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Old 11-12-2007, 02:08 AM   #91
HiKent
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Ok, but to get a real count, deduct all the "on demand" and PPV channels because we already didn't get them and/or couldn't use them with cable cards anyway.

Then take a close look at what the differences are. The main differences are in the HD package. The rest is noise as far as I'm concerned.

And, yes, that's significant.

They have a similar listing for Kahului Maui, but as far as I know, they haven't implemented SDV on Maui yet. I still get Discovery HD Theater, HD-NET, etc.

-David
Here in Honolulu, they got rid of all HDs except 4 locals (NBC, FOX, ABC, PBS), HBO, Showtime, ESPN, TNT, & HDT. All the other ones went away.
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:16 PM   #92
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Cut to gray in Kailua Kona

Argh!!! Got my cablecards on Monday, had 3 days of Tivo bliss, and then Thursday lost huge swaths of programming, including all non-broadcast HD channels and several non-HD channels too (TBS, TNT, to name two).
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:19 PM   #93
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You should not have lost TNT and TBS on 551 and 553. Are you saying you did? That has nothing to do with SDV.

-David
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:42 PM   #94
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Yeah, I lost a number of non-HD channels but a series of reboots got them back. I imagine this was a glitch caused by the change to SDV on the non-broadcast HD channels, which seem to really-truly gone away.
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Old 11-15-2007, 05:35 AM   #95
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I am in the midst of fighting with Time Warner Cable on Maui. I bought the S3 when Tivo-2-go and file transfer were finally enabled. Also, I figured since the July 1, 2007 deadline had passed and the FCC was finally enforcing the cablecard legislation, there wouldn't be a problem. Was I wrong.

When I called to order the installation, the CSR insisted that I would need a cable box to view HD on my Tivo. I told her that the FCC required that they provide cablecards. She replied that they "don't have to provide cablecards that work." I told her to send out two cablecards that worked with the installer.

Of course they sent out the crippled singlestream cablecards. The installer told me that he was told they would not be installing any more cablecards so he was surprised by the order. I helped him install them. The CSR had canceled all of my existing service so we had to straighten that out. I kept one of the HD boxes but when it failed to power up later that night I took it in for a new HD box. I complained to the CSRs in the Maui office that what they were doing was illegal. I said that they need to be running boxes with cablecards, according to the FCC.

When I got home I finally figured out what they are doing. Inside the new HD box is a multistream cablecard. They are attempting to kill the cablecard mandate by offering the crippled one to subscribers while running their cable boxes with the multistream HD-capable card. This has got to be a violation of FCC legislation. They either need to run their cable boxes with the crippled cablecards or provide us with the multistream cards that they use for their boxes. They say they don't have to support tivo but they are federally mandated to support cablecard. A cablecard without HD is useless. That is what they are counting on.

Please join me in filing a complaint with both the FCC and the DCCA.

http://www.hawaii.gov/dcca/areas/catv/complaint/

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cib/fcc475.cfm

Anyone want to contact KHON2's Actionline?

KHON2 NEWS Gina Mangieri covers problems consumers face -- and helps find solutions. Read more about recent Action Line stories through links on this page, or send us tips to track down by calling 591-0222

Terrie
(Who is mad as ....)

Last edited by mauigirl : 11-15-2007 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 11-15-2007, 07:23 AM   #96
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There's really no effective difference between having two singlestream cards vs a single multistream card in the THD. They both do the same thing. So I'm really not sure what your rant is all about. They do have to offer cablecards and they do, but the SDV thing (which isn't on Maui yet) will stop us from getting several HD channels until the industry provides the USB dongle to do the 2-way thing needed to get the SDV channels. This already affects our fellow S3 and THD owners on Ohahu and the Big Island, but it isn't here on Maui yet.

I've found that the people in the Maui office are pretty clueless when it comes to dealing with anything but their own equipment. I've gotten pretty upset trying to deal with them also. Eventually I got somebody in the main office to deal with my issues. It took a while though. Be persistent, and don't deal with the Maui office in person. Use their email form or call the main number. Ask them to escalate any issues you are having in setting up your service. SDV isn't implemented on Maui yet, so you should be able to get the HD package authorized for your CCs. If not, you should still be able to get the HD locals and HBO and SHO HD with your cablecards.

