TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-23-2008, 10:43 AM   #421
sfhub
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts View Post
Again, it's possible that this is primarily a cable provider caused problem, with failure to properly register new cards in their system when they receive them.
Much more likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts View Post
It could still also be a persistent hardware quality problem, or some admixture of both (probably).
My position is once CableCARDs went high-volume with the integration ban, *if* there were persistent hardware failures they would have been resolved ASAP.

If you feel otherwise, then we will just agree to disagree.
sfhub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 12:47 PM   #422
mikeyts
Wireless Wiseguy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 2,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post
Much more likely.


My position is once CableCARDs went high-volume with the integration ban, *if* there were persistent hardware failures they would have been resolved ASAP.

If you feel otherwise, then we will just agree to disagree.
Yeah, we will have to agree to disagree. The fact that I myself experienced a problem with an S-Card that was obviously a hardware fault (it worked, but intermittently) just a couple of months back, 7 months into CableCARDs "going high-volume" and that I continue to hear of other people having problematic installations would suggest to me that there's at least some element of poor hardware.

I have 30 years experience as an engineer in product R&D and I've seen similar problems go on and on and on. (One very public case in point is the Xbox 360 "3 Red Rings of Death", which, 2.5 years into volume manufacturing of the product, is somewhat improved, but still not completely solved). Sometimes a hardware problem is so intrinsic to a design that it can't be easily fixed without changing the form-factor or redesigning to use parts that would greatly increase the cost of manufacture, or using some technology that's coming, but won't be available for several months. If the supplier can be replaced, the company manufacturing the thing loses the business. If you can't replace the supplier and you've gotta have what they're selling, you just have to live with it. If there is a persistent buggy hardware problem I've no doubt that it's costing the manufacturers much more than it's costing the cable service industry, since I'm sure that they'd be replacing faulty units at their own cost.

Remember, cable doesn't want to have to buy these things at all and never did. I'm sure that the OEMs are pouring their best people into the effort to complete DCAS so that they and their buyers can eventually wash their hands of them.
__________________
Mike Scott

"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
" -- hookbill
mikeyts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 01:35 PM   #423
sfhub
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts View Post
Yeah, we will have to agree to disagree. The fact that I myself experienced a problem with an S-Card that was obviously a hardware fault (it worked, but intermittently)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts View Post
When I moved from a Cox neighborhood to a TWC one in mid-February, I got new CableCARDs installed in my S3, which took three trips because one of them would work right after they initialized it, but would stop working by the next day (on the second visit they merely initialized it again); on the third trip out they replaced both S-Cards with M-Cards.
How is that "obviously" hardware fault? Without doing the full diagnosis and going just on symptoms, how can you rule out that the card initialization, by design, times out after a certain period and it didn't process the new EMM messages properly. The M-Card might just have new firmware that changed the logic or timing for EMM processing. Clearly your S-Card hardware was capable for decrypting because it did fine after re-initialization.

If you want to point out hardware failure it would be a much stronger case to use 2 of the same S-Cards and verify the firmware revision levels are the same. Basically isolate all variables so they are the same except for the physical card.

Out of curiosity do you consider firmware problems a hardware or software failure? When I talk about hardware failure, no amount of firmware updates will resolve the problem because the hardware is busted. When a chip burns out or a head crashes on a hard drive those are hardware failures to me.

Are you really comparing the complexity of what is essentially a PCMCIA card that decrypts incoming streams and encrypts outgoing streams to an XBOX360 system?

Nobody is arguing that a CableCARD can't be broken, hardware-wise. The hardware failures should be similar to other PCMCIA devices of similar complexity, which historically is very low. The expected hardware failure rate should fall somewhere between a PCMCIA LAN card and a PCMCIA WLAN card.

What we disagree with is whether the scenarios we see posted here where the installer needs to bring 6 cards to get 2 working is likely a hardware failure. 66% hardware failure *after* it has gone through Motorola or SA quality control, reached the cable company, and gone through their acceptance procedure, is just too incredulous to believe. Your example of changing out a dozen cards on an STB prior to putting it on the truck is an even worse percentage.

On the other hand, I can believe overall install failures, in the case of CableCARDs, can be much higher than install failures attributed to hardware failures because the overall installation involves so many other moving parts.

