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Old 01-07-2009, 01:59 AM   #1
Peter Redmer
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Welcome To The Search Feedback Beta Forum

Welcome to the new TiVo Search feedback beta forum! We're looking forward to hearing from you about your experiences!
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:31 AM   #2
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First off...excellent work and much appreciated!

Okay, I know it's been on the wish list a long time...but this new and terrific feature absolutely begs for it: a keyboard! The current "up/down/select/back/sideways/oops I jumped back a screen" method is just too cumbersome and antiquated.

A keyboard like this Logitech diNovo Mini (or that exact one as I already have it ) would be awesome. Think how great little TiVo would look on the cover. Although they claim it only works with Windows and Playstation, it is doing just fine with my Mac HT setup and I'm sure your folks could integrate it in a heartbeat...right? Let's give TiVo's USB port something to do!

Please give this idea some additional consideration.

BTW, I have no affiliation with Logitech...I'd be happy with most any keyboard really.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:59 AM   #3
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Suggestion for some improvement... wishlist...

I just tried it and found it to be very useful but I couldn't create wishlist directly from in Episode guide and if I missed some episodes (let say Smallville season 8, Episode 4 "Instinct") and look this up in Episode guide and create wishlist only for this specific episode such as "Instinct" nothing else only if there is no upcoming showings in listing and it would be nice if TiVo take my suggest and add ability to this.
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Old 01-07-2009, 04:06 AM   #4
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The opt-in privacy setting requirement is a higher price than I, for one, am willing to pay. Just let us keep our privacy and give us the search results unfiltered.

Last edited by RoyK : 01-07-2009 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:31 AM   #5
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The opt-in privacy setting requirement is a higher price than I, for one, am willing to pay. Just let us keep our privacy and give us the search results unfiltered.
I'm going to second this.
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:45 AM   #6
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I'm going to second this.
It's not possible to use this program without opting in, because the program is run from TiVo's servers and it requires access to your channel list and season passes to see what channels you actually receive and what recordings are already scheduled. TiVo can't pass that information to their servers unless you opt in.

If you haven't already used the application, then it may not be obvious, but this information is vital to its operation.
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:48 AM   #7
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How about an option that will let me select only the databases I want to search? This way, when I only want to search the local database of TV guide listings, I don't have to wait for, and view all of the junk that is returned after TiVo checks in with the servers.
  • Main TV Guide Data (already on the box)
  • You Tube
  • Amazon
  • Insert superfluous service here because I can't think of any others

A simple SELECT on each service (some examples listed above) will enable or disable that particular search service.
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
It's not possible to use this program without opting in, because the program is run from TiVo's servers and it requires access to your channel list and season passes to see what channels you actually receive and what recordings are already scheduled. TiVo can't pass that information to their servers unless you opt in.

If you haven't already used the application, then it may not be obvious, but this information is vital to the operation of HDUI search.
Then I guess it will never be used here. Besides, I don't believe that. It only needs that information to filter the search results.

Last edited by RoyK : 01-07-2009 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:01 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
It's not possible to use this program without opting in, because the program is run from TiVo's servers and it requires access to your channel list and season passes to see what channels you actually receive and what recordings are already scheduled. TiVo can't pass that information to their servers unless you opt in.

If you haven't already used the application, then it may not be obvious, but this information is vital to the operation of HDUI search.
Okay. But... I thought the goal was to replace the current search function when the new "TiVo Search" is out of beta. Did I misunderstand the goal of the new app?

If this becomes the default search, what happens if I opt out? Do I get the standard search or the new search minus internet results?

I get the feeling that it's inevitable that in the near future, you will not be able to "opt out" if you want to use a TiVo. Agreeing to share information ("opting in") will be part of the license agreement required to subscribe to the service.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:48 AM   #10
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Okay. But... I thought the goal was to replace the current search function when the new "TiVo Search" is out of beta. Did I misunderstand the goal of the new app?
There's more to TiVo Search than search. You've got to use it to see. Or look at lots of screenshots. I'm sure there will be plenty of those in the next few days.

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Originally Posted by DCIFRTHS View Post
If this becomes the default search, what happens if I opt out? Do I get the standard search or the new search minus internet results?

I get the feeling that it's inevitable that in the near future, you will not be able to "opt out" if you want to use a TiVo. Agreeing to share information ("opting in") will be part of the license agreement required to subscribe to the service.
I don't know about all that.

What is clear is that running the application remotely allows TiVo to do things that wouldn't be possible otherwise. It allows TiVo to make the application available to everyone without the need for a software download, assuming 11.x could even support it. It allows TiVo to update and improve the application daily based on feedback from this forum. It allows TiVo to experiment with "under the hood" changes to improve performance.