-David

Last edited by Icarus : 11-15-2007 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:46 PM   #97
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David,

I made an assumption that the multistream cards handled the the SDV channels because, after all, the multistream cards handle the 2-way thing. My mistake. But you don't understand why I'm upset because I'm told my $600 HD DVR will not get HD without a cable box? You really don't understand? SDV may not be on Maui yet but I cannot get those channels. So they won't sell me the package, is that it? They also decided that the HBO on two cablecards and one box should cost over $45/month.

Most of my problems were with the Oahu office. They were the ones who screwed up my order. They are the ones wanting to charge me for three separate HBO subscriptions instead of the duplication of service. They were the ones that told me to go ahead and file a complaint with the FCC. As far as I'm concerned, the people in the Kahului office were OK. The installer was OK. It was the Oahu CSR who said that they "don't have to provide cards that work."

I've worked for Time Warner Cable on Maui. You get a better result when you talk to someone face-to-face. I plan to do that... soon. But I'm still going to send complaints to the FCC and the DCCA. It was their intent to do away with the cablecard and by making the SDV channels all HD, they have succeeded.

Terrie
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:04 PM   #98
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You can get HD channels on Maui. (with or without SDV). The HD locals (KHON-HD, KITV-HD, and KHNL-HD) and HBO-HD and SHO-HD are not going to SDV. You can get the rest of the HD lineup with a cablecard on Maui until Maui turns on SDV. (They may not be willing to sell it, but with your duplicate service, you'll probably get it on the cablecards anyway since you have the HD package on your HD cable box.)

Multistream does not mean 2-way. It just means that it's a single card that can decode more than one stream at a time.

I guess your experience with the local office and the people on the phone has been the opposite of mine. After the last time I was in there, I was ready to switch to sat. It took somebody in another office that went beyond the call of duty to solve my problem. If you have anything but a mundane problem and go into the office in Kahului, a long line of people will form behind you waiting to switch a box, return a box or pay a bill. They aren't really equipped to handle anything but mundane things there. At least that's my opinion. And I don't really think it's the fault of anybody in that office .. that's what they're trained to do there.

And I really didn't know what you were complaining about in your first post. All I knew is that you were a bit confused and having a problem. All I did was try to help.

Edited to add: In the main office they have a special desk for HD and cablecard issues. Those are the people that I tend to get some results from.

-David

Last edited by Icarus : 11-15-2007 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:15 PM   #99
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So they won't sell me the package, is that it?
That's what it sounds like. Your Tivo's inability to receive HD has nothing to do with the cablecards.

Quote:
It was their intent to do away with the cablecard and by making the SDV channels all HD, they have succeeded.
This is just an issue of two technologies that currently don't work together. A fix will probably come out sometime in the future, you just need to be patient and wait for it. It has nothing to do with TW's "intent to do away with the cablecard".
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:12 AM   #100
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...They do have to offer cablecards and they do, but the SDV thing (which isn't on Maui yet) will stop us from getting several HD channels until the industry provides the USB dongle to do the 2-way thing needed to get the SDV channels.
...
The S3 will also have to be upgraded to support the dongle. If they handed you a dongle today it wouldn't help. It may only require a software upgrade.
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:01 AM   #101
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FYI: I filed comment with the FCC on 11/7/07, attaching TWC listings and transcripts of a month's e-mails with TWC. Read if you like:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519810339

I dont know if it is related, but I hear that the FCC's Enforcement Bureau wrote to OTWC on 11/8/07 asking it to explain how TWC is in compliance with the FCC's plug and play regulations (lawyers ask questions in that way!). (note, this is hearsay, I have not seen such a letter). My understanding is that TWC has 10 working days to reply.

