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Old 01-07-2009, 05:49 PM   #31
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I'm happy with the new search. definite improvement over the existing search.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:20 PM   #32
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I like it. I never used the old search too much, but this new search might get me to use it more. It would be great to see netflix content their too (with the ability to add it to my instant queue).

I did have an issue trying to setup a season pass for the new season of 24. It bounced me back out to the Music, Photos, & Showcases menu when I selected season pass.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:58 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by TiVoPony View Post
It may be possible that there was some confusion about the definition of 'midnight'.
The opposite of mid-day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony View Post
Our team was working to midnight pacific. And I'm happy to report that everything was up and ready per schedule.
'Forgot the workd was round, did you?
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:33 PM   #34
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this is going so slow for me
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:03 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by TolloNodre View Post
Well, the keyboard on my phone, laptop, Mac and work computer are all different. So I guess I learn to adapt.
All of those keyboards probably have largely the same format: QWERTY. Most other devices that have full keyboards (and even some that don't) use that same basic format.

Consistency is a basic precept of good user interface design. That's why it's puzzling that a company that is known for it's UI is all over the place with it's text entry UI.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:04 PM   #36
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All of those keyboards probably have largely the same format: QWERTY. Most other devices that have full keyboards (and even some that don't) use that same basic format.

Consistency is a basic precept of good user interface design. That's why it's puzzling that a company that is known for it's UI is all over the place with it's text entry UI.
PRECISELY.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:05 PM   #37
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I just tried this out. While I can't speak for the reliability of the search function (I only tried a few search terms), I LOVE the new interface and the functionality!
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:14 PM   #38
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I like the interface, but the sluggishness is terrible
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:37 PM   #39
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Very cool, just found out Joss Whedon appeared in a Veronica Mars episode.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:45 PM   #40
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I LOVE this new interface. The navigation was smooth, the information sensibly organized, and it looked great.

A few problems though:
1. The first 4-5 times I tried to use it, selecting "TiVo Search Beta" did nothing. It sat for a few minutes, then I went back to the main menu. After that, it worked fine again. I WAS doing a guide update call at the same time, though I don't know if that's related or not.

2. The interface was lagging occasionally in response time by about 2-3 seconds at first. I navigated around, and it worked OK, but sometimes lagged. However, I went out to the main menu and did some other stuff, then went back in to search, and it was all of a sudden much speedier - every keypress reacted with the same speed as in the normal TiVo interface.

3. When going to YouTube through a search result, YouTube was REALLY slow, with a lag of 10 seconds at least on keypresses. I have no idea if this is because I went there through TiVo Search or not, but YouTube has not been that slow for me before.

4. After coming back to TiVo Search from YouTube after interrupting the video halfway through, the video stayed on the screen as the background in TiVo Search - search still worked, but it had the YouTube video as a background instead of the regular background. Only way I could get rid of it was going to main menu and back.

A few minor distractions, overall I think this is a great interface! I LOVE the episode guides, and the way the UI lets you pick seasons, for example.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:00 PM   #41
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Well tonight I needed to do a search. My first reaction of course is to go search by title. Ibstead I went and used the new search. I then realized it was much slower than the current search and in the long run I will use the faster one more often. It would be great to speed this up.
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:28 PM   #42
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I love the interface, I absolutely hate the slowness. It is unbearably, unusably slow for me.

35 seconds from the menu to the search.
Type in "UNI" then wait 18 seconds before it will accept movement for "T"

Tried it again a few minutes later, same result.

TiVo is hardwired, and internet speed is 6mbps.

If this can be RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY as fast as the normal search, it's an absolute, total winner.

If the speed doesn't improve substantially, it's an abomination.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:05 AM   #43
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When I tried it in the early morning hours the interface seemed very responsive. This evening it was just absolutely unusable. I understand TiVo's reasoning for the remote application approach, but particularly for text input it's really kills the experience.

The problem is that even if you improve it, the nature of the net is going to inject random latencies that are going to make experience less than ideal. This is why technologies like Flash are popular for highly interactive web pages even though it's absolutely contrary to many other web best practices.

