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Old 12-14-2008, 07:30 PM   #1
tubular031
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Tivo 1 wont make its daily call anymore

My tivo 1 has a turbo net card in it and has been calling over the net for years now. I can telnet to it and run tivo web on it. When I tell it to make a call it fails and says service not available.

I have rebooted it a couple times and still no go.

this is an OLD skool hdr212 with life time service on it that I bought when tivo first hit the world. i put an 80 gig drive in it with the turbo net maybe 5 or 6 years ago now?

I know the NIC is working and its talking to the net since telnet works and I can ping the internet and hosts inside my firewall. Tivo web is also working.
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:15 AM   #2
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You're not alone. More and more Series 1 users with TivoNet/TurboNet/CacheCard are reporting this failure. I've PM'ed TivoPony asking him to review the Series 1 failure messages here. I hope it's something they know about at Tivo and are working to fix.
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:48 AM   #3
tubular031
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Yea mee too. my tivo ran out of data lastnight.

This is tivos way of saying screw you all, give us some money and get a new tivo!
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:58 AM   #4
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No, it's not. Believe me.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:16 PM   #5
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No, it's not. Believe me.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but curious as to what you know that enables you to say that.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:53 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by KeithB View Post
You're not alone. More and more Series 1 users with TivoNet/TurboNet/CacheCard are reporting this failure. I've PM'ed TivoPony asking him to review the Series 1 failure messages here. I hope it's something they know about at Tivo and are working to fix.

TivoNet/TurboNet/CacheCard and broadband "phone calls" were never offcially supported by tivo. I wouldn't expect tivo would devote resources solving problems with unsupported hardware/"hacks", particularly for a discontinued model. If the fix is something simple they might do something otherwise go back to a dialup/modem phone call or replace your unit.

Tivo seems to be trying to fix suggestions so they are at least trying to make sure S1 provide promised features.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:02 PM   #7
tubular031
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otherwise go back to a dialup/modem phone call or replace your unit.
what if your modem does not work or you don't have a phone line? (both true in my case)

If tivo did something like this and does not fix it, i will lose major respect for them. I have pimped tivos for a long time and if they will not stand behind the S1 and fix it for us lifetimers, ill gladly toss my tivo and get a dvr from dish. And my attitude toward tivo will change from support them to let them choke on it..... Please tivo, don't further dig that hole!!! many people are jumping ship on tivos because DVRs are available from all providers now.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:18 PM   #8
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It's not clear what tivo "did". It's clear that tivo never promised broadband support for S1 units. I would lose all respect for a business that devotes significant resources to "fixing" a problem related to a "hacked" feature for a discontinued unit.

I'd hope if there is an easy fix tivo will fix it.

Go through your manual. Tivo was clear your unit needed a phone line. If your unit is broken (modem) you have to decide if it makes sense to fix it. Lifetime service refers to the lifetime of the box. You were able to "extend" the lifetime of your broken box by using an unsupported/undocumented feature.




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Originally Posted by tubular031 View Post
what if your modem does not work or you don't have a phone line? (both true in my case)

If tivo did something like this and does not fix it, i will lose major respect for them. I have pimped tivos for a long time and if they will not stand behind the S1 and fix it for us lifetimers, ill gladly toss my tivo and get a dvr from dish. And my attitude toward tivo will change from support them to let them choke on it..... Please tivo, don't further dig that hole!!! many people are jumping ship on tivos because DVRs are available from all providers now.

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Old 12-16-2008, 01:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dlee0708 View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you, but curious as to what you know that enables you to say that.
Because I jokingly suggested this to a Tivo Support agent during a telephone conversation last week, and they seemed genuinely hurt. They care.

I'll also strongly agree and restate something Lew already mentioned:
Series 1 w/networking has never been officially supported by Tivo, Inc. From the very beginning, TivoNet and TurboNet have always been "unofficially" supported, only in the sense they could be used successfully. But Tivo have never officially provided approval or support for it. Period.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:29 PM   #10
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Just would like to point out that whatever broke the S1's ability to download is affecting both modem users and broadband/TurboNet users. So I'm not sure there's a need to argue that broadband connections are unsupported. Surely, the people that still have phone lines and working modems deserve to still get their downloads.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:37 PM   #11
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Someone over at tivo flipped some switch and poof, death to all s1 via the network. They already have to crunch the data for the phone calls (for the RAS network) from s1 devices. Why stop the flow of data to the incomming tcp/ip connections? I would be willing to bet this is Tivos way of making the s1 boxes all but go away. You show me a handful of oldskool $10 modems that last for 8 years with daily usage. There are not many out there. Tivo knows what they are doing. Ill bet me and many others are going to get pissed and jump ship if they dont fix it soon.