If any of you are having non compliance issues with TWC (that would be all of you, right?) I would strongly suggest filing comment and/or e-mailing the FCC (please, we have the FCC's attention the time is NOW). Attach any evidence.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/upload_v2.cgi (specify proceedings: 97-80)

Quit bitchin' and be as clear and rational as you can, something I find particuarly difficult right now.

Last edited by s1_junkie : 11-19-2007 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:19 AM   #102
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Nice letter.

I think the channel lineup you submitted is wrong or out of date. KFVE, TNT, TBS, etc are not SDV. Take a look at the latest channel lineup for Kona. (They do have some sort of "start over" feature on some of those channels, that isn't available for cablecard customers, but it doesn't sound like anything we would need with tivo anyway .. later I read a reply in your fcc filing where they explained this .. start over lets you start a running program from the beginning of the program via your 2-way cable box.)

When I look at the list, the only ones that really matter are the non-broadcast HD channels (except HBOHD and SHOHD). I guess if you watch the spanish stations, or subscribe to one of the sports packages you might have a different opinion. Other than that, sure, OC16, CSPAN3, CNBC World and a few other things I never really watch will be SDV. But I don't think the real loss is anything close to 135 non-ppv, non-shopping, non-on-demand channels.

I wish you would have included their "per outlet" policies in that letter. Most other TW customers only pay a small rental fee per cablecard. In our case, they charge us $8.00 duplicate programming fee per cc, and if you can get the HD pak, they charge an extra $6.95 per cc for that too. Compare that pricing to their own dual tuner HD DVR, where they don't charge for the extra tuner and don't charge twice for the HD Pak. Is a box with 2 cc's one outlet or two? They treat it as two, but their own box with dual tuner capability is treated as a single outlet.

-David

Last edited by Icarus : 11-19-2007 at 12:32 AM.
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:43 PM   #103
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1) Yes I had noticed that the text on the Kona channel lineup has changed since I copied and pasted, although they are both dated Nov 5th.

2) I have a multistream card (and I am not allowed to buy the HD pack!) so I was not aware of the "per outlet" pricing. If you feel the urge to tell the Feds.....

3) I did however just discover that the "digital pak" pricing I previously had was only available with a cable box (which was driven by my trusty S1). It would have been cheaper for me to keep the old cable box unconnected and gathering dust in a draw after getting my TiVoHD rather than returning the cablebox. And ofcourse TWC say I cant go back.

4) and to MauiGirl: you are correct, TWC will not sell you the HD Pak (or the Spanish Pak, or the Sports Pak, or the Chineese channel) even though SDV may not actually be implemented in your area (IMO a federal violation in its self).

We need a friend with a big stick.

Bob
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:52 PM   #104
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3) I did however just discover that the "digital pak" pricing I previously had was only available with a cable box (which was driven by my trusty S1). It would have been cheaper for me to keep the old cable box unconnected and gathering dust in a draw after getting my TiVoHD rather than returning the cablebox. And ofcourse TWC say I cant go back.
They won't sell you the digital pak for the first channel and let you pay the duplicate service fee for the second channel? Incredible. Talk about non-parity pricing. They are charging you ala carte pricing for everything on the first CC stream?

I can't see why you can't go back. Just pay for an additional outlet with digital service (and get the box) and have them replace your current pricing with duplicate service x 2 for the CCs. Why won't that work? Would it be any cheaper that way?

OTW really seems to have their own idea of what equal access means.

-David
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:37 AM   #105
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OTW really seems to have their own idea of what equal access means.
IMO you nailed it exactly.
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Old 11-30-2007, 03:22 PM   #106
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FYI, I just called the FCC to check up on the status: "Cant comment on an investigation in progress". Which I take as good news.

And "please add any other information you may have" - I pass this on to all of you.

Apparently when the investigation is complete the FCC will send a letter to me about my filed comment. I'll go camp by the mailbox.....

Over 2 months now, ugly cablebox users dont have any extra channels, anybody know if SDV has actually been implemented?

And if not, why exactly will TWC not sell me the HDTV package?

