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Old 11-09-2007, 01:33 PM   #1
Martin Tupper
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Thumbs up The Daily Show, wishlists, and you.

I've mentioned this in other threads, but someone asked that I start a new thread.

As anyone who has set up a Season Pass for "The Daily Show" knows, a few times a year, they take off for a couple of weeks and Comedy Central airs reruns. Unfortunately, they don't bother to provide good guide data for these reruns. They just used generic data. Without good guide data, TiVo can't determine if these are new shows or old shows, so it "plays it safe" and records them all, four or five times a day, for a week or two.

To get around this, the conventional wisdom has been to set up a recurring manual recording. However, the new Wishlist features in the 9.x software allow for a much more elegant solution. Here's how:
  1. Create a new WishList.
  2. Enter the show title as the first Keyword (or as a Title Keyword); "Daily Show with Jon Stewart"
  3. Give it a Thumbs up (which is the default)
  4. Enter the generic program description as the second Keyword (NOT as a Title Keyword): "A humorous slant on top news stories"
  5. Give it a thumbs down.
  6. Set the WishList to Auto Record with "first run only".
In an nutshell, this will record all new episodes and ignore episodes with generic guide data.

No more reruns. No more multiple recordings. No more random Friday recordings as part of a M-F manual recording. And TiVo can choose to record a later airing if the tuners are busy at 11:00pm.

In addition to working very well for The Daily show and The Colbert Report, I use the above method for:
  • an ongoing "Amazing Race" wishlist that will automatically record each new season, but ignore generic reruns on GSN or Fox Reality.
  • SNL & Conan O'Brien wishlists that ignore generic, late night reruns.


Last edited by Martin Tupper : 11-14-2007 at 08:18 AM. Reason: To distiguish between "Keywords" and "Title Keywords"
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:04 PM   #2
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Thumbs up

Cool tip, especially now with the writers' strike. Who knows when we'll see a new Daily Show? TiVo, probably .
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:12 PM   #3
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A very smart use of a new TiVo feature. Good job.

We try our best to have reliable guide information, but if the guys at Comedy Central take the day off, this is a good tip to get thru the blip.

I've forwarded it to Shanan, she's always looking for tips and tricks for her newsletter. Got any more?

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Old 11-09-2007, 04:32 PM   #4
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Good stuff Martin, thanks for that! That'll keep my wife from sitting there deleting them every day during the writer's strike.
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:57 PM   #5
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If have a problem with the solution as presented .. (though I don't have an alternative).

My experience with Comedy Central.. and particularly "The Daily Show" .. is more times than not .. they do not provide real data for even the new episodes.

Your solution, while helpful in knocking out the multitudes of repeats, could reject an episode that *is* new and just has generic guide data .. which wouldn't be good.

Better to have to go in and prune a manual recording .. then miss an episode in my opinion.

Actually, the best would be for them to have accurate guide data .. (Or have TiVo be pro-active and modify Tribune's data to be more accurate)
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Old 11-09-2007, 05:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MirclMax

(Or have TiVo be pro-active and modify Tribune's data to be more accurate)
I completely agree with this last part. TiVo should negotiate a special 'Pony Seat' reserved in the audience at every taping of The Daily Show/Cobert Report. And I would get to sit there, see who's the guest for that night, and then update the guide data.

That would be sweet!

Honestly, if the guys making the show can't tell us who's going to be on that night, it's difficult for us to know. We could try to farm extra information from websites, blogs, etc...but that doesn't scale, and isn't any more reliable over the long run.

But the 'Pony Seat'...I like it!

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Old 11-09-2007, 07:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MirclMax
If have a problem with the solution as presented .. (though I don't have an alternative).

My experience with Comedy Central.. and particularly "The Daily Show" .. is more times than not .. they do not provide real data for even the new episodes.

Your solution, while helpful in knocking out the multitudes of repeats, could reject an episode that *is* new and just has generic guide data .. which wouldn't be good.
That has not been my experience.