The data is there already and all they need to do it turn the delivery back on.

I would like to see some stats of how many s1 s2 and s3 boxes are out there and how they phone home. I would bet you that there are lots of s1 boxes using tcp/ip and tivos plan is to get those users to buy a new one. Till TIVO tells me different that is my story and I am sticking to it.
</rant>
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:39 PM   #12
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Just would like to point out that whatever broke the S1's ability to download is affecting both modem users and broadband/TurboNet users. So I'm not sure there's a need to argue that broadband connections are unsupported. Surely, the people that still have phone lines and working modems deserve to still get their downloads.
WORD!! again, tivos way of forcing you to upgrade. just like M$ does when they EOL an OS. At least M$ will let you still run their OS just not support it and release patches for it. my tivo is about useless without the guide.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:21 PM   #13
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let me ask a sincere question.

how much do you really think tivo is going to care if someone stops using a lifetimed S1 and switches to another dvr? tivo has already lost money on the deal, and the box is just using up their resources. I find it comical how much people feel they are entitled to these days.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:39 PM   #14
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how much do you really think tivo is going to care if someone stops using a lifetimed S1 and switches to another dvr?
Are there no monthly or yearly subbed S1's out there? Is this targeted at Lifetime S1's?
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:46 PM   #15
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Are there no monthly or yearly subbed S1's out there? Is this targeted at Lifetime S1's?
I wasn't implying that anyone was "targeted". I was simply stating how ridiculous (and comical to me) it was whenever someone with a lifetimed S1 starts making "threats" about getting another dvr.
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:00 PM   #16
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As if you can't tell by now, my feelings on this are:
1) Something's broken and not working
2) The problem isn't with networking hardware in my TiVo.
3) I honestly don't believe it's anything intentional on Tivo's part.
4) I think it's something:
...a) on their servers
...b) in the network software within Tivo 3.0

That being said, I paid for a lifetime subscription with my Series 1 box, and my Series 1 box is still alive: same Tivo service ID, same motherboard, even the same power supply. So I expect my lifetime subscription service to still work.
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:52 PM   #17
tubular031
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Originally Posted by Da Goon View Post
let me ask a sincere question.

how much do you really think tivo is going to care if someone stops using a lifetimed S1 and switches to another dvr? tivo has already lost money on the deal, and the box is just using up their resources. I find it comical how much people feel they are entitled to these days.
well in my tivo family i have 4 s2 and 2 s1. only 2 of them are lifetime. the others i pay for monthly. so if I walk and take my 4 x13 a month they are losing. Plus if this is for real I will not buy another product from them nor will I tell people to buy them. maybe others are different but there are many out there like me.

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As if you can't tell by now, my feelings on this are:
1) Something's broken and not working
2) The problem isn't with networking hardware in my TiVo.
3) I honestly don't believe it's anything intentional on Tivo's part.
4) I think it's something:
...a) on their servers
...b) in the network software within Tivo 3.0

That being said, I paid for a lifetime subscription with my Series 1 box, and my Series 1 box is still alive: same Tivo service ID, same motherboard, even the same power supply. So I expect my lifetime subscription service to still work.

WORD!!!! I paid for the life of the box and since the box is not dead, they should hold up to their end and give me the life time of the box! O wait that is easy, turn the updates on and then release a os patch to take the system out in xx amount of days... there no more tivo 1s and they can use the argument, its the life of the box and your box is dead...
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:07 PM   #18
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Serial connection using PPP

Would you guys assume that whatever TIVO did is why my SA-TIVO (with lifetime subscription) is no longer getting Guide data over a serial connection through my computer?

I see it transferring packets and receiving them when I hit "daily call"-- but it eventually says Service Unavailable after about 5 minutes or so.

Using the serial connection has worked flawlessly for years, now it doesn't (with no changes to the computer or TIVO dialing instructions).

Thanks for the help.
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:59 PM   #19
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This is affecting both TurboNet and Dial-Up/Modem S1 users. So the argument really has nothing to do with unsupported network features.

TiVo or someone they partner with to provide infrastructure services made a change that is now affecting a large amount of S1 users.

It's clear the change took effect sometime on 12/2 at the earliest. Someone over there knows what happened. They need to rollback whatever change they made.
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Old 12-17-2008, 02:14 PM   #20
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Exclamation Anyone get a successful download yet???

It's another day later, and although I understand we're not supposed to bump threads here, this is more than just a bump.