Last edited by sfhub : 05-23-2008 at 01:50 PM.
sfhub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 02:01 PM   #424
bicker
Gruff
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 9,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts View Post
Yeah, we will have to agree to disagree. The fact that I myself experienced a problem with an S-Card that was obviously a hardware fault (it worked, but intermittently) just a couple of months back, 7 months into CableCARDs "going high-volume" and that I continue to hear of other people having problematic installations would suggest to me that there's at least some element of poor hardware.
Yes, absolutely. No amount of product maturity can overcome fundamental lack of robustness in the underlying architecture, something that exists to some extent in every design.
bicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 12:08 AM   #425
MichaelK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,299
my 2 cents-

the thing is solid state- how many solid state peicesof hardware just up and die? It'sgenerally no where near where we all seem to thing the card failure rate is.

How many pc cards, usb drives, usb wireless dongles, etc etc are out there and just work?

Could certainly be bad firmware- but i really cant imagine that the hardware dies soo much. If it was only hardware then there would be as many failures in cable company boxes as in tivos (or at least delayed failures - as the inital ones maybe would get caught by whoever first pairs them)
MichaelK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 04:49 AM   #426
bicker
Gruff
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 9,150
Yes, it sure doesn't seem like the hardware "dies". Rather, there are apparently too many tenuous and heavy dependencies on environmental factors (including aspects of the installation, indeed) that are allowed to effectively interfere with consistent communications.
bicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 08:27 AM   #427
acvthree
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Carrollton, Texas
Posts: 2,437
Also, two different companies that came up with product designs that BOTH have extremely high (apparently greater that 50%) failure rates at the hardware level?

Or are we saying that two different manufacturers have that level of manufacturing faults?

I really have a hard time with that. It if were just problems with one company I might believe it, but ...

Al
acvthree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 08:45 AM   #428
bicker
Gruff
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 9,150
Exactly! So what is common between the two companies? The specification. That's where the lack of robustness almost surely stems from.
bicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 11:57 AM   #429
lrhorer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Posts: 6,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelK View Post
my 2 cents-

the thing is solid state- how many solid state peicesof hardware just up and die?
Whisker growth, susceptibility to cosmic radiation, improperly cleared etching solutions, polluted chemistry, improper grounding in the manufacturing plant, excessive mechanical shock while handling, dust or other particulates present in the assembly facility... There are lots of things which can cause higher than normal failure rates in solid state devices. I'm not saying it must beone of those things, but I know for a fact there have been at least two bad manufacturing runs of SA CableCards, with very high failures in those manufacturing lots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelK View Post
Could certainly be bad firmware- but i really cant imagine that the hardware dies soo much.
Anything's possible, but if it were firmware, I would expect that every single one would have a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelK View Post
If it was only hardware then there would be as many failures in cable company boxes as in tivos
How do you know there aren't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelK View Post
(or at least delayed failures - as the inital ones maybe would get caught by whoever first pairs them)
Exactly. Of course my 6 CableCard slots are hardly a statistical sample, but every one of the cards with which I had problems were DOA. I know there are some people in this forum who have reported failures long after installation, but I have no feeling for just how common such failures are, or how they compare to failures in the company-owned boxes.
lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 12:08 PM   #430
lrhorer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Posts: 6,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtown View Post
You're talking about the same industry tries to charge us for two truck rolls to install two cable cards using the logic that they're installing two devices.
Well, that's cute. Certainly they are going to try to charge for anything they can, but that's going over the line. OTOH, at least with my local CATV provider (TWC), their billing to me is almost always screwed up, frequently to their detriment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtown View Post
The fact that a truck roll is required at all is absurd and an obvious money grab.
No, that it is not. For most CATV companies, the amount they charge for a truck roll is less than the truck roll costs them. Of course many systems utilize contractors to reduce the cost of truck rolls, but at least in my case, the total amount of time for salaried employees expended in futzing around with my CableCard installations (not just TiVo CableCard installations) was at least 30 man-hours. At a burden rate of more than $45 an hour, they lost money big time.

Last edited by lrhorer : 05-24-2008 at 12:23 PM.
lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 12:21 PM   #431
lrhorer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Posts: 6,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts View Post
Yeah, we will have to agree to disagree. The fact that I myself experienced a problem with an S-Card that was obviously a hardware fault (it worked, but intermittently) just a couple of months back, 7 months into CableCARDs "going high-volume" and that I continue to hear of other people having problematic installations would suggest to me that there's at least some element of poor hardware.
I would have to agree. Indeed, as I mentioned before, I know for a fact SA had at least two bad production runs, producing batches of cards with nearly 100% failure rates. That said, I do also know of at least one case where the CATV company got a new batch of cards but had not bothered to upgrade the software in the headend to a version which supported the new cards. (Oops!)