I have gotten 4 Daily Show recordings a week since I started using it, except for this week when I've gotten only Monday's (which was scheduled as a new show with blank episode info).
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony
Honestly, if the guys making the show can't tell us who's going to be on that night, it's difficult for us to know. We could try to farm extra information from websites, blogs, etc...but that doesn't scale, and isn't any more reliable over the long run.
[First off, I appreciate that you are continuing to comment in this thread .. and I hope this post won't put you off]

I have to say that I *love* the irony of your post. You see, as a Daily Show watcher for many years now .. I've *often* been annoyed that the guide data has been lacking. But once I got my TiVoHD .. I found this *really* cool HME application .. Its called "Late Night Guide" and its on apps.tv I have always found it to be VERY reliable with regards to the guest lineup for up to 2 weeks. Heck, it even knows when a repeat is going to air (and which one!). Granted I'm not saying its accuracy is 100% because schedule changes happen.. and so forth .. but if the guide data were anywhere NEAR as accurate as the information in *that* application, I doubt anyone would bring this thing up ... and its not like this is the first time this has come up over the years.

If only there was some way you could get in touch with the guy who made that HME application. Clearly he is a genius! (Or clairvoyant) .. but nonetheless .. he should be able to sort it all out for you! .. Lets see .. they list his name somewhere on that site... ah.. that's it ... his name is Bob Pony. No e-mail address is listed. But, something tells me you could find him

*big grin*

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Old 11-09-2007, 07:39 PM   #9
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Maybe Comedy Central likes the fact that our Tivos record every single episode each day, due to the lack of guide data. It could be inflating their supposed viewer numbers and thereby increasing revenue.

Even if Martin's method kill's the new Daily/Cobert episodes that don't have guide data..maybe it would negatively impact Comedy Central and help promote accurate guide data. arrr...a dream of ComedyCentral taking notice.
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:48 PM   #10
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I haven't read the whole thread yet, BUT YOU ARE A GENIUS.

I lost *some* show(s) yesterday because I came home to find 3 Daily Shows and 2 Colbert Reports recorded. Since I fairly obsessively check my To Do list, either I forgot to clean out that one day (seemingly unlikely), or I deleted something from the To Do list and forgot to check again later.. (unlikely too since with 2 tuners the "something new jumps in there" problem is less common). I know I did change *some* recordings to be save until I delete.. I think I left something like a Nova or some other PBS show 'in the line of fire' near the bottom of "view by date". But I can't be sure what I lost.

(Yes, I keep things close to full most of the time.. I haven't yet plugged in the new Tivo HD I got the other day from the lifetime deal.. I was intending on moving some shows to it this weekend.. argh.. I basically add up my recently deleted + suggestions to see if I have enough room to record before I expect to come home again.. usually it works, sine I'm recording only analog at the moment... but I came home to find the other recordings than what I expected..)

But I think I will use your technique this weekend for TDS & Colbert..
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony
Honestly, if the guys making the show can't tell us who's going to be on that night, it's difficult for us to know. We could try to farm extra information from websites, blogs, etc...but that doesn't scale, and isn't any more reliable over the long run.
http://www.interbridge.com/lineups.html
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Old 11-09-2007, 11:39 PM   #12
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Thanks Martin,

I was also worried about this methid killing new shows when the descriptions are blank, but then I noticed from this week's Colbert report, actually when the show is new, and when there is no description, it's actually completely blank, while on reruns, the show description would say something like "Stephen Colbert and guests discuss .....", so I put in a - AND GUESTS in the keyword search. I think it will work even for new shows with no descriptions. I also checked a couple of new Daily Shows I have from TTG, and the new ones, if they are blank, are completely blank, only the reruns say "A humorous slant ...". So I think this idea should work like a charm!
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Old 11-10-2007, 01:50 AM   #13
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Cleared out the To Do List...umpteen Daily Shows scheduled to record.

Used Martin's recommended setup and checked the upcoming episodes...ta dah! Zero, none. Perfect!

