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Old 10-26-2007, 02:15 AM   #361
jmpage2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
Any Directshow-capable player in Windows should do it.
Media Player Classic and the other players I've tried can't seem to pull it off. I'm going to install Tivo Desktop and WMP11 on my Windows XP Professional work laptop to see what kind of results I get there. Will report back in a bit.
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Old 10-26-2007, 02:21 AM   #362
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Well, at least I'm not losing my mind. I have just installed WMP11 on my XP Professional Laptop along with a fresh install of Tivo Desktop 2.5.1.

Took one of the Tivo files that's on my desktop and moved it over to the laptop with a flash drive.

Guess what? It has the exact same problem playing back on the XP machine that I was seeing on the Vista box. Thank God I didn't re-install windows over this issue. Also worth noting is that the laptop is using completely different codecs than the desktop, and yet the problem is manifesting in the same way.

Now the only question is, is the problem in the Tivo Desktop software, or in the Tivo HD itself?

I'm doing a fresh download of a known "problem" recording from the Tivo HD to see if that exhibits the problem too.

Another possibility is that these problems are being caused by recordings made BEFORE the Tivo updated to 9.2. Will investigate that more also.
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Old 10-26-2007, 09:34 AM   #363
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I have 9.1, and now Tivo Desktop 2.5.1, and VideoReDo. In transferring an HD Tivo file to my PC, editing it with VRD, and saving as HD .mpg file when I put it back on the Tivo it has odd jumps & skips, i.e. missing video frames, though the audio always remains in sync.

I have not tried (yet) saving from VRD as a .tivo file but will try that next--apparently VRD uses Tivos own .tivo directshow filters to function.

But there's something about the HD .mpg files that Tivo doesn't like--maybe the non-standard GOPS? I suppose I could also have VRD fix the GOPS. The VRD developer is getting a Tivo HD, which if history holds true means they will get this sorted-out for sure.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:13 AM   #364
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just set up ttg for my series 3 HD. after a little trouble getting it to show the programs available for transfer, it did. kind of. i have 105 programs. it lists the last 4 (including one being recorded right now and shows the others as "details unavailable". thoughts.

also. i see a lot of talk about getting the 9.2 update. there's no way to "get" it, is there? it just comes from tivo when it comes, right?
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:20 AM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbp4th
it lists the last 4 (including one being recorded right now and shows the others as "details unavailable". thoughts.
The "details unavailable" thing is usually a cache problem. Shut down TiVo Desktop and then delete all the files under C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\Local Settings\Application Data\TiVo Desktop\cache.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbp4th
also. i see a lot of talk about getting the 9.2 update. there's no way to "get" it, is there? it just comes from tivo when it comes, right?
You can sign up on the priority list.
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Old 10-26-2007, 11:04 AM   #366
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thanks windracer. that did seem to get more details (i now show 30-35 of the 105 programs), but i still can't see them all. I went into server-->tivo server properties-->performance and maxed out the cache size, too. but that didn't seem to get it done either.
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Old 10-27-2007, 09:14 AM   #367
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What's with the inordinate amount of shows that are flagged and not able to be transferred? For instance, Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO and many movies from HBO and Encore. What gives? TTG is great and all, but not if I can't use it!
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Old 10-27-2007, 09:18 AM   #368
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Complain to your cable provider... We're pretty much at their mercy, outside the local networks. But I can't see getting upset about anything on a premium channel like HBO being copy-protected.

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Old 10-27-2007, 09:41 AM   #369
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Weird Problem - Art Wolf - Travels to the Edge

I'm having a strange problem (which may be the same problem HDTiVo mentioned earlier). I can transfer some HD programs from my S3 to my PC, but these half-hour HD programs off PBS are not working. When I initiate the transfer (either from TiVo Desktop 2.3a or using the direct download from the web browser) I get a 2MB file with (from what I can tell) no content. Does anyone know what might be going on?

