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Old 11-13-2007, 01:19 AM   #361
richsadams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagz27 View Post
Does anybody know what stores besides Best Buy and the TiVo website are carrying the DVR Expander? It is out of stock at both of those places. I checked the B&M BestBuy, and it was out there too.
TiVo has an exclusive w/BB to sell the WD DVR Expander at retail. WD was selling it directly, but they've stopped doing that now. You could try contacting WD to see if they'll accommodate your request.

It was on backorder from TiVo and BB right after it came out and then was back in stock within a few days.
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:28 PM   #362
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Any guesses/rumors/inside info on when a 1 TB "officially supported" ESATA drive becomes available?
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:44 PM   #363
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Any guesses/rumors/inside info on when a 1 TB "officially supported" ESATA drive becomes available?
I was told by WD that they would have such a product by this time next year.
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Old 11-13-2007, 04:23 PM   #364
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I didn't see this answered in the FAQ. I have a TivoHD with the "verified" WD Expander 500Gb drive using the built-in 9.2 support.

If I swap out the internal drive on the TivoHD will the built-in verified external drive still work? For example, I buy a drive from one of the internet Tivo upgrade drive sellers with the OS already on it. (Yes I know/assume the expander will have to be married to the new drive and I will loose all on it.)

Or, if I use WinMFS to copy current internal drive to new internal drive... will then the external drive be married to it and still work?

Thanks,
BOb
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:12 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
I didn't see this answered in the FAQ. I have a TivoHD with the "verified" WD Expander 500Gb drive using the built-in 9.2 support.

If I swap out the internal drive on the TivoHD will the built-in verified external drive still work? For example, I buy a drive from one of the internet Tivo upgrade drive sellers with the OS already on it. (Yes I know/assume the expander will have to be married to the new drive and I will loose all on it.)

Or, if I use WinMFS to copy current internal drive to new internal drive... will then the external drive be married to it and still work?
As per FAQ #3, the plug and play eSATA drive expansion does not work if you upgrade the build-in drive on the TivoHD and Series3.

You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires the "hack" discussed in Part III, #10 of the FAQ.

Once you've added an eSATA drive, there is no way to preserve recordings on that while upgrading the internal drive. If you want to upgrade the internal drive, you've got to disconnect the eSATA drive first.
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:40 PM   #366
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Spike's guide here refers specifically to a WinMFS function that consolidates an internal+external drive to a single drive.


Update:

As of 11/15/07, Beta 6 version, this feature is not yet implemented.


Last edited by HDTiVo : 11-16-2007 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:14 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by HDTiVo View Post
Spike's guide here refers specifically to a WinMFS function that consolidates an internal+external drive to a single drive.
Edit:

I just tried this with WinMFS and it doesn't work. WinMFS crashes as seen in the attached screenshot.
Attached Images
File Type: png crash_small.png (95.6 KB, 29 views)

Last edited by bkdtv : 11-14-2007 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:53 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
... Be sure to divorce it properly or you'll have a heck of a time trying to marry a new drive later.

Best of luck!
If you divorce an eSATA drive from your TiVo, can you re-marry that same drive to a different TiVo afterwards? I understand you wouldn't have access to the programming that was recorded on it while married to the first TiVo. But assuming you were willing to make that sacrifice, would that work? Or will the TiVo only marry to an eSATA drive that has never been married to a TiVo before?
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:19 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by fergie8 View Post
If you divorce an eSATA drive from your TiVo, can you re-marry that same drive to a different TiVo afterwards? I understand you wouldn't have access to the programming that was recorded on it while married to the first TiVo. But assuming you were willing to make that sacrifice, would that work?
Of course.

You can marry a drive to as many different TiVos as you want, just be aware that you will lose recordings when you move the drive from one TiVo to another.
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:34 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires the "hack" discussed in Part III, #10 of the FAQ.
Right, so if I use WinMFS to copy my current "A" drive which is already married to the verified eSate drive to a new "A" drive, then expand... will it still be married to my current "B" drive?

Is this effectivly doing the "hack"?

BOb
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:47 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
Right, so if I use WinMFS to copy my current "A" drive which is already married to the verified eSate drive to a new "A" drive, then expand... will it still be married to my current "B" drive?

Is this effectivly doing the "hack"?
No. You must unmarry the eSATA drive (losing any recordings) before you can expand the internal drive.