I think people in this forum are wanting to point at a single reason for what they perceive to be an industry wide issue, and there just may not be one single cause. It also might not even be a persistent industry wide problem, people's perceptions notwithstanding. I'm not saying it isn't, either, just that our view of the overall picture is too limited to be certain of our perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts View Post
Remember, cable doesn't want to have to buy these things at all and never did. I'm sure that the OEMs are pouring their best people into the effort to complete DCAS so that they and their buyers can eventually wash their hands of them.
Good point.
lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 12:39 PM   #432
lrhorer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Posts: 6,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post
Out of curiosity do you consider firmware problems a hardware or software failure?
It's a gray area, which is why it is called "firmware".

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post
When I talk about hardware failure, no amount of firmware updates will resolve the problem because the hardware is busted. When a chip burns out or a head crashes on a hard drive those are hardware failures to me.
In a user serviceable device, the distinction may be relevant, but in a leased device, I don't see that it is. No matter what the exact root cause of the failure, the fix is going to be to replace the unit, and from the consumer's perspective it doesn't really matter whether the manufacturer is going to fix the unit (assuming they even try - low cost devices like these may just get trashed out of hand rather than making any attempt to repair them) by replacing a bad physical component or downloading new code to the unit.

What's more, sometimes software can be used to circumvent hardware issues. Indeed, several of the manufacturers whose equipment we use at work have on numerous occasions done just that, implementing software which worked around problems found in the hardware. It's done all the time, and it's a good thing, too. A company like ours can't simply rip out a few hundred million dollars of equipment to fix a hardware issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post
66% hardware failure *after* it has gone through Motorola or SA quality control, reached the cable company, and gone through their acceptance procedure, is just too incredulous to believe.
I can tell you what the CATV company's acceptance procedure is. They sign the invoice and throw the case of cards into a corner of the warehouse until the installer signs it out. The QC on new equipment is zero.

Last edited by lrhorer : 05-24-2008 at 12:45 PM.
lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 01:07 PM   #433
mikeyts
Wireless Wiseguy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 2,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelK View Post
my 2 cents-

the thing is solid state- how many solid state peicesof hardware just up and die? It'sgenerally no where near where we all seem to thing the card failure rate is.

How many pc cards, usb drives, usb wireless dongles, etc etc are out there and just work?

Could certainly be bad firmware- but i really cant imagine that the hardware dies soo much. If it was only hardware then there would be as many failures in cable company boxes as in tivos (or at least delayed failures - as the inital ones maybe would get caught by whoever first pairs them)
Solid state parts are often the most problematic, particularly when they're cutting edge tech. Though the Xbox 360 has quite a few moving parts (fans, DVD drive, HDD), those haven't been the problem--it's overheating of its unique CPU and graphics processor when they're working hard. The problem is gradually being fixed, but some of the fixes have required a long wait for technological advances. like the move last year from 90nm SOI for the CPU to smaller 65nm SOI chips which draw less power and dissipate less heat; a similar modification is due for the graphics processor. All of these things require a several-month-long process to complete the chip design and get it into the manufacturing schedule of some external chip fabricator, as well as a redesign of the motherboard. You don't want really want to rush any of this, since rushing the product to market is probably what caused the first problem (in the case of the Xbox, I suspect that MS knew that they were going to have problems, but really, really needed to beat the PS3 to market by at least 6 months and didn't realize just how bad the problems were going to be). Any similar problem with operating temperature restrictions in a CableCARD might also require new chips and board redesign to fix and take the same amount of time.

I think that operating environment plays a large role in the 360's problems and probably also with CableCARDs. The same card that failed after several hours of being installed in my TiVo in its enclosed home theater equipment cabinet possibly wouldn't have failed if it had been installed in the slot on the back of my display panel, which is completely open to the air. I used a launch Xbox 360 for a year in a larger, more open cabinet without a single problem. Like most 360s, it was louder in operation than desirable, but reasonable. I had to change to a more compact cabinet when I moved, which is less open; 10 minutes of running a game in that new cabinet and the 360's fans are running at maximum speed--the thing sounds like it's got a Briggs and Stratton engine running in it . Consequently, I place a small floor fan in front of the open cabinet doors when I use the 360 for something computationally intensive (playing videos or poking around through their online store doesn't get it all that hot).

CableCARDs probably involve custom chips for some serious number crunching--they have to decode streams using one encryption algorithm (proprietary, Motorola's Digicipher or SA's PowerKey) and re-encode with a second algorithm (DFAST). It has to do it at a fair clip, and M-Cards have to be able to do it for up to six simultaneous streams. All this has to be done by chips operating in a tiny metallic case with no significant cooling. Not an easy problem.

