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Old 10-25-2007, 10:10 PM   #121
HDTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selfee
the technical reason that prevents TiVos
They wrote a few lines of code that checks.
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:20 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo
They wrote a few lines of code that checks.
Why, though?

And is there some inherent danger in the procedure George Difranci outlined above?

I know adding an external eSATA drive to an already upgraded S3 didn't work with the kickstart method so I wasn't surprised when the official method didn't support it either. But I figured it was due to some technical reason and how the internal drives were prepared.
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:38 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fofer
is there some inherent danger
I've got a TiVo HD sitting next to me with the cover off that I've tortured in every possible way with MFS. Right now it is running without anything whatsoever plugged into the MBD eSata port. The active drive is just sitting loose on top of the original drive which is still mounted to the bracket. I've had second drives run sitting balanced on top of the back part of the frame.

The only thing I couldn't get it to do was run off a single drive plugged into the MBD eSata port instead of the main port.

I plan to test it with an external RAID (Buffalo - on order) drive connected to the eSata port connected to the MBD main port.

Danger hasn't found me yet.
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Old 10-25-2007, 11:54 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo
They wrote a few lines of code that checks.
I don't think that is quite right.

The impression I got from spike2k5 was as follows: At bootup, the TiVo's eSATA support looks for a certain MFS partition. On unmodified Tivos, that MFS partition is always on the eSATA drive, but once you upgrade the internal drive (which is accomplished by adding new MFS partitions), that particular MFS partition is on the internal drive.

Tivo could have gone out of their way to code eSATA support so it could check for expanded Tivos with extra MFS partitions. But I don't think you can fault them for not doing that.

Last edited by bkdtv : 10-26-2007 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 10-25-2007, 11:57 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
Tivo could have gone out of their way to code eSATA support so it could check for expanded Tivos with extra MFS partitions. But I don't think you can fault them for not doing that.
Nah, but if they had done that, I'd love them a whole lot more, that's for sure.
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Old 10-26-2007, 12:57 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selfee
Does anyone know the technical reason that prevents TiVos with expanded internal drives from using the new external expansion out of the box?

In all other respects, the TiVo seems to treat the expanded drive just like its normal original drive, so it seems odd that the external drive won't pair with an embiggened internal drive.
bkdtv has it right I believe (see above), but Spike's the guy that can give you even more detail if you want it.

Try posting on his MFSLive Forum and see what he has to say.
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:09 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo
Quote:
Originally Posted by selfee
the technical reason that prevents TiVos
They wrote a few lines of code that checks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
I don't think that is quite right.

The impression I got from spike2k5 was as follows: At bootup, the TiVo's eSATA support looks for a certain MFS partition. On unmodified Tivos, that MFS partition is always on the eSATA drive, but once you upgrade the internal drive (which is accomplished by adding new MFS partitions), that particular MFS partition is on the internal drive.

Tivo could have gone out of their way to code eSATA support so it could check for expanded Tivos with extra MFS partitions. But I don't think you can fault them for not doing that.
TiVo didn't write a few lines of code that checks.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:23 AM   #128
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I have tried two drives in my external enclosure and neither worked. Each one was found but instead of saying they were unsupported my TIVOHD came back with a "Can not use drive" message.

Has anyone ran into this? Is there a workaround?

Drives Tested:
Hitachi Deskstart 500GB
WD Caviar RE2 400GB
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:35 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiehl
I have tried two drives in my external enclosure and neither worked. Each one was found but instead of saying they were unsupported my TIVOHD came back with a "Can not use drive" message.

Has anyone ran into this? Is there a workaround?