At a minimum TiVo needs to find a way to handle the text entry part locally. Waiting for the response to a cursor input when you're selecting characters is absolutely maddening.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:59 AM   #44
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I'd suggest getting a better network connection, because HME is not likely to change.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:39 AM   #45
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I'd suggest getting a better network connection, because HME is not likely to change.
I have 8Mbs which is well above average for the U.S. If Tivo can't provide satisfactory performance for most of it's users then this feature isn't going to have much impact other than to create frustration.
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:40 AM   #46
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I'd suggest getting a better network connection, because HME is not likely to change.
If Tivo takes this attitude, this is doomed to fail.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:22 AM   #47
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If Tivo takes this attitude, this is doomed to fail.
++

HME apps are too slow for primary interface tools.
Also I detest the keypad text entry... especially when hitting left arrow one too many laggy times bumps you back out of the tool/UI/app you are using.
(Severely annoying to me.)

TiVo needs to fix these (at least in future products) for their UI to remain viable and competitive.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:32 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by spacelysprockets View Post
I love the interface, I absolutely hate the slowness. It is unbearably, unusably slow for me.

35 seconds from the menu to the search.
Type in "UNI" then wait 18 seconds before it will accept movement for "T"

Tried it again a few minutes later, same result.

TiVo is hardwired, and internet speed is 6mbps.

If this can be RELIABLY and CONSISTENTLY as fast as the normal search, it's an absolute, total winner.

If the speed doesn't improve substantially, it's an abomination.
I feel the same. I also have a fast connection.


I tried it this morning and it whizzed around at 7am. In primetime it was unusable and frustrating.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:41 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by nrc View Post
I have 8Mbs which is well above average for the U.S.
Latency is the key here, not bandwidth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotVeryWitty View Post
If Tivo takes this attitude, this is doomed to fail.
I'm not TiVo, but I have some knowledge of HME, and I can tell you -- it's easy to say "At a minimum TiVo needs to find a way to handle the text entry part locally," but how would you fit that in to the existing scheme of HME? Well, the answer is that you wouldn't. HME just doesn't work that way. It would be too high-level a construct.

Of course TiVo could replace (or supplement) HME with some new system that did more work on the TiVo side. Don't hold your breath.
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:00 PM   #50
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Latency is the key here, not bandwidth.

I'm not TiVo, but I have some knowledge of HME, and I can tell you -- it's easy to say "At a minimum TiVo needs to find a way to handle the text entry part locally," but how would you fit that in to the existing scheme of HME? Well, the answer is that you wouldn't. HME just doesn't work that way. It would be too high-level a construct.

Of course TiVo could replace (or supplement) HME with some new system that did more work on the TiVo side. Don't hold your breath.
Understandable, but considering the direction TiVo is going with these new HME apps I think it would be a wise decision to develop a next-gen HME framework with these types of issues in mind.
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:25 PM   #51
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Understandable, but considering the direction TiVo is going with these new HME apps I think it would be a wise decision to develop a next-gen HME framework with these types of issues in mind.
Like client side text entry widgets and some other client side UI stuff so that the TiVo doesn't have to wait for a server response to update the UI for *every* click.
(I'm assuming that's how HME's work now.)
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:51 PM   #52
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Understandable, but considering the direction TiVo is going with these new HME apps I think it would be a wise decision to develop a next-gen HME framework with these types of issues in mind.
Bear in mind we do not have a road map of where this is all going. TiVoPony has that but has opted not to publicly post it for any competitors.