Last edited by s1_junkie : 11-30-2007 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:45 AM   #107
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Any updates?
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:29 PM   #108
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Hawaii SDV Update;
Even after the latest TWC cut off date about 2/3's of original HD channels remain, while all the new HD additions like CNNHD, Food network HD, History, ESPN2 etc etc do not work. still being billed for all the channels.
Wonder when the USB dongle will be available.
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Old 12-12-2007, 07:34 PM   #109
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FYI, I just called the FCC to check up on the status: "Cant comment on an investigation in progress". Which I take as good news.

And "please add any other information you may have" - I pass this on to all of you.

Apparently when the investigation is complete the FCC will send a letter to me about my filed comment. I'll go camp by the mailbox.....

Over 2 months now, ugly cablebox users dont have any extra channels, anybody know if SDV has actually been implemented?

And if not, why exactly will TWC not sell me the HDTV package?
First of all, s1_junkie you are my hero. just read your posts and email interaction with Oceanic. Great! I have been arguing with some of those same people. I have been fuming with them for over a year for double charging us Tivo users duplicate service fees and HD entertainment pack, then with the whole SDV thing OMG!!!! But you took action and I am grateful. I will be following up with my comlaints to both the FCC and OTWC.
And regarding your question, people with the TW HD cable boxes/DVRs do have many channels that use SDV (both SD and HD) that we don't get with our Tivo's.
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Old 12-18-2007, 03:36 PM   #110
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s1_junkie, have you heard back from anyone since the end of Nov? thanks
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:01 PM   #111
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Thanks, its nice to know somebody out there is as crazy as me.

I have not heard a word, I did make a second comment to the FCC on December 2nd. I just checked and my comment is not part of the public record, I called and checked on the status apparently the FCC considers the contents confidential.

I have no confidentiality agreement or any other relationship with the FCC, so how what I write could be considered confidential to the FCC is unclear to me. Time to write to the newspaper I think.

Anyway FYI here is the contents of my blocked FCC comment (but its not much use if we are the only ones who read it):

------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 2nd, 2007

There is a pressing need for the FCC to declare that Oceanic Time Warner Cable is in violation of the plug and play rules. Oceanic claims that a new distribution protocol (Switched Digital Video) means it can ignore the FCC’s plug and play rules, and even its future commitment to such a protocol allows it to deny service to CableCard users today! The FCC needs to make a statement that clarifies the plug and play rules (http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/plugandplaytv.pdf) to explicitly say that “programming” refers to the content of cable television and not to the distribution protocol.

This last point is clear if we, for example, consider a DVD; the viewer’s experience is the same if the DVD is either purchased or if it is rented. Purchase is a one-way distribution protocol; rental is a two-way distribution protocol because the DVD is returned. Changing the distribution protocol does not change the programming; a rented DVD is for the viewer the same as a purchased DVD. The meaning of programming is equally true whether the distribution medium is a coaxial cable or The Postal Service.

Oceanic Time Warner Cable claims that changing from a one-way distribution protocol, changes the programming from one-way. The claim is that the programming becomes an “advanced digital service”. Hence the “one-way programming” section of the Plug and Play order no longer applies. Oceanic’s logic is flawed, as we have seen the distribution protocol does not alter the programming and also such a protocol does not meet the FCC’s plug and play interactivity criterion. So the plug and play rules must apply, and Oceanic must be informed.

If all parties in the cable industry wish to move to Switched Digital Video (a bidirectional protocol) then there must be agreements on interoperability and schedule; and as with other TV technologies a clear migration plan. If one company dictates then consumers loose and the FCC will not have fulfilled its responsibility to the public.

Oceanic continues to discriminate against CableCard users; we cannot purchase certain programming packages because Oceanic says it will one day use Switched Digital Video. The schedule of that day is unclear, and now even less clear because of an ongoing FCC investigation (case # EB07SE352). I first reported to the Hawaii State Regulator on September 26th 2007 (and to the FCC on November 7th) Oceanic’s refusal to sell some packages; it is now December 2nd and Oceanic behavior is unchanged.

Nowhere does it say the plug and play rules need not apply now because of a possible future change.