All or some part of this application could eventually be run from your box. I haven't the faintest idea whether that is the cards. All I know right now is that running the application completely from their servers is the most efficient way to give everyone access at this stage in development. That much is obvious. Ultimately, whether you opt in will depend on whether you want a say in the future of TiVo search and potentially the future of the entire TiVo interface. I want a say, so I opted in.

TiVo will now have access to my viewing and commercial skipping habits, but I've never really understood the objection to it, since all data is reported anonymously and only in the aggregate (i.e. results for tens of thousands of users at once).
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Old 01-07-2009, 07:04 AM   #11
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...
TiVo will now have access to my viewing and commercial skipping habits, but I've never really understood the objection to it, since all data is reported anonymously and only in the aggregate (i.e. results for tens of thousands of users at once).
I suggest you (re)read the privacy policy if you believe that. By opting in you are expressly giving up your anonymity.

"The collection of Personally Identifiable Viewing Information is necessary for the use of certain advanced TiVo features. You will be asked to change your privacy preferences to allow TiVo to collect your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information before you can use these advanced features. If you expressly choose to allow TiVo to collect your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information, TiVo may use this information to provide the requested services as well as for surveys, audience measurement, and other legitimate business purposes."

Now, care to make a list what a company's lawyers might want to lump under "other legitimate purposes" when they have your name, address, phone number, credit card number, probably your email address, and personally identifiable viewing info if you relinquish your privacy?
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Old 01-07-2009, 07:37 AM   #12
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RoyK, you are the modern day Chicken Little.

quote from TiVopony

Quote:
We don't use your personal information for any nefarious purposes, but TiVo Search does make use of that data up on our servers in providing you this feature.

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Old 01-07-2009, 07:43 AM   #13
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"The collection of Personally Identifiable Viewing Information is necessary for the use of certain advanced TiVo features.
as User of TiVo - I think that statement is very true and a more integrated search function is indeed something I find useful.

As a Systems Engineer for a large company I can also understand why trying to layer in a search that did not have your scheduling info just adds a lot of scope for little gain.

TiVo already has my name and billing info in one place. Adding in my viewing habits and commercials I watch, I really do not see what danger would lurk for me in that data aside from the usual ID theft which can happen anytime you use a credit card. I would rather advertisers be aware I have absolutely no desire for HeadOn product but a coupon for Tylenol would be most welcome and induce me to buy.;
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Old 01-07-2009, 07:47 AM   #14
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RoyK, you are the modern day Chicken Little.

quote from TiVopony
Maybe so. Go ahead and opt in if you wish - but at least do it with your eyes open.

As to Pony's statement - the privacy agreement trumps a statement from a marketing guy every time.

Last edited by RoyK : 01-07-2009 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:23 AM   #15
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... I would rather advertisers be aware I have absolutely no desire for HeadOn product but a coupon for Tylenol would be most welcome and induce me to buy.;
Well I'm sure you'll see them when this new search becomes the S3s implementation of the S2's blasted "More About" in the next few days.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyK View Post
Now, care to make a list what a company's lawyers might want to lump under "other legitimate purposes" when they have your name, address, phone number, credit card number, probably your email address, and personally identifiable viewing info if you relinquish your privacy?
I'm curious what you think they think they can get away with in having your credit card numbers ? Aren't there, you know, laws preventing them from doing things you haven't authorized them to do with those? How would the additional information you would provide to them by an opt-in change what they can do with your credit card?

Also, you left a sentence out of the privacy policy paragraph you quoted that is relevent to the discussion, I think. Here's a link to the complete policy and the whole paragraph, for those interested:
http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/polici...acypolicy.html
Quote:
The collection of Personally Identifiable Viewing Information is necessary for the use of certain advanced TiVo features. You will be asked to change your privacy preferences to allow TiVo to collect your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information before you can use these advanced features. If you expressly choose to allow TiVo to collect your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information, TiVo may use this information to provide the requested services as well as for surveys, audience measurement, and other legitimate business purposes. However, TiVo will not sell or otherwise disclose your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information to Third Parties (as defined in Section 3.1) without your express consent.