However some speculation on this is fairly straightforward.
This HME app is a BETA and by using HME TiVo can take in feedback and make changes that we would all see on our TiVo DVRs tomorrow with no need to push out an update. Use of HME allows them to do a large open BETA and not break boxes or have long turnarounds.
HME was not necessarily chosen in itself as the final form of this. I think for the Series 3 HME is the final form but the in design series 4 will very likely be more Java based as it will need to run OCAP in a sandbox for tru2way to begin with.
So what is learned from adding in the HME TiVo Search adn getting the open BETA feedback from a significant base of users can be pulled into the UI design for the series 4 almost directly. This search for media to watch right away is at the heart of how a next generation Media Server should base all its functions around. The series 4 should not be your daddy's DVR but something much more.

as for interaction with a back end server for data and graphics and to hook up to the media downloads, well a connected living room is just that. there really is no way to make a useful media search tool that resides mainly in the DVR without giving that DVR the power and the cost of a PC to sort and catagorize things.


I can recall patiently doing things on the internet with a 56K BAUD modem and literally watching the web page draw itself as it took 20 seconds to load a simple text and some graphics. People would see me doing that and go, Man how you can deal with that. I smiled and said someday we will have big ISDN pipes or cable company big pipe and this will all go a lot faster and more people will use it. IPTV is kind of at that analog modem stage where simple content is very useable and more detailed content is there for adapters who are willing top deal with the limitations.

So I suspect TiVo will do the balance act - after all no one HAS to use TiVo Search on the series 3, and be ready for the next big thing as the hardware and bandwidth allow for it to go mainstream and move from users who put up with BAUD modems to users who only want snappy web pages over a cable modem.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:14 PM   #53
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CEO Rogers was on CNBC this afternoon talking about the great new search.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:31 PM   #54
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This HME app is a BETA and by using HME TiVo can take in feedback and make changes that we would all see on our TiVo DVRs tomorrow with no need to push out an update. Use of HME allows them to do a large open BETA and not break boxes or have long turnarounds.

HME [running remotely from a TiVo server] was not necessarily chosen in itself as the final form of this.
Quoted for emphasis.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:01 PM   #55
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I can recall patiently doing things on the internet with a 56K BAUD modem and literally watching the web page draw itself as it took 20 seconds to load a simple text and some graphics.
Noob. In my day, we had *300* bps modems, no graphics, and no Internet -- just local BBSes and $ervice$ like Compu$erve. The text came in at reading speed. And we liked it!
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:58 PM   #56
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Noob. In my day, we had *300* bps modems, no graphics, and no Internet -- just local BBSes and $ervice$ like Compu$erve. The text came in at reading speed. And we liked it!
well I left off the really hoary stuff Though for me I waited for per month Internet versus by the hour so I joined in at 1200 baud Prodigy - but I did not want to scare the young folk with scary stories.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:40 PM   #57
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10 Minutes to launch :(

I tried it last night here in Honolulu, and it was so painfull, even after waiting 10 minutes for the main screen, and then every key was at least another minute. My Internet is DSL 11Mb not shabby as dsl goes.

Even trying to get back to any other screen was more than 2 minutes.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:13 PM   #58
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I tried it tonight, and again it took 4-5 tried to get the app launched.

However, once it launched there was ZERO lag - everything ran as if it was the regular TiVo interface. And I only have 256k op /1.5M down Internet.

It did however lock up on me. I searched for "CH" for American Chopper, went to the program info screen and selected "Record Next Episode", and then I got the "Please Wait" indicator, for like 2 minutes. I clicked on the TiVo button and left the search app, and checked my To Do list. The show was scheduled to be recorded as I had requested.

Also, "Record Next Episode" seemed like a weird wording. There were 2 shows listed, one 1/10 and one 1/17. The one I selected to record was the 1/17 one. To call that "Record Next Episode" seems odd. Shouldn't it be "Record this episode" at that time? I could se using "Record Next Episode" as the label if you're on the main program description screen, but when selecting an individual episode, it should say "this" instead... IMO.

I LOVE that the search is not alphabetical by default, but instead goes by "best match/most popular" or whatever it's called. Makes much more sense.

It was a little weird though for search settings to be accessed by pressing the "Clear" button.

Last edited by MickeS : 01-08-2009 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:52 PM   #59
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this search is terrible
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:07 PM   #60
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this search is terrible
Could you be more specific? Give TiVo something to go on so they can improve it.
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