Last edited by bicker : 10-27-2007 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 10-27-2007, 09:51 AM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldudek
If your cable company is doing that, that is illeagal.
If the recordings are off broadcast networks. The cable company can legally protect anything else they'd like, unless prohibited by an agreement with the content provider.
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Old 10-27-2007, 10:55 AM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReidWings
What's with the inordinate amount of shows that are flagged and not able to be transferred? For instance, Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO and many movies from HBO and Encore. What gives? TTG is great and all, but not if I can't use it!
The cable providers mark content on some channels with a copy protection code called "Copy One Generation"; it allows you to hold only a single copy of the broadcast, being the one on the DVR. TTG and MRV need to make a second copy, so they don't work with Copy One Generation content. There's a discussion of this in the Copy Protection Affecting TTG thread.

FCC regulations allow the cable providers to mark anything not in their core basic tier with that level of protection; other regulations require that they position all rebroadcasts of local television in that tier, so they can't apply copy protection to the national networks like ABC, CBS and NBC. Though the cable companies have been a bit too liberal in their use of Copy One Generation, premium service providers like HBO/Cinemax and Starz!/Encore explicitly want their content marked this way. You're free to complain to your cable company but it's unlikely to change that.

The licensing for the protocols used to deliver the content to TiVo (DFAST and CableCARD Host Interface) allow the implementation of a "move" operation for Copy One Generation content which would make a copy, deleting the original recording when done. TiVo doesn't currently implement this.
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Old 10-27-2007, 12:05 PM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker
I'm having a strange problem (which may be the same problem HDTiVo mentioned earlier). I can transfer some HD programs from my S3 to my PC, but these half-hour HD programs off PBS are not working. When I initiate the transfer (either from TiVo Desktop 2.3a or using the direct download from the web browser) I get a 2MB file with (from what I can tell) no content. Does anyone know what might be going on?
That does sound like the exact same problem - particularly because we both are seeing it on PBS HD recordings. Unfortunately, I only have those 'The War' recordings available to test. I should try some others on both my HD and S3 units.

Do you have a second hi def unit to test MRV on? I found MRV worked fine. I also found that TTG didn't work on the program after it successfully MRV'd either.
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Old 10-27-2007, 12:07 PM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker
I'm having a strange problem (which may be the same problem HDTiVo mentioned earlier). I can transfer some HD programs from my S3 to my PC, but these half-hour HD programs off PBS are not working. When I initiate the transfer (either from TiVo Desktop 2.3a or using the direct download from the web browser) I get a 2MB file with (from what I can tell) no content. Does anyone know what might be going on?
You have 9.2 on your Tivo, right?

Some files wouldn't transfer for me with 9.1, but do transfer with 9.2.
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Old 10-27-2007, 12:14 PM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
ook one of the Tivo files that's on my desktop and moved it over to the laptop with a flash drive.

Guess what? It has the exact same problem playing back on the XP machine that I was seeing on the Vista box. Thank God I didn't re-install windows over this issue. Also worth noting is that the laptop is using completely different codecs than the desktop, and yet the problem is manifesting in the same way.

Now the only question is, is the problem in the Tivo Desktop software, or in the Tivo HD itself?
The Tivo just copies the original digital recording from your Tivo.

These days, the encoders used by broadcasters and cable providers employ many 'tricks' to increase compression and improve efficiency. Many codecs on the PC simply cannot handle all of these. I do not like the MainConcept codec because it known not to correctly handle many high-definition transport streams. I much prefer the hardware-accelerated Cyberlink codec.

MPG and .Tivo files may be set to use different video codecs -- depending on your PC's setup -- which adds to the confusion.
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Old 10-27-2007, 01:56 PM   #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
You have 9.2 on your Tivo, right?

Some files wouldn't transfer for me with 9.1, but do transfer with 9.2.
In my case I have 9.2 on the HD the recording was made; but of course not when the recording was made. hmmmmm....


The other recordings I successfully TTG'd were more recent ones.