I'd really like to hear something from someone who understands why this service data download failure is occurring. If they're from TiVo, Inc, that would be fantastic. If they're not, I'd still appreciate understanding why my Series 1 no longer downloads service data. It certainly appears to be an issue on TiVo's end of the communication that is failing, but not having any visibility to their server-side scripts/programs, I can't even begin to guess what the issue might really be.

I'm on record here as having used the Wireshark program to observe the exchange between my TiVo and the TiVo servers. It looks like it's failing after my TiVo submits the ZIP archive of service log files to their servers. This is where the communication drops. Eventually, my TiVo times out waiting for a response from the TiVo, Inc. servers, and displays the now-infamous Service Unavailable error message.

I'll further go on record as being entirely willing to work with any Linux or UNIX geeks (term used with all due respect!) at TiVo, Inc. to help document and hopefully resolve this download issue. Seriously.
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:16 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by KeithB View Post
.
.
.
I'm on record here as having used the Wireshark program to observe the exchange between my TiVo and the TiVo servers. It looks like it's failing after my TiVo submits the ZIP archive of service log files to their servers. This is where the communication drops. Eventually, my TiVo times out waiting for a response from the TiVo, Inc. servers, and displays the now-infamous Service Unavailable error message.

I'll further go on record as being entirely willing to work with any Linux or UNIX geeks (term used with all due respect!) at TiVo, Inc. to help document and hopefully resolve this download issue. Seriously.
I am no expert but found a user who says it sounds like the same problem he had with Comcast and he modified a file to cause the Tivo to send a dummy Content-Length header (tried to post the url but this forum seems to want to hide it I guess).

Then I found this link http://www.arielbusiness.pwp.blueyon...TiVo/HowTo.htm
(search for Getting Guide Data Updates to Work) and it shows how to make the modification in more detail.

Not sure it will work, but its worth a try. As soon as I get to my Mom's Tivo I will try it, but that is gonna be a while.
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:30 PM   #22
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I am no expert but found a user who says it sounds like the same problem he had with Comcast and he modified a file to cause the Tivo to send a dummy Content-Length header (tried to post the url but this forum seems to want to hide it I guess).

Then I found this link http://www.arielbusiness.pwp.blueyon...TiVo/HowTo.htm
(search for Getting Guide Data Updates to Work) and it shows how to make the modification in more detail.

Not sure it will work, but its worth a try. As soon as I get to my Mom's Tivo I will try it, but that is gonna be a while.
I should have read farther, apparently this no longer works in 3.0 software, but there is a guy who is going to see if he can create a binary patch. Do a google search for daily call failed service not available. Its at the deal database forum.
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Old 12-17-2008, 10:44 PM   #23
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Due to where I have my series 1 located at this time, I only run the phone line to it about once a week & today was the day. The call failed in several different ways during the day but it finally suceeded at 8:08pm tonight.
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Old 12-18-2008, 04:49 AM   #24
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...but there is a guy who is going to see if he can create a binary patch. Do a google search for daily call failed service not available. Its at the deal database forum.
Yeah, I happen to know him.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:31 AM   #25
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Due to where I have my series 1 located at this time, I only run the phone line to it about once a week & today was the day. The call failed in several different ways during the day but it finally suceeded at 8:08pm tonight.
really? wonder if tivo is working on the fix finally
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:39 AM   #26
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I tested it again a few minutes ago with the same failure. I would say that it is not yet corrected. I tried both a test call and the force daily download.
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Old 12-18-2008, 03:17 PM   #27
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I took my Series 1 out of the bedroom last night, because it's completely useless right now. I'm moving it into my office tonight with a small LCD TV to document the network conversation, and attempt hex-editing the tivoapp program embedded texts from HTTP 1.0 to 1.1.

I certainly hope we hear something soon. The silence is deafening.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:39 PM   #28
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The silence is deafening.
You're not kidding. There has simply been no explanation nor even an acknowledgment from TiVo that there is a problem despite the overwhelming numbers illustrating the obvious.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:26 PM   #29
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Yeah, I happen to know him.
I was wondering if that was the case, I thought 3 things would be too much of a coincendence (username, Avatar and Tivo user). Good luck on that finding that code to hex edit, we are all pulling for you and would probably be promoted to ruler of the world if you fixed it.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:34 PM   #30
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Good luck on that finding that code to hex edit, we are all pulling for you and would probably be promoted to ruler of the world if you fixed it.
You're too kind. I had to work late this evening, so TiVo hacking isn't on my schedule tonight. I believe another user at ddb is already working on it this Thursday evening, though.
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