The difficulty that I have with the problems being mostly due to some sort of persistent administrative problem that's gone on for years is that such a problem with process would seem a lot easier to diagnose and fix than many hardware problems.
__________________
Mike Scott

"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
" -- hookbill

Last edited by mikeyts : 05-24-2008 at 02:40 PM.
mikeyts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 02:12 PM   #434
bicker
Gruff
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 9,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer View Post
Anything's possible, but if it were firmware, I would expect that every single one would have a problem.
That's a good point: Software and firmware problems are more likely to be ubiquitous and consistent. Hardware problems are more likely to be intermittent and inconsistent.
bicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 02:55 PM   #435
morac
Cat God
 
morac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker View Post
That's a good point: Software and firmware problems are more likely to be ubiquitous and consistent. Hardware problems are more likely to be intermittent and inconsistent.
That's not necessarily true. Software/firmware glitches can be just as inconsistent depending on what triggers the bug. A perfect example is the current video freeze issue with TiVo HDs and the 9.3a software, which is so inconsistent that the TiVo software engineers haven't been able to track it down.
morac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 03:52 PM   #436
slyone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 239
Has anyone heard when the SDV dongle will be available?
slyone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 03:55 PM   #437
mikeyts
Wireless Wiseguy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 2,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by morac View Post
That's not necessarily true. Software/firmware glitches can be just as inconsistent depending on what triggers the bug. A perfect example is the current video freeze issue with TiVo HDs and the 9.3a software, which is so inconsistent that the TiVo software engineers haven't been able to track it down.
As a software engineer, I'd tend to agree. I've literally spent weeks tracking down something so elusive it was difficult just to determine how to reliably reproduce the bug so you could do it over and over again to figure out what's going on. Of course, the person who reported the bug can probably reproduce at will, but if it was reported from the field, contact with that person is rarely available to the engineer assigned to fix it .

No amount of unit testing, system testing and field testing will ever uncover every software bug. There are things that will only happen if you do things in a certain order and/or with certain timing. When you throw the product out into the wide world, people will do things with it that you could never imagine.
__________________
Mike Scott

"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
" -- hookbill
mikeyts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 04:46 PM   #438
bicker
Gruff
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 9,150
I think the difference is that whatever is causing such a software issue happens every time there is the same input, while hardware issues can be affected by something as variable as ambient temperature, humidity, etc.
bicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 05:00 PM   #439
mikeyts
Wireless Wiseguy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 2,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by slyone View Post
Has anyone heard when the SDV dongle will be available?
Products from both Cisco/SA and Motorola have been submitted to CableLabs for certification testing and both companies claim to have provided units for test and evaluation to cable providers. Assuming that they pass CableLabs cert without major incident, SA has stated that they expect their product to start becoming available from cable providers in the third calendar quarter (i.e., sometime this summer). Motorola may be even closer to release; unfortunately few providers who've deployed Switched Digital Broadcast channels are using Motorola networks.

Hopefully all will go well and I'll get it before my local TWC provider starts using their newly deployed switched digital broadcast stuff. I don't really so much care if they don't take away anything that I have now, unless one of the things they add as switched broadcast is Sci Fi HD.
__________________
Mike Scott

"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
" -- hookbill

Last edited by mikeyts : 05-24-2008 at 06:02 PM.
mikeyts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2008, 05:12 PM   #440
acvthree
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Carrollton, Texas
Posts: 2,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker View Post
I think the difference is that whatever is causing such a software issue happens every time there is the same input, while hardware issues can be affected by something as variable as ambient temperature, humidity, etc.

Yes, but there is consistency and consistency.

I once tracked down a bug in the OS that had been in the field for years. Then came a particular application that used a particular feature constantly and a signed overrun that should have been unsigned suddenly cropped up. There could have been system hang that took months to occur that no one could track down until this one application.

Software bugs can remain hidden and dormant until particular sets of circumstances occur.

Al
acvthree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 03:50 PM   #441
joelkfla
Registered User
 
joelkfla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Orlando area
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts View Post
Products from both Cisco/SA and Motorola have been submitted to CableLabs for certification testing and both companies claim to have provided units for test and evaluation to cable providers.
Thanks for the update, and special thanks for keeping it concise and to-the-point!
joelkfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2008, 06:47 PM   #442
jebbbz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 35th and Bell, Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 260
Switched Digital Video arrives July 1 in Phoenix, AZ

I just got a letter from Cox announcing SDV starting July 1. Here we use Cisco/SA equipment and Cablecards. So far, I will only lose CSPAN2 and CSPAN3 which I watch very occasionally. In all, they list 60+ channels via SDV: 21 Spanish-language, seven Public Safety, 20+ sports (Fox College, NBA League Pass/MLS Direct Kick, MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice) and some odds and ends (Great American Country, DIY, BET Jazz, etc.)