Oceanic’s intransigence requires a clear, immediate, and public statement from the FCC requiring an end to this discrimination; also to prevent further abuse this statement should also contain a clarification of the meaning of “programming” (in the plug and play documents) as content and not as distribution protocol.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

And FYI, FCC contact numbers:

JoAnne Lucanik , 202 418 0873 (in charge of this investigation)
Bill Davenport , 202 418 1034 (Assistant Chief, Enforcement Bureau. & JoAnne's boss)
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Old 01-01-2008, 03:59 PM   #112
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seems like all the HD channels (except networks, hbo,showtime) have finally been taken off and switched to SDV.
Anyone else still have the others?

Happy New Year!!!
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:12 AM   #113
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Yes. It depends on where you are (by island, typically).

Did anybody else lose the Sugar Bowl (KHON and KHONHD feeds) towards the end of the first half of the game? The analog feed came back and then eventually the HD feed was restored during the third quarter.

-David
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:53 AM   #114
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what a bummer! on oahu the game was in HD the whole time.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:11 PM   #115
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I had all the other HD channels disabled right after I started persistent complaints!

Here in Kona The Sundance Channel just went grey, however a TiVo reset brought it back. In December I had a couple of instances of most channels going grey, these
were fixed by a reset. I assume this is SDV related, but it could be my TiVoHD.

HawaiiTivoLover: Does a TiVo reset bring back your lost channels, at least for a while?
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Old 01-04-2008, 01:06 PM   #116
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I had all the other HD channels disabled right after I started persistent complaints!

Here in Kona The Sundance Channel just went grey, however a TiVo reset brought it back. In December I had a couple of instances of most channels going grey, these
were fixed by a reset. I assume this is SDV related, but it could be my TiVoHD.

HawaiiTivoLover: Does a TiVo reset bring back your lost channels, at least for a while?
just like you, last month, some HD channels would go grey and a reset would work. Since Jan 1st however just grey screen.weird because I do still get tnt HD and HD Discovery theater(besides networks,hbo and showtime). I guess it's finally time to turn my cablecards in and get their piece of crap DVR. Have you heard anything from oceanic lately?
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Old 01-04-2008, 09:29 PM   #117
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Sorry, no news from Oceanic, but it's not like they call me anyway.

After some pushing, the FCC finally published my last rant:
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/r...ent=6519821104

The redacted clause is: "and now even less clear because of an ongoing FCC investigation (case # EB07SE352). "

The Tuning Resolver stuff is clearing up:

From the National Cable & Telecommunications Association:
http://www.ncta.com/ReleaseType/MediaRelease/4439.aspx

and it looks like the major equipment vendors are on board:
http://www.lightreading.com/document...&doc_id=140436

Sadly with this visible on the horizon it does not seem, to me, that there is to a lot of motivation for the droids at the FCC to do anything but wait. Wish that it aint so.

Tuning Resolver looks like another 6 months, and it seems Oceanic's active participation is required! Perhaps a few emails to the State Regulator asking him to keep Oceanic in the program are called for cabletv@dcca.hawaii.gov

Sorry to hear you are considering mothballing your (paid for) luxury vehicle for a subcompact rental, that is soooo sad. But a cablecard gives access to less and less of Oceanic's toll road. (grrrrrr.)
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:04 PM   #118
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OT, but here it is:

Just announced on KGMB news (saw the teaser on the news blurb at the end of Jeopardy, then watched the story at the start of the news):

Oceanic and KGMB9 agreed to start cable-casting KGMB (CBS) in HD starting as soon as tomorrow night. The deal was just signed an hour ago.

I wonder if it will be on channel 1009?

-David
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Old 01-10-2008, 12:05 AM   #119
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It's 1007 and it's already on.

http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/3222/76/

-David
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Old 01-10-2008, 12:30 AM   #120
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Can't get much DirectTV/Dish either (esp HD) since the birds are overhead and pointing to mainland, not the islands. eg, paradise is screwed :-P
BTW, you can get HD in Hawaii on DirecTV... Two large dish's...
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