s,48s,96s,120s,120s,120s... It starts at 6 seconds, then doubles until it tops out at 120 seconds between ACKs - very odd.
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I have done a lot of network packet sniffing, but very little (actually none) with Serial PPP stuff, so it maybe just my inexperience with the Serial kind, but it does seem like those ACKS are incredibly slow. Hard to imagine anything working with ACKS that slow.

But when I setup my mothers Tivo with an external modem some many years ago, I am pretty sure I set the BAUD rate down at 9600 (or maybe lower, can't remember). I don't remember if it didn't work at higher rates or I just got instructions to use the slower rate, but for sure it was 9600 or below.
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Old 01-18-2009, 03:04 PM   #203
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I have done a lot of network packet sniffing, but very little (actually none) with Serial PPP stuff, so it maybe just my inexperience with the Serial kind, but it does seem like those ACKS are incredibly slow. Hard to imagine anything working with ACKS that slow.

But when I setup my mothers Tivo with an external modem some many years ago, I am pretty sure I set the BAUD rate down at 9600 (or maybe lower, can't remember). I don't remember if it didn't work at higher rates or I just got instructions to use the slower rate, but for sure it was 9600 or below.
I'm just running wireshark against my ethernet interface (en0) filtering it on the tivo IP (chosen from my pppd command) and it shows up just like regular network traffic. It starts by sending some http requests, then ntp (setting the clock), followed by the data download.

I missed the first few data segments before. The first ACK comes in 0.085s, the next in 3s, then 6, etc. By the time it get to 120 it's at the equivalent of 12bps. Clearly something very wrong.

Unfortunately the 300s timeout on the ppp connection wasn't enough. At one point it fails when it take 177s to respond with a FIN, ACK. I'm not really sure what it's doing at that point, but it took almost 50 minutes to get to that point and the download operation (getting started to load dial in numbers) is only suppose to take 1-2 minutes.

Really unfortunately, I was trying to rerun guided setup to hook up a DTV box as a satellite connection so now I'm stuck with a useless tivo until I can complete the guided setup.
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:58 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by brimimc View Post
I'm just running wireshark against my ethernet interface (en0) filtering it on the tivo IP (chosen from my pppd command) and it shows up just like regular network traffic. It starts by sending some http requests, then ntp (setting the clock), followed by the data download.

I missed the first few data segments before. The first ACK comes in 0.085s, the next in 3s, then 6, etc. By the time it get to 120 it's at the equivalent of 12bps. Clearly something very wrong..
Whats wrong with 12bps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brimimc View Post
Unfortunately the 300s timeout on the ppp connection wasn't enough. At one point it fails when it take 177s to respond with a FIN, ACK. I'm not really sure what it's doing at that point, but it took almost 50 minutes to get to that point and the download operation (getting started to load dial in numbers) is only suppose to take 1-2 minutes.

Really unfortunately, I was trying to rerun guided setup to hook up a DTV box as a satellite connection so now I'm stuck with a useless tivo until I can complete the guided setup.
I hear you there. After my mom's Tivo stopped being able to connect to Tivo Inc, I came here and saw all the problems people were having I made sure I was in a 3-way call with my mom and Tivo support mainly to make sure they didn't try get her to do Guided setup or otherwise her downgraded Tivo to VCR would become a boat anchor. I was actually somewhat hopeful of Tivo support because they didn't have her go thru a whole host of scripted fixes like I always get with my Verizon DSL.

Hopefully TivoJerry has the engineering on its way fixing this problem.
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:20 PM   #205
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my 112 with Turbonet (over FIOS) seems to be connecting all the time but I really haven't paid that much attention to it.

My 312 is still on the internal modem (Verizon POTS line) and has been having this problem for months, actually long before most of you started seeing it on Dec 2 or thereabouts. I don't keep it connected all the time and run a phone line to it about once a week. Around December, the "Service Unavailable" problem started getting a lot worse (10% success rate) and I discovered that changing dial-in numbers seemed to help, along with always doing the forced call after midnight.

Today was especially disconcerting because I couldn't even get a test call to go thru for several hours. Seems like Tivo's backend systems are either massively overloaded or someone installed untested or poorly-tested code.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:37 PM   #206
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Arrow

I too am having the same problem. My tivo has not been able to complete a call since January 15, 2009.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:48 AM   #207
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Many S1 users have no phone line connected to the TiVo and instead use an internet connection


I agree with this. It shouldn't take 2+ months to fix the issue
My S1 is telephone based.

It hasn't received Guide data since January 3rd and has since run out of program data. Test dials work 40:60 with 40 being a connection. I can't get my S1 to connect to try another phone number. Right now I took the suggestion of turning off the "Phone In Use" option, it is currently "downloading" data at the moment but we'll see if it completes or not.
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:47 PM   #208
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I called Tivo today to report my Sony series 1 wasn't connecting, but it looks like it finally completed a call yesterday (the 20th). I was getting concerned because my lifetime was on the series one and my series 2 and series 3 are on MSD. In case you are unaware, if your lifetime unit does not connect at least once every 90 days, Tivo will drop your MSD rate.

EDIT: OK this is odd. Tivo says I completed a call yesterday, but my Tivo still says connection failed. So I still can't connect. Test call consistently fails even.

Last edited by spaceboytom : 01-21-2009 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:10 PM   #209
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My (phone-based) Philips S1 just started doing this yesterday (1/21); I'm getting a "TiVo service unavailable" error message. Restarting and changing dial-in numbers doesn't fix the problem. The last time I tried to switch to a different number, when it was dialing in for the list of numbers, it got stuck there. This is really frustrating.

Then, suddenly, today, my Humax S2 is unable to dial in, either. What's going on? It seems like it has to be something on TiVo's end if neither of my units is able to connect and download program info!
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:23 PM   #210
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My (phone-based) Philips S1 just started doing this yesterday (1/21); I'm getting a "TiVo service unavailable" error message. Restarting and changing dial-in numbers doesn't fix the problem. The last time I tried to switch to a different number, when it was dialing in for the list of numbers, it got stuck there. This is really frustrating.

Then, suddenly, today, my Humax S2 is unable to dial in, either. What's going on? It seems like it has to be something on TiVo's end if neither of my units is able to connect and download program info!
Silly question, but does your phone line work right now at all? What happens if you call the numbers listed on each of your units? Do you get through, is there a busy tone, does it just continue ringing, or does the line pick up with a handshake [modelm] tone?
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