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Old 03-30-2008, 04:53 PM   #1111
esb1981
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Nevermind. I pulled the side out a little bit, and then it popped right off. Now, to somehow get the current drive out...
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Old 03-30-2008, 10:25 PM   #1112
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UPS shows it having reached their return warehouse over a week ago. Buy.com still shows it as waiting to be returned.
Did you get a chance to call them yet?

Mine is due to arrive at their warehouse tommorrow. If I can get them to credit me I may go with the Hitachi from Newegg or maybe forgo the internal route and get the My DVR.
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Old 03-30-2008, 10:32 PM   #1113
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Buy.com

I sent an email earlier this week and they said it takes 5-7 business days to process returns. So this Tuesday will be 7 days. I got tired of waiting and went to Fry's two weeks ago; got a 1TB Maxtor. It's working like a charm--very quiet.

Buy.com said that they won't give credit for defective drives; they'll be sending a new drive. I didn't push it because I can use it in a second TiVoHD I have coming my way (found another Woot refurb). Hopefully the 2nd TiVo box and the hard drive will arrive around the same time.
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Old 03-30-2008, 11:05 PM   #1114
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[snip]
What do folks recommend for a replacement drive? I'm not sure I want to try another WD10EACS, but I may try another before moving on.

--Lee
I had trouble with both 750Gb and 500Gb of the WD GP drives. I got the Samsung F1 750Gb and within 4 minutes it was up and running in my THD without a hitch. I have not had any random reboots. Only the GSOD when i was testing the output resolution. No problem using Hybrid 480p/1080i setting.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:52 AM   #1115
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Very frustrating! Kickstart 57 and 58 haven't helped. It has locked up on me 4 times this morning. With the stock drive I didn't have a single lock up in 3+ months of ownership.

Pulling the WD10EACS out of the THD and putting in my PC I am now finding it fails WD's quick SMART test. Before I installed it in the THD, it passed this quick test as well as the extended test. This sounds like infant mortality.

What do folks recommend for a replacement drive? I'm not sure I want to try another WD10EACS, but I may try another before moving on.

--Lee
Sorry to hear that you're having trouble with your upgraded hard drive. Ours is still humming along fine, knock on wood (touching head). How old is it your drive? It has a 3 year warranty and IIRC the failure rate was about the same as the national average. But that isn't much comfort when all of your recordings are on the line I know.

I guess what I'd do is get them to replace it and if you don't want to risk it in your TiVo, put it in your PC or sell it on ebay. You might want to try the newer WD AV GP DVR dedicated drive, the Hitachi CinemaStar or the Samsung chewy2314 recommends. I'm a Seagate man myself, but I've read more than a few negative posts about their new 1TB drives.

Let us know what you decide.
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Old 03-31-2008, 07:55 AM   #1116
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Sort of not related to the thread, but I will try......

Along the lines of some folks have reported that their eSata USB cable that came with their My DVR Expander has not been great......

I have an external WD HD on my computer at home. I am finding that either the cable or the port on the HD is flaky. It seems sometimes that if I just barely touch the cable that the HD disconnects and then connects back. I don't think that it has been pushed up against the wall or anything, but you never know.

Would anyone suggest trying another USB cable for the Western Digital My Book 250gb drive? If so, which one?

The drive is past warranty so no hope of going back to WD if it turns out to be the connecting port on the drive......

Thanks.
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Old 03-31-2008, 08:12 AM   #1117
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The drive was less than 48h old from when it first started crashing my THD. I decided to do an advance RMA through WD rather than do the return for replacement through Buy.com as I suspect I'll have a new drive much faster with this route, and I've had good luck with RMAs through WD in the past.

I'll give the second one a shot after more thorough testing on the PC before it goes in my THD. The last time I did the quick and extended read test before installation, but this time I'll probably do more than one pass and also include the write test in the mix.

Since I only had it in for a couple days, I didn't lose many recordings. My most valuable recordings were TTG'ed to my PC for safekeeping.

I'm glad the drive conclusively and rapidly fails WD's own drive diagnostics. I was worried this was some strange TiVo interaction where the drive was actually fine for PC use, but the diagnostics clearly indicate that is not the case. This makes RMA very easy.

BTW, this was the "Cavalry" 1TB internal disk from Buy.com. The drive goes through WD's RMA web site, including serial number check, just fine. I was slightly worried the Cavalry aspect of it could complicate things.

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Old 03-31-2008, 10:33 AM   #1118
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Sort of not related to the thread, but I will try......

Along the lines of some folks have reported that their eSata USB cable that came with their My DVR Expander has not been great......