After you upgrade / expand the internal drive, you re-can remarry the eSATA drive.
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:19 AM   #372
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No. You must unmarry the eSATA drive (losing any recordings) before you can expand the internal drive.
Are you sure about that? In the mfstools days, you can add drive B first and add expand drive A later.
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:22 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by fergie8 View Post
If you divorce an eSATA drive from your TiVo, can you re-marry that same drive to a different TiVo afterwards? I understand you wouldn't have access to the programming that was recorded on it while married to the first TiVo. But assuming you were willing to make that sacrifice, would that work? Or will the TiVo only marry to an eSATA drive that has never been married to a TiVo before?
Yep...as bkdtv points out, you can do whatever you want with your divorced drive...just watch out for the alimony payments.

Each time an expansion drive is married to TiVo it formats the drive, effectively erasing anything that was on it anyway.
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:53 AM   #374
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Yep...as bkdtv points out, you can do whatever you want with your divorced drive...just watch out for the alimony payments.
At the moment, given the nagging cough from my TiVoHD, I'm a little more concerned about possibly ending up with a widowed drive rather than a divorced drive.

Quote:
Each time an expansion drive is married to TiVo it formats the drive, effectively erasing anything that was on it anyway.
Thanks, that's the key piece of information I was looking for. I would have assumed such would be the case, however for safety reasons I generally try to avoid making assumptions.

Cheers,
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Old 11-14-2007, 12:04 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
I was told by WD that they would have such a product [a 1Tb drive, approved by TiVo] by this time next year.
Thanks a bunch! I was just checking the thread for an answer to that question and, Voila!, there it was.
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Old 11-14-2007, 02:06 PM   #376
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Yes, eSATA does work on the TivoHD - My story.

Ok, I've found suppositions, general instructions, etc, but a blunt "Yes I made it work." was harder to find. For those looking to do this and wanting a 'for-sure' yep it works, here it is.

What I did:
Using the latest WinMFS
- Connect the Tivo Drive as the 2nd Drive (your windows root drive is your first disk) in your pc

- Connect your planned eSATA drive via eSATA, USB, or Firewire depending on what your box supports (I used the Antec MX-1 USB 2.0 & eSATA enclosure as it has a physical power switch and hard drive fan)

- Run WinMFS, seclect your Tivo drive as drive A and your eSATA drive as drive B

- Select mfsadd (A warning that you are about to write to your Tivo drive will appear, don't fear...step into the light)

It happens quickly, from there reinstall the Tivo Drive and hook up your eSATA drive, making sure it's firmly plugged in.

My Tivo didn't want to boot up properly right away, give it some time. I had to reboot it as it appeared to be stuck on the intermidable ....just a few more minutes screen. Once I rebooted it eventually became a grey screen, one push of the Tivo button and the welcome movie started....both drives were available and all was well with the world.

I do, however, live in some fear of shutting the thing off again, time will tell if this will be a problem.

Now if I could do something about that horribly noisey Seagate ST3500630AS drive I chose to install. If you're looking for a 500GB drive to install, look elsewhere, it's noisy pretty much all the time. I put the Antec as far back into my entertainment center cabinet as I could just to muffle the noise....it's just ok now.

Hope this helps some poor soul looking for Tivo salvation. If someone wants to pick me apart for posting this, please remember that I at least took the time to report a success which may help someone else down the road.

Jim
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Old 11-14-2007, 02:31 PM   #377
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hi folks,

a couple of questions.

I've been out of town for two weeks. when i got back, i now have 9.2a, which I assume is the "GA" version of 9.2j?

so, I purchased two My Book 750GB WD drives(one for each of my S3's). i am using a 6' PNY eSATA cable.


following the attachment instructions, when I power on my first S3 with the My Book attached, it continues to re-boot with the "please wait-powering up" message. This happens with both drives and with both eSATA cables.

Is there a possbility that since I'm not using the "verified" Tivo 500GB mybook, that there is an incompatibility issue? I just don't see how that's possible. I assumed a My Book would work the same, regardless of storage size?

Oh, my S3's are bone stock internally. It just seems to me this eSATA connectivity is not fully baked based on the issues I have read about.

any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:07 PM   #378
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Z06_Pilot:

It could be the cables. Just because they came with the drives does not mean that they will work. Apparently, the most reliable are the SIIG cables mentioned in the first message.

I am using a Seagate FAP and I manually trimmed some of the rubber off to expose more connector metal.
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:07 PM   #379
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hi folks,
a couple of questions.