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Old 01-07-2009, 08:47 AM   #17
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... Here's a link to the complete policy and the whole paragraph, for those interested:
http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/polici...acypolicy.html
They do not have to sell the personal information itself to a third party to sell a service making use of that information to a third party. .
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:59 AM   #18
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They do not have to sell the personal information itself to a third party to sell a service making use of that information to a third party. .
Example, please? I am honestly trying to see it from another point of view, but so far I can't see how what Pony said and what the privacy policy says reconciles with the reasoning your posts on this topic suggests. I know the privacy policy very well (as I'm sure you do too). If they can develop a service using my PII that does not then disclose it to a third party without my express consent, and I've opted-in knowing this, why should it matter to me? What kind of service could they develop that would be 'nefarious' to the TiVo user?
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:03 AM   #19
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While I am by no means saying they would do this but, for example, a company could pay TiVo to mail a solicitation to everyone in the 703 area code who watches public television regularly and thus has a high probability of being a contributer and a tendency to respond to appeals for money. That is they could sell their mailing list without actually divulging it by becoming the mailer themselves.

This is just something off the top of my head, admittedly, that could be done without violating the privacy policy of those who opt in.

Should this matter to you? That's up to you. It does matter to me.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:05 AM   #20
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While I am by no means saying they would do this but, for example, a company could pay TiVo to mail a solicitation to everyone in the 703 area code who watches public television regularly and thus has a high probability of being a contributer and a tendency to respond to appeals for money. That is they could sell their mailing list without actually divulging it by becoming the mailer themselves.

This is just something off the top of my head, admittedly, that could be done without violating the privacy policy of those who opt in.

Should this matter to you? That's up to you. It does matter to me.
Thanks for explaining.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:10 AM   #21
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So how do you get signed up to get this beta search?
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:31 AM   #22
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So how do you get signed up to get this beta search?
If you have a S3, HD or HDXL, it should be in your Music, Photos, and Showcases area.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:37 AM   #23
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While I am by no means saying they would do this but, for example, a company could pay TiVo to mail a solicitation to everyone in the 703 area code who watches public television regularly and thus has a high probability of being a contributer and a tendency to respond to appeals for money. That is they could sell their mailing list without actually divulging it by becoming the mailer themselves.
They can do that right now if they wanted to. Even if you're anonymous, they could send mailers just as you referred to in your example. They know how many people are recording and watching stuff off PBS. While they wouldn't know EXACTLY who, a marketer could look to TIVO and say "What area has usage of over 35% for PBS" and target that whole area by zip code.

While not as precise as nuts and bolts information, it's still possible without anyone's consent from the information they already gather.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:24 PM   #24
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a company could pay TiVo to mail a solicitation to everyone in the 703 area code who watches public television regularly and thus has a high probability of being a contributer and a tendency to respond to appeals for money.
Ok, and they could also mail out Tylenol coupons to all those who watched the tylenol ad instead of skipping of FFing it. (or vice-versa) I am still not seeing what is so bad about this targeted marketing to want to opt out of a good search function.

I imagine you would say because you do not want ads in the mail, and that is fine for you. Believe it or not though many of us do not find advertising a bad thing at all, we just do not want to watch 3 minutes of it in the middle of a good show. I for one would welcome a mailbox full of coupons for items they knew I had interest in.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:49 PM   #25
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The new TiVo Search does not find anything for Freida Pinto. However, a Wishlist search on Freida Pinto shows an upcoming Ellen DeGeneres show.
It seems the new search may not be reliable yet.

Jim H.
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Old 01-07-2009, 04:28 PM   #26
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I for one would welcome a mailbox full of coupons for items they knew I had interest in.
Fine Zeo. You sign away your privacy and get your Tylenol coupons. I'll not do it and avoid the possible need for them.
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:21 PM   #27
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Gotta say I agree 100% with RoyK on the privacy issue. Once the decision is made to opt-in, is it ever possible to opt-out again? Everybody decides what price of admission is acceptable for such things, and for me it's too high as well. For now, anyway.

One thing that I would like to see is a way to "test drive" the features in some meaningful way prior to changing my privacy status.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:09 PM   #28
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I cant wait to go home and play with this feature! Im so glad i came back to tivo!! Ive missed it soooo much!
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Old 01-07-2009, 07:04 PM   #29
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Gotta say I agree 100% with RoyK on the privacy issue. Once the decision is made to opt-in, is it ever possible to opt-out again? Everybody decides what price of admission is acceptable for such things, and for me it's too high as well. For now, anyway.
I vaguely really the ability to opt-out with a call to TiVo, but I can't say for certain that is possible.
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:41 AM   #30
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Finally A Keyboard...Sort of

Per my earlier request for a TiVo Keyboard...here it is, well, sort of...

iPhone TiVo UI app w/QWERTY keyboard.

Video Demo. Sweet.

It's a start.

Last edited by richsadams : 01-31-2009 at 06:28 PM. Reason: Updated demo link
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