Last edited by HDTiVo : 10-28-2007 at 02:50 AM.
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Old 10-27-2007, 03:55 PM   #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo
Do you have a second hi def unit to test MRV on?
No, just the one S3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
You have 9.2 on your Tivo, right?
Yes, that's correct.
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Old 10-28-2007, 12:58 AM   #377
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Slooooow

Is it normal for TTG transfers (well, downloading via https://...) to go at about 1MB/s? That's pretty darned slow. At that rate, a standard HD 1 hour program would take over 1.5 hours to transfer. This is on a S3 Tivo, not a TivoHD.

What kind of transfer rate are other folks seeing?

*edit* Oops, I forgot to mention that I'm connected via Ethernet (100baseTx-FD).

I realize there are a limited number of resources on this thing, but 1MB/s? I guess with two buffers writing to the disk at the same time, I'm lucky to get 1MB/s. Too bad there's no way to tell it to stop recording the live buffers. I'll try changing both tuners to SD channels to see if that helps.

Last edited by jkc120 : 10-28-2007 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 10-28-2007, 01:24 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by jkc120
Is it normal for TTG transfers (well, downloading via https://...) to go at about 1MB/s? That's pretty darned slow. At that rate, a standard HD 1 hour program would take over 1.5 hours to transfer. This is on a S3 Tivo, not a TivoHD.

What kind of transfer rate are other folks seeing?

*edit* Oops, I forgot to mention that I'm connected via Ethernet (100baseTx-FD).

I realize there are a limited number of resources on this thing, but 1MB/s? I guess with two buffers writing to the disk at the same time, I'm lucky to get 1MB/s. Too bad there's no way to tell it to stop recording the live buffers. I'll try changing both tuners to SD channels to see if that helps.
Yes, maximum TTG throughput on the Series3 is 15-17Mbps. You'll see different results with:
  1. both tuners set to channels you do not receive (i.e. no buffers);
  2. both tuners set to low-bitrate SD channels like SCI-FI and CNN; and
  3. both tuners set to higher-bitrate channels like CBS-HD and NBC-HD while watching a previous recording from CBS-HD.
This is summarized in the sticky at the top of the forum.
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Old 10-28-2007, 02:49 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by HDTiVo
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
You have 9.2 on your Tivo, right?

Some files wouldn't transfer for me with 9.1, but do transfer with 9.2.
In my case I have 9.2 on the HD the recording was made; but of course not when the recording was made. hmmmmm....


The other recordings I successfully TTG'd were more recent ones.
I TTG'd a recording I made from ABC HD under 9.1. While it did transfer - unlike those PBS HD recordings - it did not play in WMP. WMP said it was playing, but there was a black screen and no active progress bar...

I ran it through VideoRedo and played the mpg just fine in WMP.

The difference I observed is that WMP says it is attempting to download codec, then download codec failed, just before successfully playing the mpg (also other successful HD .tivo files do that) For this unplayable .tivo, there is no codec attempt.

WMP 10.00 Windows XP SP2
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Old 10-28-2007, 07:01 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by jmpage2
Another possibility is that these problems are being caused by recordings made BEFORE the Tivo updated to 9.2. Will investigate that more also.
That is not the case from what I can see. I cannot transfer Travels to the Edge from 10/26 (again, this is TTG, not MRV).
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Old 10-28-2007, 08:05 AM   #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
95% of my programs play back with absolutely no issues either. What would be helpful at this point is if someone with Windows Vista and WMP11 could record an episode of Star Trek from TV Land, transfer it from Tivo HD to their desktop and confirm whether or not it plays back correctly.

The problem does not appear to be random, it only affects specific programs from certain channels, such as the one indicated above.

When I tried to play the same "problem child" file in VideoRedo it comes up with an error saying "stream failure, please consider stream conversion" or something to that affect.
It sounds like I ran into a similar problem to this in my last post. I did find I could fix it by running through VR. Also, note the failed attempts of WMP 10 to download codec when playback works vs. no attempt when playback doesn't work.

Haven't tried more post 9.2 recordings to see if I trip up on any of those. I need to record something new off PBS HD too.