I've been out of town for two weeks. when i got back, i now have 9.2a, which I assume is the "GA" version of 9.2j?

so, I purchased two My Book 750GB WD drives(one for each of my S3's). i am using a 6' PNY eSATA cable.

following the attachment instructions, when I power on my first S3 with the My Book attached, it continues to re-boot with the "please wait-powering up" message. This happens with both drives and with both eSATA cables.

Is there a possbility that since I'm not using the "verified" Tivo 500GB mybook, that there is an incompatibility issue? I just don't see how that's possible. I assumed a My Book would work the same, regardless of storage size?

Oh, my S3's are bone stock internally. It just seems to me this eSATA connectivity is not fully baked based on the issues I have read about.

any thoughts would be appreciated.
You shouldn't have any problem connecting your expansion drives to your stock S3's via P&P. You should get a warning screen stating that the drive is not supported, but it should allow you to finish the installation.

I take it your S3's boot up fine w/o the drives attached. Are you unplugging TiVo, connecting the eSATA drive, turning the eSATA drive on and then plugging TiVo back in? Do you hear the eSATA drives spin up when you turn them on?

If all of that is true, my take on it, and this is just a WAG, is that there's a problem with the connection. It could be the eSATA cable or the actual connection point(s). Do you have snug connections on both ends? If so I think my next step would be to try another cable, perhaps one of the other recommended cables such as the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1. Everything may seem okay, but there are a number of reports of eSATA cables having problems in some shape or form.

The odds of you having two bad drives and two bad cables are remote at best. There are numerous folks using all manner of expansion drives (including me) with the latest software, v9.2a. Ours (Seagate DB35 in an MX-1 enclosure) has been working flawlessly for over six months like most others. There are posts of some drives not playing nicely, but AFAIK there aren't any reports of problems with the WD My Book drives not working on unmodified S3's.
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:10 PM   #380
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FAP750 with a trimmed cable. Just got the 92j.xxxx version updated last night (2am feeding).

(with fingers still crossed) It is still working on my S3 as it has for months now. Today I watched shows recorded last night before the update (it was pending when I got home from work) and I allowed it to do its overnight restart. And it recorded the noon news and some other testing.
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:16 PM   #381
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I've been running 9.2a for a few days now and have had zero issues with my FAP750. everything runs just as it has since I connected it weeks ago.
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:41 PM   #382
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Is there a possbility that since I'm not using the "verified" Tivo 500GB mybook, that there is an incompatibility issue? I just don't see how that's possible. I assumed a My Book would work the same, regardless of storage size?

Oh, my S3's are bone stock internally. It just seems to me this eSATA connectivity is not fully baked based on the issues I have read about.

any thoughts would be appreciated.
As others have mentioned above, the cable is almost certainly the problem.

I know for a fact that many My Books do not include a compatible cable. Some members were able to "trim" their cables to make them compatible, while others had to order a compatible cable mentioned in the FAQ.

There is nothing "half baked" about the eSATA support in the Series3 and TivoHD. There are plenty of "half baked" PC eSATA solutions out there, which is why TiVo officially recommends only one that they know includes the right drive and cable.
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Old 11-14-2007, 06:04 PM   #383
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Arrow

Great FAQ at the top--per usual. Thanks guys.

I just got an expander, and basically I'm thrilled with it, but I'm disappointed with the details. It seems that it is essentially a JBOD configuration with one-way migration only (except, apparently, the non-video data?). Everyone knows that JBOD is bad news--it's just the opposite of RAID--no performance increase, no redundancy, no flexibility--just easier to implement. Not only do we have to resign ourselves to losing all of our data if we want to remove the expander, but now you've got 2 points of failure: if either drive fails, we lose *all* video.

I was happy to accept those limitations for the hack, but now that this is a supported feature I was hoping that the implementation would be more sophisticated. This just seems like the old hack with a user interface added.

They could have given us a backwards migration utility, so that we could move all data off the expansion disk and back onto the original disk if we needed to in the future. I've used RAID 0 (striped) systems that had such a feature, and I'd think it would be easier to implement with JBOD.

It would have been great if the expander was added as a data drive, in addition to the original drive, so that loss of the extra drive would only lose the data on the expander drive.

We can get the flexibility I'd like if we back up all the video to our PCs, but wow--that's a lot of disk space! It would take forever also.

(I know I'm just whining. Over-all, I'm impressed with the rate at which TiVo keeps giving us new functionality, but like most tech-savy consumers I'll never be satisfied!)
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Old 11-14-2007, 06:22 PM   #384
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Great FAQ at the top--per usual. Thanks guys.