Drives Tested:
Hitachi Deskstart 500GB
WD Caviar RE2 400GB
It has to be the official Tivo drive. Sorry bro.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:54 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joybob
It has to be the official Tivo drive. Sorry bro.
I have read that it will warn you that your drive is not supported in some cases. What is the difference?
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:11 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiehl
I have read that it will warn you that your drive is not supported in some cases. What is the difference?
It's an issue about support and quality control. More info here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...&&#post5624966
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:14 AM   #132
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The difference is that Tivo designed the S3 and the TivoHD differently (or they programmed them differently). So the S3 will take a UNofficial drive after flashing the warning message while the HD version will NOT use an UNofficial drive. (I am not versed enough to know if there is a techie workaround for the HD or not - I have an S3, luckily)
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:30 AM   #133
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Does anyone have any insight as to when and "if" they will qualify other drives? Or is it safe to assume Tivo will continue to monitor this and upsell drives on their own?
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:35 AM   #134
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I think it's safe to assume that TiVo will continue to monitor and upsell. IMHO.
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Old 10-26-2007, 12:07 PM   #135
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No crow eating needed.. I was hoping for a cheaper solution! I'm undecided on how to proceed. I think my plan for now is to just wait and see what shakes out. I'm undecided on how much hard drive space I want to pay for. On a long ago previous DirecTiVo I had ~ 120 hrs of record time (standard def of course) and I really liked that. 120 hours seemed like an awful lot to me and I liked being able to keep 10-15 movies on there plus my normal network show content. Looks like 500gb + 160gb internal will give ~80hrs of HD record time. I'm not sure if +$100 for 30 more hours equates to an additional $100 of enjoyment.

(I have no issue with non-supported expansion...but if I do end up deciding to buy in at the "500gb" level, I'll probably go with the "official" solution just because it saves me time...)

-Matt

Quote:
Originally Posted by mute
Ok Ok, time for me to eat crow. I got my drive for $260 shipped (saveateagle.com iirc). I don't know why I thought my total out the door cost was so low. I think I was trying to minimize my loss subconsciously or something.

So as mentioned it's 50% more for 50% more. That's still a better deal in my mind considering you can't daisy chain drives, and there's no way to divorce/upgrade without losing your shows.

I still think that a more expensive/larger drive would have been nice. What about those "enthusiasts" that are willing to pay more for the series 3 tivos? They are still roped into the 500gb drive if they care about their warranty.

At this point I'm not sure which route I will take. I am likely to replace my A drive w/ the 750gb, and shelf the enclosure for some other project, or until I run out of space with a 750gb A drive, and pick up another drive for the MX-1.

Seems like if I am going to void my warranty either way, I'd be better off losing 20 hours of HD and keeping the stock drive as a backup than I am marrying it to an external drive.

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Old 10-26-2007, 12:23 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiehl
I have read that it will warn you that your drive is not supported in some cases. What is the difference?
That is for the Series3, not the TivoHD. See the first post of this thread.

The TivoHD and Series3 are two different products.
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Old 10-26-2007, 12:48 PM   #137
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Does anybody have any information as to when TiVo will bless a 750 Gig or 1 Tb eSATA solution similar to the Western Digital 500 Gig eSATA package they have already blessed?

I am anxious to add an eSATA drive to my S3 but I donít want to limit myself to 500 Gig and am unwilling to buy a drive, an enclosure, and an eSATA II cable from three different manufacturers, which TiVo wonít support.
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Old 10-26-2007, 12:56 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat
Does anybody have any information as to when TiVo will bless a 750 Gig or 1 Tb eSATA solution similar to the Western Digital 500 Gig eSATA package they have already blessed?

I am anxious to add an eSATA drive to my S3 but I donít want to limit myself to 500 Gig and am unwilling to buy a drive, an enclosure, and an eSATA II cable from three different manufacturers, which TiVo wonít support.
I wouldn't hold my breath. The odds are that Spike or someone else here will find a work around sooner.

HDTiVo made some pretty good points about "support" on this post.

BTW, there are a number of other "pre-packaged" P&P eSATA drives that you can use with your S3 if you're not in the mood to build one yourself (which is very, very easy IMHO).
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Old 10-26-2007, 01:07 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by gwsat
Does anybody have any information as to when TiVo will bless a 750 Gig or 1 Tb eSATA solution similar to the Western Digital 500 Gig eSATA package they have already blessed?.
It doesn't look good. I asked a press spokesman at Western Digital and they said no 1Tb DVR Expander was planned for this year.

They said we should see something along those lines by this time next year, but they would not be any more specific than that.
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Old 10-26-2007, 01:08 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat
Does anybody have any information as to when TiVo will bless a 750 Gig or 1 Tb eSATA solution similar to the Western Digital 500 Gig eSATA package they have already blessed?