I have an external WD HD on my computer at home. I am finding that either the cable or the port on the HD is flaky. It seems sometimes that if I just barely touch the cable that the HD disconnects and then connects back. I don't think that it has been pushed up against the wall or anything, but you never know.

Would anyone suggest trying another USB cable for the Western Digital My Book 250gb drive? If so, which one?

The drive is past warranty so no hope of going back to WD if it turns out to be the connecting port on the drive......

Thanks.
IIRC there were several reports of the exact same problem when the WD My DVR Extenders were first introduced. Some had problems with the cable itself (some cables simply did not work) and others with the connector on the enclosure. Perhaps your My Book external drive on your PC suffers from the same issue.

I'm not clear if you have it connected via USB or eSATA. If it's USB you can get very good cables for very good pricing from monorpice.com or at any local CE store of course (no need for "gold plated" monster style cables, but stay away from the cheepies).

The best thing to do would be to connect it as an eSATA drive if at all possible using a SIIG Serial ATA external cable which is less than $10. That will eliminate the USB issues and give you much higher transfer speeds. If you don't have an eSATA connector available you can easily install a SATA PCI adapter card (if you have an open slot) like this one. I don't generally recommend Tiger Direct because of their lousy pricing, but they actually seem to have the best price at the moment ($19.99).
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:37 AM   #1119
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The drive was less than 48h old from when it first started crashing my THD. I decided to do an advance RMA through WD rather than do the return for replacement through Buy.com as I suspect I'll have a new drive much faster with this route, and I've had good luck with RMAs through WD in the past.

I'll give the second one a shot after more thorough testing on the PC before it goes in my THD. The last time I did the quick and extended read test before installation, but this time I'll probably do more than one pass and also include the write test in the mix.

Since I only had it in for a couple days, I didn't lose many recordings. My most valuable recordings were TTG'ed to my PC for safekeeping.

I'm glad the drive conclusively and rapidly fails WD's own drive diagnostics. I was worried this was some strange TiVo interaction where the drive was actually fine for PC use, but the diagnostics clearly indicate that is not the case. This makes RMA very easy.

BTW, this was the "Cavalry" 1TB internal disk from Buy.com. The drive goes through WD's RMA web site, including serial number check, just fine. I was slightly worried the Cavalry aspect of it could complicate things.

--Lee
Thanks for the update Lee...good info and glad it's the drive and not a TiVo issue as well.

It may just be a coincidence this time, but it seems like Cavalry products get more than their share of complaints on this and other forums. Going through WD should ensure that you'll get a solid replacement in any case. Thanks again and let us know how it goes.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:46 AM   #1120
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IIRC there were several reports of the exact same problem when the WD My DVR Extenders were first introduced. Some had problems with the cable itself (some cables simply did not work) and others with the connector on the enclosure. Perhaps your My Book external drive on your PC suffers from the same issue.

I'm not clear if you have it connected via USB or eSATA. If it's USB you can get very good cables for very good pricing from monorpice.com or at any local CE store of course (no need for "gold plated" monster style cables, but stay away from the cheepies).

The best thing to do would be to connect it as an eSATA drive if at all possible using a SIIG Serial ATA external cable which is less than $10. That will eliminate the USB issues and give you much higher transfer speeds. If you don't have an eSATA connector available you can easily install a SATA PCI adapter card (if you have an open slot) like this one. I don't generally recommend Tiger Direct because of their lousy pricing, but they actually seem to have the best price at the moment ($19.99).
Rich, I am hooked up via USB. I don't really need the speed increase if I went with sata/esata as you suggest. Plus, if I did that, wouldn't I also need an adapter to plug the sata cable into the My Book USB port. Between the SIIG cable, the PCI card, and an adapter, we're talking $40 and I don't yet know if it is the cord or the connector.

I think what I will do is try and call WD first. If no luck at all with them, then I'll just probably order a new cable from Monoprice. I love their stuff!
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:55 AM   #1121
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Rich, I am hooked up via USB. I don't really need the speed increase if I went with sata/esata as you suggest. Plus, if I did that, wouldn't I also need an adapter to plug the sata cable into the My Book USB port. Between the SIIG cable, the PCI card, and an adapter, we're talking $40 and I don't yet know if it is the cord or the connector.