Cheers mate!
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Old 11-10-2007, 06:34 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunlin12
Thanks Martin,

I was also worried about this methid killing new shows when the descriptions are blank, but then I noticed from this week's Colbert report, actually when the show is new, and when there is no description, it's actually completely blank, while on reruns, the show description would say something like "Stephen Colbert and guests discuss .....", so I put in a - AND GUESTS in the keyword search. I think it will work even for new shows with no descriptions. I also checked a couple of new Daily Shows I have from TTG, and the new ones, if they are blank, are completely blank, only the reruns say "A humorous slant ...". So I think this idea should work like a charm!
An easy way to find the generic show description is to search for the show on TiVo Central Online

The Colbert Report = "Stephen Colbert and guests discuss current issues"
The Amazing Race = "Eleven teams of two travel the globe to try to win $1 million"
SNL = "An ensemble performs sketch comedy"

Another tip: You can add more than on keyword with a thumbs down. In addition to the generic decription, a thumbs down of "reality remix" on the Amazing Race wishlist will weed out recap shows.
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Old 11-10-2007, 06:53 AM   #15
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I may have to give the technique in the OP a try. For now I have four manual daily recordings set up - this way I only catch the 11:00-11:30 airings each Monday-Thursday and none of the other airings during the week. The downside is that it records whatever is on at 11:00 when TDS doesn't air. That works out to fewer unwanted recordings than a regular SP would generate, though.
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Old 11-10-2007, 12:13 PM   #16
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Law & Order: Criminal Intent -

Keyword: -Solutions to crimes play out
Title: LAW * ORDER CRIMINAL INTENT
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:39 AM   #17
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I setup wishlists for DS and CR just as you described but I'm still been getting repeats. And even if I go in to deselect shows it found that its going to record, every time I check, it only has one show listed in either WL.

I don't get it. Am I doing something wrong?

I've double and triple checked that I:

1. Create a new WishList.
2. Enter the show title as first Keyword (or the Title); "Daily Show with Jon Stewart"
3. Give it a Thumbs up (which is the default)
4. Enter the generic program description as the second Keyword: "A humorous slant on top news stories"
5. Give it a thumbs down.
6. Set the WishList to Auto Record with "first run only".

And that's exactly how both wishlists are setup, but I had to turn off auto-record because it was picking up too much crap.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:58 AM   #18
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It's picking up a new Colbert tonight? There's a guest listed and the first run date shows 11/14.
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:01 AM   #19
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SeanC,

Strange, my S3 hasn't picked up a single episode of either since last Monday. What are the episode descriptions?

I suggest:
  1. Make sure that the generic description has a minus sign next to it.
  2. Make sure that you enter the generic description as a "Keyword" and not as a "Title Keyword".
  3. Double check that you've canceled your previous SP and/or Manual Recording.
  4. Quadruple check your spelling.

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Old 11-14-2007, 08:03 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Martin Tupper View Post
SeanC,

Strange, my S3 hasn't picked up a single episode of either since last Monday. What are the episode descriptions?

I suggest:
  1. Make sure that the generic description has a minus sign next to it.
  2. Make sure that you enter the generic description as a "Keyword" and not as a "Title Keyword".
  3. Double check that you've canceled your previous SP and/or Manual Recording.
  4. Quadruple check your spelling.
OH!

I betcha it's number 2! I dinna realize there was a difference!

Thanks!

ETA:

I just checked with my slingbox, confirmed, I entered them as Title Keyword and not just Keyword....

Cool, I'll fix that tonight!

Last edited by SeanC : 11-14-2007 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:11 AM   #21
Martin Tupper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanC View Post
OH!

I betcha it's number 2! I dinna realize there was a difference!

Thanks!

ETA:

I just checked with my slingbox, confirmed, I entered them as Title Keyword and not just Keyword....

Cool, I'll fix that tonight!
Yeah, if you enter the generic description as a "Title Keyword", the WL will only ignore Daily Show episodes that have "a humorous slant on top news stories" in the title. Since none of them do, it will record every episode.
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:42 AM   #22
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Season Pass/Wishlist Search Priority Order?