Between bicker, jmpage and myself we are describing two things which might be related:

1. Failure to fully download recording (TTG). Generally stops within 10MB. MRV to another TiVo seems to work.

2. Failure of fully downloaded recording (TTG) to play on PC (WMP only?) Processing such recording to mpg via VideoRedo results in playable file.

Plus, 3. Fully downloaded .tivo plays, but not smoothly at times. Conversion to mpg via VideoRedo fixes problem. Possibility that TiVo DRM filter gets in the way of smooth HD playback?
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Old 10-28-2007, 12:15 PM   #382
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I've downloaded the trial of VideoReDo TV Suite. It's a very nice program, it only misses some short commercials, which I expected. Very nice.
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Old 10-28-2007, 03:09 PM   #383
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Pleasantly surprised here.

I had identical results with these two transfers, one wireless (via TiVo branded wifi adapter) and one wired (all over the same home network). I figured the wifi would be slower.

First was MRV transfer from S2A to S3A, simultaneous with an MRV from S2B to S3B (I have 3 S3's and 2 S2's).
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Old 10-28-2007, 04:26 PM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
Yes, maximum TTG throughput on the Series3 is 15-17Mbps. You'll see different results with:
  1. both tuners set to channels you do not receive (i.e. no buffers);
  2. both tuners set to low-bitrate SD channels like SCI-FI and CNN; and
  3. both tuners set to higher-bitrate channels like CBS-HD and NBC-HD while watching a previous recording from CBS-HD.
This is summarized in the sticky at the top of the forum.
Can someone explain exactly why we have to go through such contortions to transfer files efficiently? Shouldn't the system just prompt me for that and/or do it automatically if I am not watching live TV?

Brad
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Old 10-28-2007, 04:48 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by andrews777
Can someone explain exactly why we have to go through such contortions to transfer files efficiently? Shouldn't the system just prompt me for that and/or do it automatically if I am not watching live TV?

Brad
No is your answer.

The throttling is specifically so the performance of whatever you're recording/viewing is NOT degraded. For obvious reasons, transfer speeds are lower priority than playing/recording.

The CPU in these things is not that beefy, and the memory pretty minimal.
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Old 10-28-2007, 04:49 PM   #386
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And also, of course, with live TV playing you are always BOTH viewing a recording (the live buffer) AND recording.
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Old 10-28-2007, 06:20 PM   #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeSoFar
No is your answer.

The throttling is specifically so the performance of whatever you're recording/viewing is NOT degraded. For obvious reasons, transfer speeds are lower priority than playing/recording.

The CPU in these things is not that beefy, and the memory pretty minimal.
I know the reasons why, but why can't I override that recording. I have many hours in the day where I am not watching and I would prefer a much faster transfer time over recording live TV.

Brad
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Old 10-28-2007, 06:32 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by andrews777
I know the reasons why, but why can't I override that recording. I have many hours in the day where I am not watching and I would prefer a much faster transfer time over recording live TV.

Brad
You know the reasons, but you're not admitting they exist?

TiVo defaults to showing live TV. Live TV means both playing and recording. And there's no setting to change that behavior, no.

Why? Because they wrote the software that way.
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Old 10-28-2007, 06:43 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by andrews777
I know the reasons why, but why can't I override that recording. I have many hours in the day where I am not watching and I would prefer a much faster transfer time over recording live TV.
I'm with you on this.

Most people may be happy with the standard offering but I have been spoiled by some of the PC-based software that allows quite a bit of user customization. Maybe Tivo should offer some "Tivo Pro" software that would allow user modifiable settings -- set a different-sized buffer, turn off buffering between certain hours (1AM-6AM, e.g.). If the hardware in the Series 3 and the THD allowed it I would like to be able to transcode HD recordings to lower bit rates to save space, sort of like the quality settings on the analog Tivos.
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Old 10-28-2007, 06:51 PM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews777
I know the reasons why, but why can't I override that recording. I have many hours in the day where I am not watching and I would prefer a much faster transfer time over recording live TV.

Brad
There IS a setting to override this.

It's STANDBY.

If the S3 you are MRVing or TTGing FROM is in standby, no tuners or buffers will be active.
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