I think what I will do is try and call WD first. If no luck at all with them, then I'll just probably order a new cable from Monoprice. I love their stuff!
Okay. When you said "eSata USB cable" in your post I assumed it was capable of both (having a USB as well as an eSATA connector). If you can switch to the eSATA connector you'll eliminate the loose connection problem. But if it's USB only, then another cable would be in order if WD won't come to the rescue.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:03 AM   #1122
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WD says no way since I am out of warranty. No biggie. The cables at monoprice are very well priced. 6 foot would be fine, but 10 foot may give me room to place the drive in a different spot.

Thanks for your help!


[EDIT]
What's weird is that when it connects back, sometimes I get the "This device would perform faster in USB 2.0 port" or whatever. But it is going right into the back USB ports on the PC. This tends to tell me, combined with my problem per se, that maybe it is in fact the cable.

Anyways, just ordered a 10 foot cable from monoprice.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:52 AM   #1123
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With all this talk about lousy eSATA cables, I was wondering what people's experience has been with the eSATA cable that comes with the Antec MX-1. Is the included cable OK, or will I need to order a different cable?
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:13 PM   #1124
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With all this talk about lousy eSATA cables, I was wondering what people's experience has been with the eSATA cable that comes with the Antec MX-1. Is the included cable OK, or will I need to order a different cable?
I bought an MX-1 back in March or so when it was discovered that you could add an expansion drive to Series3's using KS62. The cable it came with worked flawlessly until I removed it and installed a 1TB internal drive last October.

There were a flurry of reports of the eSATA cable Antec was sending out with the MX-1 as being faulty last summer though. That seemed to last about 45 to 60 days and then it died down. I attributed it to the sudden demand for the enclosures (everyone ran out of them for a few weeks) to Antec sourcing some poor quality cables at the time. IIRC anyone that had a problem was taken care of by Antec right away to their credit.

I don't recall seeing any complaints about the MX-1 or the eSATA cable that comes with it for several months now. Based on that the eSATA cable that Antec supplies with their MX-1 enclosures should work fine now IMHO, but YMMV of course. If you're worried you could always buy one of the SIIG cables and keep one or the other in a drawer JIC.
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:27 PM   #1125
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With all this talk about lousy eSATA cables, I was wondering what people's experience has been with the eSATA cable that comes with the Antec MX-1. Is the included cable OK, or will I need to order a different cable?
I got my MX-1 back in January but opted to use the SIIG cable so I never tried the Antec supplied cable. The only physical difference I could see was the portion of the connectors on the SIIG cable measured from the shoulder to the end of the metallic part were a bit longer than on the Antec supplied cable.

In looking at all the discussion of eSata cables it appears that the eSata connector on the S3 may not be quite standard. Could this explain why the SIIG cables got on the recommended list?
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:41 PM   #1126
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I have a tivo-hd refurb from woot. I first upgraded to a 500gb Seagate 7200.10. Worked/works great. Then I saw the deal at buy.com for the 1gb WD gp drive. After upgrading using winmfs, the tivo hd crashed after a day and went into an infinite loop of powering up, few minutes screen, gsod and back to powering up -- all in the a 5 min span. Then, I tried a 750gb Seagate 7200.10. That crashed and did the infinite loop in about an hour. I also tried a Fry's Maxtor Basics 1Tb drive with 32mb cache. That also crashed and went into the infinite loop after one day. Now, I'm waiting on a Seagate 750gb DB35 to see how it works.

Note: using winmfs, I tried restoring from a truncated backup of the 500 gb drive and mfscopy of the 500gb. Supersize option on. I also tested the 1TB drives with WD diagnostics and both passed using extended tests.

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Old 03-31-2008, 02:57 PM   #1127
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... You might want to try the newer WD AV GP DVR dedicated drive, the Hitachi CinemaStar or the Samsung chewy2314 recommends. I'm a Seagate man myself, but I've read more than a few negative posts about their new 1TB drives.
Has anyone had success w/ the WD5000AVVS or 7500AVVS?
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:10 PM   #1128
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I'm wondering if some of these boot up issues may be the Tivo power supply not being able to provide enough power for the hard drive especially during the drive's initial spin-up when it draws more power. It's hard to believe that it would be so picky with drives that use a standard protocol.

Maybe a cap upgrade on the power supply will make things more stable in general.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:16 PM   #1129
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I'm wondering if some of these boot up issues may be the Tivo power supply not being able to provide enough power for the hard drive especially during the drive's initial spin-up when it draws more power. It's hard to believe that it would be so picky with drives that use a standard protocol.

Maybe a cap upgrade on the power supply will make things more stable in general.
But there are thousands of other drives of this size, in all other makes and models, that the Tivos are successfully employing?
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:16 PM   #1130
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Perhaps the refurbs are not up to the same quality of the normal tivo hds? I mean, they may work with the stock drives, but when pushing the power supply, some may just crap out?