Martin - What a great idea! But I was wondering if there is a way to somehow insert a Wishlist Search item into the Season Pass priority List?? I'm worried about a new show (from a Wishlist Search) not being recorded because of some show that happens to be low on my season pass list (like a show my kids record) is scheduled for the same time.
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:45 AM   #23
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Martin - What a great idea! But I was wondering if there is a way to somehow insert a Wishlist Search item into the Season Pass priority List?? I'm worried about a new show (from a Wishlist Search) not being recorded because of some show that happens to be low on my season pass list (like a show my kids record) is scheduled for the same time.
When you set up an Auto Record Wish List, it shows up on the Season Pass Manager screen. You can set it at whatever priority you like. My #1 SP is an ARWL for Redskins games.
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:28 AM   #24
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This happens on my Dish DVR too. Tribune and Comedy Central are really to blame for it.
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:50 AM   #25
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Ok, after I fixed them last night the WLs dropped all the shows with the generic data but now the WLs are auto recording (what seem to be) random shows that have actual data. All of them are clearly repeats, I've made sure my WLs are set to first run only. Just curious if anyone else is seeing this.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:21 AM   #26
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Brilliant!
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:28 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanC View Post
Ok, after I fixed them last night the WLs dropped all the shows with the generic data but now the WLs are auto recording (what seem to be) random shows that have actual data. All of them are clearly repeats, I've made sure my WLs are set to first run only. Just curious if anyone else is seeing this.
If they are episodes that appeared in the last 28 days they are still considered new. Once the 28 days has passed, the wishlist will be much more accurate.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:31 AM   #28
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Now, if we could only include (R) as a keyword, this would get a whole lot easier.

Shows like E! News, for instance, have the same description whether they're new or not ("Entertainment news."), but the re-runs are followed by a "(R)", and are recorded by the TiVo as First-Run. I haven't figured out a way to weed the reruns out, other than a manual recording.

It boggles my mind that after all these years, TiVo still hasn't figured out a way to recognize reruns that are specifically listed as reruns in the program description.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:15 PM   #29
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It boggles my mind that after all these years, TiVo still hasn't figured out a way to recognize reruns that are specifically listed as reruns in the program description.
True enough, but I can't imagine the algorithms that it would take to properly filter every phrase, word, letter, etc. in the descriptions they get from Tribune (over which TiVo has no control).

For instance I actually remember a show called "What's Happening!!" that featured a character named "Rerun". I have no idea if it's even aired anymore, and I certainly wouldn't want to record it (unless I was trying to show someone what popping and locking looked like) but if I did, eliminating the word rerun might kill the recording. Some shows have ratings...such as "R"...the same as “R” for rerun…what then? It sounds simple but if you calculate how many shows there actually are, new, old, in between, movies, specials, on and on, (tens of thousands, more?) and the description for each one (millions? ) I'm actually impressed that things function as well as they do sometimes.

There's always room for improvement, but it seems to me that the supplier should be the one responsible (in this case Tribune) for delivering a quality product and even they are at the mercy of their suppliers (broadcasters, license holders, studios, etc.). TiVo should lean on them to be sure, but I'm not so sure that I want TiVo's R&D department spending an inordinate amount of time creating programs to monitor programs that monitor programs. Whoever has to put more labor into engineering these things incurs costs...and guess who will end up paying?

Some think the answer would be to create an industry standard...some sort of 'mark' that would indicate the television show's original air date...end of story. That exists for some shows, but others, particularly news magazines use an original air date like October 23, 1980, which makes it pretty much worthless. Then an "original air date" where...on HBO, network TV, Turner, AMC? You see where this sort of thing leads? Perhaps we can get all of the studio execs in one room to agree on such a standard...should be easy enough right?

I think TiVo’s done a pretty good job with expanding the WL options (thanks TiVo!) and Martin’s certainly done a little homework to make good use of it (thanks for sharing!). It’s not the be-all, fix-all that we’d like (decent, clear listings), but it’s not half bad…IMHO.

Okay, that’s my thesis on that subject for the day. Phew! Now we can return to our scheduled program already in progress.

P.S. This new squeezed up forum format make diatribes like this one look even longer!
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Old 11-15-2007, 05:12 PM   #30
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True enough, but I can't imagine the algorithms that it would take to properly filter every phrase, word, letter, etc. in the descriptions they get from Tribune (over which TiVo has no control).
Acutally, the rerun descriptions I've seen have been remarkably standardized. At the end of a generic description, the guide data says "(R)". It seems to be a special flag, because setting "R" as a keyword doesn't work. If TiVo just recognized shows with the (R) flag as reruns, that would solve 99% of the problems.
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