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Old 01-12-2009, 06:05 PM   #1
wdwms
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Question regarding on how search is deployed - could it run faster?

I played around with the new search too; very good first cut at an app that many will find helpful and IMHO replace "swivel" which has 0 usage if you ask me.

Now my question stems from the implementation of these features, namely any HME app such as swivel, youtube, rapsody and now the search engine. It seems as though that these apps are downloaded from the Tivo server and then they execute on the Tivo box. Now my question comes from the fact that many of these apps are slow to respond to the remote; many times slower than any normal Tivo UI response from remote commands.

This would tell me that the apps are not part of the dedicated UI system thats loaded into Tivo's memory on boot, but instead executed upon request. While tihs is fine and dandy, the performance is slow and the smoothness of the integration between native menus and "apps" is not smooth and if anything delayed with the "Please wait" screen.

What can be done in the future to allow these apps to download and be stored on the Tivo HD and make them run faster and be more integrated into the UI? The version of the apps could be checked for new versions and downloaded when needed..

While i'm on the soapbox - better native UI integration and the ability to turn off features/HME apps I'm not interested in would be grand!

-t
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:42 PM   #2
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If the app was downloaded to your tivo and run there it would be fast. Unfortunately every remote button press causes it to talk across a socket over the internet. That's why it's slow. It's very dependent on your internet connection to the HME application server being snappy.
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:34 PM   #3
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If the app was downloaded to your tivo and run there it would be fast. Unfortunately every remote button press causes it to talk across a socket over the internet. That's why it's slow. It's very dependent on your internet connection to the HME application server being snappy.
No offense to the tivo programmers; but that is a lousy way to program any type of application, especially one that is dependent on an internet connection. No wonder the navigation and feel of the apps are so poor. Even with my network (20 down, 2 up) and great ping times the response is horrid. The app should be standalone on the Tivo, it should only download parts of what it needs when it needs it.

*ugh*

-t
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:40 AM   #4
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No offense to the tivo programmers; but that is a lousy way to program any type of application, especially one that is dependent on an internet connection. No wonder the navigation and feel of the apps are so poor. Even with my network (20 down, 2 up) and great ping times the response is horrid. The app should be standalone on the Tivo, it should only download parts of what it needs when it needs it.
Did you really want TiVo to download beta software to your box?

Running the TiVo Search beta on their servers allows TiVo to make the application available to everyone without the need to install beta software on the customer's box. It also allows TiVo to update and improve the application daily based on feedback. It allows TiVo to experiment with "under the hood" changes to improve performance. The final version of TiVo search may or may not run from customer's own box -- TiVo hasn't said.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:38 AM   #5
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Did you really want TiVo to download beta software to your box?

Running the TiVo Search beta on their servers allows TiVo to make the application available to everyone without the need to install beta software on the customer's box. It also allows TiVo to update and improve the application daily based on feedback. It allows TiVo to experiment with "under the hood" changes to improve performance. The final version of TiVo search may or may not run from customer's own box -- TiVo hasn't said.
I have no problem w/beta software being on my tivo. The word "beta" has gotten such a bad stigma over the years as if beta will take down your house.. there are risks w/everything..

I'm not questioning the beta version here though; i'm questioning the HME apps and how they are deploy; which are slow and less integrated w/the main system. When I use my tivo I often thing "oh man, thats in the HME apps section, its so freaking slow.. why bother".. if want good usage integrate the features into the main system.

t
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:24 PM   #6
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TiVo prefers to do apps via HME because they can tweak HME apps without fielding a new software release to the masses. A few of the menus that used to be embedded in the box are now served by HME.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:35 PM   #7
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HME apps also don't require TiVo to download the entire catalog for every video service to your TiVo on a daily basis. I pointed out in another thread that I think HME overall isn't too bad but certain features, like text input, need to be handled locally.
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Old 01-14-2009, 02:45 PM   #8
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I'd like if they could figure out some smart caching or something to speed things up. They reserve a lot of space on the drive- use it.

For example if I type "c" then grab the data for the first screen and then if there's some time before I do anything then download the rest of the everything that starts with C. I'm no programmer so no idea if that's doable. But to me- the sometimes fast sometimes dog-slowedness of it is a major put off.
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Old 02-01-2009, 04:43 PM   #9
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TiVo prefers to do apps via HME because they can tweak HME apps without fielding a new software release to the masses. A few of the menus that used to be embedded in the box are now served by HME.
That may be great in a management meeting at Tivo HQ, but in real life it just means all that work these developers are doing writing HME apps is being wasted because nobody wants to use these apps when they are so slow as to being unusable.
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Old 02-02-2009, 10:27 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by wdwms View Post
No offense to the tivo programmers; but that is a lousy way to program any type of application, especially one that is dependent on an internet connection.
-t
wow , all those dumb engineers at Google are going to need a meeting with you as well.


PS - Ping in itself does not measure true network performance
from http://www.developerfusion.com/artic...8/how-to-ping/
Quote:
The PING utility does not use TCP (Transmission Control Protocol) like most other network traffic. Neither does it use UDP (User Datagram Protocol). Rather it uses an often forgotten Internet protocol called ICMP (Internet Control Message Protocol). The intent of ICMP has always been in diagnosing IP-network issues. The entire protocol is a quick low-level access point into the IP-network.

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Old 02-05-2009, 09:42 AM   #11
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wow , all those dumb engineers at Google are going to need a meeting with you as well. ...
A round trip to a distant server per key or mouse click is bound to yield a sluggish feeling interface. That's one of the drivers for Ajax, heavily used in Gmail and other Google apps.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:45 AM   #12
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A round trip to a distant server per key or mouse click is bound to yield a sluggish feeling interface. That's one of the drivers for Ajax, heavily used in Gmail and other Google apps.
Thank you.. add in a sluggish GUI cpu on the Tivo; a few network drops, etc; and it all falls apart very quickly. The worst app that I have experience with is the YouTube - sometimes takes 3-5 seconds just to load the background image.
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