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Old 03-31-2008, 04:39 PM   #1131
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Perhaps the refurbs are not up to the same quality of the normal tivo hds? I mean, they may work with the stock drives, but when pushing the power supply, some may just crap out?
I have a refurb woot.com THD and didn't have any luck with the desktop 500Gb and 750Gb versions of the WD GP drives. I want to say it has something to do with the firmware (WD can then charge more for an "AV" version!). I have no issues with the Samsung F1 750Gb. BTW, (out of stock of course), zipzoomfly had them for $118 + shipping.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:44 PM   #1132
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Yea, if the seagate db 35, I'll look at the F1. I'm also thinking of getting an esata case and testing the power supply theory...
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:29 PM   #1133
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...The best thing to do would be to connect it as an eSATA drive if at all possible using a SIIG Serial ATA external cable which is less than $10. That will eliminate the USB issues and give you much higher transfer speeds. If you don't have an eSATA connector available you can easily install a SATA PCI adapter card (if you have an open slot) like this one. I don't generally recommend Tiger Direct because of their lousy pricing, but they actually seem to have the best price at the moment ($19.99).
Note that that Vantec card from Tiger is an old design and only supports the original 1.5Gb/sec SATA spec and has no eSATA port on it, just a regular SATA port on the outside and one on the inside. Will work fine with a bare drive.
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:33 PM   #1134
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Note that that Vantec card from Tiger is an old design and only supports the original 1.5Gb/sec SATA spec and has no eSATA port on it and, just a regular SATA port on the outside and one on the inside. Will work fine with a bare drive.
Good points, thanks!
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:10 PM   #1135
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I have a tivo-hd refurb from woot. I first upgraded to a 500gb Seagate 7200.10. Worked/works great.
After your failures, are you able to successfully put the 500 Gb drive back in the TiVo and use it?

-- just curious if some latest problem has cropped up in your TiVo unit.
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:29 PM   #1136
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Yes, I am
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:45 PM   #1137
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Connector length

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Note that that Vantec card from Tiger is an old design and only supports the original 1.5Gb/sec SATA spec and has no eSATA port on it and, just a regular SATA port on the outside and one on the inside. Will work fine with a bare drive.
I have posted before that the earlier pleminary Esata spec had a shorter connector. (The later TIVO is correct)
Also, I believe that longer than one meter cable length is unwise. (I had problems with a two meter cable even though it was certified Esata 2)
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Old 03-31-2008, 07:06 PM   #1138
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I have posted before that the earlier pleminary Esata spec had a shorter connector.
Ah, so that's why there are still so many cables around that just don't work well.
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:25 AM   #1139
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okay, I have the 1TB maxtor in a kingwin esata enclosure hooked up to the tivo hd with the seagate 500gb. We'll see how it goes...
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:08 PM   #1140
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Not mine

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I'm wondering if some of these boot up issues may be the Tivo power supply not being able to provide enough power for the hard drive especially during the drive's initial spin-up when it draws more power. It's hard to believe that it would be so picky with drives that use a standard protocol.

Maybe a cap upgrade on the power supply will make things more stable in general.
While it is possible this could be the case for some drives, I know for an absolute fact it is not the case for every incompatible drive. I have a stock S3 with an external Seagate Barracuda 750G drive that has been performing flawlessly for well over a year. Then about a year ago I bought a Weaknees 1T S3 and added a Hitachi Deskstar 1T in June. It also has performed swimmingly. A few months ago, however, I purchased a stock TiVo HD and wanted to upgrade it with a 500G hard drive, so I bought a Hitachi Deskstar 500G and used WinMFS to copy the data from the stock 160G drive to the 500. Nothing - and I mean nothing - would induce the TiVo HD to boot from that drive. It would POST and bring up the TiVo sunrise, then it would sit there apparently doing nothing for about a minute, and finally it would reboot and start all over again. No GSOD, and the /var partition was never mounted. I have no reason to believe it even loaded the bootstrap or the OS. Using an external power supply made no difference, and neither did changing any of the boot parms. It was late Sunday night, and the only store selling large hard drives that late around here was Wal-Mart, so I drove over to Wal-Mart and bought a 320G Western Digital drive. It worked just great, and now it sits in an Antec MX-1 housing booting the TiVo. The original stock drive sits unpowered bolted inside the TiVo HD for safekeeping. The 500G Hitachi is attached to a multi-boot box used to access my corporate VPN, play music, and maintain TiVos. It's never hiccoughed even once despite heavy use.
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