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Old 03-22-2008, 10:39 AM   #781
wmcbrine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webin View Post
He explained that the coax (MoCa) has more bandwidth available to work with, so while I won't ever need or use that bandwidth, I won't complain.
Did he also explain that the coax has higher latency? Left that bit out, didn't he?

As for the higher bandwidth, it's specious. In theory, yeah, you could get something like 175 Mbps via MoCA, vs. 100 Mbps via the 100 Mbps Ethernet port on the ONT. Only... a) Verizon doesn't offer any service that fast, and b) they could just make it a GigE port instead, and you'd have 1000 Mbps capability on the Ethernet line -- not possible with MoCA AFAIK.

The point of a MoCA installation is only to save the installers from having to run multiple lines -- one for data, one for video. You should not let them change an existing Ethernet installation to MoCA, and there is no reason for them to do so.

BTW, the ONT swap (and it's ONT, not OTN -- it stands for Optical Network Terminal) was probably a waste; most likely, the only reason it fixed your problem is that the newer ONTs put out a signal that's not as "hot". You could've achieved the same result with an attenuator, which the installer should've known to try. But the Verizon-supplied boxes are more tolerant of "hot" signals than the TiVos, so what the installer's meter labels as "good" sometimes isn't, for TiVo.
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Last edited by wmcbrine : 03-22-2008 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:49 AM   #782
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If the Ethernet cable is still there, you can connect it yourself, call Verizon and ask to be previsioned for Ethernet.

If you are not a heavy gamer or just a tweaker (like me), I doubt you will notice a difference.

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Old 03-22-2008, 12:42 PM   #783
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If the Ethernet cable is still there, you can connect it yourself, call Verizon and ask to be previsioned for Ethernet.

If you are not a heavy gamer or just a tweaker (like me), I doubt you will notice a difference.
Hmm... I am a gamer, but my online games are more lag tolerant (I don't play twitchy shooters). I'll take the "wait and see" approach to see how it all settles out. The Ethernet cable is still in place, just not hooked into the box.... could that be re-attached to the current box, or does that mean putting the old box back in place?

And yeah, I know it's ONT.... I can just never manage to get it straight in my brain.
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:50 PM   #784
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I don't know that particular ONT, but just open up the user door and look for an RJ45 connection. I believe all of the ONTs are capable of Ethernet.

Is this an outside setup? If the Ethernet cable is just dangling in the weather, I'd go ahead and make the hookup no matter what just to protect the cable.

You will also need to change settings on the ActionTec router. I don't remember the exact changes, but they were pretty obvious when I looked.

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Old 03-27-2008, 10:01 PM   #785
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MCard

I have had Fios with my S3 for a year now and I love it. However, what I miss on my S3 is the VOD I get on my other Fios Dvr's. I am not familiar with the mcard. I guess this means multistream which would enable VOD????
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:23 PM   #786
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I have had Fios with my S3 for a year now and I love it. However, what I miss on my S3 is the VOD I get on my other Fios Dvr's. I am not familiar with the mcard. I guess this means multistream which would enable VOD????
No. Multistream means that only 1 cable card is needed. Unfortunately the only Tivo that can use M cards right now is the HD. S3 still needs 2 cards, whether they be Multistream or Singlestream.
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:24 PM   #787
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No. M-card would theoretically allow you to use a single card for multiple tuners.

That seems to work for the HDTivo, but, for now, doesn't for the S3. You would still need two m-cards and they would function as two single stream cards.

VOD would require something completely different.

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Old 03-28-2008, 11:37 AM   #788
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Mcard

Ok, I understand. What does the mcard actually do for me then. I don't care if it is one or two cards. The only benefit is saving $2.99 a month. Is there any hope of VOD with the a Tivo box?????

BTW I spoke to a CSR the other day. I complained about the lack of any new HD channels. He stated that Fios would be adding 200 channels of HD programming this summer. Whether that will happen or not I am not sure.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:10 PM   #789
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Ok, I understand. What does the mcard actually do for me then. I don't care if it is one or two cards. The only benefit is saving $2.99 a month. Is there any hope of VOD with the a Tivo box?????