I just got an expander, and basically I'm thrilled with it, but I'm disappointed with the details. It seems that it is essentially a JBOD configuration with one-way migration only (except, apparently, the non-video data?). Everyone knows that JBOD is bad news--it's just the opposite of RAID--no performance increase, no redundancy, no flexibility--just easier to implement. Not only do we have to resign ourselves to losing all of our data if we want to remove the expander, but now you've got 2 points of failure: if either drive fails, we lose *all* video.

I was happy to accept those limitations for the hack, but now that this is a supported feature I was hoping that the implementation would be more sophisticated. This just seems like the old hack with a user interface added.

They could have given us a backwards migration utility, so that we could move all data off the expansion disk and back onto the original disk if we needed to in the future. I've used RAID 0 (striped) systems that had such a feature, and I'd think it would be easier to implement with JBOD.

It would have been great if the expander was added as a data drive, in addition to the original drive, so that loss of the extra drive would only lose the data on the expander drive.

We can get the flexibility I'd like if we back up all the video to our PCs, but wow--that's a lot of disk space! It would take forever also.

(I know I'm just whining. Over-all, I'm impressed with the rate at which TiVo keeps giving us new functionality, but like most tech-savy consumers I'll never be satisfied!)
Others can expound on all of the details, but the basic/primary reason for the expansion architecture being what it is today was to ensure compliance with various laws and regulations forced on TiVo by several industries and regulatory authorities.

That’s also why it’s taken them so long to get it into the wild. There are just too many parties with selfish interests (read: greedy) involved in what should have been a simple feature.

I'm sure had TiVo had their way it would have been a much different result, more flexible and robust...along the lines you suggest.

EDIT: Earlier I stated that there was a method to move everything from the eSATA and internal HDD's to a single internal drive using WinMFS and the element of the program required to do that is there, but on further investigation it is not currently active.

Last edited by richsadams : 11-16-2007 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:13 PM   #385
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I just wanted to thank everyone here for all their input, from the kickstart method to plug-n-play under 9.2a. I finally took the plunge and added a 500GB DB-35 with an MX-1 and SIIG cable to my Series 3 and it was even easier than I expected. I paid a bit more than what I would have for the sanctioned WD drive, but the info here makes me feel confident it was the right choice.

thanks again!
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Old 11-16-2007, 04:19 AM   #386
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Great Post! and extremely useful information.

As a first time Tivo user, though not at all unfamiliar with tinkering with computer parts, I've dediced to go ahead and simply get the WD Expander as an upgrade. I suppose I just want to enjoy the Tivo experience and try to heal some scars left by my SA8300HD (Cox Las Vegas) Or at least until...

1. 90 day unit warranty runs out.
2. 1TB HD kits decrease in price and Samsung or WD come out with quieter 1TB drives

I know an upgrade is imminent though.

Again..great post and incredibly useful information!

*Only thing is, the Expander is nowhere in site online or in my area.
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:33 AM   #387
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Spike's guide here refers specifically to a WinMFS function that consolidates an internal+external drive to a single drive.
I mentioned this earlier and I see bkdtv and rich investigated further with spike and the feature has not yet been implemented.

Another thing I discovered is that a THD drive can only expand once due to a bug. Spike says he thinks he found the bug and if so the next release (beta 7?) will contain the fix.
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Old 11-16-2007, 02:19 PM   #388
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I mentioned this earlier and I see bkdtv and rich investigated further with spike and the feature has not yet been implemented.
Turns out that is in fact true (I corrected my earlier post). Hopefully Spike will have some time to finalize that ability soon.
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Old 11-16-2007, 02:33 PM   #389
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Turns out that is in fact true (I corrected my earlier post). Hopefully Spike will have some time to finalize that ability soon.
He just responded today that the 2 to 1 consolidation function will take some time, but the bug fix to allow multiple drive expansions (MFSadds) on the THD will be out "soon."

http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2497#2497
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:52 PM   #390
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He just responded today that the 2 to 1 consolidation function will take some time, but the bug fix to allow multiple drive expansions (MFSadds) on the THD will be out "soon."

http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2497#2497
Cool. Good news/bad news, but a fix is in the works.

I am amazed how much time and effort he puts into all of this...for free as far as I can see (other than some website ad income). His dedication is admirable. (A Wayne's World "We're not worthy" chant comes to mind )
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