I am anxious to add an eSATA drive to my S3 but I donít want to limit myself to 500 Gig and am unwilling to buy a drive, an enclosure, and an eSATA II cable from three different manufacturers, which TiVo wonít support.
I think the risk of using one of the already tried and tested by this community solutions is next to nil. There's always a chance something will go wrong, but that chance versus the increased space is more than a fair tradeof in my opinion. I've been using a 1TB Hitachi in a Antec enclosure for months now and have not had a single issue.
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Old 10-26-2007, 01:22 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenanSR
I think the risk of using one of the already tried and tested by this community solutions is next to nil.
Personally I feel better with certain non-WD products.
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Old 10-26-2007, 01:47 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenanSR
I think the risk of using one of the already tried and tested by this community solutions is next to nil. There's always a chance something will go wrong, but that chance versus the increased space is more than a fair tradeof in my opinion. I've been using a 1TB Hitachi in a Antec enclosure for months now and have not had a single issue.
THis is probably the solution I am giong to go with as well. Anyone know of a good price on the Hitachi drive? :-)
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Old 10-26-2007, 02:44 PM   #143
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Noise

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZrob
So does that mean that after all is said and done, the combination of Tivo and expansion drive is as loud as having 2 Tivos? My wife is very sensitive to that disk-rumbling sound.
Speaking specifically to the AnteK MX-1, I find the platter noise undetectable, although if it is close to the individual in an otherwise quiet room, it might be detectable. It has sound dampening feet to reduce transmission of vibrations to the surface on which it sits, but if the shelf on which it (or the TiVo) rests is acting as a sounding board, try sitting the unit on a cloth. Otherwise, the only noise I can ordinarily hear from the Seagate Barracuda (reportedly a fairly noisy drive) in the Antek housing is seek noise. The unit only does much in the way of significantly long seeks if one is accessing the database a lot by looking up titles, wishlists, etc. At six feet, I am unable to detect any noise at all coming from the Antek MX-1 housing whihc contains the Hitachi 1T drive.

Speaking in general, hearing is not linear, so it takes much more than twice the amount of noise for something to sound twice as loud. In fact, a psychoacoustic doubling of the sound level requires ten times the energy (or in this case ten times the number of sources or ten TiVos) to sound twice as loud. Directionality aside, most people cannot tell the difference between a single souce of sound and two identical sound sources. Of course in your case, the external drive may not make any more noise than the TiVo, but it does make a different noise, so the result won't be noticably louder but it may be qualitatively different.
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Old 10-26-2007, 04:06 PM   #144
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Hitachi Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by keenanSR
I think the risk of using one of the already tried and tested by this community solutions is next to nil. There's always a chance something will go wrong, but that chance versus the increased space is more than a fair tradeof in my opinion. I've been using a 1TB Hitachi in a Antec enclosure for months now and have not had a single issue.
I second that. One of my Series III TiVos has 2 of the Hitachi 1TB drives, 1 ineternal and 1 e-SATA. Outside of some minor issues caused by a flaky e-SATA cable, the duet has been functioning flawlessly since June.

My only complaints are that even 2TB is too small for my needs, and the fact I wish TiVo would allow the units to employ a smaller font in 1080i resolution so I coud have more titles on the screen at once. It takes forever to scroll through the titles with the relative handful currently supported by the TiVo on the screen.
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:09 PM   #145
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Thanks to all for your feedback concerning whether TiVo is likely to bless a 750 Gig or 1 Tb eSATA solution for the S3 in the near future. My hesitance to buy different brands of hard drive, enclosure, and cable does not stem from any fear that it wouldnít work. Thanks to bkdtvís wonderful FAQ, I am confident that one of the Seagate DB35 drives, an Antec enclosure, and an SIIG cable would work well with my S3. But I am a cheapskate, so it looks as if I would need to use multiple vendors to get the absolute best price. Another negative is that the 1 Tb Seagate DB 35, although itís been announced, is apparently not going to be shipping until after the first of the year.

Can somebody make a recommendation as to where I might buy from a single vendor, at a reasonable price, an acceptable 1 Tb drive, an Antec Mx-1 enclosure, and an SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 cable? It appears that even Amazon canít fill the bill right now. Thanks again!
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:36 PM   #146
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I just bought the WD WD10EACS from FuturePowerPC.com for $291 which includes shipping and tax (exept for NYC) So this less that the recent BB price of $280 plus tax.

I also found the SIIG Sata cable at Buy.com for $8.99 plus tax and shipping. I bought the Antec MX1 from Circuit City for $39.99. Yes I know it 3 different vendors but the best prices today.
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Old 10-27-2007, 10:34 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenanSR
I think the risk of using one of the already tried and tested by this community solutions is next to nil. There's always a chance something will go wrong, but that chance versus the increased space is more than a fair tradeof in my opinion. I've been using a 1TB Hitachi in a Antec enclosure for months now and have not had a single issue.
I will also affirm that. With Season Premiers, it is hard to capture it all on smaller storage units. NOWPLAYINGLIST shows my space is filled and older stuff is 'evaporating' so I guess I did/do need the space.

I went with the Seagate Free Agent Pro (FAP) 750gig and after the initial "cable" issue, I've not had any problems. Including moving the entire setup from an outside shelf to an enclosed armoire across the room and pulling wires under a floor. Powered off the Tivo, powered off the FAP, moved stuff, powered on the fap, then the tivo and all my stuff was still there. Been running fine for months now.
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:00 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supie
I just bought the WD WD10EACS from FuturePowerPC.com for $291 which includes shipping and tax (exept for NYC) So this less that the recent BB price of $280 plus tax.

I also found the SIIG Sata cable at Buy.com for $8.99 plus tax and shipping. I bought the Antec MX1 from Circuit City for $39.99. Yes I know it 3 different vendors but the best prices today.
I am checking CC.com and the Antec is 59 bucks. Is there a special link or code maybe to get the 39 deal? I am probably going to go with the system you outlined above.

Anyone see any better prices on a good 1 TB drive?
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:30 PM   #149
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I have a question about what the best solution would be for my situation.

I purchased the S3 when it first came out and upgraded the internal drive to 500 GB. I would like to add some more space but now I can't decide what would be the best and cheapest way to do it. Here are my options.

1) Buy the $199 supported ESATA My DVR Expander and use WinMFS to add it.
2) Get an MX-1 and some other Drive and Use WinMFS to add it.
3) Replace the original Drive in the S3 then either do 1 or 2 without having to use WinMFS.

I have searched around for the cheapest prices and I can get the MX-1 for $50 then the ESATA cable is $10 and the cheapest 750 GB DVR certified drive I can find is over $200. Even buying a certified 500 GB drive and the MX-1 and Cable separately seems to be a little over $200 so am I correct that the $199 drive TiVo is now selling is the cheapest way to add 500 GB?

If anyone else has any place to get one of the supported drives for really cheap please post a link. Thanks.

-Joe

P.S. Another option I have thought of is to get one of the really cheap large 1gb storage drives for the PC and use TiVo Desktop to transfer the shows to the computer and store shows on the computer then delete them on the S3 and restore them later on when I am ready to watch them. Like for shows that I don't have time to watch now but plan to watch later during breaks or between seasons. What are peoples thoughts on that?

Last edited by jrock : 10-27-2007 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 10-27-2007, 08:32 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock
I have a question about what the best solution would be for my situation.

I purchased the S3 when it first came out and upgraded the internal drive to 500 GB. I would like to add some more space but now I can't decide what would be the best and cheapest way to do it. Here are my options.

1) Buy the $199 supported ESATA My DVR Expander and use WinMFS to add it.
2) Get an MX-1 and some other Drive and Use WinMFS to add it.
3) Replace the original Drive in the S3 then either do 1 or 2 without having to use WinMFS.

I have searched around for the cheapest prices and I can get the MX-1 for $50 then the ESATA cable is $10 and the cheapest 750 GB DVR certified drive I can find is over $200. Even buying a certified 500 GB drive and the MX-1 and Cable separately seems to be a little over $200 so am I correct that the $199 drive TiVo is now selling is the cheapest way to add 500 GB?

If anyone else has any place to get one of the supported drives for really cheap please post a link. Thanks.

-Joe

P.S. Another option I have thought of is to get one of the really cheap large 1gb storage drives for the PC and use TiVo Desktop to transfer the shows to the computer and store shows on the computer then delete them on the S3 and restore them later on when I am ready to watch them. Like for shows that I don't have time to watch now but plan to watch later during breaks or between seasons. What are peoples thoughts on that?
If someone could write a 3rd party app to transfer shows to a PC then delete them off the S3 then we could just use multi-terabyte RAID solutions instead of fooling with external drives.
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