BTW I spoke to a CSR the other day. I complained about the lack of any new HD channels. He stated that Fios would be adding 200 channels of HD programming this summer. Whether that will happen or not I am not sure.
It just saves you $2.99 a month.

I'm not holding out hope that the current models of Tivo will get VOD.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:41 PM   #790
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200 channels of HD by this summer greatly exceeds previous estimates, but they are planning a big expansion in HD this year. (It's in their press releases. Don't listen to CSRs.)

Fios VOD on TiVo could in principle be done with just a software update, but it would require TiVo and Verizon to cooperate on it. I'm not holding my breath for it, either -- although, if it's true that the YouTube feature will entail true streaming support, and do it via HME, then I think that makes a Fios VOD app more likely.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:03 PM   #791
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From another thread, moved here to keep on topic:

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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Webin, you say you're "near Portland". Where exactly and how would you rate your overall experience w/Verizon and FIOS? TIA!
I'm out in Hillsboro. I put "near Portland" because I didn't expect anyone to know where Hillsboro is (except those in Lake Oswego, of course).

I went with Verizon for my Internet/Phone provider because when I bought my house in November, the ONT was already installed. I assumed this would make the initial install cheaper, but they still ended up sticking me with the full installation fee because I wanted the ethernet outlet in a different spot (It's presumably free for new installs). When they rolled out TV service in my area, I gave them a few months for the flurry of initial installs to die down before ordering my service.

Now that I have all my services from Verizon (TV/Phone/Internet/Cell), and have the hardware I'm sticking with (CableCards), I'd say that I'm pretty dern happy with the service. I think the TV looks better than anything I've seen, and I'm happy with their lineup and selection of HD channels (which don't cost extra). When I committed to a 2 year agreement, they gave me a free upgrade to 15mbps (download) Internet, which is 2.5x faster than what I had with Comcast (and I've tested to to verify I get that full speed). I've never experienced a service dropout like I had with Comcast. I found all the installers that I've had at my house (3 total, one for each service upgrade I did) to be very knowledgeable and friendly. I actually would have played some Guitar Hero with one of them if he wasn't on the clock.

The customer service and billing side of the experience hasn't been quite as good. I'd rate them even, or a little below what I'd expect from Comcast. Upon signing up, I asked for Double Play (TV wasn't available yet), and it took them about 6-8 weeks to actually get me enrolled. After a couple calls (and one two hour wait on hold), I stumbled on a wonderful CS rep (who happened to be in Seattle instead of Texas) that fixed the billing issues and refunded the extra money I was paying for each service separately. It took the billing department 3 months to get me properly enrolled in One Bill, which combines Cell and Triple Play bills into one statement. Finally, after 4 months now, they still haven't set up the Direct Payment which I asked for in November, and I'm told I should enter that online.

So overall, I'm a pretty happy Verizon customer. As long as you don't have to interact with the customer service department very often, it's an excellent experience. As of right now, I see no reason why I would ever want to go back to Comcast or any other service provider. In the coming years, I really think that the size of the delivery pipe will be the determining factor in the quality of services provided. Verizon just has so much room to work with there's no way Comcast can compete (in number of channels, picture quality, internet speed, etc) unless they upgrade their network to run fiber to the home like Verizon has.

Last edited by webin : 03-31-2008 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Fixed a stupid typo that changed the meaning of my final opinion
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:35 PM   #792
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From another thread, moved here to keep on topic: <snip>
Excellent info! Thanks!
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:39 AM   #793
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Hey guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I was an avid Tivo fan since my series 2 DTV boxes. I switched to FIOS this past December and finally broke down to buy a TiVoHD. Love the box and have Verizon in to do the CableCard installs today. This is the first one the installer has done, so wish me luck! I'll report back how it goes.

-- Steve
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:10 AM   #794
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Ok,

Tech was here and install was done. Honestly, I think the installs seem to be smoother as long as the field person is willing to call in AND the support people on the other side have been dealing with TiVos more often.