For TiVo owners there is news. The letter mentions the Tuning Adapter will be available "later this year" (boo!!!) and will be provided "by Cox at no charge" (hooray!!!)
jebbbz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2008, 07:56 PM   #443
Combat Medic
No guts, no glory
 
Combat Medic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 8,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by jebbbz View Post
Switched Digital Video arrives July 1 in Phoenix, AZ

I just got a letter from Cox announcing SDV starting July 1. Here we use Cisco/SA equipment and Cablecards. So far, I will only lose CSPAN2 and CSPAN3 which I watch very occasionally. In all, they list 60+ channels via SDV: 21 Spanish-language, seven Public Safety, 20+ sports (Fox College, NBA League Pass/MLS Direct Kick, MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice) and some odds and ends (Great American Country, DIY, BET Jazz, etc.)

For TiVo owners there is news. The letter mentions the Tuning Adapter will be available "later this year" (boo!!!) and will be provided "by Cox at no charge" (hooray!!!)
Keep that letter. That way when they try to bill you you can throw it back in their face.
Combat Medic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2008, 08:15 PM   #444
mikeyts
Wireless Wiseguy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 2,155
TiVo has always said that they expected the Tuning Adapter to be provided at no charge (and given the cable providers' purpose for it, I've expected them to charge very little). Maybe they know something that we don't (certainly they do, having discussed the Tuning Adapter strategy in detail with various cable providers ).
__________________
Mike Scott

"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
" -- hookbill
mikeyts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2008, 08:31 PM   #445
jebbbz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 35th and Bell, Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 260
I didn't mention this before but Cox is offering an STB for six months at the price of a cablecard ($2.00/month, here) to TiVo and other one-way cablecard device owners so they can avail themselves of SDV channels (and PPV and VoD -- the latter also rolling out here now). Cox seems pretty accomodating for now, at least.
jebbbz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2008, 01:18 PM   #446
mikeyts
Wireless Wiseguy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 2,155
CableLabs has certified both the Motorola and Cisco Tuning Adapters. You can see an article about it here.
__________________
Mike Scott

"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
" -- hookbill
mikeyts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2008, 01:24 PM   #447
MickeS
Registered User
 
MickeS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 25,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts View Post
CableLabs has certified both the Motorola and Cisco Tuning Adapters. You can see an article about it here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by article
The SDV adapters are expected to be offered by MSOs including Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Cox Communications and Cablevision Systems, to subscribers in areas where they are deploying switched digital video technology. The cable operators and TiVo have said they plan to work cooperatively to notify TiVo subscribers that they will need the new external adapter.

Initially, the cable industry had expected the SDV tuners to be ready to deploy in the second quarter of 2008.
I wonder when they will be able to get these to consumers?
MickeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2008, 01:37 PM   #448
mikeyts
Wireless Wiseguy
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 2,155
I'm sure that's pretty much up to the providers. Both Moto and Cisco have high manufacturing capacity and could turn out millions of these simple gadgets a month, if there was a demand. Right now, they only need a total of a couple hundred thousand nationwide (only subs with TiVo Series3 and TiVo HD have any use for them, and some of them are non-subscribers or core basic cable subs who won't need them).

The providers have to stock these things, decide whether or not they'll allow self-install (probably not) and train both their sales CSRs and field techs on them. Unless they've done training using the pre-certification prototypes (possible), that'll take a while.
__________________
Mike Scott

"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
" -- hookbill
mikeyts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2008, 02:39 PM   #449
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeS View Post
I wonder when they will be able to get these to consumers?
They won't be available directly to consumers, only available through your cable provider.

If cable card is any indication then we are going to see delays, programming screw ups and general incompetence from the cable companies regarding these SDV resolvers.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2008, 05:53 PM   #450
morac
Cat God
 
morac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
If cable card is any indication then we are going to see delays, programming screw ups and general incompetence from the cable companies regarding these SDV resolvers.
I wouldn't expect as many problems from these as from cable cards. With CCs there is no way for the cable company to know if they are working or not since the TiVo can't tell the company head end when the cards are paired correctly.

With the tuning adapter, the cable company should instantly know whether or not something is wrong since the adapter can talk to the headend. So barring some kind of manufacturing or configuration glitch installing the adapters should be fairly straightforward.
morac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:41 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |