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Old 11-04-2007, 04:59 PM   #241
Thom
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HDTiVo -

Here is what I would try, if you haven't already:

First, just try to get the TiVo to boot from a small Quattro setup to check for compatibility with the Quattro:

...configure your Quattro for spanning mode, and for RAID 1.
...using Linux "dd" utility, clone your original, unmodified TiVo A drive software to the Quattro. This will ensure that the TiVo software installed on your Quattro is completely identical to the software on your working A drive, even down to the partition map entries. If you don't know how to use the Linux dd utility, I'd be nervous about remotely talking you through it as you could easily obliterate your working A drive.
...try and boot your TiVo from the Quattro.
...if it boots, your Quattro hardware (as configured) is compatible with the TiVo.
...if it doesn't boot, your Quattro hardware (as configured) is not compatible with the TiVo.
...whether or not it boots, try the same thing again, but configuring your Quattro for RAID 0, 5, and JBOD, to test compatibility. Always have the Quattro configured for spanning mode. Changing the Quattro configuration obliterates the software, you will have to copy ( dd ) it again.

Second, if your TiVo can boot from the Quattro using unmodified software and partitioning, use WinMFS (or MFSTool on MFSLive cd) to copy (but NOT expand) your TiVo A drive to the Quattro. See if it boots now. This will test if the TiVo software ( and firmware ) is compatible with the enlarged partition map that the MFS utility will create on the Quattro. If it fails to boot now, but booted using different Quattro configurations earlier, repeat this step with the different Quattro configurations that worked earlier.

Third, if your TiVo was able to boot when the software was copied using an MFS utility, use that MFS utility to expand your TiVo software to fill the Quattro and see it is still able to boot.

If you can't get the Quattro to work, you might want to try an Areca ARC5010 or ARC5030 internal RAID subsystem.

The ARC5010 uses either a PATA or a SATA-1 connection to the host (the TiVo), and accepts up to 5 PATA hard drives in a RAID 0, 1, 10, 3, 5 or JBOD configuration.

The ARC5030 uses either a PATA or a SATA-1 connection to the host (the TiVo), and accepts up to 5 SATA-2 hard drives in a RAID 0, 1, 10, 3, 5, 6 or JBOD configuration.

- Thom

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo
I have been trying to get a TiVo HD to boot using Buffalo DriveStation Quattro connected to the eSata port. The DriveStation is the only drive and is ultimately connected to the internal SATA port on the MBD.

I've been able to use the same cabling to boot using a bare SATA drive...thus I don't think the cabling is the problem. I've also used the DriveStation on the PC (via USB-SATA adapter) to confirm its eSata port is working.

I've tried the DriveStation both in RAID 5 and JBOD modes ...

The TiVo HD only gets to the initial powering up screen, then repeats every couple minutes. There are a couple brief disk accesses during the process. No GSOD.

The DriveStation's eSATA port is a SATA 1 device and it actually uses 4 PATA drives internally. So I am wondering if the TiVo HD detects whether its drive(s) interfaces are SATA II and rejects them, and/or whether there is a speed/timing issue that trips it up.

Any ideas for getting this to work?


Last edited by Thom : 11-04-2007 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:19 PM   #242
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I'd just like to suggest that the WinMFS instructions in Section III 10 .3 of the original post be edited to so that it refers only to mfsadd - having the three options may be technically correct, but honestly it is a little confusing to the lightweights like me. I just married a 2nd 750gig using this process and it worked great - 218 hours total!
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:35 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canoehead
I'd just like to suggest that the WinMFS instructions in Section III 10 .3 of the original post be edited to so that it refers only to mfsadd - having the three options may be technically correct, but honestly it is a little confusing to the lightweights like me. I just married a 2nd 750gig using this process and it worked great - 218 hours total!
Done.
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Old 11-04-2007, 08:03 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canoehead
I'd just like to suggest that the WinMFS instructions in Section III 10 .3 of the original post be edited to so that it refers only to mfsadd - having the three options may be technically correct, but honestly it is a little confusing to the lightweights like me. I just married a 2nd 750gig using this process and it worked great - 218 hours total!
I just spent tons of time to read through this thread
So what your setup? Series 3 with two external or internal? And which hd brand?
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Old 11-04-2007, 09:19 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOski
I just spent tons of time to read through this thread
So what your setup? Series 3 with two external or internal? And which hd brand?
The internal is a 750gig Seagate that I put in right after the Tivo S3 launched last year (not a DB35 - it is a little loud, but not too bad). I just added the Western Digital 750gig ES16 in an external Antec MX-1 enclosure (of course the WD cost about half as much as the Seagate from last year). Before adding the new drive I applied the Hitachi Accoustic tools, set to max quiet. I then used WinMFS to marry the drives. I used my work laptop (an old Thinkpad) to do the operation - I connected both drives via USB - the Antec via its USB cable, the Tivo drive via one of those Sata-USB adaptors without even removing the drive from the Tivo case - I just took the cover off, disconnected the cable to the drive and then connected the power and sata connections.

Couple of notes - it is worth being slow and deliberate in working with Tivo drives - hook up one at a time to the PC and make sure you know which is which. I also made a truncated backup of the internal before I hooked up the second drive.

I really must give all props to Spike - the process really is literally easier than it appears.
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:28 AM   #246
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Thanks for the info. I need to back up all the shows before I add another hd. Sounds my simpler than expanding a Directtv Tivo receiver which I did few years ago.
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:31 AM   #247
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BTW, which Sata-USB adaptor are u using?
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Old 11-05-2007, 11:58 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams
I'll be installing a 1TB WD Green drive internally on our S3 soon and removing the eSATA...
Speaking of this: can you (or someone) provide a link to a best-practices way of upgrading the internal drive on a Series 3?

A Google search uncovers several sets of instructions that differ in small particulars, and I'd feel safer using something recommended here.
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Old 11-05-2007, 12:15 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOski
BTW, which Sata-USB adaptor are u using?
I bought a Sabrent from Amazon. Monoprice.com also has one that looks like it would work fine. I liked doing it this way because I could move the laptop to the tivo, and not have to remove the drive or unhook all the various cables from the Tivo. I actually have a bit of a ghetto solution on my desktop for this kind of thing - since the back of the tower is tough to get to, I have a couplr of spare internal SATA cables (I have 8 ports on my MBoard and don't use them all) and a couple of power cables dangling out the front of the tower - I just ran them between a couple of removable drive bay covers. They can be tucked back inside for appearance sake if necessary.
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Old 11-05-2007, 12:19 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOski
Thanks for the info. I need to back up all the shows before I add another hd. Sounds my simpler than expanding a Directtv Tivo receiver which I did few years ago.
I could be wrong, but I think that to back up shows you need to do a dd copy of the whole drive - and I don't think that WinMFS supports this. You may need the knoppix MFS tools setup. That's how I did it when I upgraded next year - easy for a Linux pro, a little nerve-racking for a rank amateur like myself, but I had teach support (my younger brother) on the line.
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Old 11-05-2007, 01:14 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrg
Speaking of this: can you (or someone) provide a link to a best-practices way of upgrading the internal drive on a Series 3?

A Google search uncovers several sets of instructions that differ in small particulars, and I'd feel safer using something recommended here.
Here you go...

http://www.mfslive.org/

Although it looks a little complicated at first it's really not. WinMFS is a sweet little program you load on your P.C., then remove your existing TiVo HDD, hook it up to your PC along with your new drive and do a little magic with the easy to follow steps posted on the website. The site is owned/operated by Spike2k5, one of the frequent posters here. He’s been doing this stuff since the dark ages. He has his own forum as well if you have any questions.

Once you're done you pop the new drive in and ta-dah, more space! I make a practice of saving the old drive as a backup.

Have fun and enjoy!
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Old 11-05-2007, 03:01 PM   #252
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Attach original Hard Drive to Upgraded TiVo

I have an upgraded Series3 TiVo and the original drive sitting in a box. I'm thinking of putting the original drive in an eSata enclosure and then follow the instructions in III.10. Anyone else tried this?

Will I lose any of the shows on the internal drive? Sounds like I'll lose the recordings on the original (now external) drive which is OK since I gave up on them when I replaced the drive.

I have a couple of PCs running XP ... an old desktop with USB1 rather than USB2 ports and no SATA. Will this work with USB1 connections? and a relatively new laptop with USB2 ports and no Sata. It looks like the referenced SATA/USB connector provides power as well as connectivity. True?

Recommendations?

Once "married", if I decide to get a larger drive for the external enclosure, will I need to do anything to "divorce" the drives? or do anything special to marry the new one (other than following the same procedure outlined III.10.)?
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Old 11-05-2007, 03:52 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf_the_gray
I have an upgraded Series3 TiVo and the original drive sitting in a box. I'm thinking of putting the original drive in an eSata enclosure and then follow the instructions in III.10. Anyone else tried this?

Will I lose any of the shows on the internal drive? Sounds like I'll lose the recordings on the original (now external) drive which is OK since I gave up on them when I replaced the drive.

I have a couple of PCs running XP ... an old desktop with USB1 rather than USB2 ports and no SATA. Will this work with USB1 connections? and a relatively new laptop with USB2 ports and no Sata. It looks like the referenced SATA/USB connector provides power as well as connectivity. True?

Recommendations?

Once "married", if I decide to get a larger drive for the external enclosure, will I need to do anything to "divorce" the drives? or do anything special to marry the new one (other than following the same procedure outlined III.10.)?
Why not use the new laptop - it has the better connections and you can move it to the tivo? The Sabrent Sata-USB adaptor I used includes a power supply.

Why not buy a bigger drive and keep the old internal in a drawer? You can get a 500gig for abou $100 - or about $130 if you want a DB35 (if you use a normal WD, look on this thread for the Hitachi accoustic tools).

There is a divorce procedure in WinMFS
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Old 11-06-2007, 01:39 PM   #254
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Two MY DVR Expander questions:

1. Can it be placed on its side or does it have to sit upright?

2. If the answer to #1 is that it must sit upright, can anyone tell me exactly how wide the box is? I don't know if I'll have room for it sitting between my Tivo and my HT Receiver on my media shelf.

Thanks,

Rob from AZ
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Old 11-06-2007, 02:12 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZrob
Two MY DVR Expander questions:

1. Can it be placed on its side or does it have to sit upright?

2. If the answer to #1 is that it must sit upright, can anyone tell me exactly how wide the box is? I don't know if I'll have room for it sitting between my Tivo and my HT Receiver on my media shelf.
I suppose you could sit it on the side, but I wouldn't recommend that. It has vents on the sides and rear. If you set the drive on its side, it loses perhaps 40% of its ventilation.

The dimensions are 6.8"W by 5.5"D by 2.25"H.
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Old 11-06-2007, 02:43 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
I suppose you could sit it on the side, but I wouldn't recommend that. It has vents on the sides and rear. If you set the drive on its side, it loses perhaps 40% of its ventilation.

The dimensions are 6.8"W by 5.5"D by 2.25"H.
Thanks for the quick reply, but now I'm a bit confused. By your description of where you see the vents and your dimensions, it would seem that you are in fact placing the drive on its side. The photos all show a box that is sitting upright, with slots on the rear and the top. The smallest dimension of the box in the photo would be what I call the Width, and that could conceivably be 2.25"...but not the Height. Are we talking about the same drive?

Rob
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Old 11-06-2007, 02:57 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZrob
Thanks for the quick reply, but now I'm a bit confused. By your description of where you see the vents and your dimensions, it would seem that you are in fact placing the drive on its side. The photos all show a box that is sitting upright, with slots on the rear and the top. The smallest dimension of the box in the photo would be what I call the Width, and that could conceivably be 2.25"...but not the Height. Are we talking about the same drive?
Yes.

Tivo does show the drive upright in this photo, as does Western Digital in this photo. I guess it doesn't matter whether you block one of the three vents on the unit by standing it up like that.

As shown in that photo, the dimensions are 6.8"H by 2.25"H by 5.5"D. If you sit it flat so the WD logo is on top (and no vents are blocked), then the dimensions are 2.25"H by 6.8"W by 5.5"D.

Last edited by bkdtv : 11-06-2007 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:09 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
Yes.

Tivo does show the drive upright in this photo, as does Western Digital in this photo. I guess it doesn't matter whether you block one of the three vents on the unit by standing it up like that.

As shown in that photo, the dimensions are 6.8"H by 2.25"H by 5.5"D. If you sit it flat so the WD logo is on top (and no vents are blocked), then the dimensions are 6.8"W by 5.5"D by 2.25"H.
Okay, thanks for the link. I couldn't find this drive on the WD website. Now I know that WD offers an extended warranty purchasable from the website, which is an option I may consider...

Rob
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Old 11-06-2007, 03:55 PM   #259
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I have a couple of the normal (ie not DVR) WD mybooks - they work just fine stood on one "edge" - there are enven little feet on one of the edges - at most you lose 25% vent space.
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Old 11-06-2007, 04:39 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canoehead
I have a couple of the normal (ie not DVR) WD mybooks - they work just fine stood on one "edge" - there are enven little feet on one of the edges - at most you lose 25% vent space.
You mean, you are stacking it lying on its side, instead of straight up and down like a book in a bookshelf?
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Old 11-06-2007, 04:59 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZrob
You mean, you are stacking it lying on its side, instead of straight up and down like a book in a bookshelf?
I am also a bit confused about terminology.

There is the orientation shown in the pictures, which is like a book in a bookcase. In this orientation, it is sitting with one edge with vents, which is not completely blocked, since the rubber rim is raised a bit (maybe 2mm).

Then there is flat-like-a-book-on-a-table orientation, with all three vented edges exposed, along with the lighted logo on the fourth side opposite the side with the connectors.

I think the question is whether this latter orientation is OK, from a ventilation perspective, even though the illustrations use the former orientation.
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Old 11-06-2007, 05:25 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZrob
Can (the My DVR Expander) be placed on its side or does it have to sit upright?
The My DVR Expander Quick Install Guide always shows the unit in the "book on a shelf" orientation. Furthermore, the guide never states that you may orient the unit any other way. Therefore, I'd say that the unit must always stand upright.
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Old 11-06-2007, 05:45 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesH
I am also a bit confused about terminology.

There is the orientation shown in the pictures, which is like a book in a bookcase. In this orientation, it is sitting with one edge with vents, which is not completely blocked, since the rubber rim is raised a bit (maybe 2mm).

Then there is flat-like-a-book-on-a-table orientation, with all three vented edges exposed, along with the lighted logo on the fourth side opposite the side with the connectors.

I think the question is whether this latter orientation is OK, from a ventilation perspective, even though the illustrations use the former orientation.

Yes, that's what I was wondering, since having a "top" vent seems more efficient at eliminating heat than having a second "side" vent.
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Old 11-06-2007, 06:11 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canoehead
I have a couple of the normal (ie not DVR) WD mybooks - they work just fine stood on one "edge" - there are enven little feet on one of the edges - at most you lose 25% vent space.
I mean standing (as in being upright) on one edge (as in a narrow bit) which covers about 25% of the vents (one of the 2 shorter vent panels).
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Old 11-06-2007, 07:41 PM   #265
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Chill out!

Wow! You guys are really getting hung up on a mostly non-issue...IMHO. The drive will work whether it's placed upright, on its side, upside down, it really doesn't matter.

Since this particular drive doesn't have a fan you just need to be aware of ventilation issues. If it's located in a non-vented cabinet, lying on top of a receiver it will get hot and could get hot enough to do some damage to the HDD. If it has some fresh air circulating around it and the ability to vent heat away from the HDD it will be fine.

Heat is certainly the enemy of electronic equipment, but this model has a DVR rated drive that's designed to do what it's supposed to do without overheating. Place it in a somewhat open spot somewhere near your TiVo, preferably not on it, and you shouldn’t have any worries with regard to spontaneous combustion.

Try not to over think this too much gentleman; it’s a simple external drive connected to a computer...we’ve been doing this for many, many years.
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Old 11-06-2007, 07:46 PM   #266
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Well, I just wanted to say that I have had an Appian 750gb drive for a long time. I was waiting for the software release to do the plug and play with my S3 internal drive (bought upgraded to 750 gb). I was scared to death to do the remove and boot etc.

When it became clear that I couldn't use the drive on my TivoHD since it was not an approved drive and I couldn't do plug & play S3 with a MyDVR since I had an upgraded internal without doing the marrying manually, it was time to upgrade using the Appian. (I am going to use the MyDVR on the TivoHD or sell it).

Well I hooked up the Appian by USB, disconnected power to all my hard drives in my PC, hooked up removed and hooked up the Tivo internal.

Side Note:Why the internal has that combined data and power connector is beyond me, delayed me needing to get a PC to SATA power connector (of course Radio Shacks don't have electronics anymore )

Checked the partitions to see that sda with "cat /prot/partitions" (more partitions listed) since the two drives were identical.

Did the mfsadd -ex -r 4 /dev/sda/ /dev/sdb with fingers crossed.

Got the message back that drives were married.

Reinstalled the Tivo drive. Connected eSata and turned on power to external.

Replugged the Tivo. After power up messages, it worked and showed the 1898 SD hours, nothing else required.


THANK YOU. THANK YOU. No lost Star Wars Old & New trilogies. No lost classics.

THANK YOU!!!

Last edited by rudolpht : 11-06-2007 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 11-06-2007, 08:48 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams
this model has a DVR rated drive that's designed to do what it's supposed to do without overheating.
I don't think such drive exists.
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Old 11-07-2007, 12:36 AM   #268
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Wondering if a lot of people are having trouple getting the update. Signed up for service two Fridays ago and have twice signed up for the priority list, talked to customer service and frequently manually connected to the TiVo network but am still stuck on version 9.1. Strange thing is, I got the message saying that new TiVo services had been added (including the hard drive expansion), but no new downloads. Anyone know what's up? My DVR Expander just shipped from TiVo and I would love to be able to set it up when it arrives, but with no firmware update, what's a guy to do?
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Old 11-07-2007, 12:51 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3
I don't think such drive exists.
Well, as much as any drive is w/AAM, lower error rate reductions, etc. The point is that there's really nothing unusual about the drive and enclosure or how it should sit on a shelf.
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Old 11-07-2007, 06:34 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams
Thanks very much. A couple more questions (which I'll ask Spike if they're not appropriate here):

Is it reasonable/feasible to upgrade the internal drive prior even to turning on the new Series 3 for the first time, activating it, etc.?

And if so, is it additionally reasonable/feasible to marry an external drive at the same time, i.e. before first powering up the TiVo?

My thought is just that if I have to open up the case anyway I might as well perform both upgrades at the same time, if it's practical.
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