Couple quick notes on the install:

- The tech hung out in his van for a while and called another tech. The "other" guy told him he shouldn't do TiVos because he heard of other guys who did installs and broke them. He suggested that my tech give me the cards and install them myself, including activation. I told him I am more than happy to put the cards in myself, but he gets a direct line to support where I would be on the line for an hour or more and I would like him to activate them. He was willing to do the entire install after that. Overall he was super friendly and was actually the same guy who did my original install.

- There have been reports of multistream cards in the field. This install was still two s-cards. Activation was fine on both cards first time around. I tested both tuners and everything looks ok.

- No line tests were done and no attenuators were installed. I'll check later, but I have my own Radioshack variable attenuator that I used for my OTA signal. I'll use that if I run into the pixelation issues others have reported.


So anyway, I am not a big poster on these boards, but I have found it to be an very valuable reference. I thought I would post my experience, in case it helps others.


Let me know if you guys have any questions that I didn't report on.

-- Steve

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Old 04-02-2008, 12:20 PM   #795
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The Verizon STB uses MoCA. The program information (guide data), VOD and maybe PPV is done via data not video. Log into the router, you can see the IP address assigned to your STB. No need for wireless no need to run a cat 5wire to the box.

The installer uses a splitter, one leg goes to the modem/router and the other leg goes to distribute video. MoCA doesn't save any installation time or material. Is a few feet of coax and a splitter less expensive then a few feet of cat 5? Are you be suggesting Verizon run a Cat 5 cable to each STB? That's a bigger installation issue and I'm not sure if the STB even support ethernet.

MoCA is required if the customer is getting FiOS TV. A customer just getting FiOS for internet might be able to request ethernet. I think Verizon prefers MoCA so they don't have to change it if/when the customer adds video.

edited to add I don't know if you can convince an install to skip MoCA if you're not using any of Verizon's STB. They may want an install that easily allows you, or a future customer at your address, a Verizon STB. It's a shame the tivo S3 doesn't natively support MoCA. It would be nice to worry about running cat 5 or having to use a wireless adapter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
The point of a MoCA installation is only to save the installers from having to run multiple lines -- one for data, one for video. You should not let them change an existing Ethernet installation to MoCA, and there is no reason for them to do so.


Last edited by lew : 04-02-2008 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:24 PM   #796
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Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
Fios VOD on TiVo could in principle be done with just a software update, but it would require TiVo and Verizon to cooperate on it. I'm not holding my breath for it, either -- although, if it's true that the YouTube feature will entail true streaming support, and do it via HME, then I think that makes a Fios VOD app more likely.
FiOS is going to go to IPTV instead of the SDV route cable companies are using. It's the same technology as VOD. I'm hoping tivo is working on a solution, othewise I wasted the money I spent on lifetime service.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:50 PM   #797
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MoCA doesn't save any installation time or material. Is a few feet of coax and a splitter less expensive then a few feet of cat 5?
Sure it does. They only need to route one cable to the STB location instead of two, and more importantly, in many cases they are likely reusing existing coax already in place.

The interesting thing with respect to TiVo is the TiVo doesn't need any additional hardware to talk to FiOS for VOD, PPV, or potential SDV since it could just use its ethernet port for the IP communication. That is, if FiOS and TiVo could work together to get the software to interoperate.
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Old 04-02-2008, 02:25 PM   #798
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lew: There's MoCA from the router to the STB, and there's MoCA from the router to the ONT -- two separate issues. MoCA will be used between the router and STB regardless of what's used between the router and the ONT. The connection between the router and the ONT is all I'm talking about.

My own network looks like this:

Code:
+---------+
|   ONT   |
+---------+
 |       |
 |cat5   |coax
 |       |
 |   +----------+
 |   | splitter |
 |   +----------+
 |       |    |coax
+-----------+ v
|  router   |
+-----------+
 |cat5  |cat5
 v      v
My FiOS was first installed before they even offered TV, so I just got the cat5 line; later, they added a coax line. In this configuration, data travels from the STB over coax to the router, but from the router over cat5 to the ONT.

What Verizon wants to do now, for new installs, is this:

Code:
+---------+
|   ONT   |
+---------+
         |
         |coax
         |
     +----------+
     | splitter |
     +----------+
         |    |coax
+-----------+ v
|  router   |
+-----------+
 |cat5  |cat5
 v      v
...which is fine, I guess, if you don't mind the extra latency or the lock-in to the Actiontec router. You will note the savings (to Verizon) consists of one less, probably long, cat5 run -- not that expensive in itself; it's mainly the labor they're saving. But in the case where there's already a cat5 run, then there is no reason, even from Verizon's perspective, to switch the ONT <-> router data traffic over to MoCA. That's what we're talking about here. Probably the only reason it happened was poor training (i.e., "just do them all this way").
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:07 PM   #799
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Ok,

Tech was here and install was done. Honestly, I think the installs seem to be smoother as long as the field person is willing to call in AND the support people on the other side have been dealing with TiVos more often.
Hey Steve, welcome to the forum! And thanks for the excellent post. We tend to focus on the horror stories and it's good to know that things can and do go well...probably most of the time...particularly with the new kids on the block (FIOS TV).

I'm getting more excited about them coming out and laying the lines now so I can jump on board. Buh-bye Comcast!
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:31 AM   #800
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MoCA is required if the customer is getting FiOS TV. A customer just getting FiOS for internet might be able to request ethernet. I think Verizon prefers MoCA so they don't have to change it if/when the customer adds video.
I have FIOS TV and I don't have MoCA at all in my network - as you noted later you only need MoCA if you use VZ's STBs, I am using TivoHD.

Quote:
I don't know if you can convince an install to skip MoCA if you're not using any of Verizon's STB. They may want an install that easily allows you, or a future customer at your address, a Verizon STB.
It is definitely possible - in my case the ethernet cable from the ONT to the inside already existed so there was no extra work required for them to enable it (e.g. they didn't have to run an extra cable). Just FYI.
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:38 AM   #801
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When I signed up for FIOS lat Summer that is what I told them I wanted. An Ethernet connection. They wrote down on the work order to bring a specific model ONT that had Ethernet capability. Otherwise they would have brought a different model which was only capable of MoCA. And I've tried the Ethernet connection with the Actiontec and my Dlink router. The Dlink router beats teh Actiontec hands down. The Actiontec might work well with a few devices, but I have 3 dozen devices connected on my Network and with the Actiontec things were't as fast as they should be. Using my Dlink, all my connections are very fast and have no bandwidth problems like with the Actiontec.
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:29 AM   #802
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Bandwidth between your devices or bandwidth to the Internet?
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:35 AM   #803
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Has anybody had any luck with having Verizon just send you the cable cards and install them yourself? It seems kind of silly to pay the truck roll fee just to install the cards. The instructions seem pretty straightforward to follow and I'd rather just make a phone call or two rather than waiting around for a tech and paying the extra fee.
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:46 PM   #804
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Bandwidth between your devices or bandwidth to the Internet?
To the Internet. the Actiontec didn't do a good job of prioritizing the bandwidth like my Dlink router does.
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:07 PM   #805
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I read through most of this thread, but was wonding if VZFIOS was sending out M cards yet? I am thinking about getting one or two TivoHD's and would rather only to have to pay for one cable card and not 2 per tivo.
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Old 04-12-2008, 12:50 AM   #806
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I had my cablecards installed about a week and a half ago, and they were still s-cards.

-- Steve

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Old 04-12-2008, 03:45 PM   #807
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That's disappointing.
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Old 04-12-2008, 03:48 PM   #808
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I also lucked out and got the ethernet and coax run from my ONT to my "server room" (aka laundry room depending on who you ask in my house). Though, i had FIOS internet installed nearly a year ago and video service just 2 weeks ago.
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Old 04-13-2008, 12:31 AM   #809
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I had my cablecards installed about a week and a half ago, and they were still s-cards.

-- Steve
My install was 5 days ago and they were S-cards as well.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:24 AM   #810
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I just called FIOS and they confirmed that they only have S-Cards for now and they are not self install. Its gonna cost a $80 to have a tech come out. BOOO
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